Russia/Georgia Thoughts
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Category: News And Views
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Printed Date: 14 January 2026 at 11:58pm
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Topic: Russia/Georgia Thoughts
Posted By: oldsoldier
Subject: Russia/Georgia Thoughts
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 10:52am
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Putin had mentioned many times while he was the President of the Russian Federation his goal was the unifacation of what was the old Soviet Union into a soveriegn nation again. Now as PM with a puppet President to take the heat, as well as the pro west stance of Georgia, the pretense of the two break away regions of Georgia wanting to return to the Russian Sphere, the "preplanned" operation was initiated. The level and speed of this assault is not an kneejerk response but a well rehearsed pre-planned invasion/occupation to return one of the old Soviet States back into the sphere. Also being in the Caucuses oil rich area (light crude) it is in Russia's best interest to occupy the oil fields for thier increasing domestic needs. Russian military expansion is still happening, new weapon systems coming on line, Russian Nationalism returning, and a leadership still trying to return Russia to the level of power of the old Soviet Union days.
An example of a Russian Airborne recruiting "Commercial" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw Return to pride in Russian military service and recruitment over conscription. |
Replies:
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 11:10am
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There is no way that is really to recruit people. lmao youtube comments: " If the Russian army was seriously like this... i never would of joined" ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 11:11am
| In Soviet Russia... |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 11:20am
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1) Glad to see you've somewhat recovered (at least to the point where you can post). 2) While the return to the USSR is a valid concern, it's not evil to influence a rise in nationalism. 3) I agree that it's definitely a planned maneuver. There's no way all that fighting was just a quick response to the conflict. 4) Thank you for giving me what is now my favorite song  ------------- 
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Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 11:42am
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I agree with Tolgak, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but here's how I see it. Nationalism isn't evil, it's they way they (the Russian government) promotes and uses it to their advantage. Restoring faith and confidence in your country is one thing, but attempting to reunite the Soviet Union is too far.
And I know someone in here is going to say something along the lines of, "The U.S. did the same thing to Iraq, blah blah blah." Just because the U.S. did it doesn't mean it was a right or wrong decision and that other countries are allowed to follow suit to what the U.S. does. |
Posted By: .357 Magnum
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 11:42am
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In Russia, this is how we fix things !
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 1:14pm
| Russian Nationalism is a tad bit differant than most other forms of Nationalism. More akin to National Socialism, we all remmember that historical exercise. Russians traditionally prefere a Czar, Commissar or Dictatorship any other form of leadership, that is when Russia has its most powerfull periods. After the recent Soviet experiment, the idea of Mother Russia being a world power if not the world power is re-emerging. Russia has a resurgent military and with many units returning to thier historical roots a Guards Units, etc. Do not underestimate Russia and thier Nationalism, another Soviet Union styled assembly of Eurasian states will have learned from its initial mistakes and a true world power with a distinct military theme will be seen again. |
Posted By: unvolution
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 1:23pm
| catchy tune |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 1:28pm
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Sadly, that godawful song in that video wouldn't inspire me nearly as much as "Полюшко Поле" would.
No, nationalism isn't bad per se, but the Russians have always had a very hard time of it when it comes to nationalism. You have to understand that what we call "Russia" these days is a federation of 83 federal subjects. You've got 21 Republics, 46 Oblasti (provinces), 9 krais (territories), 4 autonomous Okrugs (districts which are more autonomous than oblasts, but not as much as republics), 2 federal cities (St. Petersburg and Moscow), and one Autonomous Oblast which is the "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" which is a sad bit of irony that the name still remains considering Stalin sent all of them out there to die. Most of the Oblasts were divided along cultural lines the further south and east from Moscow you got. Ultimately that presents the problem of defining exactly what a "Russian" is. My Tatar friends consider themselves Russian. They speak Russian, they go to Russian universities in Kazan, but by many ethnic slavic Russians, they are considered to be second-class citizens due to their Tatar heritage. The same goes for the ethnic Kazakhs, Moldovans, Ukranians, Karelians, etc etc. that were uprooted and moved throughout Russia to populate it's sparse interior, the ethnic Russians despise most of them and treat them very poorly. This is what causes Russians to have such odd nationalistic habits. Due to the militaristic government that the nation has endured from day one, they are born followers that tend to be extremely jingoistic and supportive of the state no matter how badly they are treated. The Russian mindset is just unexplainable to anyone who hasn't studied them or sat down to have conversations with them. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 1:38pm
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"they are born followers" That is the second time I have heard that of Russians. The first time was from a former German Army Sergeant who fought them. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: impulse!
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 2:18pm
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Nothing beats our video music recruitment video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdT7njoka68 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdT7njoka68 ------------- 
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 2:20pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLSUdF2d_uI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLSUdF2d_uI
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 2:53pm
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I prefer the older videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H81Nna8fo5g - link ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Styro Folme
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 5:00pm
hahaha. |
tallen702 wrote:Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 5:34pm
 ------------- 
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 7:27pm
Specially since Walt Disney got a BCD (bad conduct discharge)discharge from the Marine Corps. He used to have it framed upside down in his office It can be seen in many of his pictures. ------------- 
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 10:03pm
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Not sure why a second thread was needed.... ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 10:10pm
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: White o Light
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 10:11pm
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I feel something brewing. ------------- 
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 12:03pm
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Notice how well the "negotiated" cease fire is working as Russian offensive operations still continue towards Tablisi in full combat mode. And now the accusations of typical Russian ethnic attrocities coming out of the area. And the official Russian answer is that the Russian Army needs to send in more tanks and APC's in to "escort" those forces deep in Georgian territory out, and of course the peaceniks are believing this bravo sierra.
