american cadidiot UPDATE
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Topic: american cadidiot UPDATE
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Subject: american cadidiot UPDATE
Date Posted: 17 April 2008 at 10:36pm
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so i'm leaving for fort Dix tomorrow afternoon for a weekend exercise with my ROTC Battalion where we'll be qualifying on M-16's. So today in lab they showed us how to mechanically zero a weapon when an E-7 walks in and says "don't worry about zeroing the weapon after you get your first few groupings, we'll do it for you". this is the reason people don't like cadets...we get our hands held and then we get to a unit and don't know what to do...not that it's particularly difficult to zero a weapon, just an example. will post results monday. |
Replies:
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 17 April 2008 at 11:27pm
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Um, you have to constantly readjust the zero on your weapon for different ranges, wind and whenever you weapons. Your zero changes slightly from day to day. "well zero it for you" is one of the stupidest things I have heard. Its what I would expect from the Army though...
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Posted By: notom66866
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 12:04am
| I was a cadet too. Thats where I learned to shoot. Its to bad about the " don't worry mommy will take care of everthing" attitide, your instructors seem to have. When I was in cadets it was very hands on, we were encouraged to learn how to do everything for ourselves. How in the hell are you going to learn to shoot if they don't let you adjust your sights yourself? |
Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 12:12am
Never had someone baby me in the Marines. Might be why we get the respect. ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Snake6 wrote:Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 12:31am
| yeah, they told us not to worry about wind either. |
Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 12:32am
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Then I'm hoping they're putting you in an indoor shooting range.
------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 12:34am
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guns are so overrated.
------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 3:01am
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Every soldier should be capable of zeroing his/her own weapon. Realistically, with iron sights, zero it for 200 and for anything farther than that you're aiming off. You don't have time to adjust your sights in combat, and it's not difficult to learn to compensate for bullet drop. Wind, you should be aiming off anyway. You just don't have time to frig with the sights when it counts, and wind won't do much to a 5.56 out to 300m+. That's the only good thing our optics have going for them- preset adjustments for every 100 metres range; once it's sighted in at 200 you're good to go out to 5 or 600 just by twisting a dial to presets on the sight. But I desperately want an EOTech with ballistic reticule... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 10:14am
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They will "zero it for you", Hmm. I find that hard to accept. Everyone is going to have different eye relief, cheek weld, trigger pull, etc.etc.etc. and then there is the fact that the more you shoot the weapon, the more gliding metal and fouling builds in the lands and grooves of the barrel. this will change the strike of the round. as well as temperature, humidity, light conditions. "Wind won't do much to a 5.56 out at 300"?? maybe at an indoor range. I have seen the bullet trajectory change at 200yds with a 3-4 mile an hour breeze. Do your self a favor, go an buy some Shooters Choice or Hoppe's 9, 2x's .223 barrel brushes and scrub down the barrel if you get the chance to do so before they "zero" it for you. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 10:49am
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What is this, amateur hour?!
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 11:58am
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Nope. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 12:44pm
I said wind won't do MUCH at that range to a 5.56. Trajectory will be affected by pretty much everything, but 'windage' on an iron sight is a misnomer. Sure, if you're firing static in a competition you can use a good set of sights to adjust for a steady wind, but you won't adjust your sights for wind on a combat rifle. I've shot 5.56 in both contexts, and unless it's very strong, the wind is a pain in the ass as opposed to being a real problem. As for NCOs doing the sights for the troops, I believe what he means by that is that he would fire a grouping and then the NCOs would simply do the adjustment to the sight. With new shooters, as an instructor, I've always found it best to adjust the sights yourself off their groups until they're comfortable enough with shooting to start doing it themself- otherwise they're apt to 'chase their errors' in their sight adjustment. I could understand why an ROTC class that's not used the weapon before would have it done this way. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 1:21pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 2:22pm
| Yeah if you guys are new to shooting they might not even zero at all. At the early stages its all about technique. the results are the same and make no difference to the coach. A good grouping is a good grouping regardless. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 2:26pm
Zeroing the weapon between groups to allow the shooter to actually hit where they're aiming is a big confidence booster for the shooter. Plus, a new shooter may not have very good groups, and not having the weapon zeroed could have shots going off paper. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 2:40pm
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Obviously if the shots are consistently off paper then an adjustment is needed. The way i was taught and how I coach is to get the shooter to shoot groups exclusively to gain the consistency they need. Once they are at a decent standard then try to move there groups onto the bull. All im trying to say is that if He's new to shooting the rifle doesnt have to be zeroed to have a worthwhile practice. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 3:39pm
