HK 416
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=169656
Printed Date: 22 February 2026 at 9:38pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HK 416
Posted By: Kristofer
Subject: HK 416
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 4:15pm
| All I can say is wow. Everytime I see a new video I am more convinced its going to replace the M16. http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/carbine/ - MilitaryTimes Video. Only 2 minutes Long. |
Replies:
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 4:27pm
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Gotta love H&K. Unfortunately the government is so slow to change...could be a while before we actually see a full on replace of the 16. ------------- 
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Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 4:28pm
H&K makes some great stuff. My P2000 will be in tomorrow . However I'm not sure the US will be ditching the current set up. I think if they do it will be to something larger than 5.56
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 5:16pm
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yeah but then all the factories would have to changed to make another size round than the 5.56nato. and then we'd have to ask nato to change rounds. well i'm assuming we would.
but congress has been pushing the army into allowing independent tests done with the m4 hk416 and other rifles. so if one surpasses the other i wont be to surprised to see congressional pressure to change the weapon system. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 5:19pm
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.308 is NATO as well, but I don't see the military changing over to it fpr their infantry, just because of the sheer size. The 5.56 allows for more rounds per mag, and therefore more rounds on the soldier. Besides, we're too cool for that. -------------
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Kristofer wrote:Posted By: SandMan
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 6:16pm
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The HK-G36 assault system should have replaced the M16A3 a long time ago... It's a superior weapon all around. There's only one reason why no H&K product will ever do that... Price.
Cost per unit is one of the biggest sticking points for superior weapons systems trying to make it onto the DoD shortlist. ------------- Real Men Love Cheeses |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 7:02pm
| I didnt know we even used the A3's. i thought they said no because of the full auto feature. i know we are currently using the A4's in the Marines. as for the price, i think the HK416 is only slightly higher than a colt m4. and the m16's. and if thats the case. congress may be willing to allow a larger budget to replace weapons so we can have a superior weapon than what is issued. i for one would have loved to shoot the g36. but one thing is nice. they occasionally issue us HK mags for the M16's. heavier, but much more reliable. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 7:11pm
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The Marine Corps brought a bunch of 416's upper recievers a while back. For the DAP's of Force Recon or so scuddlebutt goes. And they had fantastic results with the system over the Block Back Colt Bolt system in Afghan and other 'harsh' conditions.
Best part of the 416 is that it has many of the same elements as current M-4s that we have in service and many parts are already in stock. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 7:22pm
| which is why our beloved corps. should start the switch and lead the way again. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 7:46pm
With the Unarmed Ospreys and the new overbudget Advanced Amphibious Assault Vehicles I dont the Corps has enough of the chump change we get from the Pentagon and Navy for any major purchases. -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 7:47pm
| hahaha true. very true. and the new MRAPs |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 8:39pm
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I wish every Marine and Soldier would have a MRAP to ride on. Then we wouldnt have so many lost lives to road side bombing and small arms fire. -------------
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Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 8:56pm
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That gun is awesome. I don't know much about guns, but it seems pretty cool.
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 9:32pm
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Of all the choices currently on the table... I'd think the HK416 would be the most cost-effective... for the reasons EE stated. Parts compatibility, etc. I believe they could even get away with just buying the upper halves, and keeping the current lowers in service.
Same magazines. Same stripper clips/bandoliers. Same bayonets. Same cleaning kits. Same familiarity for current troops, similar basic operation/maintenance training for newer troops, etc. I know next to nothing of the FN SCAR system. It seems pretty good... but so did the XM-8, and that apparently had dismal test results. Caliber change isn't gonna happen. The cost of a new service rifle is heavy enough without having to retool EVERYTHING. Tooling up Lake City to start pumping out an entirely new *standard* caliber would be a budgetary nightmare for an already strapped Pentagon. Keep in mind the potential for 'regime change' in DC, with high probability of Defense cuts like in the 90s as well. It's just too much of a burden and risk. If anything... bullet change, but not caliber change. Mk262 is doing good work... so a change from the worthless "need to pierce a steel helmet at umpty-yards" M855 to something more along the lines of the Mk262 would probably be more effective in regards to battlefield performance vs. cost effectiveness, than anything else. Reverting back to 7.62x51 isn't going to happen widescale. Something new like 6.8... the support just isn't there. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 23 August 2007 at 11:27pm
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As far as I know the Army (And I beileve the Marines as well) are all switching over to the FN SCAR, in 5.56 and/or 7.62 (Has that nifty quick change caliber/barrel feature). Although, if the Army was the branch most interested, lets pray its nothing like ACUPAT. ------------- 
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 12:06am
| I always thought the G36C was the seckiest gun evar. |
Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 12:16am
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I don't think the M-16 is going away to soon.
