Bear Baiting seems to be...
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Topic: Bear Baiting seems to be...
Posted By: tallen702
Subject: Bear Baiting seems to be...
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 4:00pm
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... the new past-time of eastern European countries.
Poland just decided to tick Russia off BIG-TIME while they're occupied with Georgia: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POLAND_US_MISSILE_DEFENSE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT - US And Poland Agree To Missile Defense Shield Deal Time to sit back and see what the Ukraine does. I guarantee you they block the Black-Sea fleet from port. Good luck returning home when your ships are out of fuel there Ivan. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Replies:
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 4:18pm
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Just saw this. The timing of this struck me as well.
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 4:23pm
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WWIII!!! WWIII!!!
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Posted By: JohnnyHopper
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 4:26pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWuHRWqvaNU&feature=related - Is this you Tallen? 
I found this guy by accident and it made me want to invent a new game called "Most in need of meds" ------------- My shoes of peace have steel toes. |
Posted By: unvolution
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 5:08pm
| i think the ukraine passsed a decree the other day saying the russians have to gain authorization to return to the port they lease to russia |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 6:06pm
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I do not think this word means what you think it means... /pet peeve ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
tallen702 wrote:Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 3:40pm
Lmao, this is brilliant:
So if we build missile defense sites, they plan on getting back at us by shooting missiles....wow. I don't think anybody should feel threatened by a country with military strategy like that. I think it's time to give the Russians a wee spanking, they've been very naughty lately. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 4:08pm
Except that their missiles would obliterate us... ------------- 
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 4:28pm
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thats where the missle defenses come in
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 4:30pm
There are other ways to deliver atomic weapons. -------------
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Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 4:54pm
Because they always work. Perfectly. *cough* patriot missile system *cough* ------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45 
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 4:56pm
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It is still better than the Sgt York. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 4:59pm
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i imagine they would have one hell of a time getting a bomber over here
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Posted By: -ProDigY-
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 8:14pm
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 9:42pm
ehhh, not really. They've been pretty persistent with flying their bombers to the edge of US airspace or just over it recently. And the modified Tu-95's that they're doing those runs with have the capabilities to fire nuclear warhead equipped cruise missiles at us with an high success rate seeing as how they're probably too fast for our intercept systems to engage properly. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 10:44pm
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WE NEED THE STAR WARS PROGRAM!!! Although the "Star Wars" program is a great saftey blanket, it could have raised tensions even higher during the Cold War. ------------- 
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 15 August 2008 at 10:48pm
They manage to fly over restricted airspace in alaska more often than a lot of people think. Besides, odds are any country nowadays that's planning on starting a nuclear war is not going to send "a bomber." There's going to be lots and lots of ICMB's and no country has the defense system to stop all of them. Besides, chances are that those ICBM's will be coming from submarines. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 17 August 2008 at 8:43am
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If they fired nukes at us they'd be screwed unless they took out nearly all of our military and hit our allies hard all at once. Once nukes are fired, the whole world would flip out and we'd quite possibly even retaliate with our own nukes which we have no shortage of. I'd say the chances of them lobbing a nuke at us from Russia and hitting the target are slim and only a little better if they try with a submarine. If they sent bombers, I'm sure we'd take them out before they got close enough. In any case, I have a feeling things will be getting worse between the US and Russia. I'm expecting another arms race at least.
------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 17 August 2008 at 10:12am
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i have a feeling the amount of nukes fired between US and russia regardless of if they hit would destroy the world.
we arnt talking about one or two missiles, it would be hundreds or thousands of missiles, some armed with conventional weapons and some with nuke/chem weapons. if we go to war with russia the world will change, if the gloves come off we wont recognize it. ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: techietaichi
Date Posted: 17 August 2008 at 11:15pm
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Like I've always said, "Man will destroy man". Earth, what a place! ------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZWhJCF6Ig"> 
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 17 August 2008 at 11:22pm
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We americans should have caimed the moon 40 years ago. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 2:16pm
Wow, that's probably the most uninformed opinion on the subject of nuclear warfare that I've ever seen in my entire life. We're still in the old arms race to start with. Also, the whole objective of a first-strike capability is to knock out the enemy's military function. I guarantee you that the Russians know where our ICBM silos are and would drop MIRVs on them as well as every marshaling yard, military base, and port city from the world 'go'. While the SMDS is a good start to a comprehensive ant-ICBM program, it is not the end-all-be-all that people seem to think it is. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 3:57am
Not sure if any of those questions came off as being rhetorical but they weren't, I'm genuinely curious about all of this. Whether you think I'm retarded or not doesn't matter much to me, I'm interested in how we really compare to a country like Russia which I think is likely to start crap with us at some point. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 6:56am
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We're much better off technologically than they are.
However, if they launch even a small number, say 100, of today's nukes (much more effective than back in Hiroshima/Nagasaki) our defenses aren't going to get them all. It would only take maybe 20-25 getting through to massacre our population centers and military facilities. As I understand it, if Russia were to launch a nuke, we'd launch ALL of ours. /World ------------- 
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Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 11:20am
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I'm curious about the actual effectiveness though in statistical terms. Would our defenses take out 90%, 80%, 10%? And I definitely think there's a dedicated "launch all our crap at Russia" button at some military base here, there's always been tension between the US and Russia. I can't imagine our government not retaliating with equal force almost instantly after they found out about missiles being launched.
------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 1:31pm
Here's the problem with using current missile defense systems to combat the Russians. They have a nasty habit of not using silos like we do in the west. They have fewer missiles with smaller payloads than we do, so they adopted a strategy that would insure that they would at least nuke the crap out of our civilian centers if we ever pulled a first strike on them. The strategy is simple, they put their ICBMs and IRBMs on mobile carriers that are rather reminiscent of the SCUD launchers we had such a tough time tracking down in the first Iraq war. They also have a fairly large fleet of nuclear and diesel 'boomer' submarines that are also excellent launch platforms. Add in the fact that they have recently been converting all of their old TU-92's to carry nuclear payload cruise missiles and you get the picture, there is little to no warning that the missiles are inbound. With ICBMs launched from Siberia, I think the average flight time is just around 20 minutes for it to reach the US. The Thing about ICBMs is that they fall fairly straight from the sky, but you aren't taking out just one missile, the new Topol-M MIRV that Russia just put into service has multiple independent re-entry vehicles (MIRV) which are precision radar guided allowing them to actively dodge patriot-style anti-missile defense systems. The Russians say that they'll beat any current and future anti-missile technology for decades to come. Anyway, back to that 20 minute time-line. Not only do you have to confirm that they really are inbound missiles and not a glitch in the system (and we've come close to blowing up the world a few times due to glitches) you've only got about 10-15min at the best before impact. That means that there's little to no time to prep flight crews to go after inbound cruise-missile equipped bombers or to even get your anti-ICBM systems up and running. This was the reason that SAC always had planes in the air. We figured so long as we kept bombers in the air right at the Soviet borders, we'd be able to bomb the crap out of them even though there'd be no place to land when the bombers got back. The rest of the world probably wouldn't get involved unless there were missiles fired at them as well. Here's the other problem. Most nuclear arsenals are equipped with a "dead switch" which is essentially a program that initiates a launch of all remaining nuclear arms if the system thinks that there is no one left to rescind the order. i.e. we get first strike and knock out the Russians and for some reason, escape relatively unscathed. Well, whatever missiles they have left in the few silos they do have will fire automatically at some point down the road. Usually they are spaced out over a period of months to lull the enemy into a false sense of security.
It's not very effective at all. That's why I found your original statement to be very uninformed. Even our patriot missile systems are 60% at best, and they only work against short-range and intermediate-range ballistic missiles. Our early-warning radar defenses are up to date as are our sonar nets, but the fact of the matter is this, if Russia launches, they're going to launch enough missiles that we will be overwhelmed. That's why the missile defense shield we've been pushing is actually a two-line system. The front line of defense is there in Europe around Russia's borders, while the second line is on our continent allowing us to ensure our systems don't get overwhelmed. The problem is that the system isn't even 30% complete in Europe and those countries that will allow us to go in to them to install the system are pretty few and far between right now. Again, those new ICMBs they have are going to make shooting them down even trickier. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Robotech
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 3:24pm
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M.A.D. Mutually Assured Distruction. The simple concept that if one side fires their missles the other side will have time to fire their's before the first salvo arrives on target thus Assuring the Distruction of both combatants. That concept is better than ANY anti-missle system at stoping a nuclear strike. It worked during the First Cold War and I see no reason for it to work in what is shaping up to be the Second Cold War. I place little weight on Russian claims when it comes to their weapons systems. They have a history of claiming them to be far better than they actually fair. Yes, there have been bright spots in the Soviet/Russia military program but there have been far more flops. As of nuclear capability, Russian aircraft delivered weapons systems will not fair well. The first issue is our Stealth technology. The old addage of you can't hit what you can't see still applies 99.9% of the time. Yes, fire enough missles in the air and you may get one lucky hit every now and again but those are the exceptions not the rules. There are certain avenues of approach that the Russians would have to take to get here by air and I gaurentee you our air defense systems have plans upon plans to counter those strikes. Even our older aircraft are on par with most of the Russian aircraft and I'd put our pilots up against their's anyday. For marine based launch platforms such as cruise missles and Boomers (Nuclear Balistic Missle Submarines) again it comes down to a technology issue. Their navy isn't what the Soviet navy use to be. We still have very effective hunters in our attack submarine fleet and our Ohio boats (Boomers) are still some of the quietest boats in the world. If tensions were to escilate you can bet we'd put those Ohios back in service and park them right off the Russian coast. Keep in mind that roughly 50% of the U.S. Nuclear Missile arsenal is afloat in the Ohio class. I'm not saying that we could WIN a nuclear war but what I am saying the Russians are not stupid and they know that there would be no way of attacking the US with nuclear weapons and not, in return, having the US strike back with equal devistation. It's kind of in the movies when you see two guys face off with guns pointed at each other's faces except both weapons fire 20 minutes after you pull the trigger. The guy who shoots first still is signing his own death certificate. ------------- New to the sport? http://www.b17queenofthesky.com/paintball/index.html"> 
Proud owner of a WS-66 A-5 ACP |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 11:58am
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Well that sucks. I'm still convinced that if they tried anything they'd be screwed as well but if our defense against missile attacks is hardly 60% effective then we really need to fix that. They didn't attack us during the Cold War for fear of retaliation but I think that since most people would expect the same to happen in a second cold war, they might actually attack this time.
