Fighting a Speeding Ticket...
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Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
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URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=176248
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Topic: Fighting a Speeding Ticket...
Posted By: Zata
Subject: Fighting a Speeding Ticket...
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:04am
He tells me he had me going 65mph in a 45. I didn't question him or give him any attitude. After he leaves, I look over the ticket and notice that it says "paced at 65+". Now it makes sense as to why my fuzz buster didn't go off (yeah I don't think him seeing that helped me)
I really don't believe I was doing 65+. I was on my way to work and I was going in early for the hell of it. I had no reason to speed. I was probably doing around 50 at the most like I typically do on that street. So was I speeding? Yeah but certainly not 65+.
I would think that if any car had been following me that closely, for
the length of time that is probably required for pacing, that I would
have noticed them in my mirror. I think its possible that at the point he caught up to me, he was doing 65, but I was not and as he started to slow down, I slowed down also, but to turn into work. It probably looked like I saw him and hit the breaks.
So I'm looking for help, tips, and any opinions you guys have as to my situation. I plan to talk it over with a few people and try to figure out if I should bother fighting it. I know about the calibration thing, but he was driving one of the newer Chargers, so that probably won't help me.
I think things that would hurt me in court are: -My age, 20 -My car, a Red Firebird with loud exhaust -A 5mph over ticket last fall from the same guy -My fuzz buster if he remembers it and mentions it in court
The fine is $80, no big deal, but obviously I'd rather lose the points. I'd like to see about paying the fine and taking a driving class or whatever to get my points dropped. This cop is known for pulling people over a lot, so I'm not sure if that would mean if he will or won't show up in court.
Also, I he never had me sign anything. I'm sure the laws are different in each state/county/whatever, but does anyone know if that means anything? I live in Michigan.
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Replies:
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:08am
It's only $80 and you want to fight it? you lucked out.
Also ticket from the same guy you suck....
Don't fight it, you won't win unless no cop shows up.
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:09am
jmac3 wrote:
It's only $80 and you want to fight it?
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I don't care about the fine, I care about the points for insurance.
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Posted By: xXK1CK1NVV1NGXx
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:10am
I agree with jmac, your chances of winning are slim to none.
------------- <Sig violation, Section 1>
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:17am
Worth a shot, whats the worst that happens? You lose and you're where you started...
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:19am
choopie911 wrote:
Worth a shot, whats the worst that happens? You lose and you're where you started... |
+what the court charges you to do it.
Here it's at least $20 to fight it.
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:20am
jmac3 wrote:
choopie911 wrote:
Worth a shot, whats the worst that happens? You lose and you're where you started... |
+what the court charges you to do it.
Here it's at least $20 to fight it.
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That's what I need to find out.
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Posted By: pntbl freak
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 7:35am
You're insurance shouldnt go up. The only time it will go up is if you reapply for insurance. Then they will see you have had a ticket causing the cost to go up.
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Posted By: techietaichi
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 8:07am
choopie911 wrote:
Worth a shot, whats the worst that happens? You lose and you're where you started... |
Exactly. I got a ticket that everyone said I couldn't beat, but yeah, I beat that rap! Fight the power man. Even if it doesn't go your way, at least you tried.
------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZWhJCF6Ig">
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Posted By: t_hop
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 8:37am
I would fight it. My brother has numerous run ins with speeding tickets, the first time he went to traffic school. At the school he said that the officer told him and the rest of the 16-19 age teenagers to always challenge the radar detector reading. By doing this you are denying that you were going the speed they gave you the ticket for; the reason this supposedly works is because in order for an officer to log the speed on the gun they have to do about 1.5 hours of paper work everytime so none of them do it. that might work, maybe worth a shot?
his last two tickets he has gotten in a two month span and because he is pursuing a piloting career he cannot afford to have these tickets so we got a lawyer. The lawyer has gotten the first ticket removed and he is going to a driving school instead, the second court date hasn't come up yet but we are expecting the same. not sure what its costing us for him, prolly more than 80 bucks, but its worth it cuz he's really into flying. give it a shot, don't let a bad cop push people around.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 9:32am
^^ I find it hard to beleive that an officer was telling kids in driving school to challenge tickets written by his fellow officers. He is either the worlds worst cop or someone is stretching the truth a bit.
Sounds like your brother needs to slow his arse down if not getting tickets is that important to him.
Regarding Zata, if the court costs aren't that high, it doesn't hurt to try and fight it, but you will most likely lose. My opinion of tickets is that I usually deserve them for the other 1000 times I wasn't caught speeding.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 9:36am
Thanks guys.
My situation is a little bit different and new to me since I was paced, and he didn't use a radar. I've been trying to find info online about pacing, but there isn't much.
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 9:39am
According to my dad, who has been a cop for something like 15 years or so, maybe a couple more idk; If a police officer is actually certified with the radar gun, he does not even need to have the printed report or whatever from the gun, and his testimony alone is considered admissable in court. I imagine "pacing" did not mean he met your speed, so much as he judged your speed compared to the pace of those around you.
If he's actually certified, you can't beat it.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Posted By: Snake6.
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 9:56am
I have never heard of someone beating a ticket when the cop actually shows up for court. A cops word will always be held higher than your own. Its a he said, she said thing and you have no hard proof tht you wern't doing the speed he said you were doing. You are pretty boned.
-------------
http://paintballchat.org - Paintball Chat
I'm at work, Leave me alone!!!
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 9:58am
usafpilot07 wrote:
imagine "pacing" did not mean he met your speed, so much as he judged your speed compared to the pace of those around you.
If he's actually certified, you can't beat it.
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Well I don't think there was anyone near me. So whether he judged me from a distance, or he actually did follow me, I think these extra points really suck based on an estimate. I'll take them if its a radar though.
I really wish I would have realized what he did so I could have ask him, but I had originally thought he used radar and I was really confused why my fuzz buster didn't go off.
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 10:06am
Fight it
From what I learned in driving school:
Most cops have one day every little while that they use to go to court on. If your date does not fall on theirs, they will not show up and you will win.
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 10:26am
Zata wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
imagine "pacing" did not mean he met your speed, so much as he judged your speed compared to the pace of those around you.
If he's actually certified, you can't beat it.
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Well I don't think there was anyone near me. So whether he judged me from a distance, or he actually did follow me, I think these extra points really suck based on an estimate. I'll take them if its a radar though.
I really wish I would have realized what he did so I could have ask him, but I had originally thought he used radar and I was really confused why my fuzz buster didn't go off.
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Even then, if he's certified, a "I watched him from point A to point B" will be enough for a judge.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 10:32am
usafpilot07 wrote:
Zata wrote:
usafpilot07 wrote:
imagine "pacing" did not mean he met your speed, so much as he judged your speed compared to the pace of those around you.
If he's actually certified, you can't beat it.
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Well I don't think there was anyone near me. So whether he judged me from a distance, or he actually did follow me, I think these extra points really suck based on an estimate. I'll take them if its a radar though.
I really wish I would have realized what he did so I could have ask him, but I had originally thought he used radar and I was really confused why my fuzz buster didn't go off.
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Even then, if he's certified, a "I watched him from point A to point B" will be enough for a judge.
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Well like some of the other guys said, it wouldn't hurt much to at least try. I"ll probably fight it if its only $20-$30. My cousin has fought one in the same court so I'll see what he knows.
I've met one of the area judges, he knows my dad, so maybe if I get him in court, plus my charm and respectfulness, I could get a break.
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Posted By: oreomann33
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 10:32am
20 mph over the speed limit is reckless driving in my state. I would just pay it.
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Posted By: techietaichi
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 10:58am
I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard once that the fuzz have to pace you for 2 miles before they pull you over. Were there other cars beside you when you were stopped? Do you go straight to the judge for a hearing or see a magistrate before the judge? Magistrates can be your friend. They're mine.
------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZWhJCF6Ig">
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 11:11am
doesnt matter if he didn't sign it or not, its still valid.
as for fighting it, check your local laws. in ny now they have a law where if you show up and the cop doesn't the judge can still claim your guilty and do crap to you; although you weren't going that much over so it would only be a fine
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 11:22am
If you are anywhere near a city, they will have a two- or three-stage process before you get to trial, and you will have plenty of opportunities to plead down.
The courts are busy - they can't schedule a trial for every speeding ticket, so they have cattle call pleading sessions instead. Only if you plead not guilty at that time will you go to trial. And the purpose of those sessions is pretty much to discourage people from going to trial, so they usually have a standard offer, like half the fine, or no points, or whatever.
I go to court for all of my speeding tickets. I never plead not guilty, always take the deal offered, and it saves me lots of money and lots of points.
Smaller towns and rural areas may be different, simply due to the smaller docket. But even there having trials for speeding tickets is a waste of time, so pleadings are always possible.
As for actually contesting a speeding ticket - good luck.
------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg">
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 11:51am
carl_the_sniper wrote:
Most cops have one day every little while that they use to go to court on. If your date does not fall on theirs, they will not show up and you will win. |
Here(in MA) you see the Clerk Magistrate and they have a State Police trooper in the court all day to represent whatever cop it was.
I was fighting a driving without a license fine/whatever, and I sat there one day. They tended to offer anyone who showed up the minimum fine of $100 no matter what the ticket was. Or they could have paid $20 o see a judge and fight it further.
For me, they took off the driving without a license and lowered my speeding fine from the $200 it should have been to the $100 minimum.
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 11:54am
Rambino wrote:
If you are anywhere near a city, they will have a two- or three-stage process before you get to trial, and you will have plenty of opportunities to plead down.
The courts are busy - they can't schedule a trial for every speeding ticket, so they have cattle call pleading sessions instead. Only if you plead not guilty at that time will you go to trial. And the purpose of those sessions is pretty much to discourage people from going to trial, so they usually have a standard offer, like half the fine, or no points, or whatever.
I go to court for all of my speeding tickets. I never plead not guilty, always take the deal offered, and it saves me lots of money and lots of points.
Smaller towns and rural areas may be different, simply due to the smaller docket. But even there having trials for speeding tickets is a waste of time, so pleadings are always possible.
As for actually contesting a speeding ticket - good luck. |
Thanks, that really helped. The county I live in has around 250,000 people, and the biggest city has about 40,000.
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Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 3:11pm
What state you in? In New Jersey, theres "unsafe driving." Any 4 point ticket can be reduced to 0 points if the prosecutor offers. Problem is, it costs $439. Go to court with it. As Rambs said, they will offer you a plea deal. Courts don't want to deal with tickets. I'll assume since its 20 over, its a 4 point ticket. If you dress nicely and make a great first impression on the prosecutor, you will offer you to a plea deal down to 2 points. Call your insurance and ask if two points will raise your insurance.
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 3:22pm
my supervisors son is a cop. he was telling me a few months ago he had a day where everyone was doing right around 70 in a 45mph zone. he wrote a dozen or so tickets and towards the end of the shift he relized his radar was set to KPH not MPH... i figure if i ever get tagged at a crazy high speed that will be my argument.
------------- saving the world, one warship at a time.
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 3:24pm
cdacda13 wrote:
What state you in? In New Jersey, theres "unsafe driving." Any 4 point ticket can be reduced to 0 points if the prosecutor offers. Problem is, it costs $439. Go to court with it. As Rambs said, they will offer you a plea deal. Courts don't want to deal with tickets. I'll assume since its 20 over, its a 4 point ticket. If you dress nicely and make a great first impression on the prosecutor, you will offer you to a plea deal down to 2 points. Call your insurance and ask if two points will raise your insurance.
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I'm in Michigan, he wrote me for 10 over, which is cool that he gave me a break, but I still don't think I was doing that much over. This whole 'pace' thing annoys me. I'd rather pay for a ticket and increased insurance knowing I really was going that fast rather than have it being an estimate.
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 4:35pm
Just talked to my cousin who has fought tickets before. He says that our courts don't charge anything and that it's done in front of a magistrate. So I'm defiantly gonna give it a shot.
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Posted By: cdacda13
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 4:59pm
Simple google search of "speeding pacing"
PACING
WITH ANOTHER VEHICLE
Pacing simply means that the officer followed you with another vehicle,
attempting to maintain a constant distance and referring to his speedometer
to gauge your speed. In this case, the calibration of the police car is
critical to your defense. The defense strategies that we outlined earlier
may not all apply since the officer does not have to be specifically trained
in reading a speedometer, and it is unlikely he was following the wrong
vehicle. Your best bet is that the officer does not appear in court and
that the prosecution fails to prove all the points in the specific section
of the vehicle code.
Review the cross examination sections that we have discussed earlier and
also the radar ticket cross examinations. These questions should get your
thinking on the right track in order to prepare the questions for the motor
pacing case. Some of the more important items for you to remember are the
following:
Make sure the officer is giving recollection of the incident and not reading
directly from the back of the citation.
Make sure that the officer testifies that the unit was calibrated at a
certain date, and that the calibration certificate is present in court.
Also, the qualifications of the technician that calibrated the unit should
be available. Review the officers testimony carefully and also the prosecutors
line of questioning. If they leave out any of the points covered in the
vehicle code, you have grounds for motion to dismiss. Don't expect that
this will automatically happen, because the judge may allow the prosecution
to reopen their case if they do omit something. Ask the officer a
series of questions concerning the other traffic on the road. Ask him if
during the time he was pacing you, he passed any other vehicles. If not,
that would indicate that you were traveling at the same speed as the other
vehicles at that time of day on that section of road.
Ask the officer as to the exact distances covered from the time the officer
began to pace the speed of your vehicle until you were stopped. You
would also want to know the estimated distance between the two vehicles
at all times. Review the math and see if the officer actually had
to speed up in order to close the distance between your vehicles before
he pulled you over. It's possible he could have used the accelerated
speed and used that speed as the basis for the ticket. |
Taken from How to beat speeding ticket.
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Posted By: rockerdoode
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 12:07pm
merc wrote:
my supervisors son is a cop. he was telling me a few months ago he had a day where everyone was doing right around 70 in a 45mph zone. he wrote a dozen or so tickets and towards the end of the shift he relized his radar was set to KPH not MPH... i figure if i ever get tagged at a crazy high speed that will be my argument. |
Dude...your supervisors son is an idiot.
------------- "According to Sue Johanson, theres nothing that can increase your manhood, trust me I've already looked into it for myself." -Zata
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Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 12:08pm
rockerdoode wrote:
merc wrote:
my supervisors son is a cop. he was telling me a few months ago he had a day where everyone was doing right around 70 in a 45mph zone. he wrote a dozen or so tickets and towards the end of the shift he relized his radar was set to KPH not MPH... i figure if i ever get tagged at a crazy high speed that will be my argument. |
Dude...your supervisors son is an idiot.
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------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx
~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 12:19pm
You should always fight it and expect the officer will be there. Where in MI do you live?
A good lawer should be able to keep you from getting points. Faulty equipment.
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Posted By: Zata
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 12:25pm
Lightningbolt wrote:
You should always fight it and expect the officer will be there. Where in MI do you live?
A good lawer should be able to keep you from getting points. Faulty equipment.
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I live in Port Huron. I don't really think a lawyer is necessary for a speeding ticket. I'd probably spend more money on the lawyer than I would save by fighting it.
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 12:28pm
Can't help you I don't know anyone in Port Huron.
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 1:48pm
Something tells me CDA has experience with tickets. That might be because of his cars too.
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