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 8:28am
| the Army has flat out said no to switching to the SCAR. Last I heard the Marines had not ruled it out yet. I wouldnt be surprised if the Marines switched to one of the two. The versatility of the SCAR is why I like. If they have the same bolt operation as the HK 416 i will like it even more. Granted Ive never had any problem shooting my M16, but then again, I havent shot it in a desert environment and when we shoot, we spend hours cleaning after for the next shoot. |
Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 8:40am
| I read a thread over on ar-15.com that said the marines were switching to the 20 inch M16a4 where as the army was going with the m4. Part of me would like to see the US just make a Ak rip off like we did with the 1903 |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 9:06am
| Marines already switched to the A4. We only use the A2 for Rifle Qual. Only other people to generally get the A2 are admin types in training stateside on occasion. |
Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 2:01pm
I wish. My unit still gets A2s even on deployment. Most non infantry units I know dont get the A4s. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 7:41pm
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I actually held a 416 and a 417 at a trade show here in Ottawa. Both very solid feeling rifles. I'm a big fan of the continuous picatinny rail down the top; no troublesome integration of upper receiver and handguard rails.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 24 August 2007 at 10:24pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djy6xPmQ5Pg - Video of the SCAR. Just noticed that also comes in .308...very cool.
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Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 1:04am
Never could get that damn video to load,To whoever said they like the fact its a .308, check out the HK 91. -------------
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 8:59am
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^ my dream gun... ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 10:26am
whats your mos? the only people in my company without A4's are the admin type. we in the infantry all have A4's except for the weapons guys, they get M4's. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 1:14pm
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I still hate fixed stocks. One of the ebst aprts about my next year's training is that we'll be issued the newest version of the C7 with the carbine stock. Still on a full lengthed barrel, sadly, but at least it's an improvement.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 1:18pm
My dads AR has a 6 position stock, mine has a soild/fixed, i don't mind the solid stock for shooting, although when i go in the wood messing around i don't mind being able to shorten up the gun. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 1:38pm
Sure, but you're not wearing body armour, I suspect.  In general I prefer the weapon to be shorter anyway; it brings the center of gravity in closer and allows for better control while moving and sweeping rooms. Also stops the arms from tiring out so quickly. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Ben Dover II
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 1:44pm
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nice icon Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 2:06pm
I don't mind the longer gun when shoot from a bench but i hear what your saying, when i'm standing and shooting a small compact gun is nice. -------------
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Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 3:56pm
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whats that new gun the marines are testing out, you can bury it in sand, water, mud, basically do anything to it and it keeps on shooting(and no it's not the AK-47) cant remember, it looks alot like the HK416 though.
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 3:58pm
FN SCAR? |
Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 6:44pm
1171. And yes, Im ready for you to start flaming me for it... |
Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 7:20pm
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The amount of e-penis in this thread is a little overwhelming. I need some fresh air.
