NOW it’s time for controversy.
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Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=175454
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Topic: NOW it’s time for controversy.
Posted By: choopie911
Subject: NOW it’s time for controversy.
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:59am
Time for a truly controversial thread. Have at it:
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Replies:
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:22am
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In retrospect that "moon bush" site was pretty shocking and clever ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 7:42am
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This is no better than the other "controversial" thread.
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Posted By: xXK1CK1NVV1NGXx
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 7:48am
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Meh.
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 8:41am
| If we got to that point there would be nothing left of Dubai to ruin fro. |
Posted By: techietaichi
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 8:42am
 ------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZWhJCF6Ig"> 
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Posted By: Roll Tide
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:04am
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Canada is too close. It would more correct if they invaded Venezuela.
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Posted By: sinisterNorth
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:13am
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I'm not going to lie, I laughed a little.
------------- Pumpker'd; (V.) When a pump player runs up and shoots you at point blank range because you thought 20bps made you good. |
Posted By: Ozwarg
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:58am
damn, how did they figure my plot out. 
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 10:53am
| its only not funny because you're canadian. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:18am
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Canadians suck at 9/11. ------------- 
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Posted By: sporx
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 2:40pm
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sinisterNorth wrote:Posted By: MT. Vigilante
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 2:53pm
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Agreed. This thread and choopie fails :( -------------  Join the XP Re-Revolution!
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Posted By: Boss_DJ
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 3:31pm
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 3:48pm
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Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 3:48pm
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http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 3:49pm
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The Canadians should show a little back bone
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:04pm
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Chewp, what's with you and these threads lately?
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:08pm
| Yeah Chewp, these colors don't run! |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:16pm
What threads? I saw the picture and figured this forum would be able to grasp the comparison and maybe have a discussion about it. It's the type of topic that usually gets good debates going. Guess not. |
Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:21pm
9/11 is not funny. My friends uncles sisters friends cousins mother knew someone who died in the tower. It still haunts me to this day, she died a hero!
France's flag is also red white and blue. I take it they don't run either ------------- |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:26pm
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uncles sister= Aunt?
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Posted By: notXXscared
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:30pm
You don't know anyone because your probably from western bumble  . For people that actually do know someone who died, it sucks and pisses me off. I'm not for the war, but talking bad about the people who died in the towers is pretty lame.------------- 
Previously DYE PLAYA |
Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:32pm
They were just in the wrong place and the wrong time. Yanks are so soft when it comes to 9/11 ------------- |
Posted By: Boss_DJ
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:35pm
its really not fair that people like you exist in the world...theres children diagnosed with leukemia every day...its not fair -------------
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:37pm
You must be sooo cool to mock people who died as a result of terrorism!  -------------
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Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:38pm
I'm going live for ever if the good die young. ------------- |
Posted By: MT. Vigilante
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:20pm
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Its So easy for somone who wasn't there to talk about it like that. I don't care where you are from, what kind of background you had, how tough you are or how much you think you are a badass. You couldn't possibly imagine how terrible it was, I saw grown men who had fought in vietnam and the first gulf war cry like childeren that day, I cried. I will never forget how that day felt, and I will always hold those who mock the events of that day, and those who died that day, at the lowest level of humanity. I know what I am fighting for, and no one can ever change that.
------------- Join the XP Re-Revolution!
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:27pm
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I'm sorry but it nothing horrible is funny until a period of 22.3 years has passed.
.636. is just being an idiot guys. Don't feed the troll. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:28pm
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Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and declare Andy the winner of this thread. Keep it up, guys. ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: .357 Magnum
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:40pm
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Not cool.
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:54pm
------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: BooksAndLeaves
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:56pm
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I hate all of you. You're all idiots. You're opinions don't matter.
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:57pm
I think he was trying to stir a debate because he said he was. I'm surprised it didn't... ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 7:36pm
Terrorism? It's just a cleverly crafted scare tactic. Edit; the word, terrorism. ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 8:50pm
Yeah, I am. I'm not trying to anger anyone, or outright offend anyone with the thread, but as many of us have said before; this forum is chock full of strong opinions and ideas. Some of the more interesting threads are when people butt heads on something, rather than just "post your computer mouse" or something. I'm not trying to change the forum, merely get an interesting discussion going, and I don't see what's wrong with that. |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 8:53pm
Drinks like a soda... KICKS LIKE AN ENERGY DRINK  ------------- 
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Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:43pm
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Chewp, I'll bite. My father served in the first Gulf War, as well as the Kuwaiti Liberation. My brother served a tour of duty in Afghanistan last year, just graduated Ranger school as of May 5th, and leaves for his second tour later this month. All I've known is the military life, so I feel like I've got somewhat of a valid opinion. I'll leave all military things out of it though, because it's useless having civilians and military folk talk about it. We won't get anywhere. The comic compares to things that are never likely to happen. The situation is ridiculous, and furthermore, US soldiers haven't 'tortured and killed' 80,000 people. Now I know the information most people get is from the media and hearsay, but from my brother and father's experiences, the equivalent of you and I, living there; regular ass people, are more than happy to have the US involvement to help them, for whatever reason. Of course, there are the radicals and whatnot who hate the West for capitalism and what have you. I guess it's far too complicated for anyone to fully comprehend the situation without understanding both cultures, histories, politics, and everything else associated with life. It's just something that can't be done, which is why I'd say that average people should just shut up about it, because they jsut don't know the real deal. Plus, that cartoon's attempt to make us think is just a few fries short of a happy meal. I guess I really just rambled, but I just don't understand why people put so much effort into pretending that they understand the situation, and know what the real story is, because we don't. Nobody does. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:56pm
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Predatorr I don't want to discredit what you said, but what are you talking about? I'm pretty sure nothing you said has anything to do with what the comic is referring to. Ever seen New Jack City with Wesley Snipes?..His speech at the end because he is on trial for drugs? That is what came to mind with that post. A completely off topic speech. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 10:03pm
/just saying //I know you meant it as a joke ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 10:06pm
| Yeah the title was entirely because of the other "controversy" thread that wasn't controversial. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 10:21pm
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Simplistic and uninformed cartoon is simplistic and uninformed.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 10:27pm
That's not the point of the cartoon. I get that it has some misconceptions, but look at the message, not the mistakes. Its point is to make you look at the situation from their perspective. We got attacked, so we retaliated in the wrong country. This brought the true attackers over to Iraq and caused chaos there and everywhere else. As a result, nearly 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed. We're taught not to think much of this, especially from their perspective. We haven't really experienced terror here as Middle Easterners have, so it's difficult to comprehend the severity of our actions in the Middle East. The truth is, our poor response to 9/11 turned our soldiers into unintentional (and many intentional) terrorists. We may have not killed all those civilians in Iraq, but it's our fault they happened. No, Saddam would not have been worse, and he was no where near as bad as some other leaders when it came to oppressing people. Imagine now, if some fanatics pissed off a country, and that country's government used that attack to lie to its people about the U.S. to gain their support in a war against us. Imagine if they had the capability to do to us what we did to Iraq. One million U.S. civilians would be dead using the correct proportions. We would be terrorized by the fanatics' group on a daily basis and bombs would be going off in our streets as that other nation's army patrols and fights on our streets, raiding and destroying our homes in search of terrorists. Would you not be really pissed off, scared for yourself and your family, and begin seeing anyone with a gun as a terrorist? Would you hate and want to fight off the invading country? Those are the questions the creator of that picture wants you to answer. You know those answers would be yes. He wants you to understand that we were not correct in our response and it's incredibly ignorant to support such a conflict. He wants you to drop the "I'm a 'Merican" mentality and replace it with "I'm a human." To say that choopie is stupid in bringing this up only reveals your ignorance of what our invasion does to people. ------------- 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:39pm
Thank you Tolga That is EXACTLY what I got from the comic, and thus why I figured it'd spark debate. Well done broseph.
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:45pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:50pm
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I'm definitely going to find Tolgak when zombies attack.
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Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:55pm
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You do that - I'm going to Shorty's house. ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 1:18am
The smoke on the right tower looks like a photoshop This on the other hand is real  Now im going to cry for the next 6 years when ever someone mentions something about the candles They sure did a good job of terrorizing you guys if you still are soft about it this many years later. ------------- |
Posted By: Susan Storm
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:52am
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I lol'ed. And then I saved it to the HD. ------------- "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." |
Posted By: MT. Vigilante
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 2:42pm
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Were you there?! Did you know anyone who died?!! This isn't about being terrorized! Its about being pissed off! A friend of mine was murdered in cold blood by evil men from over seas, as well as 3,000 other people! And you are making a joke out off their deaths!!! I don't care if you are just trying to spark debate or being a troll but either way you are being a complete ass and less than human by disrespecting those who died that day, including my friend. I don't care how long ago it was, if your friend was murdered you whould never completely get over it, and you whould never make a joke out of thier death. ------------- Join the XP Re-Revolution!
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Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 3:27pm
Why are you replying. You know I'm going to keep going to get you riled up. 3000 innocent people died, thats jack compared to how many innocent people were killed in cold blood by US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. Id rather be sad for them since they died as a result of some drunken redneck thinking their are nuclear 'devices' and evil doers in some random country. God bless the thousands of innocent people who died in iraq from Yanky forces. You guys cause terror every god damn day to millions of people each day in iraq ------------- |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 3:29pm
Your an idiot. -------------
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Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 3:33pm
Yep and I have no heart for lots of things. ------------- |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 3:34pm
| This thread has enormous potential |
Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 3:46pm
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I would like to offer my thanks and gratitude to all the US forces doing their duty in Iraq to protect our freedoms. I am an Iraqi man, and I have benefited greatly from the brave Marines and soldiers in my country. Just think of it: five short years ago, I was just a small businessman in Baghdad. I had a sandal repair shop. I repaired people's sandals for money. I lived in a tiny little house with my wife and our two young children. It was very difficult to make a good living for my family. Then Bush invaded, and things have gotten so much better. Now I don't have to worry about meeting unreasonable sandal deadlines, since my house was bombed. But that's ok, because my living expenses have gone down since my wife and daughter died in a crossfire. And I am vacationing with my young son in a refugee camp in Syria, so that's pretty cool. I don't have proper school supplies to teach him to read, but that's no big deal either, since he was blinded anyway. Things are great now - much better than they were before you invaded. I am totally free now. Thanks, Americans! |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 3:50pm
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Funny, I knew Susan was one to kick a hornets nest now and again, but actually trolling is a new one. ------------- ? |
Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:13pm
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Clearly you have not been paying attention... :) But I'm not sure this qualifies as trolling, given the obviousness. I think trolling requires some attempt at subtlety. Now my original "sniper" thread from back in the day, THAT was trolling. ------------- "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. " http://zombo.com/ - Most awesome site EVAR! |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:31pm
Shorty cant hit what he shoots at... Might want to seriously reconsider. I have my Money in Pepprdog's house. ------------- 
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 7:03pm
Why? Also, if you plan to call someone else an idiot, please know the difference between "your" and "you're." -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 7:19pm
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:06pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:19pm
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.636, you are a case in ignorance.
Only a small portion of civilians killed in Iraq or Afghanistan are of a direct consequence to our actions. Of that, only a small percentage were "in cold blood", as you put it. The other are either collateral damage or justifiable. Does it suck when an innocent dies? Hell yes, and anyone that argues differently is an idiot. But there's a difference between being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and someone killing 3,000 people in one fell swoop just because they wanted to. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:21pm
How is collateral damage not someone dying? |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:22pm
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Wrong place at the wrong time? You mean in their homes or on their property? Yeah I can totally see how it's justifiable or just "collateral," as if that term actually makes it okay. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:24pm
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Choop, never said it wasn't, but I'll break it down to avoid any future problems.
These numbers are made up to make it easier. Lets say 1,000 people were killed by US forces. Of that, easily 500 are collateral damage. Maybe another 450 were justifiable (ie they had a gun and percieved as a threat, even if they weren't). That means the remaining 50 were killed "in cold blood", Vietnam style. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:26pm
| Gotta love terms like "collateral damage" Somehow that's different. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:27pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:28pm
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Dune, lets take the bomb we dropped on al Zarqawi.
