Here is a link for the single J&J.  They are normally 30ish for the single and up to 100 for a full kit.

http://www.paintball-discounters.com/get_item_150100par_j-j-ceramic-barrel.htm - http://www.paintball-discounters.com/get_item_150100par_j-j- ceramic-barrel.htm

If a barrel attaches to a specific paintball gun, which is made to fire and operate using a specific sized paint logic would dictate that the barrel for the marker is also made to use the same sized paint (otherwise the product would not work, or be effective in its use).

thejudge wrote: Here is a link for the single J&J.  They are normally 30ish for the single and up to 100 for a full kit. http://www.paintball-discounters.com/get_item_150100par_j-j-ceramic-barrel.htm - http://www.paintball-discounters.com/get_item_150100par_j-j- ceramic-barrel.htm

You can get the J & J Edge kit for le$$ than that here:    http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=_LmnlNTGwMCnr5MUURZnPN4PdQhEXOAaZxg=?ProductID=eSKsFAY7YZ0AAAD7oyEwXFDu - http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/S tore/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=_LmnlNTGwM Cnr5MUURZnPN4PdQhEXOAaZxg=?ProductID=eSKsFAY7YZ0AAAD7oyEwXFD u

longstar wrote: no i mean will the barrel take the paint

Take the paint where? 

As for the pack, it is up to you. If you want a remote, go for it. You do not need one.

Still, wouldn't it be better to add 100 feet to your range as opposed to maybe getting a couple of inches in accuracy?

Greeg wrote: Still, wouldn't it be better to add 100 feet to your range as opposed to maybe getting a couple of inches in accuracy?

No, the flatline and apex barrels increase the range of the paintball, but decrease the accuracy. So you can shoot farther,... but you are less likely to make contact with someone using a flatline or apex barrel than using an accurate barrel or barrel kit.

Additionally due to the longer flight time of the paintball when you do hit someone, the paintball will be moving at a slower velocity. Thereby making the likely hood of a long distant shot (which is the entire purpose of an apex or flatline barrel) actually breaking less than shooting within the range of a standard paintball barrel.

The flatline and Apex barrel's only advantage of increased range is useless in speedball games or small fields since all players start within range of one another. On larger, woodsball/ scenario oriented fields there is usually brush, trees, and structures that obscure any long distance shots. This means that even though you might have a marker capable of longer range shots than other players, the terrain will generally prevent you from shooting that far.

So it comes down to which set up is better...

A barrel that is accurate, and within the usual spectrum of paintball ranges, or a barrel that shoots farther, but is less accurate, has less of a chance of a hit breaking, and can only have its advantage be used in very specific field conditions... I think the standard barrel or barrel kit wins.

Commander_Cool wrote: ... a long distant shot (which is the entire purpose of an apex or flatline barrel)

Not at all.

I have and love a Flatline (two, actually) and an Apex, and I play fairly aggressively.  I hardly ever longball.

The main REAL benefit of the Flatline is not the added distance, but the flat trajectory.  Point and shoot.  No vertical adjustment.  No worrying about whether your trajectory has a clean path through the trees.  If you can see it, you can shoot it.

This is HUGE in the woods, due to shrubbery and trees.  With a straight barrel you always have to pray that your balls will somehow curve between the leaves.  With the Flatline you don't have that worry.  With the Flatline you can also shoot UNDER bushes along the ground - impossible with a straight barrel.

Even for speedball this is an advantage.  When engaging multiple targets at different ranges with a Flatline, you don't have to adjust for the distance difference.  This makes it easier to hit your targets when your snap-shooting skills are not good enough to immediately make the adjustment (which is most of us).

I have played with Flatlines in the woods and in up-close speedball, and it works well in both cases.  True - if you clamp down your gun next to a Freak, the Freak will usually have better groupings, but I don't shoot my guns clamped down.

Same goes for the Apex.  Its main purpose is not distance, but versatility.  It suffers against the Flatline in terms of flat trajectory, but gains the advantage of intentionally curving shots.  This takes some practice to do well, but can be truly devastating both in the woods and on the speedball field.

To write off the Flatline and Apex as longball barrels is incorrect.

Rambino wrote: Commander_Cool wrote: ... a long distant shot (which is the entire purpose of an apex or flatline barrel) Not at all. I have and love a Flatline (two, actually) and an Apex, and I play fairly aggressively.  I hardly ever longball. that is your personal style... it does nothing to negate the fact that the major selling point of the flatline is its increased range over other barrels. The main REAL benefit of the Flatline is not the added distance, but the flat trajectory.  Point and shoot.  No vertical adjustment.  No worrying about whether your trajectory has a clean path through the trees.  If you can see it, you can shoot it. This is HUGE in the woods, due to shrubbery and trees.  With a straight barrel you always have to pray that your balls will somehow curve between the leaves.  With the Flatline you don't have that worry.  With the Flatline you can also shoot UNDER bushes along the ground - impossible with a straight barrel. Even for speedball this is an advantage.  When engaging multiple targets at different ranges with a Flatline, you don't have to adjust for the distance difference.  This makes it easier to hit your targets when your snap-shooting skills are not good enough to immediately make the adjustment (which is most of us). I have played with Flatlines in the woods and in up-close speedball, and it works well in both cases.  True - if you clamp down your gun next to a Freak, the Freak will usually have better groupings, but I don't shoot my guns clamped down. Same goes for the Apex.  Its main purpose is not distance, but versatility.  It suffers against the Flatline in terms of flat trajectory, but gains the advantage of intentionally curving shots.  This takes some practice to do well, but can be truly devastating both in the woods and on the speedball field. To write off the Flatline and Apex as longball barrels is incorrect.