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 7:24pm
Yes, because service members talking about their issued rifles and/or a rifle they look forward to having are doing so with the intent of showing off to the rest of the forum... ------------- 
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 7:29pm
I agree with you. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 7:44pm
Or not, since this is the only place where I talk to these particular service members, and we do seem to value each others' opinions, experiences, and inputs... There's no 'e-penis' about serving members of the forces having a discussion, and I'm pretty sure every regular knows who is and who isn't in the military by now. You could simply elect not to read the thread. Get the sand out of your vagina, Whale. It's unbecoming of you. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 7:47pm
And miss the fun of riling you all up? Nay I say. -------------
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 8:00pm
I thought I was being obvious with my sarcasm. They're in the military. Rifles are what let them do their job and help keep them alive. Talking about rifles to them is like Stealth talking about cameras. I get it, cameras aren't primarily used kill. But rifles are what they know, and a better rifle in a soldier's hands makes a more effective soldier. They're not flaunting that they are in the military, they're not bragging about having the use of these weapons for free, and they're certainly not bragging about killing people. It has nothing to do with a boost of ego. As for the topic. I don't have much experience with guns, but I know good features when I see them. Right now the Masada looks like the best gun to issue next, but I don't think Magpul is competing for the contract. From the 3 competing weapons (SCAR, 416, XM8), I'd probably go with the 416. It seems that it would be less bulky and heavy than the SCAR but with the same amount of features. The 416 also has a 7.62 version, so it can do pretty much the same things as the SCAR. I just hope that, if I ever I join the Marines (Chances are looking good now. Also, my dad is supporting me on it), that we are given the best gun without politics getting in the way. I'm sure every gun that will compete for the contract has its merits, but soldiers would do better with the BEST rifle in their hands. -------------
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 8:02pm
You're out of your element. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 8:10pm
Hey dude, you're in. It takes people of every trade to keep things running for those of us on the pointy end. No disrespect coming from me any time soon. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 9:11pm
Thou the weapon I am currently most exited about is the MK32 "Six Pack" Grenade Launcher. Leave it to the Marines to bring this Stylish and Uber Functional Piece of Equipment into the Forefront of the Battle lines where it's needed most.
Comming in a close second is the MK P0WNED Brihard Issue tongue lashing. Wow Whale best head to safe harbor after that Arty Barrage. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 9:33pm
The Chinaman is not the issue here!!!!! ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: Tae Kwon Do
Date Posted: 25 August 2007 at 10:05pm
Please, dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. ------------- 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 12:58am
I dunno, I'm dubious about anything that removes a rifle/LMG for a less discriminating weapon. You can't always use 40mm as readily as you use 5.56... Maybe in the context of a platoon weapons det this might be a good system to employ singly, but I hope they don't start removing rifles/LMGs for this system... I as a section commander shudder at the thought of burdening my troops with extra kit, or of losing access to more precise weapons that are more likely to be needed. I've generally been satisfied with the M203 system. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 12:59am
Like brihard say I have no desire to flame you on your MOS. Needless to say I dont know what 1171 is. but regardless youre a Marine. besides, i only joke about the admin types i am friends with about not being in the infantry. then they threaten my pay stuff and i shut my mouth. its all in good fun.
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 1:01am
| i dono brihard. i havent run into that 6pack thingy yet. but i'd give my 203 up for it. hell yeah. you can still shoot someone with it up close and personal. just the round will most likely go through them if you hit them not blow up. at least id hope it wouldnt go boom. |
Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 1:12am
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Haha the name "six-pack" reminds me of the old AGD Co2 cartridge changer.
------------- Gamertag: Kataklysm999 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 1:15am
I can fire a 5.56 within a few feet of my buddy - or a civilian - if I have to. I can't do the same with a 40mm. Don't get me wrong; having 40mm so handy would be nice, but it's not a tradeoff I'd be keen on. It denies that individual soldier an effective means of discriminating self defense; what if the enemy IS within the activation range of a 40mm? What if the grenade explodes anyway at such close range? What if you're in a building? I just don't like me or any of my troops not having instant access to a weapon that fires bullets in lieu of explosives... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 8:40am
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not being in the millatary im going to go out on a limb and say he carries 2 weapons. i know the weapon pictured might not be his but i see it being fired with the m16 slung like it is in the pic (if you dident notace he still has his rifle).
im not sure about the m79 in days of old but ive heard stories of guys carrying shotguns or bolt action rifles slung while their primary weapon is shouldered. anyways looks like a pain to reload. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 9:01am
| merc you are probably right. but thats a whole lot more weight added to what youre already carrying. if youre fortunate enough to go on a patrol without your day pack/assault pack or your salle pack, you will already be carrying psh i dono 70 pounds at least in personal protection gear including ammunition for your designated weapon. plus water. |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 9:43am
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im not saying thats not alot of weight to be lugging around but i dont think it would be a whole lot more over the standard grenadiers load. now if you add the weapon and grenade load onto a standard infentrys load then yes but a grenadier will have to carry the grenade load as well as the m203 load. all your adding is a plastic stock and the revolving magazine...
add 10lbs to be able to walk rounds in on a target faster (hit a target faster) and faster shot follow up (be able to hit multiple targets faster) i cant say the extra weight is worth it due to the fact that im not a soldier, dont know how much extra weight it would actually be, and have never had to fire a 40mm weapon. but i can see how it could save american lives if you can put more rounds on a target in less time. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 10:26am
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BriHard the MK32 Six Pack doesnt replace a rifle. It's made to replace the inadecuate M203 system. Unlike the M203 the Mk23 has a advanced optic system and the capability of air burst. It can also launch new "Camera" Rounds to give a squad leader eyes on any objective as well as lumination rounds and a more powerfull HEDP round.
The Sixpack is easier to aim and weild and it doesnt weight down the front of the A-4's like the M203 does. I used to carry a 203 fom time to time and used to carry it with the tube open for ease of grip. This slung or in a rucksack is the way to go. -------------
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Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 11:55am
Wow you date yourself there. I had the single changer. I couldn't afford the 6 pack. 
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 5:07pm
You should to find one now days. Expect topay almost double what they retailed for new. Sawone on Ebay go for about $350 -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 5:12pm
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Oops, I missed the slung M16. Don't get me wrong, this weapon is certainly potentially useful- but it's a matter of where it fits within the rifle company. Squad level? Platoon weapons det? Company weapons det? It's a tough call. It's easy to burden us down with useful kit that isn't strctly speaking necessary to the mission. Carrying a couple of these stored in vehicles would make some sense, however... One of the issues that crops up again though is carriage of ammo; if you're firing at a faster rate, you're going to expend more of it. I wonder if EOTech could be approached to create a sight that allows a button push to switch between a typical 5.56mm reticule and a 'funnel' 40mm reticule..? That could greatly increase the usefulness of the M203, if first shot hits were made easier... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Shut_Down_
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 5:20pm
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03 > Intel All others okay. Intel blows..."Sir, there will be a VBIED attack at an undisclosed location at an unknow time." 0351 > 0352, 0311, 0341, 0331...oh it's true.
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 5:29pm
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I found that the Quadrant sight was the most acurate for the M203. Brihard that weapon is deployed depending on the Mission. It's not what you'd carry on average patrol.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=659677064352652937&q=m32+grenade+launcher&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3 - heres a video -------------
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Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 7:30pm
Thanks, its a welcome change. My best friend is 0311 so he talks crap constantly. BTW 1171 = Basic Water Support Technition. I chill by the ocean and set up equipment so you can drink water and not die of disease. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 7:37pm
Same MOS as Pauly Shore.  -------------
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Posted By: Shut_Down_
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 7:38pm
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Meh, water is over-rated anywayz... |
Posted By: holysmartone
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 7:43pm
I knew that was coming.... |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 7:51pm
If I remember correctly Pauly Shore saves the Spec Ops guys and gets the job done. Waterboys FTW! ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 26 August 2007 at 9:07pm
hahaha without water we'd die so you keep up the good work!! |
Posted By: CarbineKid
Date Posted: 30 August 2007 at 1:25am
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http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_rifle_070715/ - Army Times
Intresting article on the HK. It looks likes the Army may give it a shot. From Article "The dust test The upcoming comparative dust test at Aberdeen will pit the M4 against the Heckler & Koch 416, the H&K XM8 and FNH USA’s Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle, also known as SCAR" |