"United forever in friendship and labour, Our mighty republics will ever endure. The Great Soviet Union will live through the ages. The dream of a people their fortress secure. Long live our Soviet motherland, Built by the people's mighty hand. Long live our people, united and free. Strong in our friendship tried by fire. Long may our crimson flag inspire, Shining in glory for all men to see. Through days dark and stormy where Great Lenin lead us Our eyes saw the bright sun of freedom above And Stalin our leader with faith in the people, Inspired us to build up the land that we love. Long live our Soviet motherland, Built by the people's mighty hand. Long live our people, united and free. Strong in our friendship tried by fire. Long may our crimson flag inspire, Shining in glory for all men to see. We fought for the future, destroyed the invaders, And brought to our homeland the laurels of fame. Our glory will live in the memory of nations And all generations will honour her name. Long live our Soviet motherland, Built by the people's mighty hand. Long live our people, united and free. Strong in our friendship tried by fire. Long may our crimson flag inspire, Shining in glory for all men to see." http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/sounds/mp3/soviet-anthem_en.mp3 - http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/sounds/mp3/soviet-anthe m_en.mp3 |
Posted By: White o Light
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 12:06pm
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I was at a trivia night at a restaurant called the mellow mushroom last night,
and one of the team names was "Putin Is Like Ray Charles, He Has Georgia On His Mind". Pretty clever. -------------
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Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 7:52am
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Quote: ..the pretense of the two break away regions of Georgia wanting to return to the Russian Sphere, the "preplanned" operation was initiated. The level and speed of this assault is not an kneejerk response but a well rehearsed pre-planned invasion/occupation to return one of the old Soviet States back into the sphere. Also being in the Caucuses oil rich area (light crude) it is in Russia's best interest to occupy the oil fields for thier increasing domestic needs.
My dearest, your speculations are nothing but funny...You are just the victims of your own politics games and informative war initiated by the West against Russia. You get no idea what has been happening in the region because your own leaders lie to you and conceal the facts which reveal the truth but which, of course, contradict their version of the events. You know, sometimes it is hard to believe we live in 21st century - with so much outrageous lie, hypocrisy and rotten politics we encounter day by day... Do you really want to know what has been going on? It is true that both Georgia and Ossetia (and Abkhazia) used to be the part of the former Soviet Union. What is more, there were the part of pre-revolutionary Russia - they pled with Russia for help against powerful Turkey as early as 19th century and Russia helped them by adjoining these territories and fighting against Turks in several wars. At that time all these Caucasus nations were grateful for that. Later on Lenin presented the part of South Ossetia to Georgia (against the will of the nation)- who cared about the will of people at that time? Besides, it was one state which was believed to be united for ever. The same happened with the Crimea in 1960-ties which long before was the territory of Russia (not Ukraine). Ossetians never wanted to be the part of Georgia and they never lost their gratitude to Russia for its support all through these years (unlike Georgians who separated from the Soviet Union as soon as the opportunity sprang up). But Russians have nothing against Georgians with whom we have strong cultural and religious connections (our nations are both orthodox)... this is only a criminal politics of their president leading the nation to hell. Now back to Aug, 8th... Maybe you know that Georgia had already fought with Ossetians as early as 1993 and ruined the region. They failed to subdue a nation which hates them. Not long before this August, Georgian president declared that he would never assault his own nation - but which he successfully did at night of Aug, 8. During this assault Georgians killed about 2000 pcs casualties - all !!! peaceful people - there was nobody else to attack... Many witnessed (so did I in the news) such cruelty you can't even think of! An old Ossetian woman running with 2 small kids across the street to find some shelter and a Georgian tankman raking them with fire and then knocking them down and crushing them to death... bombing a peaceful city and not securing any kind of humanitarian route for bleeding peaceful people, children... All that Georgians ever wanted was to eliminate all people in the area to use the territory to its advantage - it's obvious, isn't it? What you saw in your newsblocks is (saying in your own words) a 'preplanned' scenario of this operation as if poor little Georgia was attacked by wicked Russia 'trying to occupy' a rich region... showing Ossetinian casualties and playing them off as Georgia under Russian invasion... Do you know that many Georgians soldiers were reservists deceived by their commanders and drawn into war, although they were said to go and take part in some military exercises? Do you know that Georgians mothers hate Saakashvili for having killed their sons? No, you will never know that - your government and your mass media will never allow you to be wide awake - about the reality... They are playing their game. Saakashvili would have never dared to start this assault, if there hadn't been an approval and protection of the States. The USA claim to be a democratic state where all the rights are preserved.. Don't you think that now you changed the roles with the former 'Soviet Union' where people were never in the know??? Nobody in the West wants to see Russia strong, they like it weak. Especially the US. That's the reason of all these fakes and distortions. Instead of getting together and being more human, people are getting mad and want to eliminate each other. Don't be like that - don't be guinea-pigs in this cold war. Open your eyes and your minds until it is too late... P.S.: just to mention that the whole Russian nation is sending now tons of humanitarian aid to Ossetia to help people recover from Georgian cruelty and the whole world accusing furiously Russia for its alleged occupation of small Georgia (no one peaceful man was killed in Georgia and Russian peace-making forces only attacked Georgian military bases to stop their aggression). It a wonderful word, isn’t it? ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 8:32am
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Sorry, wanted to say 'It is a wonderful world, isn't it? :) ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 9:41am
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So by "sending in humanitarian aid," you mean entrenching the area with missile batteries? ------------- 
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Posted By: JohnnyHopper
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 9:42am
Thank you comrad troll. I hope you DIAG(ulag) :) ------------- My shoes of peace have steel toes. |
Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:17am
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well, at least russia hasent used anny ICBM's yet.
------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:20am
Well, they wouldn't need to unless they were launched from Cuba... /nit-pick ------------- "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. " http://zombo.com/ - Most awesome site EVAR! |
Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:22am
------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:24am
| He's being nit-picky because Russia wouldn't need to use ICBMs, they are the long range missles. Georgia is a neighbor. |
Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:27am
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ICBM = Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles. Georgia and Russia are not only on the same continent, but right next door to each other. ------------- "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. " http://zombo.com/ - Most awesome site EVAR! |
Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:40am
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ahh i see. you know what i ment. im used to callin em ICBM's. ------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:01pm
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No, actually I don't know what you mean. Now I am thoroughly confused. What would you call ICBMs other than actual ICBMs? ------------- "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. " http://zombo.com/ - Most awesome site EVAR! |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:12pm
| SCUD missiles? |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:24pm
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Scuds aren't ICBM's. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:27pm
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Ballistic Missile?
Which raises the question: If someone on the eastern most part of Europe launches a ballistic missile into the western most part of Asia, let's say a distance of 1 mile, is the missile now an ICBM just because it crossed the border? Dun dun dunnnnn. ------------- 
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Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:31pm
I know this, but it would make more sense for Russia to use SCUD missiles rather than ICBMs. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:37pm
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Or they could use their artillery. or tanks. or air strikes. or their greatest resource of all, Man power. hundreds of thousands of Russian troops and conscripts rushing the front line... The SCUD is not very accurate. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 4:11pm
Chances are, you probably aren't even going to read my retort as it seems like Russians everywhere are simply flooding message boards with their jingoistic drivel these days, but here goes. Your statements are little more than hypocrisy dressed up to be правда. Of course, I'd think that all Russians and ex-Soviets would be less likely to swallow any правда from the Russian government or news organizations these days. After all, trusting the news and leaders in Russia from 1917 to 1992 is what got so many Soviets killed and imprisoned in the gulag for those 75 years. To say that our western leaders conceal and hide the truth but Putin and Medvedev tell the truth is astonishing, and proof to me that the people of the Russian Federation are little removed from the sheep-like followers of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics that preceded them.
Your quote is revisionist history at best. The lands of South Ossetia have been under Georgian control since the time of Queen Tamar the Great who reigned from 1184 -1213. Even after the Mongol invasion and the destruction of the original Kingdom of Georgia, the 4 separate crown states still occupied the lands of S. Ossetia. At no time did it exist as a separate country or region until the Soviet Union set it apart as an autonomous oblast in 1922. The Russian empire annexed the area and Georgia in 1801 in a bid to stop the Turks from invading. At no time was the are ever not under Georgian control until the USSR deemed the region an autonomous oblast.
I know very well that the average citizen of the Russian federation hold little to no ill-will against the Georgians. I am friends with many Russians, Tatars, etc. and several of them are room-mates with Georgians over here in the US. However, claiming that the President of Georgia is leading the nation to hell is unjustifiable. Not only has Georgia had to contend with the separatists in S. Ossetia, all the Georgian people and government have to do to see what the Russians think of their former territories that have broken away is look at the threats that Russia has continuously aimed at the Czech Republic, the Ukraine, Poland, and the Slovakian Republic, who all support NATO and the US Missile Defense System. Why, Medvedev and Putin just recently threatened nuclear war with Poland over the Polish acceptance of the US missile defense treaty. Has Mikheil Saakashvili done some dumb things as president of Georgia? Yes, but the Russians stepping in to stop Georgia from keeping S. Ossetia would be like the US stepping in to stop Russia from keeping Chechnya. If Russia's concerns are only about the welfare of the S. Ossetians, then why haven't they been equally concerned about the citizens of Grozny and the rest of Chechnya? Where were your cries of "ethnic cleansing" and "protecting innocent civilians" when your air force was busy dropping the most powerful non-nuclear weapons in the world on Grozny? Bah! Россия волк в овечьей шкуре!
Did your own news service tell you that the Ossetians were firing rockets and mortars into Georgia unprovoked? Did they tell you about the innocent civilians that they killed in those attacks? How about all of the innocent civilians that Russia killed when bombing apartment houses and privately owned ships in the port city of Poti? As for the "military" targets that you say Russia attacked, why did the Russians also attack the Georgian oil pipeline? There is no strategic value to the pipeline. It was destroyed solely to threaten the Georgian people's livelihood. Even when the US and coalition forces repelled the Iraqi army from Kuwait, we didn't attack their oil fields and pipelines. There's no reason for it in the art of war.
I'm glad to see that the propaganda machine is still turning out the Russian version of 'правда' these days, it doesn't look like they even slowed down with the fall of Communism. Obviously you don't watch the news programs here in the US properly or you'd realize that our network news (ABC, NBC, CBS) is very neutral when covering wars. It seems that the influence of Molotov never really died out in Russia. It's just so sad to see the Russian people swallow the lies that Putin and Medvedev continue to give them so easily.
In the US, we are given choices as to what we wish to believe. We continuously criticize our government, our military, and ourselves. To compare the US to the USSR is insane. Have you ever even read any soviet history? Do you realize that the current Russian regime of Medvedev and Putin mirrors the Soviet regimes of Stalin as the General Secretary of the Communist Party and Rykov and Molotov as the Chairmen of the Council of People's Commisars? You have a very powerful and despotic ruler (Putin/Stalin) and a puppet who is supposed to be in charge of the country (Medvedev/Rykov-Moltov). I can't imagine that the Russian people are so blind as to not see what is going on. I can only assume that they accept it and wish to return to the soviet form of dictatorship that Lenin and Stalin so enjoyed.
To say that the west don't want Russia to be strong is silly. We in the west have so much in common with the Russian people that I find it sad that we differ so greatly in political views. We desire Russia to be strong economically, in security, and in culture. What we don't wish to see is the big military bully that we saw for over 70 years with the USSR. The concept of "strong" in the US and the rest of the west is based off of the quality of life of the people who reside in a country. In the US, we consider ourselves strong not because of our military might, but because our citizens enjoy a relaxed lifestyle. Our lack of poverty, our wealth of culture, and our desire to succeed and help our fellow man is what makes our country strong. Pavel Milyukov (Павел Николаев Милюков) wrote a book titled "Russia and its Crisis" which went to lengths to explain the similarities between Russia and the US. If you haven't read it, I would highly suggest doing so. You will see that our countries are not so different until you get down to the political aspirations of our leaders. If Russia wants to be seen by the rest of the world as a friend, it needs to quit building up it's nuclear arsenal and quit using force to punish those who would wish to be free of it's influence and government.
To say that not one single innocent man, woman, or child was killed in Georgia by the Russian military is simply not true. Again, just an example of the propaganda machine that started with Molotov and never ended. To call the Russian military a "peace-keeping" force in Georgia is also untrue. They are there to secure Georgian assets for Russian use. And to paint your soldiers as "peaceful" is a flat out lie. They recently attacked United Nations observers who were there to ensure that no civilians were being killed/punished. It really is a wonderful world though. I just wish that the Russians would realize that they do not need to beat up their neighbors to realize this. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Kingtiger
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 3:56am
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Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 6:30am
I mean exactly what I say and surely you would never believe it but I never lie. And don't turn it upside down trying to set up your way of treating the facts like you just love to do - e.g. we, Americans, invaded Iraq to fight terrorists and prevent America from new attacks... and later on it turned out there hadn't been any terrorists in the poor countrie, September, 11th was initiated by Pentagon and all you had been wanting was oil and new military bases location... ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 7:24am
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Obviously you don't watch the news programs here in the US properly or you'd realize that our network news (ABC, NBC, CBS) is very neutral when covering wars. It seems that the influence of Molotov never really died out in Russia. It's just so sad to see the Russian people swallow the lies that Putin and Medvedev continue to give them so easily.
Oh, really??? Then you think that it was our President who made up that movie which appeared recently in the Internet showing an American girl and her mom who happened to be in Ossetia and witnessed the truth (your allusions to правда are comical, be above it! ) were being interviewed in one of your 'neutral' channels... At first, it was ok - she was just describing the horrors of war but then she realized she was sounding ambiguous so she specified it had been Georgian assaults, Georgian ruthlessness, etc... Right after that your 'neutral' TV-announcer started coughing loudely and then quickly said they suddenly ran out of live time - you, ladies, have only 30 sec to finish your thought, quicker, quicker, here we go... Thanks for watching us... I tell you - all these alleged attacks on Poti, Gori, etc are fabricated for your innocent heads and you swallow it like a tasty bait, not us. Thank God, nowadays here there are enough independent sources of information and analysts to 'separate the wheat from the chaff' -maybe even too many...(oops, I shouldn't have said 'independent', right? You will surely take advantage of this blunder in your further delusional perception of modern Russia... to say that Putin is like Stalin and Medvedev is like Molotov  ..., well, no wonder that you, guys, are such easy believers of Condoleesa's lies.... It is so advantageous to equate Stalin's Russia and modern Russia and lay the blame on it, right?)
Who is threatening Eastern Europe with missile attacks? We are just defending our territory against NATO and US Missile ATTACK System approaching more and more towards our borders... Whom is your 'Missile Defending System' aim at? Some invisible bloody terrorists??? I will not be at all surprised to see the next step of Condoleesa to say that all world terrorists live and hide in Russia... Fire away! in such a light, it does seem a real blunder of mine to have started this topic... What else could I expect?... I've still got at home an American book of modern history saying that it were only the USA who conquered fascists Germany... And the last thing - I just cannot resist a temptation to say that instead of placing your Missile Attack System all over the world, you'd better pay off your many-trillion-debts 
------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 8:01am
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Quote:
To say that the west don't want Russia to be strong is silly. We in the west have so much in common with the Russian people that I find it sad that we differ so greatly in political views. We desire Russia to be strong economically, in security, and in culture. What we don't wish to see is the big military bully that we saw for over 70 years with the USSR. The concept of "strong" in the US and the rest of the west is based off of the quality of life of the people who reside in a country. In the US, we consider ourselves strong not because of our military might, but because our citizens enjoy a relaxed lifestyle. Our lack of poverty, our wealth of culture, and our desire to succeed and help our fellow man is what makes our country strong. …You will see that our countries are not so different until you get down to the political aspirations of our leaders. If Russia wants to be seen by the rest of the world as a friend, it needs to quit building up it's nuclear arsenal and quit using force to punish those who would wish to be free of it's influence and government. Just a short comment: You, guys, are nice, kind, smart and friendly when you are not a nation. I personally know many from your lot. Your lifestyle has lots of real ‘achievements’ and we sometimes envy you that your everyday life is not so corrupted like ours. I take off my hat – it is your own great service, we are still on the way towards it… But as a state you are ugly and monstrous – you go and grab everything what you set your eyes upon just because you are rich and mighty. Your geopolitical desires are insatiable… it is so nice when you are a king and everybody obeys, right?… besides, in order to pay off your enormous debts, you need natural resources of the others (Iraq, Iran, …Russia seems quite attractive in this regard as well, doesn’t it?)…. As for ‘If Russia wants to be seen by the rest of the world as a friend, it needs to quit building up it's nuclear arsenal and quit using force to punish those who would wish to be free of it's influence and government’ – if you were attentive enough watching your ‘neutral’ mass media channels and tried to get access to other sources of information than those of America (not liable to the US), you would notice that on all summits Russia appeals to disarmament and always discharges its obligations (unlike the US ) … So I would paraphrase your words – If you all (I mean all the West including Europe) stop seeing in modern Russia Soviet Russia which you had long been scared of and perceive reality without prejudice, the whole world will benefit from it. ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 8:14am