------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 3:57pm
I commented on this in one of the other threads, but google AEGIS Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) and you will get some good information. This program isn't some Star Wars BS with a bunch of "pew pew lasers" either. This system just works. It was used to shoot down the satellite, which traveled at a much higher speed and was a much smaller target than an ICBM. I think there's some youtube videos about it as well. |
Posted By: heliumman77
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 4:13pm
Yeah wasn't that all planned mostly to say we could take out all their stuff basically. I highly doubt there will be a second cold war I mean what happened to all the speculations of Georgia being the start of world war 3. Yeah It's still causing and going to cause some problems but come on another cold war? seriously? Russia can maybe act like they could/will do something but they won't, they are just like the rebellious teenager in the world that's is really harmless. Sure they have weapons but will they use them no way. Also I'm sure there are many top secret military things planned for this if it were to happen. It's the military's job to protect us I'm sure they play with this scenario and many others and find solutions. ------------- 
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 10:23am
World Wars don't start over night. This could still quite easily develop over several years. -------------
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Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 11:10am
QFT Some can say WW2 was in early stages in the 20's and 30's when Japan invaded Korea and Manchuria. |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 3:39pm
I've heard about that system before, think I might have seen a show about it on TV. Also, about lasers, there is some kind of laser weapon for use against missiles but I'm not sure how far along it is in development. I think it was also intended more for defense of individual aircraft from SAM's or RPG's. The general idea was that it aimed a laser at the warhead and just melted the thing apart before it could hit. It was mounted in a round thing, usually at the front of the aircraft in the images I saw. Not sure how good that'll be but kinda cool nonetheless. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 3:41pm
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It's a chemical laser. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 7:59pm
I think you need to read about the SDIO a whole lot more than you have. While multiple laser platforms were tested (and a few were feasible), the vast majority of the "Star Wars" missile defense system lives on today in that Aegis BMD you keep prattling on about. It was born completely of the research of the SDI, which, under Clinton was renamed "BMD". ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 8:37pm
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Believe me, I'm no subject matter expert when it comes to the origins of BMD/SDIO, or AEGIS for that matter. All I know is what has been released publicly, and I'm guessing the components that AEGIS BMD and Star Wars could have in common would be their target aquisition and tracking systems.
But like I said, I'm not an AEGIS technician, so I don't really know how any of it works. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 9:51pm
SDI was a comprehensive program that not only used a space-based platform, but land based and intercept platforms as well. The reason the "space laser" end of things got so much attention was due to the fact that it was the part of the plan that really worried the Russians. They have a BMDS that guards Moscow and their fixed launch sites in the area, but that's all they've got. SDI was designed to take out multiple missiles and MIRV systems where conventional systems wouldn't be able to effectively track and kill that many targets. Aegis is a "final defense" meaning it is our last line. It isn't the end-all be-all of BMD as while it can track multiple targets, it is incapable of effectively thwarting a massive nuclear attack which SDI was supposed to do. SDI made huge leaps in tech, not only with intercept radar, missiles, and signature tracking technology, but also with remotely operated precision weapons and railguns. In fact, the railgun piece was the one that seemed most likely to succeed in space. Our particle beam cannon weapon systems experiments also enjoyed a high level of success. Aegis is little more than the old SDI ERNIT system packaged with a larger target acquisition network. I'm very interested to see what will happen in the near future with the navy's railgun project. I've seen pictures of the tests they conducted with a 7gram lexan projectile back in the day. The new railguns can fire a 7lb projectile at more than mach7. I've got a feeling that we'll probably see Reagan's SDI system in space before much longer. Heh, and the Russians are worried about our ground-based systems.... Anyway, for a little more insight into the Aegis/SDI tie-ins, here you go:
------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 8:57am
| Rail Gun is being tested on our base, we hear it go off maybe 5-10 times a week. I've never seen it, but have certainly heard it. |
Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 9:02am
Just thinking about getting to fire one of those makes me smile a little. -------------
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 9:19am
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I'll just wait on them to finish the Farsight.
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