any rangers/recon around here?
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Topic: any rangers/recon around here?
Posted By: GI JOES SON
Subject: any rangers/recon around here?
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 2:38pm
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i've got a few 3 years yet before i get commissioned as a Lieutenant, and i might be going to airborne school (if i play things right) next summer...air assault won't be happening this summer for a few reasons but thats life... anyway my question is...when i commission, i was planning on trying to go to ranger school...anyone here ever go to ranger school, pass or fail, or even any Marines go through recon? i would say they're comparable physical fitness wise. what kind of physical fitness would you recommend being in prior to attending? |
Replies:
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 2:42pm
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Maybe you should ask the military?
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 2:48pm
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CARDIO WORKOUT!!! seriously. I watched the recon Marines run by carrying full sand bags. They would go on 3 mile runs with those bags. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 3:06pm
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GI, I once worked for an officer who got on the Ranger course. We send a few people every year. This guy is part of one of our best units, and is in incredibler shape. He said that course was the most physically and mentally exhausting thing he'd ever done. It literally took him months to recover from it. This is a regular force infantry officer who's been on the special operations side of the house for a couple years now. To put it simply, get yourself in peak physical shape. Keep working to improve yourself every day between today and they day you go to Ranger school. You'll still kill yourself physically on the course, but the better the shape you're in, the more easily you'll recover. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_school - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_school ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 3:22pm
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Hey brihard:
maybe a dumb question but what opportunites are there for officers in very specialized units such as jtf2 or SAR techs? ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 4:13pm
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SARTECH is a noncommissioned air force trade. As an officer you're out of luck. As for JTF2/CSOR, worry about it again in eight years or so. And if the time should come that you actually have an interest in it and you've been around long enoguh that you're in consideration, you wouldn't be asking me about it. There are positions in those organizations for officers of any trade, but you've got enough on your plate already. If you have ambitions of doing this kind of thing later, do yourself a favour and keep them to yourself through your years at RMC and your first posting as a troop commander, should you make it to that point. The special forces wannabes get noticed quickly in training, and nobody takes them seriously. By the time you're in any position to be looking at doing that kind of stuff, you'll know it. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
carl_the_sniper wrote:Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 4:32pm
I realize this and beleive me, it is just an interesting thought as I haven't even decided what I want to go into at first. (I'm thinking armor) Curious... would those officer roles be combat? I leave August 3rd by the way. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 4:35pm
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I'm not privy to how they do things, but I know that they do have officers in combat leadership positions as well as all the normal staff positions. At that level, those units don't really care what your trade is if you're better at doing the job than the other guys. So on August 3rd, what do you start? IAP/prep year in St. Jean? Or are you here in Kingston in the fall? ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 4:50pm
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Marine Recon is comparable to Special Forces. Not Rangers your average Marine Rifleman is comparable in training to a Ranger. They all have different Missions and Training requirements.
I know Ken Majors is a Ranger. But those like even the new Marine Training changes with the years. So what he went through has probably changed. Your best bet is to work on your stamina and endurance. Then work on your Infantry god basics, Calling Fire Support, Land Navigation and your FMF6-5 Marine Rifle Squad or what ever publication the army uses for infantry field manual. after all you cant be an Elite Troop until your the best troop you can be. ------------- 
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 4:56pm
I cant picture Carl leading troops into combat. As for what Role Officers have in combat. From my own experience Minimal. Officers get the word and pass it down to Platoon Sargent and platoon leaders who depending on the mission write the Five Paragraph Order which the LT signs off on and then the LT is sent with the Command Element and NCO's are the ones that actually conduct most of the leading and ordering. Thou the LT keeps busy by chatting on the radio and with the occasional call for fire. But that's how the Marines work where most of the orders are issued down from Squad and Fire Team Leaders. I know a few of the Foreign troops I trained with are very reliant on Officers telling them what to do. Best LT is the one that gets out of the way enough to let his NCO and staff NCO run the house. -------------
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 5:05pm
Then again, you don't know me. 
