Interesting
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=180471
Printed Date: 21 January 2026 at 3:31am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Interesting
Posted By: gh0st
Subject: Interesting
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:34am
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http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/02/legalize_it_ammiano_to_introdu.php - http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/02/legalize_it_ammiano_to_introdu.php -------------  |
Replies:
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:03am
| Dugg, finally some progressive thought on an overdue issue. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 9:52am
That will be shut down anyway. Also, how do they expect to collect this $50 an ounce? Making it legal means people will just start growing themselves and selling more... ------------- Que pasa? 
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choopie911 wrote:Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 10:01am
| With the current economic problems, this might actually have a chance to pass. It won't. But it has a chance. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 10:14am
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They might as well legalize prostitution while they are at it. Make the girls pay for a "working girls" a license, tax them (income tax, social security, etc). ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 10:15am
Somebody needs to tell this guy that California is not a country. This bill is a waste of taxpayer time and money. Shame on him.
Of course, state legislatures are notorious for wasting taxpayer time and money, so what the hey...
------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 10:48am
| Bein lied tah. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 1:43pm
Well of course, but I'm happy with it getting a sliver of the spotlight. Awareness is a big step on its own. |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:09pm
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:12pm
Yeah I'm looking forward to it, not really the selling part, just growing plenty of personal. ------------- 
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Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:16pm
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:21pm
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Then again if I lived in Cali I would already be growing for a dispensary.
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:35pm
Move here. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:42pm
Back when Bunkered was big on being the angst-filled marijuana user (Think FreeEnterprise but on the topic of weed) he posted some big long spiel about how weed cures cancer or something, and followed it with "YOU ARE BEING LIED TO!" in big letters. I thought it was hillarious. I just kind of picked it up and started using it in posts about weed. Somehow the spelling got broken down over time. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:44pm
Northern Light?
Hemp Day in Toronto?? ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:45pm
Or you know, Vancouver: 
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:49pm
Looks like Central Park during th efree outdoor concerts. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:50pm
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:52pm
| Hahaha, well played. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:19pm
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The fact that weed is illegal still shocks me, so lame. But all the arguments for and against it have already been made on this forum, so no point in me going there :P. ------------- 
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:32pm
------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:38pm
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It doesn't cause cancer though, but it still presents the same problems associated with any smoking, ie, paralyzing the cilia.
That can be avoided with vaporizors or edibles, although most people dont. Again though, it's a personal choice just like drinking alcohol is (which is also harmful) Besides, I'd hope if it were ever legalized they'd do so logically and have restrictions on where. You can't drink in the street or in the McDonalds ball pit, and you wouldnt be able to smoke either. Smoking rooms work just fine, and no-body that doesn't want to be exposed to the smoke is exposed to the smoke. That or your house. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:44pm
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I think drugs should be legalized, and taxed heavily based on their impact on society. Similar to tobacco.
Interesting read from today.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29325058/ - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29325058/ ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:45pm
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Impact on society? Consumption doesn't really change based on legal status. It's a $7 billion annual industry in Canada as it is, people are already doing it if they want to do it.
I fully agree it should be taxed though, the amount of money that could be made off of it is ridiculous. Holland's system works quite well IMO. (even though its not actually legal there) FE: that article reminded me of this guy: http://nevergetbusted.com/v2/home.html - http://nevergetbusted.com/v2/home.html Ex drug enforcement officer (I believe, some sort of cop either way) that was sick of putting people away for a law he didn't agree with, and now makes a series of videos on how to fight back. Not always just how to smuggle stuff, but just knowing your rights for searches and such too. |
Posted By: Bruce Banner
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:47pm
Well, that's mighty socialist of you...
------------- Waste and excess are not conservative family values http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/07opclassic.html - Nature is not a liberal plot http://pickensplan.com - A Good Energy Plan |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:50pm
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I knew you would appreciate that one...
Drug use is dumb. But, hey, if a guy wants to shorten his life, let him. Just don't ask me to pay for his medical treatment down the road. ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 3:50pm
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Yeah, all those marijuana caused cancer cases.
