Femme Fatale DM5

Autococker body

they shall become one!

I plan on sending them both to destructive customs and get them milled up and down to fit one another...i can't wait!

ok they good now

oh yes i cant wait, seriously i was already drooling about the frame, i got it off ebay for $50 and its pratically brand new, everything works flawlessly...and then my friend mentioned getting the body for my autococker i was working on to get milled to fit the DM and i slapped myself for not thinking about it b4 cuz its gunna look sick, since the body of the cocker is too blocky im gunna hvae him do some cosmetics on it to flow along with the frame so it wont look odd, one of a kind tho, and thats the kicker, after i get the finish product im gunna send it off to odd paintball to get some laser engraving ( i figured that would be better than getting a tattoo on myself) 

on a side note, i thought it was strange that the cocker had angel threading when i got it...is that normal or a little strange? lol DM frame, cocker body, and angel barrel thread, i might as well call this gun Frankenstein.

outta curiosity, im not that much of a vet in the DM field or autocockers for that matter, but with this setup, what type of ASA should i get? and should i invest in some eyes or are detents fine by themselves?

Wow. You have a long and bumpy path to travel...

First off, the frame is going to have to be moved backwards a little bit. Where it sits now is in the way of the vertical ASA. As such, the frame's "tail piece" will be hanging out the back, so you may want to have that milled off. Also, new holes will have to be drilled in the frame, as I'm almost certain that the frame mounting holes on a DM and a 'cocker are completely different.

Secondly, do you know how a 'cocker works? Your frame won't be able to work unless you have a flapper 'noid fitted into the frame, or an MQ valve installed.

Third, detents and eyes do completely different things. Detents hold the balls in place, and in the circumstances of closed bolt markers (i.e. the 'cocker) prevent doule feeds. Eyes are sensors on the body of a paintball gun that detect if a paintball is in the breech or not. If a paintball is not detected, the bolt will not close, and this prevents chops. Your marker will need both detents and eyes.

Fourth, you're not the first person to do this. Just thougt I should mention that.

Remember, just because it looks like it will line up doesn't mean it will all work together.

That said, good luck!

DeTrevni wrote: Wow. You have a long and bumpy path to travel...

figured as much

First off, the frame is going to have to be moved backwards a little bit. Where it sits now is in the way of the vertical ASA. As such, the frame's "tail piece" will be hanging out the back, so you may want to have that milled off.

the guy doing the milling has informed me of this

as I'm almost certain that the frame mounting holes on a DM and a 'cocker are completely different.

they are

Secondly, do you know how a 'cocker works?

meh some of it

Your frame won't be able to work unless you have a flapper 'noid fitted into the frame, or an MQ valve installed.

do tell more of this, like how to put it in and where to get it would be nice

Third, detents and eyes do completely different things. Detents hold the balls in place, and in the circumstances of closed bolt markers (i.e. the 'cocker) prevent doule feeds. Eyes are sensors on the body of a paintball gun that detect if a paintball is in the breech or not. If a paintball is not detected, the bolt will not close, and this prevents chops. Your marker will need both detents and eyes.

duely noted, are there certain eyes that are better than others or does that even matter?

Fourth, you're not the first person to do this. Just thougt I should mention that.

but still, seeing the faces of the people who are staring at the gun trying to figure out what the hell it is will be priceless

I'll elaborate on the frame issue. The autococker in it's most basic electronic form is a sear tripper, similar to a Spyder, if we're chopping it down to basics. Within the frame of the E-Blade (we'll use that as en example, as it's the most popular frame) there is a board and a solenoid. It's a mechanical solenoid we refer as a "flapper" or "pancake" 'noid. What these do is when an electric current flows through it, a rod is drawn through the core of the 'noid and presses against something. In this case, it's a sear that releases a hammer. When the current is gone, a spring pushes the 'noid back into its resting position, ready to be activated again. On a simple electro 'cocker, a 2nd solenoid, a pneumatic 'noid that routs air to the ram in place of the 3-way, is mounted on the front of the marker. This actuates the ram which recocks the marker.

The MQ valve eliminates the need for the flapper 'noid. Basically, it incorporates the flapper 'noid directly into the valve. The same signal that sends current from the board to the 'noid on the basic electro 'cocker is sent to the MQ valve on an MQ'd 'cocker. The electronic valve actuates (I honestly don't know exactly how, as I've never personally used an MQ) and the gun fires.

With an MQ valve, the need for the flapper 'noid is gone, so you can basically use any frame you want, as long as the MQ is wired into the board.

Oh, this is also important: The Matrix board WILL NOT WORK. You will need to find a board that controles dual solenoids on a closed bolt marker. This is basically only an E-Blade board, as the Race frame will be difficult to fit. The trick with installing an E-Blade board is you are going to have to make it so the trigger trips the optic E-Blade switch.

This is going to cost you a LOT of money. The MQ2 valve (the current version of the MQ) alone is $120. If you want to follow through, you can get an MQ2 from Moody Paintball.

DeTrevni wrote: I'll elaborate on the frame issue. The autococker in it's most basic electronic form is a sear tripper, similar to a Spyder, if we're chopping it down to basics. Within the frame of the E-Blade (we'll use that as en example, as it's the most popular frame) there is a board and a solenoid. It's a mechanical solenoid we refer as a "flapper" or "pancake" 'noid. What these do is when an electric current flows through it, a rod is drawn through the core of the 'noid and presses against something. In this case, it's a sear that releases a hammer. When the current is gone, a spring pushes the 'noid back into its resting position, ready to be activated again. On a simple electro 'cocker, a 2nd solenoid, a pneumatic 'noid that routs air to the ram in place of the 3-way, is mounted on the front of the marker. This actuates the ram which recocks the marker. The MQ valve eliminates the need for the flapper 'noid. Basically, it incorporates the flapper 'noid directly into the valve. The same signal that sends current from the board to the 'noid on the basic electro 'cocker is sent to the MQ valve on an MQ'd 'cocker. The electronic valve actuates (I honestly don't know exactly how, as I've never personally used an MQ) and the gun fires. With an MQ valve, the need for the flapper 'noid is gone, so you can basically use any frame you want, as long as the MQ is wired into the board.

ok that de-fogs alot

Oh, this is also important: The Matrix board WILL NOT WORK. You will need to find a board that controles dual solenoids on a closed bolt marker. This is basically only an E-Blade board, as the Race frame will be difficult to fit.

so will the DM5 frame fit this board stock or will it need some extra room?

The trick with installing an E-Blade board is you are going to have to make it so the trigger trips the optic E-Blade switch.

what level of difficulty are we talking getting a DM5 trig to do what an eblade trig does?

This is going to cost you a LOT of money. The MQ2 valve (the current version of the MQ) alone is $120. If you want to follow through, you can get an MQ2 from Moody Paintball.

this is a project gun that will take a WHILE to get fully in working order and will be asking advice down my rocky road to sweet sexy awsomeness much money, much time, but most of all, much love will be going into this project.

i got a 98 as my primary till this gets up and running, with my time restraints i may be looking at a nice 1 or 2 years worth of work

Well, the E-Blade board will probably fit within the frame, but things won't line up. The board will need to be mounted some how, as it can't be left to flop around.

If you look at a picture of an E-Blade, you can see an extension coming from behind the trigger into the frame. The switch on the E-Blade board is optical, which means the board has an infrared beam that is broken to activate the marker's firing sequence. The extension on the back of the E-Blade's trigger breaks this beam, activating the marker.

Upon further reflection, modifying a Race frame board to fit will probably be simpler. The board is smaller and uses a standard dome micro-switch (or a leaf-spring switch, but a standard micro-switch can be easily fitted), thus making it easier to mount the board and adapt the DM frame's trigger to use. The only problem with Race is the company is effectively defunct, and they take a rather hard to come by 4.8v battery.

ok so in your opinion overall which one would be easier to do?

ive only seen the outside of an e-blade, i and dont hvae quite the time to thoroughly examine one on the puter yet and by defunct u mean went under i take it, so im looking for something like an e-bolt then? or are race baords easier to come by?

The E-Bolt would be a good analogy for it. Oh, another problem with the Race, to modify its settings, you need to hook it up to your computer via a data cable. If you want, I'm sure you could have the guy doing your milling drill a hole in the back of the frame to mount the data cable, but it could be held loosely in the frame. It would just be a minor inconvenience as you'd need to undo the grip every time you wanted to charge it or change its settings.

Here, I'll give a rundown of each board in regards to this project.

E-Blade baord

Advantages:
- Easy to get
- Company of manufacture still in operation (Planet Eclipse)
- 9v battery powered
Disadvantages:
- Optic switch difficult to get trigger to work with
- Needs to be mounted to frame in certain position
- Kind of large
- Window in back of frame and holes for the buttons will be needed to change and see the settings

Race Frame board

Advantages:
- Smaller than E-Blade board
- Uses standard micro-switch
- can be loose in frame (no frame modification required for board [just a way to mount the microswitch behind the trigger])
Disadvantages:
- Company is gone
- Hard to find
- Change settings through computer
- Access to cable link on board difficult
- 4.8v battery

Still, I'd say the Race board will be easier to use in the long run. However, would it be easiest and WAAAAAAAY cheaper to just get an E-Blade and slap it on there? Well, yeah. It all depends on what you want to do.

i loled at slapping, i would never slap my baby DeTrevini,

the way i see it is that i could essentially get the DM frame milled in the correct measurements of an eblade frame, get the board and what not and basicaly just have a DM cosmetically while being full blood eblade on the inside, the holes for the bottons and screen shouldnt be a problem i dont think, the extra length on the DM (of what doesnt get milled off) could possibly hold the window and buttons if anything (and would look pretty cool) id need to see how big the bottons and screen are before i get too ahead of myself, but from what it sounds like, the e-blade is the way to go

Thats gonna be pretty sweet.  I say since this is gonna be your couple year project you should mill the frame like this

Wow. Blackrain's body IS popular.

And those aren't even the same bodies. That one (^^^) is an AIM Crow, and Ace's is an AIM Eagle.

any idear what kinda inline reg i should get? i dunno which ones are good n bad and i dont have the $ for trial and error, could i possibly get a Hyper4?

kurieitaa wrote: Planet Eclipse http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/3549/ - Zero B is a good board, give that a look at.

thanks, you saved me about $90

Ace_Of_Spades wrote: kurieitaa wrote: Planet Eclipse http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/3549/ - Zero B is a good board, give that a look at. thanks, you saved me about $90

np glad to help, im just waiting for http://www.tadaotechnologies.com/ - Tadao Technologies  to release there "Yakuza E2 & E1 + Arizona PSP" boards, befor i get a new board.

im getting tired of my v1.06 e1 board. lol

little updates, bolt and barrel, i think its coming alon nicely thus far.

DeTrevni wrote: Wow, that frame is far back.

its not actually on there yet, still need to drill holes, its just a guestimate of where it will be

Pariel wrote: Well, you're winning in the ghetto department.

man your really douchey towards me lately, any reason as to why or is it just that "diet" getting to you?