Halp
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Which Gun is Best
Forum Description: Need Advice? Ask the pros.
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=177391
Printed Date: 13 July 2025 at 10:43am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Halp
Posted By: Phantom Helix
Subject: Halp
Date Posted: 11 August 2008 at 3:20pm
First off, hello.
Long time lurker, first time poster and just had a few questions. I had done some snooping around prior but couldn't seem to find something exactly the same as what I was looking for.
Let me start off by saying that I currently own an A-5 and a few old Brass Eagle guns(2x Tallon, Stingray, Avenger, Raptor to name a few), but I've started to take a new interest in pump guns again. Granted, I own the two tallons, but they've through hell and I'd be afraid even attempt putting in a CO2 cartridge in, let alone fire them.
So, my question is this: Is the Tippmann's C-3 pump good? Or would it be recommended to get a Phantom or something? Perhaps a cheap WGP and convert it to pump?
Money shouldn't be to big of a problem, assuming it doesn't go over something like 400$.
Please, some comment and suggestions.
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Replies:
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 11 August 2008 at 6:04pm
The C-3 is inferior in almost every way to the pumps you mentioned. The C-3's only real advantage is it's efficiency. 50K shots on a 16 oz. tank of propane is amazing, but the marker is still very heavy, unreliable and not exactly smooth.
What type of pump play are you interested in? Stock class (15 rd. feed tubes and 12g CO2) would be better suited with the Phantom, and open class (bulk tanks and hoppers) would be better met with the Sniper (WGP pump).
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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 11 August 2008 at 7:26pm
 DeTrevni wrote:
Stock class (15 rd. feed tubes and 12g CO2) would be better suited with the Phantom, and open class (bulk tanks and hoppers) would be better met with the Sniper (WGP pump). |
Have to disagree with the above statement. The Phantom has an auto-trigger, meaning that in an emergency one can operate it significantly faster than a Sniper which doesn't. (At least the older ones and the conversions; I'm not certain about the newer ones.) Furthermore, I run a Phantom with a 50 round hopper and a 13 cu. in. air tank in open play against semi/full-auto markers and it works fine. The one advantage the Phantom probably does have for stock class play is a small light frame and available modifications which can make the marker quite minuscule.
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 2:59am
Well, I'm gonna have to stand by what I said, to be quite honest. If you're building a top of the line Sniper, then you'll most likely get a CCM kit, which fully supports auto-trigger if you don't buy the entire kit (which includes the pump kit, auto-trigger and a frame). The advantage the Sniper has over the Phantom is parts availability. CCI makes some excellent products, but the Phantom is a very niche market, as it's the only true Nelson still in production, excepting Carters. The Sniper is 'cocker based (well, actually, the 'cocker is Sniper based, but we'll save that for another time), which means you can interchange, upgrade, replace and modify almost every single aspect of your marker from a plethora of after-market parts. This gives very fine control over the setup of your marker. Also, many people prefer the vertical feed Sniper platforms. Also also, a properly springed Sniper has probably the smoothest pump stroke on the market. Even stock, unspringed Snipers have a superior stroke to Phantoms, IMO.
As for stock class, the Phantom is almost superior in every way to the Sniper. Lighter, more efficient, and more compact.
Now I'm not saying Phantoms can't be used for open class, and while you may have a decent open class Phantom, I personally feel the Sniper is far superior to the Phantom for open class.
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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 10:44am
DeTrevni wrote:
. . . a CCM kit, which fully supports auto-trigger if you don't buy the entire kit (which includes the pump kit, auto-trigger and a frame).
That is something I didn't know that I'm glad to hear as a Sniper of some type is still on my "want" list.
The advantage the Sniper has over the Phantom is parts availability.
Have to disagree there. CCI provides outstanding support for replacement parts and some upgrades while there are several after-market sites that support additional upgrades. While there is probably more available for the WGP based products just because of years of 'Cocker production the options for Phantoms are not that limited either. (The one place the Snipers do have an advantage in this area is in barrel availability.)
CCI makes some excellent products, but the Phantom is a very niche market, as it's the only true Nelson still in production, excepting Carters.
As I pointed out it is still supported.
The Sniper is 'cocker based (well, actually, the 'cocker is Sniper based, but we'll save that for another time),
I would have made fun of you if you hadn't included the last caveat.
which means you can interchange, upgrade, replace and modify almost every single aspect of your marker from a plethora of after-market parts. This gives very fine control over the setup of your marker. Also, many people prefer the vertical feed Sniper platforms.
Phantom bodies are available in left, center, right and several stock class feed configurations.
Also also, a properly springed Sniper has probably the smoothest pump stroke on the market. Even stock, unspringed Snipers have a superior stroke to Phantoms, IMO.
Opinion only. Although, any "properly springed" marker is going to be superior to any stock pump set up in this area. (My Phantom pump action was nice when I got it, but some fiddling and modification has made it downright sweet.)
As for stock class, the Phantom is almost superior in every way to the Sniper. Lighter, more efficient, and more compact.
I can only partially agree here. It applies to unmodified Phantoms and Snipers, but I remember seeing a custom stock class Sniper body that was unbelievable. (The weight advantage the Phantom has is still hard to overcome though.)
Now I'm not saying Phantoms can't be used for open class, and while you may have a decent open class Phantom, I personally feel the Sniper is far superior to the Phantom for open class.
And I feel you are wrong and may be slightly prejudiced by the fact that you are a 'Cocker fan. We will probably have to agree to disagree here. (The one advantage that I do feel the 'Cocker has for open class play is that the heavier body balances better with and can better handle the weight of larger tanks.)
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 9:33pm
Mack wrote:
DeTrevni wrote:
. . . a CCM kit, which fully supports auto-trigger if you don't buy the entire kit (which includes the pump kit, auto-trigger and a frame).
That is something I didn't know that I'm glad to hear as a Sniper of some type is still on my "want" list.
Actually, I think Sniper A/T's have been around for a while, but only as custom jobs.
The advantage the Sniper has over the Phantom is parts availability.
Have to disagree there. CCI provides outstanding support for replacement parts and some upgrades while there are several after-market sites that support additional upgrades. While there is probably more available for the WGP based products just because of years of 'Cocker production the options for Phantoms are not that limited either. (The one place the Snipers do have an advantage in this area is in barrel availability.)
I never said Phantoms weren't supported. I've talked to Mike, and he's a great guy, but it's still niche. Especially when you're going to compare it to the after-market support of 'cockers, and not just OEM. Every single component of the 'cocker can be replaced, upgraded, selected, modified and just over-all changed. And regardless of the reason, the point is the Sniper simply has more options.
CCI makes some excellent products, but the Phantom is a very niche market, as it's the only true Nelson still in production, excepting Carters.
As I pointed out it is still supported.
As I pointed out, I never said it wasn't. 
The Sniper is 'cocker based (well, actually, the 'cocker is Sniper based, but we'll save that for another time),
I would have made fun of you if you hadn't included the last caveat.
Come now. There's always a little method to my madness. I pride myself in knowing the history of such a beautiful marker. 
which means you can interchange, upgrade, replace and modify almost every single aspect of your marker from a plethora of after-market parts. This gives very fine control over the setup of your marker. Also, many people prefer the vertical feed Sniper platforms.
Phantom bodies are available in left, center, right and several stock class feed configurations.
As are Snipers. And the only center feed Phantom bodies I've seen were custom jobs, which were usually tall enough to negate the profile advantage the Phantom had.
Also also, a properly springed Sniper has probably the smoothest pump stroke on the market. Even stock, unspringed Snipers have a superior stroke to Phantoms, IMO.
Opinion only.
Not necessarily. The smoothness of a pump stroke is an inherent property. It may not be one's preferred pump stroke, which is opinion, but there's no arguing a difference in feel.
Although, any "properly springed" marker is going to be superior to any stock pump set up in this area. (My Phantom pump action was nice when I got it, but some fiddling and modification has made it downright sweet.)
Granted, but I'm still comparing a properly springed Phantom to a properly springed Sniper. Well, to be honest, I didn't know you could "spring" a Phantom. I know there's a break-in period, but still.
As for stock class, the Phantom is almost superior in every way to the Sniper. Lighter, more efficient, and more compact.
I can only partially agree here. It applies to unmodified Phantoms and Snipers, but I remember seeing a custom stock class Sniper body that was unbelievable. (The weight advantage the Phantom has is still hard to overcome though.)
The most efficient I've EVER heard a Sniper being is ~35 shots on a single 12g. I've heard Phantoms hitting 50. It's really no contest, at least in my personal experiences.
Now I'm not saying Phantoms can't be used for open class, and while you may have a decent open class Phantom, I personally feel the Sniper is far superior to the Phantom for open class.
And I feel you are wrong and may be slightly prejudiced by the fact that you are a 'Cocker fan.
Funny, I was gonna accuse you of the same thing with Phantoms. 
We will probably have to agree to disagree here.
Absolutely no fun.
(The one advantage that I do feel the 'Cocker has for open class play is that the heavier body balances better with and can better handle the weight of larger tanks.)
That, and some people like a little more meat. I've heard people being really turned off to Phantoms because of a "toyish" feel. Like I said, it's personal preference.
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A little healthy arguing never did anyone wrong. No hard feelings! 
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Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"
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Posted By: t_hop
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 10:57pm
damnnnn son, you just got hit with the **edited** slap emoticon
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"I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum."
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 11:22pm
DeTrevni wrote:
A little healthy arguing never did anyone wrong. No hard feelings! |
Of course not. (No hugs though . . . I've heard about your problem keeping your hands above the waist!)
Regarding "springing" the Phantom. I assume we're both talking about modifying the tension on the pump arm return spring so that it is "perfect" for the user. This is the one place where you have to go outside the paintball world for parts. I've never seen after-market springs for this, but you can find springs that work at the hardware store. Additionally, adjusting the nut on the pump arm and how far the arm is screwed into the handle allows for very precise alterations in pump return tension. (Some people prefer to run without the return spring, but it just doesn't feel right to me.)
Edit: You can get factory center feed bodies from CCI.
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Posted By: Phantom Helix
Date Posted: 17 August 2008 at 12:45pm
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Well, thank you for the help. Wasn't to sure about the C3, but thanks for the heads up on it. I'll start looking around for good deals(Though, the only place I've been able to find where to buy Phantoms at seems to be their own website, and even then you have to call)
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Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 18 August 2008 at 11:30am
Action Village has some in stock, but they're about/over $300 last time I checked.
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