Wine Class
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Topic: Wine Class
Posted By: Dye Playa
Subject: Wine Class
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:14pm
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Today at work my boss had a wine guy come in to teach the waiters the proper way to serve wine, how to recommend it, and the general procedure of drinking it in a restaurant. It was pretty interesting and lasted for a solid 45 minutes to an hour. It's pretty crazy, and is really like a science. He was explaining the reactions of different regions of the "palette" (taste bud groups on your tongue), how the rocks and minerals in the dirt affect the taste of the grapes, how the different barrel's affect the wine and release tannins that carry bitterness, how different bottles and different glasses "open up the wine" by releasing oxygen, all sorts of crazy stuff you wouldn't even consider. He also explained the various "bodies" of wine, which is the density and feel of it in your mouth, along with dryness and sweetness. Obviously because it was in a restaurant he taught us exactly which wines were meant for what foods, so we could give an educated recommendation to anyone who asked, and it goes a lot deeper than "red for beef white for fish/chicken", but that did tend to remain true as a general rule. He also gave us a break down on the proper etiquette to open and serve bottles (which is pretty hard to open the aluminum wrapper and **pull**, not pop the cork, while standing up without anything to place it on. But oddly enough, your never supposed to fill the glass more than about 1/3 full. You start with the person who bought the bottle, give them about a shot (1.5 oz) and wait for their response before filling it to about where the bulge in the middle begins, then go around and fill everyone else to the same spot. Besides the pretty cool information, we got to try about 8 bottles of $60-$100 wine. This was also sort of in time for the other wine post. TL;DR: I got to go to a free class to taste expensive wine, learn the differences in each, and the proper way to serve it. Everyone seemed pretty interested, so here's some scanned pages of an info packet he gave us: http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6929/001ll0.jpg - http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6929/001ll0.jpg http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6051/002gl4.jpg - http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6051/002gl4.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9915/003uj6.jpg - http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9915/003uj6.jpg ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:16pm
| Damn dude that's sweet. Valuable life lessons. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:17pm
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I went to a restaurant called Boston's Yesterday. Each entree had a little colored glass next to it. There was a key on the side of the menu telling which color meant which wine. Thought this almost was on topic. ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:19pm
If that was sarcastic, whatever. It was really interesting, it's cool information to know, and I got paid to do it. -------------
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choopie911 wrote:Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:22pm
I wasn't sure if it would come off as sarcastic, but it wasn't supposed to. Wine-smarts is a handy thing to have. I'm totally lacking in that department, I need to step it up. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:27pm
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It's pretty cool but unfortunately, you probably won't apply too much of it.
If you enjoyed it that much, consider taking a wine tasting course. Just don't cheap out. |
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:32pm
Sorry then, I thought is was sarcastic at first. And Carl, your kind of wrong on that one since I am a waiter, so I will be applying most of it. And Choop, your right; wine smarts definitely is handy. You can look real classy giving advice or tying a meal together with the right wine- Not so much with girls my age, but older girls  .-------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:33pm
Sure you will. Even at my age I wish I knew my stuff about wine, as most people I know are wine drinkers. We'll have our friends down the hall over with wine, etc. |
Posted By: Cedric
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:35pm
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Remember when I took that wine tasting course and forgot how to drive?
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:38pm
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Did he teach you to roll the bottle while finishing a pour to keep the wine from dropping onto the guest/table? Also, if you serve champagne or sparkling wine, it is beneficial to "prime" the glasses with a small (1oz) bit of champagne before filling all the way to keep the carbonation from escaping as rapidly. And of course, always present the cork to the person who ordered the wine. While 90% of the people out there don't really know what to do with it, the other 10% will inspect it to ensure that the cork is still soft and supple, not dry and crumbly, which would be an indication of whether the wine had oxidized in the bottle during storage.
Glad to see that they're teaching you and your fellow staff how to properly serve a bottle of wine. I constantly have to re-educate our service staff on the proper steps. Also, remember that a "standard" pour for wine is approximately 5oz. A 750ml bottle of wine has approximately 24.5oz in it meaning that you should get 5 standard pours from a bottle. For larger parties, you should always suggest a second bottle or a magnum (should you stock magnums) to ensure each guest is given a full share. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:41pm
| A lot of the theroy behind wine drinking will probably not be used is what I meant. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:47pm
I dunno. After my education, I've found it is far easier to appreciate a good glass of wine (what is 'good' depends on the situation) than before. Prior to understanding the effects of malo-lactic fermentation, the way oak or stainless affects a finish, and how the terroir (the soil, water, and other effect of the growing environment) lends so much to the finished product, it was all just wet, alcohol-y, and good with dinner. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:49pm
Although that is sort of common knowledge to twist the bottle to finish the pour, he did reiterate that point. Yup, drop the cork to the right side of the glass of whoever buys the bottle. Yea, that was what everyone was sort of surprised about, how the glass isn't even half full, and our guy said 1/3, but a 1/5 is pretty much the same. He said this is to prevent them from thinking you are trying to gouge them, because since the average bottle has about 4 glasses in it, if you go around filling everyone to the brim, the bottle is going to be empty after you get around the table, and it's going to sound bad when your asking if they would like a second before anyone even took a sip yet. The biggest thing he kept saying though was to keep the label facing the host, the guy who bought the bottle. The only time it can be away from him is when you are cutting the wrapper, but every time besides that it should be facing him. -------------
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Posted By: jerseypaint
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:51pm
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I have no clue which wine to recommend, but I can open them up on the fly. Pouring I kind of lack in due to I'm not allowed to, but I can. The whole spinning the bottle trick is a little hard as well. ------------- 
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:53pm
I meant more towards his job than personal enjoyment. I still don't believe that the shape of the wine glass has any effect on the taste. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:56pm
Wine in a narrow, narrow glass will taste different than in a shallow but wide one. |
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 11:01pm
Well, according to this guy you don't want to keep an old old wine in the bottle once it is ordered. The older wine takes more time to open up it's flavor, so it need oxygen. The tight neck of a bottle doesn't allow for that flow, so instead of keeping such a wine in the bottle while the people are waiting for food, you pour it into this thing (it starts with a d, i forgot the term though) that increases the oxygen flow so instead of taking 45 minutes for an old wine to open, it may take like 10-15. I don't think the bottle has an affect on the taste while in storage, but directly after opening, the container's shape (even glasses) do have an affect. And now that I think about it, it's true. Ever taken a sip out of a brand new never opened bottle right after you pop the cork? It's bitter, but it eases up after a little bit in your glass or in the bottle. -------------
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 11:03pm
I know that is said but I just don't believe it. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 11:05pm
Why? Letting wine breathe changes how it tastes. Narrower glass = less exposed to air. Wide glass = more exposed to air...it breathes more, and more quickly. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 11:34pm
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Posted By: NotDaveEllis
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 11:55pm
Decanter? |
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:06am
Yup, that's it. -------------
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:58am
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carl, i've experienced it. i have a friend who loves good red wine. he opened a bottle, tried a bit, while letting the rest breathe in a decanter, the difference 30-45 minutes made was definitely there. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:33am
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Cool stuff.
My friend's family owns a vineyard. I pride myself on having at least a bit more knowledge of wine than the average person, comes in handy. Makes box wine that much more gross, though. |
Posted By: Dye Playa
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:50pm
I won't even drink that stuff, box wine FTL. Worst hangover you can possibly experience lol. -------------
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:52pm
you guys think box wine is bad... it's about $6 for a jug. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:56pm
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/\
Classy. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:58pm
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hey man, when you're on a budget, and need some wine for the local, weekly jazz in the park festival, you can always count on carlo. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:55pm
Also, the one time I drank box wine, I had no hangover at all. 
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Posted By: The Guy
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:38pm
| Just remember one thing about pouring wine. Never touch the bottle to the glass. By pouring higher up, it allows the wine to pick up more air as it enters the glass. |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 6:42pm
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Just a deck of cards and a jug of wine And a woman's lies makes a life like mine -------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: TheSpookyKids87
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 7:12pm
| There is recent research that shows the tounge palate does not exist. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 1:26pm
Citation? Otherwise I call shens. Carl, as for different glasses affecting how a wine tastes, it is very much true. Champagne in a "tulip" glass rather than a "flute" will taste flat and have far more chalky elements (Note I said champagne, not 'sparkling wine') The whole point of Champagne is the bubbles and how the affect the palate. If you pour into a tulip (flat, wide glass like you find at cheap wedding halls) the carbonation escapes more readily and the wine warms up much more quickly. That causes the heavier flavors of the champagne to come forward, something that defeats the purpose of having a crisp, clean, bubbly wine to start with. The same can be said for white wine glasses. Nothing pisses me off more than a restaurant that uses the same glasses for both white and red wines. White wine glasses have a much tighter bowl which results in less surface area allowing the wine to stay cooler longer. The exact opposite is what you want with a red-wine glass. You want a vast surface area to allow the wine to have more access to oxygen and to allow it to warm to the atmosphere around it since it has been kept in a climate controlled room (preferably) until that point. Also, if you note, good wine and champagne glasses/flutes bevel at the bottom 1/3 of the glass and then come back towards the center at the top. This gathers the bouquet of the wine/champagne and brings it to a concentration at the lip/rim of the glass giving you a much fuller sense of the smells coming from the glass. Remember, taste relies heavily on smell. Gathering those scents at the point where you take a sip will give you a much fuller experience than if you were to pour into a straight or wide-mouthed glass. Finally, more than just old reds can benefit from decanting. Relatively 'new' wines (Beaujoulais Neuveaux for example) benefit greatly as their lack of aging can be offset by proper aeration. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 3:49pm
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I know how it is said to work but I have never noticed any difference myself.
old wine>new wine |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 3:53pm
You probably wouldn't notice the difference between lots of things, it doesn't mean it's not there. Audiophiles will notice things you never would when comparing headphones or speakers. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 4:12pm
I am fairly learnid of wine coming from a family of wine drinkers. My dad swears there is a difference but I doubt it is that much to the extent of buying a whole set of brand new glasses. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 4:19pm
Again, you may not see the need to buy new headphones, because it wont make much of a difference to you, but to some people it certainly will. |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 7:02pm
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That is actually really popular with kids over here. I did a wine tasting for my new job last night. I've never been able to drink wine but i was surprised to find a couple that i liked. |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 11:02pm
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Here it's popular with homeless people.
------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 11:53am
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Carl, I'm not trying to be condescending here, but being 'learned' in wine is far more involved than just coming from a family of wine drinkers. I spent 2 straight months sitting in wines lectures and tastings for 8 hours a day my Sophomore year in college. I then spent another full month doing nothing but studying at various California wineries my Senior year. I think I know more than your dad does on this particular subject.
Also, my instructors were the following people: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Steven%20Kolpan&page=1 - Steven Kolpan and http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=5386227 - Micheal A. Weiss ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 5:24pm
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By kids I mean like 15-16 year olds. It's cheap and gets them hammered can't blame them. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 5:47pm
Yeah, but White Thistle is cheap and will get you hammered if you drink enough of it as well. Heh, reminds me of the fact that my first true hangover was a result of Jock Tamson's 50p/pint 'white thistle' nights back in '98. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 6:15pm
My dad agrees with what you said if you had of read what I said. My dad has been member of a wine tasting group for like 20 years, and has taken more courses in it than I can count on both my hands. I would be willing to bet that he knows more about it than you do. Also, I am assuming that calafornia wine is better than California fruit (excluding grapes I suppose) right? California fruit is such tasteless crap. |