Oh wait....... *Edit* Just saw this, made me lol http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/marijuana_legalization_more_popular_than_key_conservative_leaders.php - http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/marijuana_legalization_more_popular_than_key_conservative_leaders.php |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 4:12pm
By drug use, do you mean illicit drugs or all drugs? -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 5:24pm
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A group of my friends are very keen on legalization, and in our discussions on the matter the issue they constantly bring up is how much it costs to try to keep marijuana off the street, and how the government could make profits by taxing the drug. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see how that will work. Mind you, the following is not based on any numbers, just a bit of reasoning. We spend money now on programs to find where the drug is being grown, stopping its smuggling over the boarder and educating people about the effects. These programs are not entirely specific to marijuana and target many other illicit drugs. Now say we legalize marijuana and tax it. Educational programs do not go anywhere since we still educate about alcohol and tobacco, and most of these programs target other illicit drugs as well. Patrolling the boarder for smuggling still continues, if not increases, since there will be lucrative market for cheaper grown marijuana from other regions which do not face taxes. Searches for illegal and legal growing operations still continue since, again, the government must enforce the law and ensure that the marijuana legally available was legally grown. On top of these programs, departments must be set up to manage legal growing operations and licensing. Programs must be set up to ensure minors cannot purchase marijuana illegally. Etc. The trouble with weed is its so easy to grow that illegal operations will not cease with legal options available, particularly if the legal option is more expensive. Now don't get me wrong, I see no reason for the drug to be illegal and legalization is fine by me, but suggesting its the miracle cure to our economic situation as well as cancer, diabetes and glaucoma is a little silly. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 5:30pm
------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 5:39pm
Darur, think of just this one point alone then: Prison expenses. Think of how many people are in the US prison system for marijuana related charges. How much space they are taking up, food, laundry, etc. That is a ton of money going in to keeping these people in prison who really shouldn't be. |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 5:44pm
| as far as new agencies to handle production, sale, etc, it would just expand to ATFE and similar agencies. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 5:53pm
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I have to agree that you can't expect huge amounts of money to appear in the system based on legalization. That's an unrealistic dream that would be nice, but there's too many variables to count on it.
Marijuana should be legalized on the basis that Americans shouldn't be told what they can or cannot do with their own bodies in their own time. You shouldn't be able to deal or sell pot to minors-but you don't assume that just because someone has a 30 pack of beer in their back seat that they're gonna sell it to minors, why should that be assumed for pot?
Now before the anti-mary jane guys stand up and cry fowl, drugs like heroin and coke have a far more sinister background and import process than your local pot grower, and should be governed as such. -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 5:56pm
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Choopie, you are right that I forgot that in my analysis, but even then, how many of these people are serving only because of possesion charges? I have no idea personally, but my guess is most people in with possession charges were being charged with much more then just having a couple grams on them and a pipe. Not to mention, even under legalization I would imgaine there would still be many people arrested for illegal growing/production/sale etc. Even then, there is still a great deal of extra burracracy which would be added in to manage the legal trade of the drug. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 6:14pm
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As I mentioned earlier, hollands system works great and it's not actually even legal there, just tolerated.
On top of the money generated just by the sale of marijuana itself, think of the tourist dollars. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 6:55pm
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wouldn't legalizing it take the fun out of it?
Negative aspects of using drugs isn't only based on what harm it does to the individual using it but also what remifications it has otherwise. i.e driving while impared and wiping a family out.
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 6:57pm
once again, they could just transfer all of that stuff over to the same guys who do the same thing for alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. |
Posted By: Bruce Banner
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 6:59pm
This is where your analysis goes wrong.
Smuggling is very expensive. Heck, CRIME is very expensive.
Tobacco taxes are more than a dollar a pack in most states - see a lot of tobacco smuggling gangs out there?
How about beer cartels?
A legal commercial manufacturing operation will quickly and completely underprice any illegal tax-evading operation. Simply being able to operate large fields in the open and use semis for transportation will drop costs drastically. Security costs, labor replacement costs...
It wouldn't even be close. Legalize recreational drugs and the gangs of America lose 90% of their income overnight.
Then there are the home-grown stashes - again, not a real issue. I can grow tomatos in my garden, but I still buy them in the grocery store. Why? Store tomatos are easier, more convenient, always available, and - at least in my case - better.
Frankly, most people who brag about their home-made product (of whatever kind) are usually fooling themselves. How often is homebrew really better than Sam Adams? And even when it is better, Sam Adams is always more convenient.
We eat at McDonald's because we can't be bothered to microwave a frozen burger at home. I don't think the balcony pot plant will threaten the tax revenue. ------------- Waste and excess are not conservative family values http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/07opclassic.html - Nature is not a liberal plot http://pickensplan.com - A Good Energy Plan |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 7:08pm
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Bruce, it is very easy to make homebrew that's better than Sam Adams, but that's beside the point. When you make something illegal, you are allowing criminals to control it. ------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 7:08pm
If a substance is less fun for you because it's legal, you're doing it for the wrong reasons and probably shouldn't be. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 7:43pm
| Setting aside which substance that's being discussed, I remember coke-heads back in the college day's in the 80's saying that half of the buzz was in the buy. I had to take them for their word. |
Posted By: notXXscared
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 8:05pm
Exactly. Say you pick up a 20 bag, your paying a lot more than it's worth because the guy your getting it from is taking the risk of getting bagged up for dealing. The only way he justifies this risk is by charging you a lot more than cost. If it was legal and you could go pick up at the store the dealer's price drops a ton because there is no longer any risk involved, and he's got to be competitive with store weed by either dropping his prices, giving you weed that's bomb compared to the legally bought stuff, or start packin fatter bags; either way he's taking a huge profit cut. If it were legalized, dealers would be put out unless they had a connect where they could get huge amounts and flip blaze tree for dirt cheap. ------------- 
Previously DYE PLAYA |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 8:34pm
Fixed. ------------- 
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VE WEED!Posted By: tippmannfreak
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 12:37am
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The only problems I can see legalizing weed causing are short term.
If weed were legal, then yes it's use (or reported use at least) would probably pop up momentarily. However, it's legalization wouldn't change the entire world. There would still be restrictions. Similar to restrictions imposed on alcohol and it's use. This is almost the same conversation that use to spark up in high school regarding lowereing the drinkin age. I'm now weeks away from 21 so I couldn't care less if the age was lowered, not that it ever will be. But I still see it as ludicrous. People seem to think that if the alcohol age was lowered to say 18, now legal 18-20.9 year old would be perpetually smashed. And maybe this is true...for that first week. The laws inplace still apply. You can't be intoxicated and drive, be in public, drink on the job, drink in school. It seems that people expect mass anarchy if restrictions were lifted on substances like alcohol or marijuana, I really don't feel that's the case. I know that was kinda rambling. It's finals week as this retarded quarter/trimester school and my girlfriend (piece of rabbit fur...) was kind enough to lend me some adderall. edit! oh P.S. -yo yo dye playa represent homes |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 1:42am
I wouldn't compare that to marijuana, it just doesn't work.
Valid points. Realize many pushing for legalization are doing so for responsible adults using it safely in their own homes. It should most definitely carry an age limit as well as consequences for DWI. And Darur, I do have one question. Which is better in your opinion, spending all that money you talked about for nothing, or spending it and seeing most if not all of it come back by taxation? Don't forget the millions spent on imprisonment for those nonviolent offenders who would cease to take up tax dollars. -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 1:56am
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Couldn't find a reliable, non biased site to quote, but from everything I've been able to find the US spends around 5-7 billion a year enforcing marijuana laws alone.
Somewhere around 30K state inmates, and 10K federal inmates are in jail at the moment for marijuana convictions, and some sites I read alleged that a pot smoker is arrested every 42 seconds in the us.