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Battle sight zero. 0 to 200yds. Kentucky windage for all adjustments. Bri, what kind of qualification course do you use in Canada? What are the distances? ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 3:39pm
Explains grass week.  ------------- 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 3:47pm
For the combat arms, we shoot the Personal Weapons Test level 3. Various positions from 100m, 200m, and 300m. The culmination is the 'rundown'. We start at the 400m mark, target comes up, we have a certain amount of time to run to 300m, drop prone, engage with a given number of rounds. Then 200, then 100, with the position getting less steady as you advance downrange- prone, kneeling, standing. Once you hit 100, you continue to advance to the 75, 50, and 25 with quick snap-shoot double tap exposures, and then at 25 you use your last 6 rounds with two bursts of automatic. It's a fun range. We have a newer PWT level 4, which is all close quarters instinctive shooting from 7 meters to 25 meters. This is where you do emergency stoppage drills, emergency reloads, turning and shooting, walking, turning, and shooting, shooting while walking forward, armour drills (2 in the chest 1 in the head) all that good stuff. The PWT4 is being shot by most deploying personnel and by members of units with qualified small arms instructors who can do the CQB package- something that's becoming more predominant, thankfully. We use optics on our rifles, but many of us have eschewed them for irons or reflex sights. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 3:57pm
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That sounds like an intense course. Run down sounds similiar to what we called the combat tranisition course, run, squat shoot, run stand shoot, starting at 500 yards and then running and stopping every hundred yards to shoot. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 4:00pm
The main point of the rundown is to get the heart rate and respiration up... The PWT 4 is where it's at these days- now THAT is a fun range. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 4:09pm
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ever have to do it with MOPP gear on? ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 5:52pm
I haven't, personally. We don't do CRBN stuff much anymore with our current threat focus being Afghanistan. We're retaining the kit and the capability, but it's not nearly the focus it was during the cold war. We actually have new MOPP suits coming out that are much, much better than the old ones. http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1107/topstories/story20e.htm - linky ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 9:05pm
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Hey, Fort Dix isn't that far from me. Enjoy the cawfee and dawgs in NJ. Gets annoying as hell after a while. ------------- 
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Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 9:21pm
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heh.. you said dix.
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 10:15pm
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What that Sargent First Class meant was that the Unit who probally owns the Rifles will flush out the zeros that the last Dude who had that rifle issued to him. By "flushing the sights" meants that his "BZO" wont be affected by the last dude. Cadets being dumber than butter bar LT's require much hand holding. GI Joe if you wanted to be treated like a man Should had Joined the Marines.
Thou the most Pampered officers are in the Navy. While on ship I worked the Wardroom the Officer's mess. They dont even pick up their plates after eating. ------------- 
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 5:42pm
so...the weekend was interesting, did some land navigation and basic marksmanship. they claimed i wasn't zeroed but i hit 25/40 first time on a military pop up range, so i must've been alright with it. Past that, did patrolling, set up a mini FOB and basically got the juniors prepared for advanced camp this summer...also did the obstacle course, that was a hell of a good time, we have one of the same ones as USMC, the tough one i think it's called with the rope up to the bar, walk across posts, up a ladder and down a cargo net. that was definitely awesome. |
dangerous themselves, WITHOUT weapons. for the most part though we pick up on stuff quick.Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 6:17pm
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25/40? Thats horrible. -------------
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 6:21pm
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yeah i know, but it was my first time firing an M16 and my first time on a range with pop up targets and limited time to engage the target, although oddly enough i hit more of the 300 meter targets than i did the 50 or 100 meter target, but that was a half of a head that popped up. someone i know was mentioning a place that has a pop up range like that so i'm going to look into that to go to once in a while instead of just doing it once a year for rotc. on a side note, the LTC got 29/40, but he's ROAD so it doesn't make a big difference. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 8:21pm
Hm, if you hit more at long range and you weren't zeroed, possibly you were firing high... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 9:22pm
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^^^ My guess was going to be not focusing properly on the front sight post.
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 11:03am
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GI you should have PM'd me. We could have met up at Calverton to get you snapped in and ready. Maybe next time. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 12:17pm
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bri- they "claimed" i wasn't zeroed but i was, and i have the score sheet to have proven them wrong from that day at the zeroing range but they just didn't care. i have always shot high, it's a problem i've got that i have to work on. cees- do they have a pop up range out there or is it just a regular range? |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 12:24pm
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regular range, I have a friend with some pop ups we could use there. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |