Military Pay...
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=169880
Printed Date: 06 March 2026 at 4:36pm
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Topic: Military Pay...
Posted By: Heres To You
Subject: Military Pay...
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:14pm
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I have seen this before and know it's quite old, but I've never seen it posted before so I thought I'd give it a go. Somebody has started to straighten some of these thoughtless and ungrateful people out. And I am even more grateful that it was someone serving in one of the branches of military. Military paid too much ? You be the judge ! This is an Airman's response to Cindy Williams' editorial piece in the Washington Times about MILITARY PAY, it should be printed in all newspapers across America. On Nov. 12, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise coming service members' way this year -- citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve. A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this. "Ms Williams: I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest earnings statement I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40, after. I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000 host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum... I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions. Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in our armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off of WIC and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN; I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience." As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone -- obviously they've been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them. Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor. Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your opined piece. But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it. You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies. And you, Ms. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? Rubbish! A1C Michael Bragg Hill AFB AFNCC ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: Brivont
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:33pm
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She got owned!
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:43pm
| ha |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:15pm
| http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/gipay.asp - http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/gipay.asp |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:27pm
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IMO a lot of military personal get paid sevral times what they are worth.
now dont get me wrong the low end enlisted ranks get paid crap base and have to work a lot of hours. but they get "bonuses" for just about everything. once you get into mid to high E ranks and im guessing all officer ranks you work less and make more.... the military pay:work is inverse. my step dads half retarded and works "tropical hours" (900-1300) 4-5 days a week. once a month he has to work a "24 hour shift" (gets to sleep and watch tv on base) but then they give him a day or 2 off after... hes making over $60,000 a year. most of which is tax free. (base pay is a little over 35k i think so on paper his salary is 35,000 a year but he makes almost twice that.) in my head... it would suck to be lower ranked personal no question about that. as for the guy saying his job as a civi would pay 70k-80k hes either not qualified (maybe not enough experience) or hes not able to hold a civilan job. or he would go get it... i would MUCH rather see fat trimmed off the top for the kids at the bottom rather than an overall pay raise. the military and government in genral are far to inefficient to be given any more money. i dont mean this to come off as an attack against military/government personal. more so towards the way it/they handle money. no argument i have heard saying the government is efficient or good with money can holds water... ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:34pm
[/thread] ------------- 
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ShortyBP wrote:Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:40pm
I suspected that it would be fake. ------------- 
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:47pm
It's not fake. That just said Cindy Williams isn't the Laverne and Shirley actress. She is a different person. The actress keeps getting hate mail, but says she didnt do it. ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: oreomann33
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:49pm
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tl;dr ------------- 
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Posted By: Heres To You
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 10:42pm
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I don't see why that ends the thread. The point is somebody wrote, the fact that it wasn't a celebrity doesn't take away from the point that someone still believes that...
Merc- I don't know, personally, my NCO's do alot of work. They don't do as much physical work, but they definently put in their hours. Regardless, the hours aren't really where I feel you earn your pay. Leaving family, friends, girlfriends, and loved ones are where I feel you really should be cared for. The fact that this "reporter" or "journalist" feels like were given more than we deserve shows she's never even spent half an hour of research in the "real" military... ------------- |
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 10:50pm
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what an idiot.
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Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:07pm
What does that mean ? ------------- 
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:37pm
Too long; Didn't read. Loosely translated, he didn't feel it was worth his time to go through the entire article, but did take the time to share his feelings about the fact that it would have been a waste of time. ------------- 
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Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:43pm
Well then in that case tl;dr -------------
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 12:11am
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 2:20am
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living in chesapeake VA i know a lot of people in the navy,coast guard, and government work. for the most part i hear/see that they dont have to do as much work as someone in a comparable civilan position.
im all for hazard duty pay for people in harms way... however a few years ago when the crap with hati started to go bad my step dads cutter went to drop off some refugees. they stopped well off shore and sent a small boat with Marines and the refugees ashore. they were in the area for only a few hours and again were well off shore. EVERYONE on that boat got hazard duty pay... the base pay doesnt include living allowance does it? i could be mistaken but i dont believe it does... so base pay might look like crap but then you add 800-1500$ a month depending on location and it doesnt look quite as bad. the "base pay" is basicly beer money to most of the guys around here. if single they get food and shelter handed to them and if they have a family they get a larger living allowance. (not saying living allowance shouldent be there but it should be... acknowledged that the base pay and actual pay are two very different numbers.) right now hes in yorktown. but i know of people who work similer hours as an E7 at little creak (there are MANY more ive heard of but these are people i know personaly) i dont disagree with people not being able to "make it" in the military/government work. they are to VERY different monsters and once you spend 10-15 years in one it is hard for a lot of people to change. "fat trimmed off the top": people who are actualy good at what they do and are in the military should stay but alot of people get where they are by who they know and not how good they are at a job. i also dident mean "cut off" the military but they need to restructure. FAR to much waste things getting lost or just stupid spending. seeing the way government spends the money on a local, state and federal level... i dont think i would want my money going to a federaly controlled health care system. and i also want my social security to be privatized. but thats another story all together... ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 2:50am
if you would have read at the bottom of the snopes page, you would have seen that the article is genuine, as is the response by the named airman. the article was published, but the letter was not. ------------- 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 3:14am
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Speaking for myself, my tour to Afghanistan will (over 19 months of predeployment training and time oveseas) net me 60-70k raw pay, not including foreign service premium, hardship allowance and risk allowance. Plus about half that raw pay will be tax free. That's just Canada though... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Heres To You
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 3:59am
But once you factor in car payment, insurance (which in Hawaii is ridiculous), phone bill (which is alot when your family is in NC), and food, what's left isn't near as high as that lump sum your looking at. ------------- |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:51am
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^all of those things are called bills which most people have to pay...
no one has all of their money as free spending money... but your "base pay" is for luxuries. all of your necessities are provided or paid for. (shelter, food, clothing, ect.) dont get me wrong i know you have bills we all do. but you get money for everything you need on top of your base pay. saying "i have bills so im not really getting that money" is silly... your not going to be able to pocket all of your earnings most of us cant. so when its all said and done all you have to pay for is your car and calling home? they will feed you on base but i know its good to get out some times and eat someplace nice... what kind of car did you get? not saying you but alot of the guys around hear spend most all of their $ on their car. its not bad when its the only bill you have... im not saying you get to pocket all of your earnings but getting $13,000 and having to pay for everything is MUCH different than $13,000 and having everything provided... (side note: check out USAA they were half the price that Geico is when my family looked into it. my sister is going to be saving over $1000 a year on her car insurance.) ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 3:35pm
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Want to know something ironic? George W. Bush gets paid $250,000 to run our country (I know he isn't doing a amazing job, but he could definitely be doing worse). Derek Jeter gets paid $50,000,000+ to hit a ball with a stick. ------------- 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 5:48pm
Supply and demand. Derek Jeter gets paid 50mil because his team makes enough money to support it- and it is because of paying exorbitant wages to skilled players that they attract the market interest to be able to afford it. It shouldn't bother you what anyone else gets paid so long as it doesn't involve you being forced to pay money out of your own pocket to support it. People have no place complaining about how others are paid. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Heres To You
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 6:01pm
I have a honda civic, 03. Nothing extravagant, but dependable enough to get me to and from the hangars for work. I wasn't acting like other people don't have bills, but when you think our food is paid for, it doesn't work that way for everyone. If you know the layout of Hawaii, my base doesn't even have a DFAC (Chow Hall), so I have to buy my food or eat out, I don't have $2 DFAC meals. And it's not just car payments, just for giggles, call up and as for a Hawaii representative with your insurance company, make up a fake Hawaii Address, and get a quote. I bet it's alot different than you think, especially if your 19. Anyway, my point is not to say that were not taken care of, I'm just trying to figure out where this stereotype is coming from that were rolling in cash. My opinion (and it's severely biased) is that military, alot like teachers, are heavily underpaid... ------------- |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 6:37pm
If you would have read my response, you would have realized that I read the snopes page. I was telling Tolgak hwta the snopes page said. The actress didn't write the article, but it was real. Maybe if you read the snopes you would know what I was saying. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 6:41pm
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People Join the Service for the Cash now days?