Arrests for marijuana accounted for somewhere around 40-45% of all drug related arrests in 2003, and marijuana arrests are on the upward rise, accounting for around 700K arrests a year, and more arrests than violent crimes.
Again, this is just statistical information averaged from a half dozen or so sites, but most sites show around the same info. So based on those statistics, there are definately plenty of taxpayer dollars tied up into keeping pot off the streets, and obviously they're not working.
So even if it's not a good idea to legalize pot, then there's certainly a case for major reformation of drug law enforcement from an economic standpoint.
Being fair, many of those figures are at least partially set off by probation and bail costs, so it's not really accurate to declare the 7 billion number a definate cost, but I'd wager at least half that is empty tax payer money that could be used for much more urgent needs than keeping Timmy from getting baked on the weekends. -------------
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 7:51am
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Think about this:
A 3.5 gram bag of "chronic" ("medical-grade" weed) costs, on average, $50. You can easily get upwards of 28g off a single plant (varies by strains), multiple times a year if it is grown in a greenhouse. I have no idea what it would theoretically cost to grow a single plant, but I can't imagine it being very expensive; other than removing the male plants (a one-time deal) it's not exactly labor intensive. It doesn't seem unfeasable for ounces to be sold at the market price of $400 (no discount for quantities - just like medical stuff in Cali) with $250+ of that going to the government. There is also, in my mind, the moral dilemma of using the legal system to deal with a public health issue. With that said: YOU'RE BEING LIED TO!!!  I'm going to see if I can dig up that thread just for kicks.------------- 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 9:31am
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 3:20pm
| Bunkered your prices suck |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 3:22pm
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$400?? you are getting robbed!
------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: notXXscared
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 3:47pm
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Previously DYE PLAYA |
Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 3:54pm
Hard
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 3:56pm
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I think he was proposing that price as a post legalization, taxed price. Don't know though, prices have been on the rise here. -------------
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Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 3:57pm
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Yeah, let's not turn this into a comparitive pricing thread for illegal drugs. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Gator Taco
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 4:17pm
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Grow your own, n00bz ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trailgator01 - last.fm |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 4:20pm
| weed will make you grow man-boobies |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 4:35pm
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Actually, I'm removing this post, I fear I have said too much. Sorry Rambs. -------------
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 5:01pm
| One major concern I have is how to tell how much one has had, as we can with alcohol. How is an officer to be able to tell if the guy has simply taken one hit on his way out the door, or if he has been blazing all day? In the former case, chances are he won't be high enough for it to impact his ability to drive. However, with the latter case, there is a very good chance he will kill someone, just like someone driving wasted of alcohol. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 5:03pm
Why not conduct the field sobriety tests they already have? The tests are designed to test your balance and response time, things like that. Yeah there's no breathalyzer but you can still conduct on the spot checks. |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 5:38pm
| but then if they failed, how would you be able to prove that they are under the influence at the time? showing that they have poor reaction time is not sufficient enough. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 5:57pm
| Arm wrestling |
Posted By: gh0st
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 7:47pm
It also includes following the cop's finger with your eyes, stuff like that. And Eville, if a guy fails a simple field sobriety test and he's sober, he shouldn't be driving in the first place. ------------- |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 8:00pm
There are TONS of people that should not be driving anyway. That is not for field sobriety tests to decide - that is supposed to be the job of those who issue licenses. And what happens if they seem little over the line, take them back to the station and perform a urine test? That won't exactly work. |
Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 24 February 2009 at 8:55pm
Ask them to recite the alphabet in reverse. If they just start giggling, you know. -------------
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 25 February 2009 at 8:29am
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The alphabet backwards.. Myrtle Beach PD used that one at one time. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 5:05pm
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Lookit what I found. DEA has to find something better to do with their time now. -------------
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Posted By: Destruction
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 5:29pm
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mmmmm progress. ------------- u dont know what to do ur getting mottor boatted Men are from Magmar, women are from Venusaur. |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 5:32pm
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I don't think I could say the alphabet backwards sober.
------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |