Westboro Baptist Church to pay $10.9 mil.
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Topic: Westboro Baptist Church to pay $10.9 mil.
Posted By: Benjichang
Subject: Westboro Baptist Church to pay $10.9 mil.
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 6:35am
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7072404.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7072404.stm Good. Hope they get more fines in the future. It's only a matter of time until someone does something worse to one of these morons. -------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Replies:
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 7:46am
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We should infect them with AIDS.
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 7:51am
Honestly, I understand protesting the war. But what the Church has been doing is damn disgusting. ------------- 
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High Voltage wrote:Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 9:03am
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Its people like that who give religion a bad name.
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Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 10:17am
I'm on the case? Srsly, good. I'm surprised someone hasn't martyred themselves (or at least the cash needed to place a bomb and get out safely) to either get rid of the church or further the church's goals. ------------- 
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 10:37am
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I don't feel bad about this bankrupting them. They had to have forseen it happening someday. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: reifidom
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 11:34am
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I'd use the money to hire Blackwater as security at other soldier's funerals. ------------- 
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Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 11:38am
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Clearly we need legislation to stop frivolous lawsuits and outrageous jury awards of punitive damages. ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 11:49am
You wrote that in a way that could either lean to the sarcastic side or as a statement of fact.... stupid internet. While I love the fact that Westboro baptist got a legal smack-down, I actually do feel that 10.9M is an excessive award given the severity (or lack there of) of the act committed. They don't have the money to pay, they never will, and the non-profit/tax exempt status that churches are offered in this nation also protect the individual members and founders. While Westboro Baptist may itself have to file bankruptcy and be dissolved, what assets could they possibly have that would be of that kind of value? The entity may cease to exist on paper, but the people who make up the church, and thus the protesters, won't be touched. All the decision of the jury did was strike a a ghost, and disproportionately so. If someone truly wants to stop the Westboro group, they need to have them hauled in for criminal charges against the members. Conspiracy and inciting a riot would be at the top of my list. It isn't the message which they wish to have heard that should fall under scrutiny, it is free-speech after all, but rather the method of delivery. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 12:51pm
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Agreed, I like the fact that they're getting one hell of a smack in the jaw, but if you're going to punish groups whose antics are a 'circus of hate' why then aren't organizations like the KKK being slapped with similar fines? What Westborough does is disgusting, sick, and blatantly moronic....but they don't commit violent crimes, and they are working within their legal freedoms. HOW they exercize those rights is more of the question than 'are they?'
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 12:51pm
I like that idea, but I'd do it for free if I was granted immunity for my actions. |
Posted By: Mephistopheles
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 1:13pm
Make sure it's the gay AIDS. Then that'll really make them happy! ------------- http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=166647&PN=1"> 
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Posted By: sporx
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 2:19pm
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that's one of many reasons why i'm agnostic. "god" wouldn't want people to treat other people like that. even if being gay is a "sin". times change and people need to deal with it. it's the same thing with race as well. there's no need to judge people by their color, clothes, religion, or sexuality. i judge people by their behavior. ------------- 
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Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 5:19pm
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TREASON!
I don't believe this should be one of the reasons as to why you're agnostic. The excessive majority of mainstream churches believe in the ideals you have; you can't take places like this as a large representation. They are far misguided in their opinions, and obviously many people in religions agree with you (as the $10,000,000 goes to show). I am also agnostic. I have a Catholic upbringing, and even go to confirmation classes as well as a Catholic high school. Its mostly because I base most of my beliefs in things I experience and logic, while believing in various philosophies. The reason why I am not an atheist is because I have found many things in my life and in those around me that I can not explain by experience or logic, and so I chose to believe in a higher power. Some would call it universal powers, etc.., but I do believe that there could easily be something more. ------------- 
http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 5:30pm
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As much as I don't like them, they still have 1st Amendment rights.
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 5:39pm
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It's about time they get the treatment they deserve. Yes, they are acting within the limits of the law, but one could argue that the targets of the protesting are emotionally scarred as a result. I know that if someone I loved was protested like that after his/her death, I would be devastated at the very thought of WBC for the next few years of my life, and that pain would be difficult to get over. It's emotional trauma that they are looking to cause, and that alone is enough to bring up physical problems in people. Causing short term problems for other people is still a punishable offense (depending on what you do), so this is not exactly an unconstitutional move by the court that carried on the lawsuit. I hate to defend the KKK, but at least they don't protest at the funerals of non-whites, and actually seek permits before they have their rallies. Their aim is nearly as bad, but it is nothing compared to what WBC does weekly.
Sporx, Yomillo is right, the ideas of specific religions shouldn't turn you away from your belief in a higher power. As nonexistent as the evidence is, it's still not illogical to believe in the existence of a deity provided you can define your idea of what that deity is and the reason for its existence. It's still faith, but not to the extreme level that all the world's religions take it. Yomillo, agnosticism classifies those people that cannot say they believe there is a god(s) or not. If you can say you believe in a deity outside of religion, then it's called Deism/Theism. ------------- 
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Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 8:01pm
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Posted By: ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 8:03pm
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 8:33pm
Not like the kkk murdered anyone or anything... ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: sporx
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 8:49pm
i came from a methodist and baptist upbringing. Yeah, what they did doesn't just turn my beliefs of a higher power. I was just trying to say that it was one reason why I choose to be agnostic. I just can't believe that these people that claim to follow the book would attack gay people out of judgement. If there is a god then I doubt he would want people that claim his religion to treat people the way they did and use the whole "God Hates You - You're going to Hell because You're gay" crutch. People perform different sins everyday. even good hearted christians sin. and to have homophobs shoot gay people down like that is pathletic. there's no bragging rights there whatsoever. That was one of my reasons that I was trying to get across. -------------
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 01 November 2007 at 10:51pm
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Why I believe firmly in Freedom of Speech. I do think that no constitutional right should be abused to hurt anyone. While there is a freedom of speech that should not be a get out of jail cop out card to go an hurt people. Specially ones devastated by a great loss. Just as it would had been Illegal for them to go and club the mother of that Lance Corporal, that would pale in comparison to the pain they have permentally caused them. ------------- 
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Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 11:40am
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lol - that would also reflect my own ambiguous feelings about this case. Initially I am just poking fun at the doubtless large group of people that usually protest whenever there is a large jury award but are cheering for this one, since this truly does fit virtually every definition of a frivolous lawsuit. I mean, c'mon - they are suing for "emotional distress". That's the most bogus tort in the world. Basically they are suing because "meanie you made me sad". And the jury awards, as you point out, bear no apparent relationship to reality. The victims suffered $2MM+ worth of actual damages from being saddened? Really? Really? (/Poehler). I mean, seriously. The punitive damages actually make more sense than the compensatory damages here, but again fall right in the middle of the type of damages that recent legislation has been trying to limit. By some proposed variants, this lawsuit would have been capped at a couple hundred thousand. So, this case fits the profile of the ones that the "tort reform" crowd is whining about, and I am waiting for somebody to argue this case as an example in favor of more tort reform. As to the substance- very tricky, for all the reasons that have been brought out. Clearly a serious freedom of speech issue here, yet we have about as sympathetic of a victim as one can imagine, and I am just surprised that there hasn't been more violence at these funerals. Ultimately, based on the facts as I understand them (which isn't much, since I haven't bothered to read any of the articles), I would think that this case came out wrong. Fundamentally, nutballs have a right to shout in this country. And the more offensive the shouting, the greater that right. ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 11:43am
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They should have a right to shout. But honestly, waving signs that say "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" at a soldiers funeral in front of all his friends and family is disgusting. I am positive they can find another method of protest than that. -------------
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Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 11:46am
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Sure it's disgusting - but how is it different than waiving signs with pictures of aborted fetuses? ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:06pm
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I wasn't aware people where doing that. Thats pretty disgusting as well. What truly baffles me is the thought that people think they are doing Gods will when they protest these funerals. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:19pm
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Trust me Susan, I agree that this is a great case study in tort reform. As I said, the award amount is absolutely insane.
Interestingly enough, did you know that favoring tort reform will now exclude you from jury duty in civil cases in the District of Columbia? Hand to God. That was the only reason that the plaintiff's attorney could find to eject me from a case. I actually wanted to serve on the jury trying the case! Dude was filing suit for an undisclosed amount of damages against the George Washington Medical Center because he allegedly got bed-sores. Claims were emotional and physical distress, negligence, and a call for punitive damages. Some people just blow my mind. "The US Judicial system: better odds than the lottery!"  ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:19pm
I can go around with a flamethrower in a mall claiming it is in the name of god and god won't be on my side. Also, you said something about gay being a sin. IMHO, God doesn't have anything against homosexuals. The way I look at it, If god didn't like homosexuals, he wouldn't have made them. ------------- 
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:23pm
Because, anti abrtionists can go wave signs saying something thats not-disgusting. WBC could have protested at hundreds of other places against homosexuals and not drag other innocent parties in. Hell, they could have protested saying that marine died because of our tolerance, and not involved or hurt his family. -------------
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:29pm
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I like that the huge uproar is not that the group is saying such violent and hurtful things against the homosexual community. Rather the outcry is that they do it at a funeral. -------------
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:44pm
Do also think that god likes Rapists and Murderers? -------------
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Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:47pm
------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:49pm
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Fixed. Marine is spelled with a capitol M. Marine. ------------- 
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:53pm
Oh the jokes I could make. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 1:02pm
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Sorry, typo. Spelled* -------------
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 1:04pm
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MBD, you're correct that the context is the problem. I don't think the 1st amendment protects context, only the message and peaceful delivery. Attacking funerals is invading privacy with the intent of harming those at the funeral. This isn't just some idiotic bickering, this is a group of people who attack others at their emotionally weakest and least sane point. Part of WBC's motive in attacking funerals is because of increased chance of someone getting pissed off enough to attack them. If I remember correctly, WBC has (rightly) sued before for such attacks and uses the money they can gain as motivation for further protesting in sensitive situations. I agree that banning the protests is unconstitutional; but in situations as sensitive as funerals with a specific target in mind, severe restrictions on where they can be are allowable. I say let them do whatever the hell they please (peacefully), but not within visual or aural distance from a funeral. 3/4 of a mile should do.
You seem to be implying that being gay is a choice. It's not. -------------
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 1:10pm
I'm just saying is ludicrous to declare that all Gays go Hell. Thats like saying all Heterosexual people go to Heaven. My view point is such; if you are a good person, you will go to Heaven, regardless of sexual preference. If you are a bad person, then you are destined to Purgatory or Hell, depending on the amount of black marks against you. Of course I am not suggesting that I believe in God or not, because I have a hard time as of late. -------------
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 1:56pm
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LOL @ religion
------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 2:40pm
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does this mean, I should knock up my gf, find an abortion clinic that has protesters in front of it with signs saying that we're going to hell and waving pictures of dead babies in front of me, get an abortion, and sue? I mean... it's worth a shot isn't it?  |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 2:43pm
LOL @ Atheism -------------
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