Isnt that the reward for long years in college so you can pay off those huge college loans? ------------- 
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Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 7:46pm
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I think that dude should go get the job that pays 80k a year. Sounds like a good deal.
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 7:53pm
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well, the Army currently has a 20k signing bonus they give out if you go to basic before oct. 1. of this year.
other than that, first year enlisted personnel should be making like 12-13k their first year. and roughly the same the following year. i wish we got paid more, but so far, ive learned people dont really join for the money, because it certainly isnt found in the military. great job security if you do your job correctly though. |
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 7:57pm
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To be honest, the pay is more of a reason not to join.
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 8:28pm
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kristofer that 12-13k is before you figure in housing allowance, uniform allowance, seperation pay, and other pays that are not taxed... like i said before theres a big differance between 13k to live off of and 13k + money for all of the things you need. or those things given to you.
maybe on paper their income will be 13k but they will make closer to 30k and most of that wont be taxed... EE: the military is a good way to get on your feet if your coming from a poor family. 4 years in and everything is supplied plus money to save/have fun with... then when you get out you can walk into a government job making 50k a year or go to school on uncle sams dime... not saying everyone joins for the money but its probly one of the easiest way to get your feet under you when its time to leave the nest. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 8:47pm
| dont forget, if you are active duty, tuition assistance is 100% paid for. keep your grades up. books and all are paid for. you could basically get a doctorates while serving if you stayed in long enough. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 9:04pm
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 9:37pm
What's that, like ten or twelve US dollars?  ------------- 
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 10:18pm
Dude you know that I am a veteran? What I am stating is that if your Joining the Servive for Cash your Nuts. Unless your one of those dudes who still doesnt have running water and plays the banjo and the washboard. -------------
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:55pm
As a fellow veteran, I have to say that EE hit the nail on the head. As a note to merc, consider that with the retention problems the service is experiencing that many junior NCOs end up being directly responsible for 6 to 10 direct reportees after about 5 to 6 years in. The pay that is generally received at that point (including housing and subsistence, if the individual is not in the dorm or issued a "meal card") is not comparable to what someone with similar responsibilities makes in the civilian world. At the senior NCO ranks, the disparities get significantly larger with responsibilities which can include resources with serious dollar values and having to answer for the actions of several dozen to more than 100 troops. The senior officers get paid quite well, but, as an example, my last commander was in charge of in excess of 500 people and millions of dollars worth of equipment. Any one of those troops could have essentially ended his career with a serious enough mistake. My point is that their is a correlation between responsibility and pay. Now, are there slackers who don't earn their pay? Of course, you will find that in any organization. It may be that changing requirements reduced the workload of certain positions. It could be that the job is one that only gets rough in certain circumstances. Perhaps whoever is in charge of the section is a good enough manager to put a program in place that made the section more efficient. (You never want to appear to efficient. The reward for excess efficiency is losing your good people and being given more work.) Or, perhaps, the individual is just a really good slacker who happened to get into an easy job and keep it. (I hated those guys for several reasons: While I was barely seeing my family, they were taking two hour lunches and going to the gym. Once they get into those jobs, they are impossible to dislodge unless they really screw up. Finally, I would have liked to have a job like that, just once, for maybe six months as a break from the pace the rest of my jobs moved at. Edited Note: EE, there was no reason to use my southern relatives as an example in your previous post. -------------
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Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:57pm
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Whoa whoa whoa, why do you guys care so much ?
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:12am
It is annoying and confrontational posts like this, which don't add to the discussion at all, that make everyone doubt that you are seriously trying to turn over a new leaf and leave the behavior of your Ghost Rider personae behind you. Edited Note: As for why we care so much; I can't speak for others, but having spent 23 years in the military, and being proud of that fact, I feel the need to correct the stated misperceptions of those who haven't. It's a free country, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has a right to state it. However, I have the right to offer differing opinions/perceptions based on my experiences when it seems that someone is drawing conclusions or making statements based on inadequate/faulty information or lack of experience. -------------
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Posted By: Nuclear
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:17am
What ? I just wonder why you guys put so much into little stuff. -------------
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Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:24am
------------- Gamertag: Kataklysm999 
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:26am
In that case, I would recommend putting a little effort into changing your approach. P.S. I did answer the original question above, it just took a little time to formulate. P.P.S. As for changing your forum image: If you ignore the people who remember your previous user name and bring it up and try reading your posts once before posting just to make sure your message isn't going to come across wrong, you will be surprised how little time it will take for someone else to become the center of negative attention*. (We had a saying when I was in: "It doesn't matter how bad you screw up, if you wait long enough someone else will do something that will make everyone forget what you did.") *You'll still get messed with a bit, everybody does; how you respond will determine the duration/level of such abuse. -------------
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:32am
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i was talking about the guys who have nothing. kids who get kicked out at 17/18 or come from a podunk town where they cant afford to live. while they are in and after they get out (given they dont get kicked out) will have a much better chance of breaking out of the lower class and making a better life for themselves and their family.
fact is even though someones "base pay" might be really crappy they are making alot more than that... you cant say their salary or income is equal to their base pay. i agree that most of the time civi jobs pay better than someone doing the same thing in a military setting. the point i guess i tried to make from the beginning is that they are getting paid alot more than people are showing... 12k is base not total income. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:48am
If that is the point you were trying to make, I don't have that big an issue with it. There are, however, reasons for the way the military pay system is set up. First, as someone pointed out above, supply and demand comes into play. While they referred to sports stars, the same rules apply to the military. The government is going to pay the minimum they think they can get away with and still attract/retain recruits. Keep in mind that the military is in competition with the civilian job market and while Wal-Mart may not pay that great, they can reasonably promise that a competitor like K-Mart isn't going to overrun their store and shoot at their employees.* As the military needs both access to their troops, thus base housing and barracks/dorms work well for them. It keeps the younger troops, who might consider "ducking out" on a recall more available. Dormitory living and meal cards also ensure that an 18 year old troop who spends his money foolishly will still have a place to sleep and food available even if they can't drive their car because after making payments and buying insurance they don't have money available for gas.** The big benefit to the government though is that when it comes time to calculate retirement pay, all of those "extras" disappear and the math is based on base pay alone. *I got a hilarious visual image when I typed this. **Seen it. -------------
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Posted By: Heres To You
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 1:25am
30K? I wish.... Let me run you through what I get... My base pay comes out to about 14K (I'm an E-2). That uniform allowance you speak of is about $400 you get annually to purchase new uniforms, and with ACU's now, trust me you will use it on uniforms... I don't get separation because I'm single. The thing I get that most people don't is COLA because I live in hawaii which is $160 a month which is taxed, but for the sake of arguing we'll say that it isnt. $160X12= $1720. Add in meals at $450 a month, and you get $5400 per year. Right there (without taxes) I'm getting about 21K a year... Hardly 30... Granted I do have housing and insurance.... ------------- |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:21am
The Canadian dollar has been between 94 and 96 cents US lately. I'd say I'll be doing well enough.  ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 5:59am
burn |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:13pm
whats living allowance in hawaii??? if its over 750$ a month then you would be making close to 30k... (granted you probly cant find a place in hawaii for 750$ a month) so you say 21k but you dont have rent coming out of that...if you dident live on base you would be making about 30k... ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:24pm
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thats in hawaii....if that is the amount they get for housing....what if your somewhere else where your only getting 200 a month (just an example) for housing? then your not making near 30k either way, housing, food, uniforms, they get those things for a reason...BECAUSE the base pay is so low they cant do those things with it. from what i understand what you get, housing for example and COLA as herestoyou mentioned, is based on where he lives. |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:38pm
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200 is a little low... i know guys that were E3s getting 600$ a month but they found a place for 300$ a month rent and pocketed the other 300$...
the fact is the base pay is free spending money. there are no bills that HAVE to be taken out of the base pay. things like cars are nice but if you live and work on base they are not needed. if you have a wife and kids its a bit different but you get extra money for that too. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 12:44pm
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even still, lets use his 21k. base pay being 13, leaving 8k for necessity, food, rent, etc. even with that 13K, thats still below living on minimum wage by about 2K, before taxes. 13K doesnt get you that far, esp. when you look at car payments, insurance, etc. granted they do get discounts and such, but again bc the base pay is that low. so your looking at 13K, picture buying a big screen TV for 5K and having that being almost half of your annual base income. |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 1:12pm
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im starting to become frustrated with this thread.... AS STATED BY BOTH ME AND Heres To You HE DOESNT HAVE TO PAY RENT FROM THAT $21,000!
going out and buying a 5000$ TV is stupid for a 18-20 year old kid thats living beyond his means regardless. getting out of high school and having 21k a year for a car, phone, and food is doing good. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 1:29pm
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I made about $13.75 a day while at basic... and anyone who has ever been there knows that even though they say you'll get 8 hours of sleep, that rarely every happens.
So, including meals, I was on duty at the very least, 16 hours a day. Including firewatch, it could be about 18 hours. $0.76 an hour. Pay sucks. You don't do it for the pay though. ------------- 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 1:44pm
Wow. I'll never complain about my pay again. You gus get boned hard. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 1:47pm
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I make about 1,500 a month base pay as an E-3. Taken out of that is $250 for using the chow hall(yes, they charge you monthly in the Corps for using the chow hall. Its not free). They take out $30 for the SGLI, I pay 150 a month for fed taxes, and 60 bucks a month for state tax. So I take home about $1000 bucks a month after taxes. I don't rate BAH, so I don't draw that. The only thing thats decent is that I don't have to pay for housing since I am forced to live in the barracks. Pay sucks. ------------- 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 1:56pm
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Now that I'm on full time contract, I'm making 4300 a month. Out of that I'll be paying about $300 for rations and quarters, paying about 18% tax, plus deduction for pension and a couple of other minor deductions... While overseas we get a prettyhuge bonus for risk, hardship, and foreign service, plus our income is tax free while in Afghanistan. Awesome deal. After this tour (19 month total contract, or thereabouts) I'm banking most of the money into mutual funds for a few years til I'm done school and have a career; that's my house money. I may go overseas again after school... Depends what missions Canada's deployed on at the time, and whether they'll have any spots for reserve infantry junior NCOs. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:02pm
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What are you? E-5?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:06pm
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DO Canadians use the E-grade that we use?
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:19pm
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No, we don't have the E grade, but NATO ranks all have equivalencies. I would be equivalent to an E4, though I have the leadership qualification to command a section- generally a job that would go to an E6 equivalent. I should get promoted to Master Corporal (E5 equiv) on my return from afghanistan, and probably shortly thereafter go on my course to qualify me for E6 a few years down the road from that.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:20pm
| any marines/soldiers here, im curious...what would a new 2LT make? anyone know? |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:27pm
You'll start out at about 48k. Google is your friend. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:27pm
How big is your section? Before I took my new job, I was in charge of anywhere between 20-60 Marines at a time as a LCpl. That is normal in the Corps, maybe not in the Army though... -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:46pm
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A section is on paper eight soldiers. It may be short one or two, it may be as big as twelve or 13 due to lack of leadership/surplus of troops. We try to train a job or two higher than what we are. My course qualified me to be a master corporal, and taught me the job (ion battle) of a sergeant. A sergeant is supposed to command a section, and a master corporal is supposed to be section 2ic. In the reserves, however, we're chronically short of NCOs, so as long as you have the training, you generally get the job regardless of whether you've attained the rank yet or not. The regular force is much healthier for NCOs though.,. Our section commanders in Afghanistan generally have at least twelve years in the infantry to have made Sergeant. Most of the combat in Afghanistan is regular force units; our reserves rarely fulfill front line positions, although some individuals do get augmented into reg force units to fill holes. I'm hoping that's what happens to me over the next few months. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:58pm
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Wow that surprises me that ya'll are so heavy on NCO's.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 3:15pm
Not really. I n the regular force it takes four years to make corporal, eight years to make master corporal, and twelve years to make sergeant. Each rank has a job that it performs, and we do our best to keep those jobs filled by people of that rank. An infantry platoon will have: A Lt as platoon commander, A warrant officer (NCO in the Canadian army) as platoon 2ic, Three sergeants as section commanders, Three master corporals as section 2ics, plus maybe another Sgt or MCpl to command the platoon weapons det. Three sections of 8 troops (including NCOs), another three troops in the weapons det, and a signaller and you have a platoon of 31 or 32 troops. Sure, a fair number of NCOs- but NCOs get wounded and you need someone else to take over. We're not a large army, so we cultivate experience and training, and put a lot of effort into retention. Now, as a comparison, last year at my reserve regiment my platoon had: Lt as platoon command Sgt as platoon 2ic, Sgt, MCpl, and two Cpls as section commanders, 4 Cpls as section 2ics, And a weapons det with a Mcpl commanding. Total of 4 NCOs and 6 Cpls filling a job or two up for 42 soldiers split in 4 sections and a weapons det. Totally different from 'on paper', but maybe a half to two thirds of the troops show up on an average weekend training exercise, due to being on courses, having school committments, or whatever. We didn't have the troops or leadership for two real platoons, so we formed one uberplatoon- and on weekend exercises had pretty close to a 'real' platoon show up. The reserves are a bloody weird organization. We have no obligation to serve in Canada; we can't be forced overseas, we have no job protection, so attendance is very hit or miss with some troops. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 3:18pm
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i did use google, but the same goarmy.com website also once said a private makes 15K out of boot, but heres to you is making 13k as an E-2, so i figured the site might be wrong |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 4:45pm
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I didn't use goarmy... I found a link to official pay scales.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Heres To You
Date Posted: 04 September 2007 at 2:00am
I might have been wrong, I just know what I make monthly, and that's what he said. It probably is 15k. ------------- |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 04 September 2007 at 12:56pm
Am I complaining? I'm just stating that after playing baseball for one year, you can be loaded for life, where the worst thing you can do is break a wrist. One year of presidential service wont even buy you a nice house, where the worst thing you can do is kill the entire planet. -------------
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 04 September 2007 at 1:12pm
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Solution. Vote communist.
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Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 05 September 2007 at 10:12am
| I think military pay is ok, for me at least. Granted I have no spouse or children, and I'm an E-4 (Yea, my sig shows E-2, I need to update it =P). I know for people who are married or have kids, money is tight and especially here in Dahlgren, VA. Our BAH rates are based on Fort AP Hill (which are low), not Washington D.C. (which are high). The kicker is that contracted civilians working for the DoD draw the Washington D.C. BAH rate while Active Duty Military get Fort A.P. Hill rates, and we live in the same area. Tell me that isn't screwed up. |
Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 05 September 2007 at 11:00am
| thats wicked screwed up. complain to the chain of command that your BAH isnt sufficient for the living locations. |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 05 September 2007 at 11:48am
The CoC knows, we actually had a 3 star come down here to find out what's wrong with the AEGIS program, blah blah blah. Someone mentioned the BAH rates to him, he said they were aware and are "reviewing" the issue. So as far as I know, it could be sitting at the bottom of some big wig's inbox. Our new Command Master Chief is really pushing it forward though, so hopefully he will get things changed for us here. And it isn't just a small increase in BAH. I get $854 on Fort AP Hill rates and I think DC rates are around $1000. Big difference. |