| k |
Posted By: Brian Fellows
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 8:17am
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 8:55am
BWAHAHAHA! There were no terrorists in Iraq, eh? Who exactly were we fighting these past five years? The government set up 9/11? If we went to war for oil, where is it pray tell? Why, after 5 years, am I paying $4/gallon when we could easily be yoinking it from Iraq if that's what we were there for. I love how most of the people who disagree with the war like to spout of some uninformed babble, then claim it as fact. Give it 30 years... I bet Bush is hailed as one of the great presidents of all time simply for setting up a stable ally in the Middle East, possibly spreading democracy in the area (much like in Eastern Europe). The false pretenses for the war (which honestly, I think Bush was deceived into accepting) will make no difference 50 years from now when we (hopefully) have softened the region's opinion on democracy/freedom and fair trade. -------------
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 8:58am
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Is it just me or does Zarina sound alot like Susan Storm? ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 1:03pm
Even my Russian friends believe that Medvedev is nothing less than a puppet for Putin. I guarantee you that at the end of Medvedev's term, he is ousted and Putin takes the presidency again. The only reason that Putin and his cronies didn't re-write the Russian constitution to allow for more consecutive terms as president is the fact that the Russian people wouldn't stand for it as it would smack of the soviet-era too loudly. Those are almost the exact words that my Russian friends (not just a few, but almost all of them) have said to me. As for your alleged videos on the internet, I would hardly trust them myself. I get my news from reliable sources, not some hacks with cameras and a political agenda. (This is why I don't watch Fox News or CNN) I also reconcile my international news against other news agencies outside of the US sphere of influence. I do not equate modern Russia with Stalinist Russia readily, I merely stated that the current political situation in Russia too closely mirrors the old days when one single ruler had all the power. The fact that Medvedev is constantly asking Putin how he, the president, should run the country, and the fact that Putin, not Medvedev, traveled to the front lines in Georgia to discuss matters with the Russian military proves who is in control of the country. It isn't a division of power like the constitution states it should be, rather it is rapidly approaching an authoritarian system akin to the days of the Politburo. I would hardly compare the Modern Russian Parliament to the Central Committee, Parliament has real power and, as of yet, aren't afraid to go against Putin's wishes.
Oh, while the missile defense system is of some use against countries such as Pakistan, India, and Iran, who all have IRBMs, the biggest threat to peace in Europe is, by and large, Russia. Yes, you read that right, Russia has been rattling it's sabre attempting to be relevant in the decisions of the EU since the end of Yeltsin's last term. Putin is an old dog, and you can't teach and old dog new tricks, so what does he do to make Russia look relevant to the modern EU? He starts building up his military and attempts to bully his neighbors to get his way. You never did address my mention of the threat of nuclear war that Russia aimed at Poland just a few days ago. To quote General Anatoli Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the general staff in Moscow, "Russian military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them as Poland had done." He was also quoted as saying that Poland was, "exposing itself to a strike... 100 percent". Do the Russians really think that we're going to not put up a defensive shield to protect our interests if they decide to continue to pursue larger stockpiles of ICBMs? Do they think that their incursions of US sovereign airspace with their TU-92's will go unanswered? Putin has put Russia in a bind, being an old CPSU member and a KGB agent with family ties going back to Lenin and Stalin's staff. He was a poor choice for the Federation to put in charge as he can't easily let go of the old ways.
I find it interesting that you have such a book. Of course, Russia doesn't get off the hook so easily since their revisionist history until recent times never stated that they invaded Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, and the Ukraine when they allied themselves with the Nazis during the outbreak of the second world-war. Throughout my schooling (and I am by no means young) we were always taught that the Russians were the ones who helped win WWII and that they were the ones who took Berlin. Of course, that was only after Russia's plan of a preemptive strike against all of Western Europe was foiled by Operation Barbarossa. Stalin had grand plans to allow the Germans and Great Britain to wear themselves down, at which point he would send the Red Army west to fulfill the Commintern's mission of converting the nations of the world to Communism by whatever means necessary. If Hitler hadn't attacked the USSR on June 22nd, 1941, Stalin with the help of Pavlov, Zhukov, and the Politburo, would have marched on all of Western Europe by the spring of 1942. The only thing that prevented them from doing so at the end of the war was the joint coalition of Polish exile, French, Italian, American, and British forces. As for our national debt, we can carry a several-trillion dollar debt. Our Gross Domestic product is over 14-trillion dollars. Russia's GDP is approximately 2-trillion dollars. We pay more in interest every year than Russia makes for that same year! That goes back to what I said in my last post. Russia needs to forget it's military aspirations and learn to grow it's economy and not rely solely on Gazprom to prop up your economy. At some point in the not-too-distant future, alternative fuels will become a reality and Gazprom's value will drop like a rock. That's why Russia is so intent on grabbing all the oil it can right now, to "get rich quick" as it were before the bottom falls out of the energy market here in the west. Russia needs to be investing in scientific research and alternative energy methods rather than Nuclear weapons and oil fields in Siberia and the Caspian and Black Sea regions. While many Americans do need to open their eyes, many Russians (including yourself if you are indeed Russian) need to do so as well. As I said, we are not too different. If you read Pavel Milyukov's essay, "Russia and its Crisis" you would realize we are more alike than you think, not only on the personal level, but in politics and beliefs. To say that the US is evil and Russia is "good" is to turn a blind eye not only to all the good that the US does in the world, but to the great evils that the modern Russian government has committed to this day. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 1:09pm
You must be new here... :P Akmed is Susan ------------- 
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:10pm
