Lightening the rear bolt?
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Tippmann Paintball
Forum Name: Paintball Ideas / News From Tippmann
Forum Description: Got a new idea or a way to improve something?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=171099
Printed Date: 15 July 2025 at 2:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Lightening the rear bolt?
Posted By: SirHitalot
Subject: Lightening the rear bolt?
Date Posted: 28 October 2007 at 6:29am
| Wouldnt it make the gun more gas efficient to have to move less weigt? |
Replies:
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 28 October 2007 at 12:08pm
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Yes, and no. Companies already sell lightened rear bolts, the problem is with a lighter rear bolt you require a heavier drive spring so it still takes about the same amount of gas to recoil the hammer.
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 28 October 2007 at 12:53pm
| Snake speaks the truth. |
Posted By: rcase
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 8:03pm
| would it, however, reduce recoil since there would be less moving mass? |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 8:25pm
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Yes, it does.
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Posted By: tippmannfreak
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 8:29pm
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recoil is a product (the negative product) of the momentum created by firing the paintball. By lightening the bolt, hell the entire gun, you would actually increase the force of recoil (kind of).
(mass of paintball)*(velocity of paintball)=(mass of gun)*(velocity of gun) the velocity of the gun will be opposite the direction of the paintbal.. in other words, into your body. If the gun is lightened, but the left hand side of the equation is left untouched, the velocity of the gun into your body must be increased. It must be, or the laws of physics will completely fall apart, and you may very likely explode. |
Posted By: The Guy
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 9:25pm
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To simplify what everyone here just said, get an RVA. A rear velocity adjuster lightens the striking force of the main drive spring effectively using less gas per shot. The way the current velocity adjuster works, the tippmann guns use the same amount of gas no matter the speed. ------------- http://www.anomationanodizing.com - My Site 
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Posted By: rcase
Date Posted: 14 November 2007 at 6:11pm
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ah ive broken the laws of physics before its not so bad...I would think though that the equation would be more like this (mass paintball)(velocity paintball)=(mass bolt)(velocity bolt)=(mass gun)(velocity gun) assuming... 1 = mass paintball, 280 fps paintball, 3 = mass bolt, x = velocity bolt(fps), 300 = mass gun, y = velocity gun 1*280fps = 3x = 300y; 280=3x: x=93.3; 93.3=300y: y=0.311 lightened bolt... 1=mass paintball, 280 fps paintball, 1.5 = mass bolt, x=Vb, 300 mass gun, y = Vg 1*280 = 1.5x = 300y; 280=1.5x: x=186.6(increased bolt velocity); 186.6=300y:y=0.622< ahh!! then it is increased velocity so tippfreak was right. hmm but...1=Mp, 280=Vp, 1.5=Mb, x=Vb, 900=Mg, y=Vg 1*280=1.5x=600y; x=186.6; 186.6=900y: y=0.207(but really tripling gun weight?! poo on that) So im thinking all we gain by lighting rear bolt is possible faster recocking? Although increasing spring tension to compensate for what, higher fps return? Im getting confused now. I know that rear spring directly effects/affects<dont know which to use> ball fps but ahhhh i think i am goign to explode. Take all this with a grain of salt im a programmer and dropped out of engineering school many years ago.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:20am
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Well, here's the drawback on the lightened hammer in a stock valve situation. If you lessen the mass traveling forward to strike the valve, it take more force with less mass to keep the valve open for the same amount of time (dwell) than it would with the stock configuration. Now, if you lighten the rear hammer AND lighten the valve springs, it takes less force to keep the valve open allowing you to lower the input pressure giving you more efficiency as well as reducing the amount of reciprocating mass. Remember, the best marker systems are "balanced" systems where the input pressure, dwell time, and force needed to open the valve and achieve the appropriate dwell time are all carefully balanced. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: rcase
Date Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:37pm
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hmm then where can i buy the valve springs?
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:56pm
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You can't. You would have to get one custom made. Unless you get the LPK which has a valve with lightened springs in it already.
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Posted By: rcase
Date Posted: 16 November 2007 at 8:59pm
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what is LPK?
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Posted By: kurieitaa
Date Posted: 17 November 2007 at 6:31am
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LPK= Low Pressure Kit. ------------- 
[ http://kurieitaa.googlepages.com - My Web Site }-{ http://kurieitaa.googlepages.com/cpbg - My Paintball Guns ] |
Posted By: rcase
Date Posted: 17 November 2007 at 1:44pm
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ahh cool... so then my goal should be LPK, assuming it has lightened rear hammer but if not then lighten hammer, Etrigger, and compressed air and i should get a fairly quick firing gun? |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 17 November 2007 at 3:11pm
Yup. The fastest 98's are E-BOLTED though. Where the rear bolt is replaced by an electronic ram. You can adjust dwell time and such by pushing a button. ------------- 
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rcase wrote:Posted By: SirHitalot
Date Posted: 11 December 2007 at 7:09am
Well, you dont calculate with the mass of the bolt which is also pushed forwards. This will make more difference than the mass of the paintball... The bolt of my ion weighs about 10g, and it that is what making the difference between that and my A5... If it was only the paintballs and the marker that mattered, my ion would have more recoil, because its lighter... Also, people say they cant hear that im shooting at them, only the balls flying around their ears, thats not the case with my A5, but it doesnt matter, i love it more:) (mass of paintball)(velocity of paintball)+(mass of hammer and bolt)(speed of hammer and bolt) = (mass of marker minus the mass of paintball, hammer and bolt)(speed of marker minus paintball, hammer and bolt) |
Posted By: tippmannfreak
Date Posted: 11 December 2007 at 10:35am
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if you inclue the mass of the hammer with the mass of the marker, that is the mass of the SYSTEM! it won't make a differnence. You can't say it will make more difference than the mass of the paintball, it is because the mass and velocity of the paintball that you experience "kick."
honestly, a bumb on a month old post for this? |