In the house a few "civilians" died. Wrong place at wrong time. I mean no il-intent by my usage of "wrong place/wrong time", so please, don't go that route. -------------
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:30pm
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Linus, you are wrong. You are always wrong, and I refuse to refute any point you attempt to make to me since you will, undoubtedly, argue until your fingers are numb and grasp straws. You are a tool of the government and a sheep and will always be. You completely ignore relevant and valid points in argument and, much like Carl, go with the "NO UR RONG LOL" approach. Good day. -------------
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:30pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:31pm
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Mbro, if we hadn't built the WTC, they couldn't have bombed it... so by your definition, it's our fault that it was bombed on 9/11.
Yes, they could argue it, but any one that actually agrees with the terrorist have some problems of their own. Again, I will quote myself because this forum is notorious for forgetting what people say so they can prove a point. "Does it suck when an innocent dies? Hell yes, and anyone that argues differently is an idiot. " -------------
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:31pm
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You use collateral and "wrong place wrong time" as if somehow that lightens the act itself. It doesn't yet it makes it seem as if it's the fault of those who were living in the house to have been there in the first place. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:33pm
You're playing both sides of the coin now. I agree wholeheartedly with your point. Cost/benefit or our being in Afghanistan. Innocent people will die, but so will terrorist. Like you said, cost/benefit. -------------
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:34pm
In my view, and many other peoples, if they lived in the house, they knew he was there, and in knowing he was there, were aiding a known terrorist. Does it suck the kids died? Yes. Anyone else in the house? Not really. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:36pm
How on earth are you trying to pin that logic on MBro when it's your own faulty reasoning that would draw that connection. Linus, you're in the wrong, like in most debates. Please finally be man enough to admit it for once. We've gone through this countless times with you, and you can never just admit it. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:38pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:39pm
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I came in, made a simple point, and like always, the same handful of people have to jump on it and say "you're wrong", and I'm somehow supposed to care?
Simple fact, .636 is the one that's wrong. You cannot compare a terrorist attack against civilians to collateral damage in a war. -------------
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:39pm
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When the government blew up the buildings.
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:39pm
So what happens when people are living in section 8 housing in the projects and know their family members/people living with them are drug dealers. Law enforcement gets involved in a raid and neighbors get killed. "Wrong place wrong time?" Collateral damage? Cost/Analysis? All of those are tools used by people who refuse to face fact of just how wrong it is to kill innocents to get to criminals. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:40pm
You're right, my bad. It should read "attacked". -------------
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:40pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:44pm
There's your answer; troll. I suggest you ignore him. ------------- 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:45pm
Uh, how? You're too in love with "terrorists" being your excuse. Cut it out. Get rid of the term terrorist and we have: one country attacks another, many civilian lives are lost. The countries resent each other and attacks continue, killing more people. "a person who terrorizes or frightens others." How are they terrorists and the US aren't? It's just a title that is applied constantly to ANYONE who opposes the US, where in the same position you bet your ass there would be US citizens in the streets defending themselves from what they oppose. Would you call THEM terrorists? No way in hell you would Linus. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:49pm
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That's a cop-out at all angles. Claiming that more were saved has no legitimate basis and is only used to make you and others sleep better at night. Killing innocents to save innocents is not about have priorities screwed up, you still end up losing. Okay, well his argument is deleted or being edited, so my point may be useless. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:54pm
Make sure you quote him so he can't weasel his way out of his flawed logic. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:54pm
There is a difference between a government attacking and a militant group. /not that I'm defending Linus //Just making a point -------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:57pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:00pm
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Dune already made this point, but it stands repeating: Scenario 1 US military personnel come across a building where we think that Saddam's sons are hiding. After politely knocking, somebody inside starts shooting out the windows. Commander looks around, asks if anybody knows if there are any civilians in the building. His troops shrug and say "dunno". Commander says "whatever", and orders rockets launched into the building, knowing that they will probably kill whoever is in there. Any dead innocents in that building = collateral damage. The soldiers = heros.
Scenario 2 US police personnel come across a building where we think that a fugitive murderer is hiding. After politely knocking, somebody inside starts shooting out the windows. Police commander looks around, asks if anybody knows if there are any civilians in the building. His troops shrug and say "dunno". Commander says "whatever", and orders rockets launched into the building, knowing that they will probably kill whoever is in there. Any dead innocents in that building = public outrage. The police officers = up on murder charges.
