I qual’d marksman today.
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Topic: I qual’d marksman today.
Posted By: Thor
Subject: I qual’d marksman today.
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:34pm
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Although under the new rules, any idiot can qual marksman these days. I qual'd under the old rules( where you needed night shoot and 68/70 day and 14/20 night) to get my crossed rifles.
Yet another gucci thing to add to my almost full DEU's All that's left for me is the iron fist instead of flags and a nice pair of sky white jump wings :) Maybe a sacrifice medal or some wound stripes...but that's closer to retirement. Just thought Bri and some of the rest of you would be interested. Incidently, how does 'merican qualifications compare? Just curious... ------------- A second class drive is always better than a first class walk. |
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:38pm
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PWT 2 or 3? PWT 3 is marksman; crpss rifles and crown. PWT 2 is first class shot- cross rifles alone. I was an ARSO on Monday for the NSE up here. Some of those arts and crafts types made me distinctly nervous. I don't like seeing a supply tech doing a rundown shoot with her hand on the pistol grip... Gooddamned cold day too, even with all the trees blocking wind on Delta range. Congrats on Marksman- although it is pretty bloody easy. 56 out of 69 on the PWT 3, and you only need to score hits, not groupings... On Monday the vast majority of failures were on the 1, since you don't get the flyer anymore, with only the four best shots counting... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:42pm
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Depends on the branch really.
Marines have 3 levels: marksman, sharpshooter, and expert. Marines are tested at the furthest distance of any of the branches to qual. Pizza-boxes are frowned upon in boot. ------------- 
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:48pm
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Marksman is junk on our quals. We shoot a 250 point system. 190-209 Marksman 210-219 Sharpshooter 220-250 Expert Targets are scored by rings. Black is 5 points, then 4 then three then 2 then 1. You shoot 25 rounds from the 200 yd line, 5 standing, 5 kneeling, 5 sitting. Plus a 10 round rapidfire from the sitting in 60 seconds. You shoot 20 rounds from the 300yd line 10 from the sitting and ten rapidfire from the prone. Then you shoot 10 rounds at 500yds from the prone. The sum of all your points is your score. The combat portion is a pass/fail thing changes all the time so I'm not going to post it here. ------------- 
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:50pm
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army has marksman, sharpshooter and expert also. no night shooting, qual is, you're given 40 rounds, you shoot ( i believe) 20 in the prone position supported, 10 prone unsupported, and 10 kneeling. 23 is the minimum to qual, as a marksman. not sure what sharpshooter is, might be about 28/29? but expert is shooting 36/40 targets. no night shooting, althought that would be interesting |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:54pm
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My last Rifle Qual was 217 Sharpshooter because I liked the way the badge looked over the Expert Badge in the Marines. The Sharpshooter not only sounded cooler it has a neat Iron Cross with an Marine EGA in it.
Thou I am a Pistol Expert. We used to call it the John Woo award. 
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Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 10:55pm
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I shot a penny from 1000 yards once
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 11:05pm
At least someone with a pizza box made it longer than two weeks. -------------
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Linus wrote:Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 11:17pm
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Because you're allowed to blouse your boots on T-5... -------------
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 11:43pm
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I have not understood a damn thing in this thread.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 11:44pm
You're a towel. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 23 January 2008 at 11:52pm
What's not to understand? -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 5:50am
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i'm still a pizza box. i have missed sharpshoot by just two points each time. i really need to work on my standing where i always get twos on qual day, and fours and fives on prequal.