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and yet, no one is arguing that. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:14pm
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This deserves to be in the "you laugh, you lose" thread because I totally just lost. |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:18pm
Ah, I meant that Susan was all these characters, not just Akmed. My b, dawg. -------------
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Posted By: Akhmed
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:53pm
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I am impressed/amused that tallen is going to such great lengths to argue against the russ-troll. But hey - the more pravda the better. ------------- "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. " http://zombo.com/ - Most awesome site EVAR! |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 4:02pm
Books I am currently reading: http://www.amazon.com/Stalins-Folly-Tragic-First-Eastern/dp/0618367012/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219348353&sr=8-2 - Stalin's Folly http://www.amazon.com/Lenins-Tomb-Last-Soviet-Empire/dp/0679751254/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219348391&sr=1-1 - Lenin's Tomb The ones I have read.... well, I'm at work so I can't list them all. I've had a huge interest in Russia and it's past, present, and future since I was a little kid. Гласност and Перестро 80;ка really opened up a whole new world that was blocked off to me as a young child. I remember being 6 years old, watching the television and seeing US newscasts coming out of the USSR without censorship when Chornobyl happened. The issue I see today is that Russia, while being far more open than it was in the days of Breshnev, is starting to curl back in on itself and curtail a lot of the freedoms that were gained in the days of Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Medvedev and Putin worry me a lot more than Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao do, and that is saying something serious right there. Anyway, I've got to get back to work. Have a good night everyone. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 4:04pm
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I think you should battle the Russian Iron Chef Tallen ...
Kinda like a culinary Rocky 4. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 4:06pm
Yeah, but it'd be no contest... I mean, how tough is it to beat a bowl of borscht? ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 4:18pm
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In Sovi...err..free Russia, we are always innocent! ------------- 
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Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 2:19am
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[/QUOTE]
There were no terrorists in Iraq, eh? Who exactly were we fighting these past five years? QUESTION:- Exactly - who???? [/QUOTE]If we went to war for oil, where is it pray tell? Answer: you don't have it because you failed. Iraq turned out to be a hard nut to crack. Besides, you were abandoned by your allies since the world finally started putting two and two together 
[/QUOTE]Why, after 5 years, am I paying $4/gallon when we could easily be yoinking it from Iraq if that's what we were there for. ANSWER: Sorry, guys, you cannot conquer everybody That's why Bush is such a failure.
[/QUOTE] Give it 30 years... I bet Bush is hailed as one of the great presidents of all time simply for setting up a stable ally in the Middle East, possibly spreading democracy in the area (much like in Eastern Europe). 
You should pray that he may not be considered another Saddam Husein or - worse - Hitler... [/QUOTE]The false pretenses for the war (which honestly, I think Bush was deceived into accepting) Hoh,hoh,hoh - poor lame-brained innocent Bush and equally innocent Condoleesa, they simply don't understand what they have been doing, right? Maybe you should elect smarter rulers then? [/QUOTE] will make no difference 50 years from now when we (hopefully) have softened the region's opinion on democracy/freedom and fair trade. I simply love your buzzwords... We bomb and kill people for democracy, freedom and fair trade!!! In Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan,Kosovo, etc... indeed there's an equally long list of counties Isn't it the same what Communists used to say whom you still blame long after they disappeared. The ideas are high flown, the implementers are bloody...
Pray, don't run down and do 'good' to anybody, they'll be better on their own! ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 5:03am
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[QUOTE=Akhmed] I am impressed/amused that tallen is going to such great lengths to argue against the russ-troll. Akhmed, mind your language, man, when talking to a beautiful lady, will you?  ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 5:20am
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Pics or shenanigans.
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 6:21am
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[QUOTE=tallen702] Even my Russian friends believe that Medvedev is nothing less than a puppet for Putin. I guarantee you that at the end of Medvedev's term, he is ousted and Putin takes the presidency again. The only reason that Putin and his cronies didn't re-write the Russian constitution to allow for more consecutive terms as president is the fact that the Russian people wouldn't stand for it as it would smack of the soviet-era too loudly. Those are almost the exact words that my Russian friends (not just a few, but almost all of them) have said to me. You see, my dear tallen, I would not contradict you mainly because, first of all, it is too early to say whether Medvedev is a puppet or a coming strong political figure - believe me, 100 days in office show nothing, especially taking into consideration that there was no special political program different from that of Putin's. Secondly, actually it is not the point whether Medvedev is a puppet or not. He and Putin made a team and, you know, most of Russians so much like Putin here (sincerely!)that they simply voted for a person devoted to Putin and his way of ruling the country. Don't worry - there was no need to re-write constitution like they do it in Belourussia, it's two different things. But comparing Putin to Stalin I call utmost stupidity (or I'd better say - political shortsightedness). He did quite a lot for the country - you won't understand how much because you didn't live here in 1990-ties when the whole country was sold out and ravelled out in misery, corruption, utmost level of crime, business and industrial racket and hypocritical lies of Yeltzin cronies - the so-called new Russian democrats. And you allude so favourably to those times of Yeltzin's reign! He was indeed a petty monarch, a haughty man wishing nothing but power at any cost... But 'de mortuis aut bene aut nihil' You in America appreciate stability and human rights above all. In 1990-ties we could only dream about it and survive (there was no question of normal living). And now most of us do live, it is not a question of surviving any more. And this is a merit of Putin. That he is making Russia stronger and more significant in the world, makes your government a pain in the neck. But honestly, don't be afraid of the return of the old days, when we were enemies and Russia was a dictatorship. If the West stops provoking us, we will be good allies and save the planet from many stupid confrontations. As for that video, first, it was not a dodge, believe me - there were true people speaking - you shouldn't be much of a psychologist to understand it. And secondly, there were so many other proofs - western leaders, journalists concealing facts , unable to retort direct questions, the way of news feeding, absence of objective coverage of the events, rough fact distortions... Like I saw it with my own eyes and heard with my own ears, I swear - and surely you will not say that my English is not good enough :) when a western journalist was covering a news block saying that Russian troops fighting in some Georgian city and I see them showing an Ossetian Tshinval and a soldier in a Georgian uniform creeping with a gun on the backside shooting at some civilian. If you had seen the horrors of the war, the real scenes of it, people crying, you would have never dared to say it is a forged performance. And people in Georgia were frightened as well because they were said Russia is bombing Georgia and they cut off all Russian channels to keep them in this illusion. A smart move in the whole performance. All you have to do is just to compare the facts and switch on your logic and common sense. But frankly, I don't think that you will ever believe me because if you only assumed it were true, you'd be very much frustrated to know what world you are living in... You may lose you wonderful beliefs and your notorious stability. But I am glad that you are at least a thinking guy! Come over here to get to know what I am saying inside out. We are open for your check-ups. ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 6:24am
You'll manage without. ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 8:01am
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QUOTE Putin is an old dog, and you can't teach and old dog new tricks, so what does he do to make Russia look relevant to the modern EU? He starts building up his military and attempts to bully his neighbors to get his way. Sorry, this is just bull**edited** (I wish I could put it milder), so no comments - you'd better read my yesterday's note about disarmament... You never did address my mention of the threat of nuclear war that Russia aimed at Poland just a few days ago. I wish I could address all what you say but I am at work, you know... ;) so I usually choose most shocking comments... But if you wish, here you are: To quote General Anatoli Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the general staff in Moscow, "Russian military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them as Poland had done." He was also quoted as saying that Poland was, "exposing itself to a strike... 100 percent". Sorry, I can't confirm whether your quote of the General is right or wrong (I don't remember it word for word), but I believe you and would like to explain in brief what he means by saying that. You should know jerking words out of a context is a tricky thing, isn't it? Then you can interpret them the way you like.. You just tell your own story, say whatever you want and then make such a quote. The meaning of the quote can be totally opposite depending of the rest of the context. Let alone putting things upside down. Anyway, back to the quote. To put it brief, after the collapse of the socialist military block (sorry, I cannot translate it correctly right away), NATO promised 'sincerely' NOT to extend their borders, not to approach Russia which agreement it has continuously been breaking accepting Baltic states, Buglaria, Chech Republic to be NATO members. But in order to find an excuse, you all started to say bull**edited** about Russia 'pursueing larger stockpiles of ICBMs and military threat' just like you do, or sometimes another sort of bull**edited** about possible terrorist attacks... But both you and us understand it is aimed against Russia and this alleged war Russia vs Georgia proved it wonderfully. Ukraine and Georgia are dying of the desire to be able to bite from the American pie and neglect our inner connections completely. But Russia being too kind-hearted, constantly forgives them all the time for their betrayals because we have strong historical and ethnical relations with these nations. So the last step is to affiliate in NATO Georgia, Ukraine, Poland to encircle Russia with your missle Attack systems. It seemed a wonderful plan! But all of a sudden Poland doesn't want to put your missiles, it wants money for rearmament of its army. US is greedy - who wants to waist so much money? Then a wonderful plan - to initiate a war in Ossetia, put it up you know how, blame Russia for everything, ruin its reputation more and more through this massive information war - and successfully persuade poor Poles to locate your ATTACK system where initially desired. Indeed a wonderful plan!!! Our General just stated that in such a threat of the US just 'round the corner' of Russia we will not be afraid to use nuclear weapon against Poland (or any other country including the US or its allies), should they 'break the limit', should they do anything to bring harm to Russia. So I hope you will think better of it and stop provoking us, otherwise there will be what you picture in Holliwood action movies... And regarding ...Do they think that their incursions of US sovereign airspace with their TU-92's will go unanswered?.... Why don't you say anything about US aircraft constant incursions during last 7! years of RUSSIAN sovereign airspace?? Why don't you say that Poland now is a convenient location to carry out US reconnaissance, ah?? While US themselves are so comfortably far away? Oh, I know, it doesn't count, right? Only Putin is to blame, Bush is innocent. Using your tone I may ask you: DO the Americans really think that we are going to put up with your provocations forever and keep silence, thus, allowing you to encircle us???? DO you really think that you can do whatever you want under the cover of your buzzwords about protecting your nation (which is on the other side of the world from Poland - ha, ha), with the help of the distorted facts and faked scenarious?? DO you really think that you can go on forever alluding to the supposedely existing KGB threat, Stalin's return, Communist invasion and go on with the redistribution of the world and its natural resources? Nobody in the West is still alluding to Hitler in everyday politics. Why? Because it is not profitable any more. Stalin and wicked Russia (Soviet Union) is a different case! NO, my dears! You provoked us and you got a straight reply what WILL happen, if YOU DON'T stop! That's it. As simple as that! Sorry, must be off now - the rest will remained unanswered! ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 8:37am
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Learn to quote.
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 8:38am
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 10:34am
FTW. That's driving me nuts. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 11:57am
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Zarina, you speak of the "internal ties" between Russia and the various states that are currently trying to join NATO. What connections are there that any of those former SSRs would cherish to the point that they'd want to remain allies and friends with modern Russia? What have you given the modern Ukrainian state other than support for the corrupt Yanukovych in the form of security forces and poison to try and murder Yushchenko with? The Ukrainians have no love for Russia. Even now, after the Orange Revolution, Russian settlers in the eastern part of the country who were moved there during the post WWII soviet expansion are continuously trying to break the sovereignty of the Ukraine and re-join with their comrades in Moscow.
That is but one example of the many former SSRs that do not wish to have anything to do with Russia in these times. I can think of only one former republic which shows any desire to keep their ties with Russia and that is Belarus. Of course, they were the only country to willingly join the USSR back in 1920. Russia has been, is, and always will be a country that uses it's military muscle to bully it's neighbors around. It should be interesting to see what happens when it is ousted from the G-8 and other international economic groups. Russia owes a lot of its current prosperity to the cooperation of the G-8 members and their allies. As for your supposed US incursions in Russian airspace. We don't fly recon missions in aircraft anymore. We have satellites that can read business cards from orbit. We retired our recon airframes many years ago. Many of them are sitting in museums this very day. The US intelligence agencies realize that orbital reconnaissance is more cost effective and avoids those sticky situations like incident in 1960. By the way, did you know that it took 14 salvos of surface-to-air missiles to bring down Gary Powers? The first salvo actually did the job, but the capabilities of the USSR were so lacking that they didn't realize he had crashed his plane. As a result, 13 more salvos of SAMs were fired, one of which locked on to a soviet pilot in his MiG-19 and killed him. I doubt you'll find that in Russian history books. Regardless, all you have proven time and again in this conversation is that the Russian propaganda machine is still well-oiled and the the Russian people have a tough time discerning the truth from the lies; separating the chaff from the wheat as you so stated earlier. Edit: Sorry, I didn't see your earlier responses on the previous page. I'm glad to see that you see Belarus for what it is. And again, unless we both become more familiar with each others countries, we will both continue to disbelieve each other when we claim that "our" media are the ones telling the truth. I would very much like to visit Russia some day. And yes, I agree that Putin has done well for the country. I honestly wish, however, that Gorbachev had been left in power long enough to see his plans for a change-over come to fruition. I doubt that the rape of Russia's resources and economy would have been so bad had a strong central figure been in power. I also don't think that Russia will ever return to the purge-filled years of the Stalinist regime. However, many of the things we in the west see Putin do and say make us believe that for every step forward that Russia takes in the world today, it takes another step backward. Obviously it is very important to a stable Russia to be surrounded by allies and it is understandable that the Missile Defense Shield and the desires of it's former satellite countries to join NATO are seen as threats by the Russian people and government. However, Russia must understand that its actions of belligerence towards its neighbors have driven them to NATO. In the end, Russia, no matter how good or bad her intentions are, needs to work on the image it portrays to the west. In addendum, I feel that we have strayed far from the original topic at hand and will leave this discussion at that. It has been a very interesting debate, but for now, до свидания. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 10:03pm
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Tallen, English translations please. -------------
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 10:08pm
Missiles go boom boom. ------------- 
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 11:54pm
??? правда = Pravda which literally translated means "Truth" however, it was also the name of the official state newspaper of the USSR which was was little more than the daily dose of propaganda and lies perpetuated by the Politburo. Россия волк в овечьей шкуре = "Russia is a wolf in the skin of a sheep." Павел Николаев Милюков = Pavel Nikolaev Milyukov, the foreign minister of the provisional government of post-revolution Russia. до свидания = Do Svidanyeh (doe-SVEE-dahn-yay) which is the formal way of saying "goodbye" in Russian. Or did you mean translate all the political stuff? ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: zarina
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 4:20am
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QUOTE:
Regardless, all you have proven time and again in this conversation is that the Russian propaganda machine is still well-oiled and the the Russian people have a tough time discerning the truth from the lies; separating the chaff from the wheat as you so stated earlier. I am indeed very grieved to still hear such groundless and far-fetched comments like that and all these retorts about Russin propaganda, Russian militaristic approach and influence over the neighbouring states, its armamenets build-up and the like which you have been fed through decades still jerking in your minds non-stop... I feel sorry to have wasted my time on this- actually it is a job of politicians,not mine, anyway, I am glad that I personally encoutered this wall of prejudice from all of you and now I understand much better what a hard job and what hard times our diplomats are having every day and why their remarks and actions are so mild and considered. Before I simply failed to understand why they allow such distortions to happen, why they always procrastinate and don't give the provocators what they deserve - now it's crystal clear: one wrong step will intervene a fatal stroke, and if it should happen, it will be not Russia to start it, this is 100% true. It is the highest level of ahimsa: to respond with love to aggression. And if you only knew Russians just a tiny bit, you wouldn't allow yourselves to think for a sec that Russia could start any kind of war on the eve of the Olympic games (even Hitler didn't do it). Only nazi regimes like they are having now in Georgia (after 'Rose Revolution') can initiate something like this. And I am very grieved as well to see that such a great country as America keeps supporting such nazi regimes. When Georgia committed its first genocide in 1920 (the same war just like we had a fortnight ago), your president Woodrow Wilson roundly denounced it and vetoed Georgia's entry into the League of Nations... Enough is enough, thanks for a valuable and interesting discussion. All the best to you all! ------------- God bless you all! |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 8:17am
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Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 8:45am
| In after thead. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 12:14pm
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Thats what I meant, thanks. -------------
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 4:04pm
I don't think we have had aircraft for 5040 years. |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 4:12pm
I laft. -------------
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Posted By: White o Light
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 5:52pm
Geeeooorrgiiia On My Miiiiiind
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Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 7:04pm
We did!  -------------
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Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 26 August 2008 at 2:34pm
i'm wondering how many people read that and wondered what the hell he was talking about. |