...and as you stated other barrels are more accurate, using the flatline is a matter of preference. Anyone that is used to their gear can shoot just as accurately with another barrel that does not "offer flat trajectory", actually they can probbaly do it more accurately since the barrel naturally groups the shots closer together.

Correct me if I am wrong as I have never used an apex... but don't you have to adjust your barrel to get it to curve shots... which not only takes some time in  a game, but will also effect the accuracy... and therefore isn't the wisest/ safest thing to do either?

My intent is not to attack the flatline or apex barrels, but if a new player is askign what to get,... and its between an equally as good 50 dollar barrel, or a 100 dollar barrel that is 70% gimmick,... well I am going to suggest the 50 dollar barrel.

Mack wrote: Commander_Cool wrote: Additionally due to the longer flight time of the paintball when you do hit someone, the paintball will be moving at a slower velocity. Thereby making the likely hood of a long distant shot (which is the entire purpose of an apex or flatline barrel) actually breaking less than shooting within the range of a standard paintball barrel. Incorrect.  The spin imparted to the ball from the F/L or Apex creates a boundary layer of turbulent air around the ball.  This layer reduces drag and produces the lift which together result in the straight trajectory.  A side effect of this reduction in drag is that the balls from the backspin barrel do maintain velocity at least as well as, and in some cases better (dependent upon velocity/rpms) than balls from a regular barrel.  However, when these shots do lose their remaining velocity they tend to do so rapidly. For further information on this I suggest searching the terms "Bernoulli Effect" and "Reynolds Number."

I vaguely know the principles,... I will rephrase my point to make it accurate.

Most people who buy a flatline think that is is a highly accurate barrel that offers long range shots. Many people long ball with a flatline because they feel they can make shots farther away, however longer shots are more difficult to make, and with many people firing near, to outside the effective range of the flatline barrel the hits they do have, are likely to bounce.

While that is true with every barrel, the selling point of the flatline barrel is its "amazing range", but if it is harder to eliminate players at greater ranges, it is a better investment to buy an accurate barrel or barrel kit, and play agressively,... garunteeing you eliminations at much closer rangers.

I personally do not feel the infrequent opportunities to use its increased range justify the price, and that the reasoning of buying the marker (increasing your range) encourages players to longball, and camp during gameplay.

As stated previously I feel that the increased range of the flatline barrel is a gimmick, as the increased range is rarely an asset on fields where players start within range of one another, or shrubs, trees, and structures prevent people from firing outside the effective range of a standard paintball barrel; let alone have open space in which the flatline barrel is an asset. For those situations in which it might be useful, using cover and playing aggressively are much more effective at eliminating players than the increased range the flatline barrel offers.

I can't speak to the "selling point" of the Apex/Flatline.  I can only speak to the benefits.  The situations where the extended range is a significant benefit arise only rarely - the situations where the trajectory/curve is a benefit arise quite regularly.

Marketing aside, the main real-world benefits of these barrels has little to do with long-balling (although it is fun to rain down 15bps on a guy who thought he was out of range).

Commander_Cool wrote: ...and as you stated other barrels are more accurate, using the flatline is a matter of preference. Anyone that is used to their gear can shoot just as accurately with another barrel that does not "offer flat trajectory", actually they can probbaly do it more accurately since the barrel naturally groups the shots closer together.

Certainly true, under good circumstances.  I would not expect experienced speedballers to be interested in these barrels.  In the woods, however, the ability to shoot through brush is a really big deal.

Correct me if I am wrong as I have never used an apex... but don't you have to adjust your barrel to get it to curve shots... which not only takes some time in  a game, but will also effect the accuracy... and therefore isn't the wisest/ safest thing to do either?

You do have to adjust, but it isn't a big deal.  If you normally keep the barrel on a middle "flatline" setting, it takes about 1 second to switch it to a side curve or dive-bomb.  And since you are now shooting at your opponent from an unexpected direction you will have plenty of time to walk your shot in.  The Apex is a real game-changer in those stalemates where you and your opponents have each other pinned down but can't get a clean shot.  It does take some getting used to, but it is well worth the effort.

My intent is not to attack the flatline or apex barrels, but if a new player is askign what to get,... and its between an equally as good 50 dollar barrel, or a 100 dollar barrel that is 70% gimmick,... well I am going to suggest the 50 dollar barrel.

I will normally also suggest the straight barrel, just for simplicity - but these barrels are not "70% gimmick".  Not at all.  They offer significant benefits for the experienced player, and for the rookie a Flatline can be very nice and easy - no need to do ball/barrel matching, just point and shoot. 

Remember, to get that good kit accuracy you have to have a good match - the Flatline doesn't care about match.  The Flatline is much more forgiving with paint - you just play.  This also can be significant, particularly if the field paint is iffy.  With my Freak, I can get good ball-on-ball accuracy only with a good match.  If the paint is irregular I will get bad accuracy and barrel breaks.  With the Flatline I will get the same accuracy and still no barrel breaks. 

The Flatline and Apex are not for everybody, but they are also very misunderstood and incorrectly maligned by those that do not understand them.