yeah Marines revamped the whole thing. now we have four different parts. i dont know the three new ones, reserves dont do them all at once. we dont one part one year(lack of time with once a month drills).but i know it will involve nvg's oh and linus, pizza box isnt that bad. except i still have a pizza stain when i get dressed up to go along with the pizza box. |
Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 6:31am
Yeah it is pretty easy these days, I remember when i first heard the new rules...WTH? 2 weeks later the wife was the first one to get her crossed rifles But I qual'd under the old rules(by my count) but they check under the new ones. I lost most of my points on the serial with the gas-mask, god i hate that thing...when you have the balaclava on it fogs up like an old brass eeagle mask. And take it easy on those NSE guys, my wife was on that range with ya ( Cpl Robert, Fin clerk), and she hasn't touched a rilfe in over a year. Heck, she didn't even know there WAS a PWT 3 lol. And we did PWT 2 with night shoot, p rundown. And why are the marines shooting with service rifles from so fa away? most engagements in the new wars are at <200m anyways. We ain't fighting the russians on large grassy plains anymore... ------------- A second class drive is always better than a first class walk. |
Posted By: ShortyBP
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 6:49am
If anything, I (as an outsider, mind you) would think that long-range marksmanship is something to always teach and retain, regardless as to what present-day engagement distance is. Unless I am not looking at it the right way? So long as you also teach close-quarters... what detriment is there to strive for long-distance accuracy as well? Surely there are benefits... even if not put into use as often anymore compared to the past. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 7:35am
Yeah, we teach long and short range shooting. I left out the short range combat oriented section of the marksmanship qual because I don't know what is on it since they change it so often. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 8:23am
Doe she work in the FSG BOR? I think she's helped sort out my pay. Most of the troops shooting were pretty decent, but there were a few who made us nervous. I'm not blaming them- their training is at fault. It's not a comfortable spot for an ARSO to be in though. We actually have a PWT 4 now.  ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 8:54am
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Navy marksmanship works about the same way as Marines, except the ribbons/medals look different. Plus the Marine marksmanship test to get qualed is probably more difficult, I'd imagine. Scores are about the same for Marksman, Sharpshooter, and Expert. I qualed Sharpshooter in boot, but we only got training on the M9. So my ribbon is (I'm a bit colorblind so who knows, maybe I'm wrong) dark blue with gold trim on the left and right side with a Bronze "S".
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 11:52am
LOL @ BOOT! -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 12:58pm
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LOL TWO WEEKS
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 1:00pm
| so i'm army, and a cadet meaning no boot camp... so i think i'm missing something here...whats the significance of the pizza box reference? |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 1:03pm
A marksman badge looks like a pizza box. Something linus will never have.. -------------
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 1:16pm
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My brother told me he missed out on Expert on his last qual by one round. All of his shots were on target, except one. He swears he didn't miss and that he put a round through an existing hole, but it was counted as a miss since there wasn't a new mark on the paper. He did make his company's rifle team though. We got to spend some time at the NYPD shooting range so he could do some practicing. Shooting was the only thing I used to be better than him at....then he joined the army, and I haven't got anything on him.  |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 2:23pm
In the Fleet Marine Forces, specially the Grunts. Scoring a Marksman or Pizza Box badge is to be asked to be ridiculed everytime you wear any uniform where you have to wear your badges and ribbons. The Pizza Stain is what they call the National Defense Medal. Since it's awarded for being in Service durring war or times of Conflict. It's also called the 'Fire Watch Medal" since the only real duty recruits have is firewatch. To see a Marine whose salad bar, Stash (ribbon awards) consists of a Pizza Stain and a Pizza Box is the equivelant of a Marine Noob so Boot = Noob -------------
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 3:14pm
Funny, because my waiver is going through right now. Jeez, it's not like I was a P-recruit. -------------
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 3:35pm
In the AF we called it the "showed up for work" medal. ------------- 
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 3:36pm
I need a medal for showing up for work. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 3:37pm
You get to shoot civil war rifles... you win. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 4:48pm
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LOL TWO WEEKS!!!!!!!11111~!!!!11!111one!11!!! -------------
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Posted By: ANARCHY_SCOUT
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 6:10pm
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I once shot a pop can at 150 yards first shot with a .270 if that amounts to anything?
------------- Gamertag: Kataklysm999 
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Posted By: .357 Magnum
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 7:06pm
Not really... but Bravecoward shot a dime at 968 yards. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 7:11pm
hahaha thanks EE i appreciate it. i wnot be a boot much longer though! iraq is soon in my future! and next time i'll take them up on the offer to try again and qual another time to get a higher score.i opted out, because i over drilled for the year, and went home a day early 
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Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 9:23pm
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I don't understand why yanks get medals for EVER LITTLE thing. Up here we have to go on tour, get wounded, do something brave or heroic, or be a member of the order of canada to get a medal...
The rest we have plain old badges for....which sometimes count for more than some medals. Heck, if you have the Cyprus medal, may as well laugh at yourself before someone gets to you first. ------------- A second class drive is always better than a first class walk. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 9:32pm
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Army and Navy get medals for getting dressed in the morning, however the Corps doesn't. I have one medal and one badge and I have been in almost two years. There are three "gimmie" medals we have, National Defense, GWOT Campaign, and a Good Cookie. Everything else you have to earn. -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 5:47am
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well you only get global war on terror if you are a part of that mission. that could be being sent to okinawa in support of a phillipines operation, but good conduct is a given is you stay good for a few years. lots of Marines seem to have trouble with that haha. always doing something stupid. but national defense is the only true given medal.you get it for serving during a time of war.
thor, you still need to be wounded in the states to get the purple heart. and to get all the other medals, you do need to do something in a combat zone. EDIT: Air Force makes their own medals... http://www.chairforce.com/fun/humor/new-usaf-ribbons.htm - Air Force Medal Page |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 6:22am
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Kris, you get the GWOT Campaign basically as a gimmie. Most Marines get it after like 60 days of being in the fleet.
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 9:26am
| ^^^ haha not in the reserves. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 9:31am
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Thats cause the reserves isn't the fleet. -------------
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 9:49am
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Yeah but which branch can pee the farthest? Cause that is what this all sounds like. *Since gramps didn't seem to get it, this is not a slight. Twas a joke.  -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 9:53am
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Qualifying against pop-up shoot backs is a tad more difficult. And MBD, most people in the discussion are not like college types who can't compete because college types pee sitting down, but are expert typers.
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 9:57am
What are "college types?" And what does peeing and typing have to do with each other? So confused. -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:00am
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College type- The intellectual who does not understand the military bravado maindset.
Shooting skills little more complicated than typing skills, and the college mindset of writting about something will solve the problem. I thought you were edumacated so would understand the hidden attempt at humor from an "old guy". -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:01am
I'm halfway through an honours degree in criminology and I still pee standing up. Do I still count as a college type? ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:04am
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OS needs banned for trolling... ------------- 
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:05am
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Depends on your mindset.......... -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:07am
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Hey- MBD gets to thump on the military types having a discussion, a rebuttal was required- not trolling-
Bored between classes, getting another lesson in college types here at college......go figure........ Hey, I still pee standing up.....not contagious...... -------------
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:09am
You are indeed hilarious, but not in the way you think you are. You are the archetype for anti-intellectualism. It is good for a chuckle .-------------
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Posted By: Man Bites Dog
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:11am
I pointed out that the funny one-upping over medals from different branches was humorously like a virtual peeing contest. Sorry if I upset your sensitive aura. I know how easily offended you can get. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:13am
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LMAO I hope I never end up like OS... -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:15am
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Hey in the military it is a peeing contest, with all the chest thumping over anything, branch, medals, awards.....doesn't matter.
I am about as unsensitive on this as I can be.... Just a boring day so sticking the stick in the hornets nest to see how the hornets react. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:21am
Yup, us college types sure do suck at life... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 11:33am
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GB2CLASS
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 12:15pm
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I know Kris, Snake, and Evil can relate to this.
70 recruits, 5 toilets, 2 minutes. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 12:37pm
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Showertime was your favorite wasn't it?
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Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 3:52pm
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GTHO Linus.
And Bri, you are a college type ;) Besides, without the peeing contest, who would have to buy the first round? ------------- A second class drive is always better than a first class walk. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 4:41pm
The only thing OS has added to this discussion that I have to agree with. There are two types of special people on this forum; those whose comments are always taken the worst way and met with derision and those who are always given maximum benefit of the doubt and defended no matter what. Is it fair or right? No, but it's life, so everyone should get used to it. -------------
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 4:47pm
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Mack, not really. I'm in between... -------------
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 5:07pm
That's why I specified "special." The majority of the forum members are in the "in between" or normal status. I consider the special people (as explained in my previous post) to be few and far between. -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 6:46pm
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OS Motivates me. rahhhhhhh
brihard, arent you like a canadian military officer or something? soo you clearly arent college type. Snake, contrary to popular belief, the reserves are a type of fleet. we may not be activated as much as the active duty guys, but we each reserve battalion has been activated at least twice since 2001, with many being three times. many more than the mandate originally called for. also, the reserves initially were designed to replace active duty paper pushers and what not while they were deployed,but that has since expanded into training for combat as well, because we have combat MOS's. besides, arent you still in student status?
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 6:51pm
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I went to college and never got to shoot at anyone. My life = wasted. |
Posted By: Brian Fellows
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 6:53pm
He isn't an officer. At least, not a commissioned officer. And aren't military officers the "college type" anyway? |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 7:49pm
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Officers are college types, and live and command from "above the cloud", in thier own reality. If you do not understand the term "above the cloud" ask any long career non-commisioned officer. -------------
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Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 8:00pm
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I love you so much, OS, I really do. ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 8:03pm
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This is not my idea, this term, "above the cloud" has been around concerning US military officers since the Civil War.
"Privates take the hills, Generals get the medals" is also part of that essay. So I am not an original. Required reading in the Sergeants Major Academy. Also read on the "Private to General", communication chain. -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 11:43pm
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good old chesty wasnt like that though OS. Chesty started as a private, got all the way to LT General.
Guy is the man. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 11:46pm
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Goodnight Chesty Puller, wherever you are. -------------
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:00am
Gunery Sargent William Bodette, my SOI Instructor and most Bad Ass Marine that I ever had the honor to meet. 
Chesty Puller lives on in every generation of US Marine. -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:20am
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There allways is the exception to the rule, but few and far between. Read House to House, great book on the Iraq war, The Company Commander had the potential to be the exception, unfortuanately KIA, the Brigade Commander though was truely "above the cloud" leader. -------------
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:26am
oh where do i start? how about all the NCO's who go to OCS who know and have experience from the enlisted side? i know plenty, and the majority are not "above the clouds" i think you mean cadets, as in USMA, Annapolis, ROTC, etc. And not all of us are like that, some of us, not all (cadets) actually do listen to noncoms and don't get "above the cloud" |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:27am
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I remember just before going to boot I saw a series of images where a Marine was shot in Iraq, and another one went out to retrieve him and was also shot. I havn't been able to find the pics sense. -------------
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:35am
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As a leader you will find the the pressures on career, promotion and officer evauluations will corrupt many officers, usually once they get into the field grade range. In many the attitude is intentional in others it is not, but too many competing for too few slots create problems in the officer corps of any branch. Top Generals in the beginning of WW2 were replaced with up and coming junior officers, not effected by the disease. Eisenhower was a Major at the start of the war. NCO's are not as prone to the disease for the promotion pressures are not as intense within thier ranks.
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 2:24am
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I saw that pic sequence too linus... I remember hearing that the guy that 1st was injured lived, and the one that tried to get him ended up dying... |
Posted By: warman
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 5:37am
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Nobody cares what badge you earned on the qualification range. Just like nobody cares that you wear a combat patch on your uniform just because you were in Iraq(and never actually made it out of a fob)..........nevermind ------------- N is for nowledge |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 8:51am
Maybee you dont. everyone who is talking in this thread seems to. If you dont then why not skip it and go on to the next one? -------------
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 8:58am
You look so much cooler this way. Its SOP round here. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 10:36am
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Yes, it was. I don't think you should even be allowed to post in this thread. Delete all your posts immediately. (Oh well, I never got to shoot anybody either.)
I've met those officers but had the great fortune that the majority of the ones I worked for were not that type at all. Of course, since there are limited promotion opportunities for USAF security forces officers anyway, most of the officers we get are the ones who are there because they want to do it more than they care about their careers. I also several outstanding officers get their careers ruined because they wouldn't play "the game" as required. (People who backed their troops when they were right no matter what level of the chain of command it pissed off.) -------------
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 10:42am
Especially since part of what I do is so bass-ackwards, we get recognition for SAVING people, not our ability to kill them. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 10:58am
No way! -------------
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:00am
Talk about counter-productive. Man, I thought you knew how to shoot rifles too... -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:11am
Actually, many of us are somewhat interested in each others' military careers and accomplishments. I'm probably not the only one who doesn't even know who you are, so you're a bit presumptuous in trying to speak for everyone else. Sounds like you have a wee bit of a chip on your shoulder... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:20am
Probably harbors a grudge against anyone in uniform because he couldn't hack it in cub scouts. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:14pm
Nah, his reference to 'never made it out of the fob' makes me think he's almost definitely military- army or marines. He's either been in combat, and sees anyone who hasn't been with scorn, or he resents that he has not been to Iraq and so many others have. I'd bet pretty solidly that its one of those two. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:54pm
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Talk about butthurt. Time for some CoD4. -------------
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Posted By: Kristofer
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 2:31pm
best way to get combat experience bar none
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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 3:27pm
lol Well I did the towel trick last night so i have like 5 days left. I am going to make them last. -------------
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