I was more asking Brihard what combat roles officers can play in jtf2. I know we are most likely a lot different than marines in the roles officers play. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: im_new
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 5:10pm
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jtf2 armour?? when i was still in jtf planned on expanding the unit, 1000 more positions or so. did that happen?? or should we even be talking about this? :| ------------- 98 custom pro e-trigger flatline torque loader tippmann expansion chamber |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 5:19pm
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Im Delta force
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 5:24pm
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Buddy of mine finished Ranger/Airborne/whatever a couple of years ago... I'll see if I can remember to ask him about it. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 5:59pm
They are reopening a RMC campus in St jean this year (not the prep year) and I am being sent there for my four years. It's a long way from home but it's 20 minutes from Montreal. (which is awesome) I got to see the campus and it looks very similar to RMC Kingston just smaller. I don't even have to do training at the base in St Jean (the one with the gigantic building), I am going straight to the university. For more reading: (the intro paragraph seems to be the only one that's up to date) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collège_militaire_royal_de_Saint-Jean - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collège_militaire_royal_de_Sain t-Jean Some pretty awesome people in the alumni too. (Roméo Dallaire) ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: TRAVELER
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:31am
Marine riflemen are not the equivalent of Rangers. Recon/Ranger are interchangeable, and both are SOC (spec ops command) units. Training programs are almost identical, and cadre from both forces often train each other, so you'll sometimes see Marines giving instruction at Ranger school, and Ranger NCOs giving instruction at Recon training. The only difference between the two is that the Army has better infrastructure, so Rangers have seen much more action than Recon Marines (as was said in a popular movie a few years ago, Rangers have been part of almost every American military action since the Revolutionary War). The training is only as hard as you think it is. I remember a Ranger NCO (Staff Sergeant Johnson) lecturing us on "intestinal fortitude" the day we arrived for RIP. We were made to hold our arms horizontally while he talked, and during the lecture he held up his arms as well. 20 minutes later he was the only one of the 200 or so of us who was still able to hold up his arms. Ranger PT alternates from day to day, between abdominals and upper body strength. Sit ups, rocky sit ups, Russian sit ups, vertical sit ups... Upper body strength was pushups and pushups, followed by more pushups. These are often done with your feet in an elevated position. The trees around Fort Benning are painted white to height of about one meter. You put your boots above that line and do your pushups from that position. Run as much as you can, and run fast, no slower than six and a half minutes per mile. You should be able to run a minimum of 5 miles at that pace before you begin training. (You won't be doing much PT in Ranger school, but you will be using all of your strength and endurance, so stock up on it. Don't even think of starting if your PT score is under 270.) For practice, Saturdays are march days. You take a loaded ruck and your favorite boots, distance is 20 kilometers, the same distance as held on the final day of RIP. Maintain a good pace, you should be able to cover the distance in no more than 3 hours. Ranger Joe's has information and an equipment list for those curious about Ranger school. I recommend getting their gear if you have the time, they sell bdu's with padding sewn into the knees and elbows (you'll appreciate it), and laminated Ranger hand books (it rained almost every day I was there). You'll be made to recite random info from the handbook from time to time, make sure you memorize it. Make sure you know how to read a map. Get the land navigation handbook, and read every page 5 times. One of the most difficult parts of the course is land navigation, and it is usually the one that will give you the most grief. It may sound like it's not that hard, but at Camp Merrill, at nigh, when you are up to your waist in water, and there are no visible landmarks other than trees, and you haven't slept in 2 days, you'll come to appreciate the time you spent learning to use a map and compass. ------------- For I will wander to and fro, I'll go where I no one do know, |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:43am
Errmm.. opening myself up to some 2week/BC jokes here, BUT: Recon =/= Force Recon And Force Recon is not part of USSOCOM ( http://www.usmarinerecon.com/index.html - http://www.usmarinerecon.com/index.html ). ------------- 
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Posted By: GI JOES SON
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 10:01am
i just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped, it did help a lot  |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 5:56pm
Actually there is no More "Force Recon" The unit was disbanded and turned into the Marine Corps Special Operations Battalions. The SOB's fall under SOCOM. They say the only reason why this was made is because Navy SEALs dont want to deploy in "Floats" With the 6th Fleet or other Fleet's Landing Forces. Since the Navy SEALs and the former Force Recon missions specially that of the DAP (Direct Action Platoon) where pretty much the same. So now SOB's are among SOCOM's Forward Deployed Forces. But I am sure part of that is also are Budget Issues and wanting to be part of all the big shows. Recon Marines are not the same as Rangers. Their mission isn't to engage the enemy. Hence why they are called Reconnaissance Marines. While Rangers trained mostly for Specialized Raids from Either Air, Land or Sea. Same as any Marine Line Company except that Marines don't do airborne assaults. They are Deployed by Helicopter, Armor or Boat. -------------
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 6:02pm
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If only there were a clever acronym one could make from this job description... ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 6:04pm
I've got it... LASer. Land-Air-Sea-er's. I'd join that. ------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45 
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 6:09pm
Mega Force?  -------------
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Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 6:15pm
fixed. ------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 9:31pm
There still are airborne trained assets, and Marines can attend the training. But I can't find any info on Force Recon being disbanded. I know they started doing integration into SOCOM, but under a Marine version of it, which is why they were still part of MEU SOCs. Atleast that's how it was explained to me. Alot can change in 2 years, they might have finished the integration. Where's Snake when you need him? -------------
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Posted By: Snipa69
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 4:13am
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I was (and currently am due to possible reactivation/extension) in the 1st Recon Battalion, 1st Marine Division. My best advice to you is to just do a quick web browser search on Marine Reconnaissance and you will find quite a few links that give you a list of requirements that you have to meet in order to even be considered for a recon position. ------------- http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/857/sig9ac6cs1mj.jpg - |
Posted By: TRAVELER
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 8:55am
The Rangers have always been part of SOCOM. Recon/force recon are, or were interchangeable, and their training was identical to Ranger training. Marine recon personnel are parachute trained at Fort Benning, but the Marine Corps does not really have much in the way of static-line airborne troop delivery equipment. Troops are generally delivered by choppers and fast ropes, pretty much the same way the Rangers do it. But Ranger units are always located at airfields, and these airfields always have airborne delivery aircraft on hand when a particular Ranger Battalion is on rotation. ------------- For I will wander to and fro, I'll go where I no one do know, |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 10:19am
Recon and Force Recon are NOT interchangeable, they are 2 separate groups. That's like saying 10th Mountain and Green Berets are interchangeable. -------------
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Posted By: Bolt3
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 2:21pm
Zing! *High fives* ------------- <Removed sig for violation of Clause 4 of the New Sig Rules> |
Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 9:26pm
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I graduated from Ranger School class 2/86.
The answers that Traveler have given are pretty much dead nuts accurate from what I recall. I was in 1/75th for about 2 years, got hurt, ended up in the 82nd...stayed infantry though (2/325). RLTW ------------- RLTW |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 10:12pm
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Brihard:
Papers came in today that said I will officially be a Canadian Forces Officer next Saturday. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: TRAVELER
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 4:33am
Read http://www.forcerecon.com/reconfaq.htm From the USMC's own site "Basic training paths for Marines in both units are similar". ------------- For I will wander to and fro, I'll go where I no one do know, |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 11:29am
Dude, I was in 2 Marine Expeditionary Units (special operations Capable) I know your Google-Fu is strong but that's now how things go down at the Fleet. ForceRecon.com isnt a USMC website if it was it would be ForceRecon.mil, it's the homepage of the force recon association. Force Recon Marines have way more training than Regular Recon Marines. Specially on the shooting aspect than normal Recon Marines. The reason they are Force is because they are assigned to either 1 MEF or 2 MEF (Marine Expeditionary Force) that means that they are assigned mission down from Division. While Regular Recon companies get attached to Marine Expeditionary Units wich consist of a Battalion Landing team, and a Air wing element with 6 cobras and 4 harriers. Regular Recon Marines work with the Battalion Landing Team doing Reconnaissance work. while they both have similar training they are not Interchangeable. (as you start as a Recon Marine and after a few years in Recon you can be Selected for Force or now what's the Marine Corps Special Operations Battalions. Same way that SF personnel are drawn from elite army units such as Rangers or 10th Mountain div. Only time you see MEF's moved is in time of war or some serious operation that needs a few Regiments of Marines running arround. While MEU's are always forward deployed. -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 4:01pm
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You poor, miserable bastard. Congratulations. Any word on trade? On another note, as best as I can determine, only your first year should be at CMR St-Jean. RMC is both under renovations and is also overcrowded, and they're trying to bring more ROTP students back out of civilian universities. In either case, you'll probably only be there for a year, then it's Kingston. Funny coincidence, my dad's a CMR St-Jean alumni. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 4:11pm
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So, Carl is going to be Bri's superior? -------------
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 4:19pm
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The word 'superior' is thrown around far too easily these days. In either case, any NCO worth his rank knows how to deal with freshly minted officers. And any freshly minted officer worth the time and money invested in him knows when to listen to his NCOs, and when to avoid stepping on their toes. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
But yes, four years from now when he's actually commissioned he will have a certain legal authority higher than mine- though he won't be in my trade or my unit. I doubt he and I will ever meet professionally.Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 5:20pm
Trade doesn't happen till next year. Nope, four years at RMC St Jean. It was only closed in the first place because of budget cuts but now that there seems to be a trend the other way, (thanks to the C team) i'd assume it's here to stay. Like I said, it is not the prep year, I am just being sent to Quebec instead of Kingston. Yes, they are renovating Kingston to make room for more students to go to RMC but that is why they are reopening St Jean. They are completely redoing the place too. When I visited it, I counted at least twelve football fields. 
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Posted By: Ken Majors
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 7:04pm
...I know I've been away from the Army a long time....but since when is the 10th mountain elite?? Just curious.... 'cause those poor bastards got lost in Dahlonega....almost froze to death.....although, that was a long time ago. Perhaps things have changed. ------------- RLTW |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 11:12pm
When I trained with them in the late 90's they where starting to get all High Speed Low Drag. We trained in Norway for two weeks and they certainly held their own for a bunch of Army Dudes. I had buddies who came back from Afghanistan that had told me that they preferred working with the 10th Mountain that Rangers. -------------
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 11:29pm
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Didja have fun? ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 12:42am
Besides the cold weather MRE's specially for someone who had never eaten oatmeal before ... Norway was just one notch above Africa in the Suck Meter. Better Question would be .. Why do people in modern day and times live in such Suck Holes. I mean .. why don't we all live by the Equator? edit not me but Not as fun as it looks. Neither is skying with all that crap on.  -------------
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 1:17am
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lol :) You're saying this doesn't look like a vacation destination to you?
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Posted By: TRAVELER
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 9:24am
I spent some time at Fort Rucker (home of the 10th), and I saw them in action in Africa. I was underwhelmed. The first bad sign was when they were unable to keep up with us on a Monday run. Monday runs are the slowest and the shortest, had they gone out with us on a Friday, they would have all been vomiting alongside the road. Some of their NCOs tried to transfer to our battalion, but not one of them was able to complete RIP. The 10th didn't care much for working with Rangers either. The feeling was mutual. ------------- For I will wander to and fro, I'll go where I no one do know, |
Posted By: rockerdoode
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 4:56pm
I'm in Rainbow 6 Team 2. Suck it, biatch. ------------- "According to Sue Johanson, theres nothing that can increase your manhood, trust me I've already looked into it for myself." -Zata |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 5:59pm
I don't see girls in Bikinis so I'd wager No. -------------
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