Rev Matching
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=176908
Printed Date: 18 June 2025 at 8:30pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rev Matching
Posted By: Uncle Rudder
Subject: Rev Matching
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 9:31pm
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When you downshift do you rev match? Google told me that its good, then later google said it was bad for the clutch. Google has also given me mixed answer on if in a manual trans car when coasting you use no gas and that the momentum of the car moves the pistons up and down.
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Replies:
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 9:33pm
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Auto > *
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Posted By: pntbl freak
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 9:52pm
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I dont know what you mean.
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Posted By: vash357
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 9:52pm
| I would think not rev matching would damage the clutch. I know it's a hell of alot smoother to rev match than just dump the clutch. As for the no gas when coasting thing, that probly depends on the car. |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:00pm
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Down shifting you should always get the rpm up as not to blow up your clutch. Its just like reving too high and dumping the clutch. As for coasting, if you are coasting you might as well just put in on the clutch and let it idle. Unless of course your are braking using your transmission. Then the car will actually move the pistons for the engine, however you are still using the gas that you would normally use in an idle state. So yes, you will still use gas. |
Posted By: im_new
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:13pm
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coast to save on gas, gear down to save on brakes ------------- 98 custom pro e-trigger flatline torque loader tippmann expansion chamber |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:37pm
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I didn't know matching was optional. Seems rather silly and uncomfortable not to match. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: xXK1CK1NVV1NGXx
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:54pm
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LOL what, I donn't really know what you mean, I just wait till I am at the correct spead and then down shift unless I am purposley downshifting early to break with the transmission.
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:58pm
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Out of the car thread. Now. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Da Hui wrote:Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:01pm
Agreed though paddle shifting is pretty awesome. Screw manual shifting ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:17pm
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You have SO much more control over your car if it's manual. Don't knock it till you've tried it. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:34pm
Such as? I hear that from everyone but I'm not sure it would be something that i'd notice at all. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:09am
You really just have to drive a manual to understand. Not to mention, manual transmissions are fun as hell. |
Posted By: .357 Magnum
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:13am
What !??!!? Your pistons are always moving up and down. If they weren't moving your motor would not be running. ------------- 
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:21am
| I would think keeping the car in gear while going downhill would use more gas than having the car in neutral. Lower RPMs means less gas. |
Posted By: Pate
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:24am
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If you are out of gear, the motor is just idling cause its not making the connection with the rest of the drivetrain.
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It feels good to be a gangster |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:05am
also, i rev match. sometimes, mainly when im shifting up, i wont even use the clutch, just slip it from one gear to the next. ------------- 
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:14am
Couldn't I just downshift? ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:17am
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to an extent. also with a manual you can get far better gas mileage than with an automatic. -------------
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Posted By: .636
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:37am
Rambs, your just a young kid who thinks its cool and bad ass to have a car thats manual. There is no need for a manual transmission car these days unless you want to look cool infront of your friends. When your coasting there is still fuel going into the engine. Same amount of fuel as when you are idling. ------------- |
Posted By: Alberto411
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:48am
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Do it. Not only will it preserve your clutch, synchros etc in theory, but it will also prevent your car from 'bucking' upsetting the motion of the vehicle.
A lot of the high-tech paddle-shifters rev-match for you if one is so inclined to that much baller-status. http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html - Heel-Toe FTW /thread [Drive/ practice safely if you're still new at all these techniques :) ] ------------- WRX by 4, GSXR by 2 "I came, I saw, I lurked..." - Me |
Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:59am
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Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 3:15am
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YOU GOTTA DUBBLE CLUTCH TO WIN THE RACE
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Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 3:18am
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 8:31am
The laws of physics mean that cannot be true.
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Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:38am
The laws of better gear ratios mean that can be. Also, to Styro asking how to fit two clutches on an Eclipse RS......WHAT!?! ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:41am
My feet are kinda big for heel-toe, but manual> auto in almost all cases. The exceptions would be heavy traffic and some of the nice SMG's out there. My grandpa bought an MX-5 with the 6-speed paddle shifting, it's pretty nice and shifts faster than I can. The fact that not everyone can drive one would theoretically make it less likely to get stolen. I know if my rents had automatics when I was a teenager I would have been joyriding. |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:47am
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They mean you can get better gas mileage; not "far better" gas mileage.
Some manuals are 6 gear. Not all. This is the biggest factor. *EDIT #2* Also, you can get 6-speed automatics. And by lighter we're talking parts of a percent; it's just a lighter transmission. I agree that you could get slightly better gas mileage than with an automatic...or at least than someone who's driving inefficiently with an automatic. The biggest factor in gas efficiency is your foot. *EDIT* Also, Google "manual vs. automatic gas mileage", and there's a couple articles that point out essentially what I just said (one points out that EPA MPG is almost negligibly different on a wide variety of vehicles, specifically the ones that are actually fuel efficient). Kicking used "break" instead of "brake". I've used engine breaking as well; but rarely. You have breaks for a reason, and they're much cheaper than your clutch (or, at least mine are much cheaper than my clutch). |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:49am
I know this isn't what this thread is about, but I think there's potential for an interesting discussion regarding parents teaching their kids to drive stick. The merits of having that valuable skill, potentially in an emergency, or having the ability to drive a sports car (more likely to be a manual) far faster than they should be. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:51am
I have heard that too Can you explain how that works? ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:52am
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I would like to clarify my earlier comment. I am not opposed to automatic transmissions. The right transmission on the right car can be very nice, and in some circumstances, like rush traffic or drag racing, an automatic transmission is generally preferable. My point is that when discussing joy-driving, when rev-matching and heel-toe are on the menu, casual dismissal of manuals is tantamount to trolling. Automatic transmissions may be more practical for most American driving, but manuals are just so much more fun and exciting. And when we are talking driving excitement, autos are not part of the equation. My personal view, BTW, is that SMGs are almost as bad as automatics. I grant that performance-wise they can be impressive, but I want a clutch. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:54am
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Meh, if you're into racing, then sure, get a manual.
But other than that, I see no reason to. What do I really get out of having to shift all the time? |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:09pm
An extra thing to worry about and a worn down clutch? ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:19pm
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You get greater feel of driving and greater contact with the car, and greater control over movement. For people who view cars as transportation, I agree that auto is the only way. For people who enjoy the actual act of driving, people who go looking for curvy roads - those people will anjoy it MORE with a stick. And, of course, there is slick-surface driving, but that is another matter. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:26pm
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So I don't enjoy driving for pleasure because I have an Auto? -------------
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Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:29pm
Like whoever posted under me said; "absolute throttle control". In an auto, when you go to pass, you slam on the gas pedal, volvo refers to it as 'kick shifting' or something to that effect, and the car downshifts for you. It feels uncomfortable, it jerks the car around, and it's slow. If you were in a manual, it'd be faster, and easier. Not to mention, you choose the RPM's at which you upshift / downshift, so you can either drive efficiently or get the most out of your engine. |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:31pm
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Whenever I want more control, I just drop into the low gears on my automatic. The two cars I drive with any frequency are a Volvo V70 and a Volvo S60; neither one of them is a sports car by any means, but I'm a fast driver, and I like driving.
I'm all for tiptronic/etronic/geartronic/whatever else you wanna call it, but driving a straight up stick is just a hassle. The only reason I can see to get a stick would be if it was for track driving.
There's lots of ways to get around that without a manual transmission. A)Manumatic: having used only Audi and Volvo manumatics, I enjoyed both, and noticed little discernible difference from a standard manual. B)Shift...down. I have yet to meet a car that doesn't have at least 1st-3rd gears in the gear shift. Some have 1st-4th. If you don't want kick-down, just shift for yourself, or time your passing better. |
Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:35pm
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I normally shuffle between our S60, and our CTS, and that is essentially the same thing...without the clutch. You may as well just buy a manual car if you're going to drive like that. It becomes second nature after a while. In the city, stick is awful, but if you're anywhere outside, it's pretty fun if you enjoy driving, which it seems like you do. To me, it's all about getting the most out of your car, and we appear to be the same age, so I'd say that our S60's aren't the fastest thing in the world, but dammit if we don't drive them like Ferraris |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:38pm
That's kinda relative to the car/transmission, don't you think? My auto is buttery smooth.
It's not hard to learn the behavior of your automatic. I can get mine to shift right when I want it to just with throttle position, and I don't have to think about it the rest of the time. |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:41pm
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Either you are not fully comfortable with a stick, or we are thinking "driving for pleasure" means entirely different things. I enjoy communing with my car. I don't want too much technology between me and the road. I enjoy driving without power steering, with hard shocks so I can feel the road, and with a clutch so I decide what goes on inside. Manual transmission is not just about gear selection - you can do that with most modern autos. If you think that selecting a lower gear on the auto is the same as driving a stick, then we are just talking about two entirely different things. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:42pm
| Once you get used to your car you can do that, but it constantly upshifts when I'm not ON the throttle hard, obviously to get better gas mileage, or put less stress on the engine. But it's not being able to get a hang of it, it's having complete control, which no matter what you say, is not what you have when you're trying to manipulate the throttle. Both of my cars shift smooth, but when it downshifts to accelerate, it's not a smooth downshift, most auto's aren't. |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:46pm
Fair enough but It's still not enough to make me go amnual. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:49pm
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I fully appreciate the benefits and the preference to have a manual, but I
think you're being unfair to automatics. If my truck was a stick, I'd probably shift nearly identically to the way my automatic does now. There are only a couple situations when my auto doesn't shift extraordinarily smoothly. The only things I feel like I'm missing out on by not having a stick in my truck are more efficient power transfer (better milage, quicker) and the fifth gear (5spd manual versus 4spd auto). |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:51pm
That really depends on the vehicle. I can think of several vehicles where the Auto versions get better gas mileage. One of them being my truck. -------------
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Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:53pm
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Fair enough for both Carl and hball. I see where both are desirable, my S60 is auto, and it's really smooth unless it's downshifting and such. It also has no sport function for when you DO want to have some fun. I guess it amounts to the auto does what you want perfectly (just about), but to have absolute control, you have to deal with the pains of a clutch. Fair enough? |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 12:58pm
The auto-manual gearboxes (SMG, etc) are quite good for this, as much as some may view it as cheating. |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:03pm
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The S60 I drive doesn't have Geartronic; just a straight 5-speed automatic.
The only times I've used Geartronic/Tiptronic (Volvo/Audi) were to joyride; I've yet to find an actual use for them. My hope is that someday I'll have enough money to have a track car and a commuter, but that's far and away in the future. I don't have a need to have complete control over my car; to me, it's an animal that needs to be tamed. I just want it to go where I want it to go, when I want it to go, and I have no problems with any of the cars I've driven doing that. I definitely don't want/need some sort of spiritual connection. It's just a tool to me. |
Posted By: Alberto411
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:47pm
Dom: You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your car... Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should... ------------- WRX by 4, GSXR by 2 "I came, I saw, I lurked..." - Me |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:51pm
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alberto ftw
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Posted By: xXK1CK1NVV1NGXx
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 4:01pm
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I would also like to throw out there that with a manual you can choose how smooth of a shift you make. I know that with 99% of my friends automatic cars you can feel the shift, with my truck and other friends cars if done correctly you will not feel the shift at all.
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 4:57pm
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I knew this one kid who had no clue how to drive a manual, and when he shifted it was like getting punch in the ass. That was a fun ride.
Honestly, I barely feel it when either of my Volvos shifts, unless I'm driving. |
Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 5:32pm
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rev matching is awesome. it extends the life of your clutch and makes downshifting so much smoother...you have to understand the relationship between the engine/clutch/transmission to understand. and for someone who lives in areas where winters are harsh, manuals pwn automatics in the snow, i love watching SUV's try to drive in the ice and snow... |
Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 5:34pm
Because a car with a 5 speed is known for its ability to drive in the snow better than a 4x4 Auto... -------------
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 5:40pm
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Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 5:59pm
living in southwestern ohio my whole life, i'd be willing to bet i could drive better in my 5-speed, FWD honduh better than some could in a 4x4 anything. 4wd doesn't help you slow down any better than FWD, or RWD for that matter, and an auto is always putting power to the wheels, so your brakes have to fight the drivetrain as well as your rolling inertia. now getting started is another thing: i'll agree you'd be able to give it alot more throttle quicker and not have to worry about spinning the tires, but in a situation like that (6+ inches of snow/ice on the road) you don't wanna go fast anyway... edit: rofl at barrel break's post |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:03pm
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where in sw ohio are you?
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:04pm
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I have yet to have any amount of snow stop my Suburban in 4x4...
...my Volvo, on the other hand, is only 5 inches off the ground, and is stopped by small twigs. |
Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:09pm
cincinnati. last year---a foot of snow + TONS OF HILLS = tons of fun. I just love the driving experience, no matter what i'm doing. the more i can be a part of the experience, the better. |
Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:10pm
you're smart enough to at least get an SUV with 4wd. i can't tell you the number of people in RWD Tahoes, Suburbans, etc. i've had to dig out/push up our street cause they can't drive them in the snow. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:12pm
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OMG OMG OMG IM FROM CINCINNATI
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Posted By: Da Hui
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:13pm
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4x4 + Studded Tires = Snow Killer
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Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:13pm
| I was in Cincinnati a month ago (well, little bit more now, June 13th-15th) for US Junior Rowing Nationals. Didn't really do much but stay in the hotel and go go-karting once. You keep your airport in a strange place. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:16pm
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so what if Cincinnati airport is in kentucky?
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Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:18pm
^werd. I wish i could get ahold of the tires Subaru uses in their snow rallies. all seasons will do for now...
yes...the great city of Cincinnati, where the Greater Cincinnati Airport isn't even in Cincinnati....or Ohio for that matter. It's in KENTUCKY. it's a wierd city, but i love it here. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:19pm
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east or west side?
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Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:20pm
| west side...but i go to school on the east side. |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:20pm
Kentucky's for horses. Ohio's for...honestly, I'm not sure. But something. Not horses. Silly life getting in the way and ruining all my neatly divided states. Tsk tsk tsk. I have a brother who lives in Montana, and they have a good amount of snow there. I'd love to go visit some winter...maybe after college. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:23pm
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yeah this thread is officially hi-jacked. and dont tell me you go to X -------------
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Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:26pm
psh....Xavier? puuullllleeeeeeeaaaase. that answer should tell you where I go. technically my school is on the west side, but the UC college of applied science is on the east side-ish. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:32pm
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oh you're in college lol
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 12:25pm
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Predatorr
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 12:38pm
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DC? in the haus? Pariel, what school do you row for? |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 12:46pm
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Come to think of it, Ohio has a decent selection of regs in T&O. Myself .Ryan Dune Uncle Rudder Jim Paint Bracecoward Rockslide FlimFlam SumoMonkey, if anyone remembers him Hway Pepprdog I know I probably missed a few others. ------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Pariel
Date Posted: 18 July 2008 at 12:57pm
Used to row for Mercer Juniors. I'm going to Boston University now though. |
Posted By: Uncle Rudder
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:57am
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I am very proud of myself, I finally can heal and toe shift flawlessly. -------------
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Posted By: Beil
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 2:51pm
its kinda funny for me, I have fat feet (I wear 8.5 extra wide shoes), so alot of times I can brake as i'm approaching a corner, push the clutch pedal with my left foot, and, while still breaking, pivot my right foot sideways and rev match with the right edge of my shoe. ------------- I do it fast, slow, hard, and easy. I sometimes even do it in the woods. Yeah, I'm a runner. |
Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:50pm
That's not much different from heel-and-toe... (I'm assuming you stay on the brake with your right while your matching revs)... I. Want. A. Manual. Badly. As for the whole efficiency thing; it's inherent to the design of the system. A clutch fully locked up (engaged) yields 100% transmission of torque from the input to the output of it, as it behaves as one solid unit. A torque converter is intrinsically unable to do that. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this  (though granted, other reasons are usually more important)------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45 
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 11:00pm
Except for the ones that are made to do that. |
Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 11:03pm
Not exactly. True, many can lock up, but it isn't the same as a clutch. The torque converter locks up when the car deems it appropriate, not when the driver does. For example, sudden acceleration will often unlock a torque converter. It wont unlock a clutch unless you want it to. ------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 11:54pm
So....why not have a manual if get better performance by shifting in your automatic. |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 12:39am
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Posted By: .357 Magnum
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 10:47am
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This threads still going ? The main reason people are getting after market torque converters is for the drag strip. Generally they engage at higher RPMs thus letting you rev higher for a harder launch. -------------
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