Abortion statistic that is disturbing..
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Topic: Abortion statistic that is disturbing..
Posted By: Kristofer
Subject: Abortion statistic that is disturbing..
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 6:15am
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6574873.stm - From BBC.
Now I didnt realize the babies would be alive like that after the abortion. To me that changes my entire view of abortion. |
Replies:
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 7:17am
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I'm still pro-choice.
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Posted By: travis75
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 7:30am
------------- Hey MPAA, Guess what? 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0! |
High Voltage wrote:Posted By: c4cypher
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 7:38am
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 7:43am
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And they're off! |
Posted By: Funky
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 8:26am
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Those poor stem cells... ------------- 
"Don't you hate pants?" |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 8:38am
Because killing babies is fun. Even if they don't die immediately. ------------- 
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 10:23am
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Still pro-choice.
Also, notice, study was performed only about abortions that took place because of defects, which was a fraction of all. |
Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 10:29am
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I'm against abortion. At least put the kids up for adoption. If you think you're mature enough to be having sex, I think you should be able to go through 9 months of pregnancy. Of course I understand that a small percentage of pregnancies are from rape...then what do you do???  ------------- 
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 11:46am
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Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 11:51am
Then I guess they shouldn't be having unprotected sex. As far as the 'defective' fetuses, I think it depends on how severe. If the child is gonna be suffering its whole life, then I would agree to have the abortion I suppose. But if it can be treated successfully then do it. -------------
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Posted By: ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 11:54am
Couldn't have stated my views any better. I totally agree. ------------- 
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 11:54am
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Many pregnancies result from "protected" sex... And most women that have difficult pregnancies aren't in some special category - they just are having a difficult pregnancy. By this logic, nobody should ever have sex. At least not heterosexuals. Yay for gay sex! No chance of abortions! |
Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:06pm
Again, I can understand in the pregnancy can effect the health of the mother, but if its just going to be difficult, then suck it up. People have sex knowing full well what can possibly happen. Its called growing up and being responsible for your actions. Quit being selfish and at least have the baby and then put it up for adoption. I understand there are always special circumstances and what not, but it there seems to be a large number of people having abortions just because they don't want the child. -------------
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:08pm
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Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:10pm
I guess I just think that killing a baby because you don't want it is wrong. -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:13pm
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"Difficult" is medical code for "dangerous". All pregnancies are difficult, as you and I use that word. When your OB says your pregnancy will be difficult, you should worry.
True - but can I then extrapolate a full exception for rape?
As Hades likes to point out - how is having an abortion NOT being responsible? An abortion is a difficult decision, and requires actual affirmative action. The lazy and irresponsible action is to do nothing, like these idiot girls that dress to hide their pregnancy and avoid telling their parents, somehow thinking that it is just going to go away, and taking to steps to protect the health of the child. THAT is being immature and irresponsible. An abortion may be disagreeable to many, but it is certainly not irresponsible.
Hard to disagree with that. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:17pm
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If this concerns you, just think about what will happen to both the expecting mother and fetus(s) when the procedure is illegal and people that have absolutely no clue what they are doing attempt to preform abortions.
Making the procedure illegal is going to do a lot more harm to both. Maybe a more perfected procedure is needed as opposed to a ban. |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:19pm
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How long until this one hits 5 pages? I give it a few hours.
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 12:21pm
isn't that the whole point? |
Posted By: ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 2:08pm
Yeah, no one except the baby. Not to mention, if I were to go out and kill a pregnant mother, I would be charged with two accounts of murder. Yet having an abortion is legal, and it is not charged as murder. How does that work? -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 2:14pm
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And thus the efforts of anti-choice advocates are paying off. Those laws, almost universally, are there because pro-lifers have pushed for the changes, specifically to make people ask the question that you just did. I guess it worked. Bootstrapping FTW. |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 2:29pm
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Here's how I see it. Within the first 1/3 of pregnancy, the mother had better decide what to do with the baby. Abort or keep going. I figure 3 months is long enough to find out if you want a child or not and if circumstances allow for it. Until then, the fetus doesn't count as a life, just a part of the woman (or really sick and twisted male). The moment the pregnant woman declares that she wants to keep the child, she signs a contract declaring that a baby will be born unless under the following circumstances. The only time after 3 months (or mother's declaration) in which an abortion will be legal is if the fetus develops life-threatening/hindering problems for either itself or the mother. Regardless of the situation, a fetus is regarded as life in other matters such as murder. Basically it's pro-choice, but it's under the idea that a decision about it can be made within 3 months and that all decisions after that should be concerned with safety for both the mother and fetus. I'm pretty sure this is similar to how the laws are now. And if that's the case, fine. ------------- 
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Posted By: Snipa69
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 2:41pm
That's absolutely correct. Go ahead and make it Illegal so that you can then start threads about the mortality rate and disfigurement rate of both the fetus as well as the mothers who attempted to abort it during an illegal procedure. ------------- http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/857/sig9ac6cs1mj.jpg - |
Posted By: 636andy636.
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:02pm
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If my girl ever gets an abortion. I'm stomping on the fetus when they get it out to make sure its not living.
------------- [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/anthonymartinez/402cdjo-1.gif"> |
Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:04pm
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^^^ Oh I get it. Its funny because it is shocking. Cute. -------------
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:05pm
And what about the people that dont find out they are pregnant till after 3 months? It is like there are bells, sirens, and whistles that go of inside a woman alerting her she is pregnant. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:10pm
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Well, yes, there are. From what I've seen, most of the time when somebody suddenly "discovers" that they are 4 months pregnant, there is some serious denial underway. But I frankly think that is almost irrelevant. At some point the fetus acquires sufficient moral weight to where abortion must meet a higher requirement standard. Whether that is 3 months or not, I don't know. |
Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:17pm
Its called their period. When they don't have it, thats a sign, and whether or not they are pregnant, they should still see a doctor to figure out whats wrong. -------------
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:18pm
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I guess I should be more specific. While there are indications that a woman is pregnant, no all women that become so are aware of what to look for. I agree that in some cases denial is a factor but not all.
For instance a female that is having "unprotected sex" on a regular basis, and has a history of an irregular menstrual cycle, may not even consider taking a pregnacy test till after the third month. Or teenage girls that are having sex before their first menstrual cycle and because of the lack of education, do not recognize that they are indeed pregnant. Not every girl has access to a doctor, every time they miss there period. A three month break in a cycle is not as uncommon as one would think. I think it is hard for a male to judge a female's perspective since there is no way for one to experience the other. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:24pm
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Also where does it say that if you miss your menstrual cycle, you must see a doctor within two months or you will not be allowed an abortion.
I think that would be ridiculous to say to someone. Oh and since it would have to be a law, who is going to pay for the doctor visits or all the PT tests? I think that overall state sponsored abortions would be much cheaper then paying for missed period doctor visits and tests. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:27pm
Sure there can be a point where a higher moral standard could be required but to "all out ban" the proceedure after a certain stage is ridiculous. What would be the "higher moral standard" be? I cant think of one that could be fairly applied across the board. |
Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:30pm
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Guess I missed the first part of the discussion, but there's a large gray area when it comes to abortion. Saying that teenagers know full well what the possibilites of having sex are, and that a baby is possible, and that they should go through with the pregnancy can have some serious ramificatinos. Say the mother kicks the daughter out, or won't support her. The father is at least a high school student, it not about to go to college, or a drop out. Is going through with the pregnancy worth making the child's life a living hell as a teenage mother tries to raise it, the father has to get a job, possible wrecking his school life, the mother's life, and making the child's a living hell? Hypothetical, yes, but a definite possibility. Abortion is definitely a situational issue, which is why I've always been pro-choice. |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:42pm
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I'll restate. All living things are "moral objects" - i.e., we, as "moral actors", have some level of moral obligation to all living things. But not all moral objects are equal - you or I carry more moral weight than a monkey, which carries more moral weight than a cat, which carries more moral weight than a cockroach. We owe some moral duty to all of those, but the amount of moral duty varies. A fetus is also, or at least at some point becomes, a moral object, and, I would argue, a moral object of increasing weight until birth. The greater the moral weight of a moral object, the greater moral duty we owe to that moral object. Therefore, we owe an increasing moral duty to an embryo/fetus/child. The greater the moral duty, the fewer the circumstances underwhich we can do harm to the moral object (fetus). Therefore, the morally allowable circumstances for an abortion continuously shrink during pregnancy. |
Posted By: Jack Carver
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:43pm
many meaning... percentage-wise? or numbers-wise? or what? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:44pm
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Numbers-wise - as in "many (more than a few) pregnant women were using some form of birth control". |
Posted By: Jack Carver
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 3:56pm
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It would be interesting to see how the numbers would compare to those or raped women who become pregnant. I'm also curious about this bit:
Why does a fetus have increasing worth till birth, but then stop? Just because it is dependent on the mother? Do old people in nursing homes also have less worth? |
Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 4:17pm
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No, no - upon birth, the fetus becomes a child, and has the moral weight of an infant. It doesn't suddenly go to zero moral weight. As to the relative moral weight of an old person versus a younger person - tricky question. Those are the things that keep moral philosophers up at night... :) |
Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 4:37pm
You could aways just not think about things like that. -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 4:42pm
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The answer to elective abortion is pretty simple, a little moral trait we seem to have forgotten, in our race to no rules. The simple ability to say "no" and have the initial personal responsibility for your own body.
And I do believe that each and every young mother having elective (for non-medical reasons) abortions should be required to watch a video of the procedure, unedited, and true, and to view a sonogram of the fetus inside of her, and then let her make the moral decesion. As for the partial birth abortion ban, again watch the procedure and watch the fetus, the facial expressions, and watch the poor innocent move and struggle just before the surgical scissors are forced into the base of the skull, and its brain is sucked out, and tell me that that life is less of a human being if only by legal decree. But we will never see that video on Discovery Channel will we. Capital punishment for a convicted criminal is cruel and inhuman even when society decrees, but partial birth abortions are not cruel and inhuman. I need to know which human race we belong to. ------------- 
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 4:44pm
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I would dare say that the majority of the pro-choice people tend to not support partial-birth abortion.
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Posted By: ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 6:35pm
Agreed. If abortion can never be banned, which in all honesty I don't think it ever will be, I think this needs to be put into effect at the least. -------------
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 7:02pm
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Are you going to make me watch a slaughterhouse video before I can order a steak, too? Boo on emotional arguments. |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 7:09pm
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Abortion is an emotional issue. There is documented evidense of physcological issues with younger mothers who electively abort. There may even be a slight guilt issue. So unless you are emotionally attached to that cow, no you need not watch a slaughterhouse video. -------------
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Posted By: ekeboo
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:35am
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I think its wrong. sorry but if your having sex. then you should be willing to take care of a baby or at least put it up for adoption. Killing babies isn't cool. ohh and its alive from conception in my view. Rape is another issue.
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:57am
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Well, my biggest "thing" with this is more of a political standpoint. This is a personal choice, that affects a specific group (namely the woman and her family). Does the government have a right to deny us the choice? At this point, the whole murder argument would come in. This is a touchy point, as some consider it murder, others do not. I personally believe "murder" is the deliberate killing of another being capable of thought, feeling and emotion. When does the clump of developing organs become "alive?" I dunno, but I believe that should be the cut-off point. Anything past that probably could be considered murder, but anything before is more or less a medical procedure. ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: Glassjaw
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 1:02am
I wouldn't mind having another stem cell, I mean who wants to have diabetes. 
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Posted By: prolitesniper
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 1:40am
agreed, but dont make them us, just the shell of us, anyways, partial birth aborsions are when the suck the brains out of the baby when the head is sticking out so they live an die, but im prochoice, i have friends on both sides of the fence here ------------- Tippmann A5 RT 16in J&J Ceramic 14in linear smartparts New BT Apex Barrel 45ci 3000psi Nitro System blade trigger 4+1pack |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 2:03am
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look, everyone has there own opinion your not going to convince ANY one by trying to state your ideas or opinions on a forum, the arguing is just going to go around in circles, and people become more and more aragont to portect what they belive, just stay out of these arguments. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 2:15am
| You're right, stay out of these pointless and stupid debates that get no where! Instead you should spend your time bashing people for their immature obsession with fire and/or talk about what fun stuff you did on 4/20! |
Posted By: Slothbutt
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 2:28am
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I'm all for abortion, heck, I think we should be able to kill them off up until age 2. ------------- http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2688/3guns27ef.jpg - My Paintball Guns http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2711/arand9mmak9.jpg - New "Toys" |
Posted By: Glassjaw
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 2:30am
I agree! I mean, a forum isn't for discussing things! ... ...  ------------- |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 4:20am
ya, a discusion that has happend many times before on the forum, they turn into arguments, and people and more and more aragont to other peopls opionions and blatenly simplify everything to a stupid level, just to try to humiluate eachother. ya, a great disscusion ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 7:28am
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Posted By: Clark Kent
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 9:14am
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So killing babies is ok in the case of rape? And my appendix is also alive - should I not be able to have an appendectomy? |
Posted By: little devil
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 9:55am
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i've had 2 friends do either, both age 16-18. for me its not a point of killing a person or baby, its the life the baby will get to have after its been born. most you probably think hey if the kids not going to get a good life you put it up for adoption right?, well no, thats not what either of my friends were thinking. they had a mind set of that being there baby, thier life and whatnot. they will deal with it. cause if the child is going to be raised off of parents working a 10-15 dollar job at a grocery store without any benefits, how good of a life will the kid get? whats better? to kill a fetus or grow up in a life of poverty where its almost certain both your rents will split up and go there either ways |
Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 10:50am
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I straight up like killing babies. But on a serious note if you want to look at it from a medical view the unborn fetus is considered a parasite until it is completely seperated from the mother. ------------- Gamertag: Kataklysm999 
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Posted By: BearClaw
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 11:35am
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IM anti choich but im not gona even try conviing anyone here as it aint
worth it. Ill just do my part voteing either way when the time
comes. oh and for all you pro choich guys why not make suicide leagal too then it only affects one party and most suicide people have miserable lives too why should they have to live em right. ------------- AGD 68 Automag Azodin KPII Sheridan PGP2K Tippmann Crossover XVR Tippmann ProCarbine Tippmann SL68-II Tippmann TiPX |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:09pm
Suicide affects many lives. Even one person's depression gets other people to feel the same way. The depression that a suicidal person has is temporary and reversal. The person is also a fully developed human. Abortion only affects the mother. Until the fetus can sustain itself outside the mother, it's not life. Pregnancy has severe effects on a mother that aren't reversible or temporary and some of those effects last for a while after pregnancy. Most abortions are done because if the baby is born, its life will be terrible. I know 2 people who've aborted. One had two abortions because it was found that the first baby would have been born vegetative and the other with another complication that the couple would not have been able to afford care for. Yes, they were trying to have a baby. Those children would have had no lives to claim for themselves and would have destroyed the lives of the couple had either one been born. Rape is also a justifiable case. Birthing that baby will lead to a tough life for the rape victim (rapes happen to young girls a lot who cannot afford to bring up a child, child is a constant reminder of that horrible night) and a troubled adolescence for the child (imagine being told when you were 15 years old that you were the product of a rape). The woman isn't the only one affected by an unwanted child birth. People need to give her support and jobs or schools have to accommodate for the baby. Until the child can live for his/herself, many lives can be changed for the worst. Still, the poverty that the mother endured could bleed over into her child's adulthood, who will now have to support her mother because the birth ruined her education or something. Suicide causes such problems, it doesn't end them. -------------
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:10pm
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suicide being illegal is stupid....what are you going to charge someone with whos hanging from a cieling fan? do you think god will be mad at them? |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:27pm
| I think it's mildly ironic that there are a couple dozen males sitting here discussing what women's rights should be. |
Posted By: little devil
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:42pm
| im just wondering how many people on this forum who believe that it should be illegal had a kid when they were young? |
Posted By: The American
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:45pm
I don't think many of us even have kids, considering the age group. -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 12:48pm
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You are right, most of the residents qualify as Roe vs Wade decesion survivors. -------------
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Posted By: little devil
Date Posted: 22 April 2007 at 3:44am
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so, should i take that as nobody has had a kid at a younger age? and therefore doesnt have first hand experience? |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 22 April 2007 at 4:36am
| All you anti-abortion people should probably stop masturbating, dont you think? All those wasted sperm, being killed. |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 22 April 2007 at 5:02am
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Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great!
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 22 April 2007 at 5:14am
For if a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate! |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 22 April 2007 at 9:46am
Yeah, because the system doesn't already kill all the sperm that don't fertilize the egg.
And yes, if anyone's wondering, I'm staging a dodgy revolution. |