How is scenario 1 any different, morally speaking? Are not the dead equally dead? ------------- "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. " http://zombo.com/ - Most awesome site EVAR! |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:01pm
I know, I understand that you wouldn't apply the title of terrorist to something like the military, but I was trying to stress that using "they're terrorists" as a blanket excuse is ridiculous considering what they're doing, what we're doing, and what we'd be doing in their position. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:05pm
It's only good to those who want to feel better about their actions. To the parents of the children in that hospital it's still evil. The best part about philosophy is that there are no right answers, that's why I usually just go with killing an innocent is the same regardless of perspective. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:13pm
I'm just pointing out that in most situations the big picture is what is argued than individual life as well as what's best for the persons represented by the decision makers who want to feel better about their actions. I'm just trying to offer counter point for the sake of argument development. Most commanding figures view national prosperity > individual human life. Whether or not it is morally equivalent. -------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:15pm
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Well I won't argue that the big picture is how most people choose to view decisions regardless of morality. Good point. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:20pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 10:24pm
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Humanity is doomed. Might as well go out with a bang, right? ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 9:00am
Well clearly, the "people" in scenario 1 are Muslims and Arabs and are less than human. You should know better than to compare those dogs to good, 'merican citizens. Collateral damage is always easy to justify when society looks at the innocents as enemies. It is no more right or wrong if U.S. civilians are killed in war. -------------
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:41am
IE: Any law enforcement branch of the US Gov't. It's not like killing innocents is limited to Iraq. Remember WACO, and any other of the countless people the feds/police have killed because they "might" have been criminals? Edited: ^Sorry if that has nothing to do with the thread, but I was half-asleep when I wrote that. More controversy. ------------- 
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 12:24pm
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Choop, I find the initial image you decided to portray to be rather distasteful, and that isn't due to some sort of jingoistic pride. Some of us had a lot of things hit very close to home during the WTC crisis. I had several friends and class-mates who died while working a breakfast for 71 conference guests at the top of the north tower at Windows on the World. I also had a standing offer as a lead line cook at the restaurant had I decided not to pursue a bachelor's degree and just finish my associates degree like 90% of CIA students do. Had I taken that job, there would have been a very good chance that I would have been present for that function and would have been amongst the victims. All 73 restaurant staff members died as a result of the impact and ensuing fire.
Furthermore, my classmates and I fed the rescue and clean-up crews as well as their police guard every single day until we graduated on November 30th, 2001. We also held a benefit to raise money for the Windows of Hope organization which provides relief, scholarships, and security to the families of those food and beverage workers who lost their lives as a result of the WTC crisis. The 9-11 case for invasion of Iraq is only what the media latched onto in an effort to spin the story into something that would tug at the heart-strings of Americans. The main focus of the invasion was a search for weapons that were to have been disabled and destroyed after the first Gulf War. To distill the multi-fold reasons that were laid forth to convince the nation we should go to war down to what you posted in the OP serves no purpose other than to kick up a hornet's nest and give you fodder to use to bash others who don't agree with your own stance. Honestly, this is beneath you choop. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 4:09pm
| Why is 9-11 off limits because the American people were directly effected? |
Posted By: Ozwarg
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 4:35pm
Because scenario 2 did not happen to Americans... people can bring sanctions/sue whatever mumbo-jumbo they want. Americans don't care for anyone but themselves, and don't say you do, because you don't. When you watch the news and they say "American Soldiers engaged al-qaeda Terrorists this afternoon and in the firefight 14 Terrorist's lost their lives, 2 Americans and 46 Civilians, what is your first "ZOMG!" The American lives... you probably couldn't careless if the Officer on duty gave horrific artillery coordinates and ended up taking out a Apartment Complex instead of the Hotel the Al-Qaeda Snipers where in. But this is sometimes why it is so easy to Recruit "terrorist" the people have already lost everything they loved why not join th Jihad? If they die they will be seen as Martyrs in Allah's eyes, so Death to them would be a step up... -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 6:27pm
I never said the WTC incident was off-limits, just that using it in this method, which is nothing more than troll-bait, was crass. It always has been whether on cable news shows or over on SA or FARK forums. I just find it beneath Choop, who normally shows acumen when it comes to debate and topic choice. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |