HOLY Wordfiltered
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=180563
Printed Date: 02 January 2026 at 4:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HOLY Wordfiltered
Posted By: choopie911
Subject: HOLY Wordfiltered
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:17am
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Jesus H, what do you guys make of this:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattle911/archives/163025.asp - http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattle911/archives/163025.asp That is just........brutal..... |
Replies:
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:35am
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I'd hit it.
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Posted By: Gator Taco
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:43am
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Jesus Christ. What a tough man he must be to throw around a 15 year old girl like that....
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trailgator01 - last.fm |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:48am
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She walked into a room that was very obviously not the kitchen or laundry room. Why not?
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 2:05am
He hit her in the face man, that makes it way too obvious. |
Gatyr wrote:Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 2:15am
| he was completely justified. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 6:14am
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She's 15 . . . what other reason do you need?
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 6:50am
| /me waits for Linus. |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 8:06am
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With all the resistance she presented I'm surprised he didn't pull a taser out.
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Posted By: Enmity
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 8:23am
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I bet linus will bring out the fact that she kicked her shoes out the door, I'm sure he will explain that she kicked them towards the deputy deliberately and that made it justified to slam a 15 year olds head against the wall and throw her to the ground by her hair.
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 8:52am
------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:27am
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even if he thought he was being threatened or assaulted by what looked to me her snarky attempt to kick her shoes off, he did not use reasonable force given her age, and crime which was apparently no permission to borrow mommys car. She was probably yapping and being a typical you-can't-touch-me handcuffed 15 year old. But I'm sure there's plenty of videos that would bore us to death of similar situations where the officers are able to remain calm and go about what they needed to do without pummeling, ramming her face into a concrete wall, then onto the concrete floor. Once she's down, I don't see her struggle at all and he gives her a couple of big boy shots to the face, again, not reasonable. Guy needs at the very least anger managament, and possibly a new career. PS after reading the article on the sherrif involved that was charged for this incident, another detective who was following up on the auto-theft case was watching the video, saw the behaviour and contacted their supervisors to report what they must have thought was excess force. ------------- Imagine there’s a picture of your favourite thing here. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:37am
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ummmm "We had argued strenuously that the videotape released to the media this morning not be released because it does not tell the whole story of the incident," attorney Anne Bremner said in a statement. "As we argued to the judge, it will inflame public opinion and will severely impact the deputy's right to a fair trial." wut? EDIT: Oh wait more... In his own report from the incident, Schene wrote that the shoe hit him in the right shin, "causing injury and pain." He wrote that he "placed" her into handcuffs and that she needed medical attention for a "panic attack." He said a "blood filled pocket" formed on his shin, requiring treatment at Auburn General Hospital, according to his report.http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/401779_schene28.html - That article ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:40am
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Linus, do you actually believe what you type? I am just curious. EDIT: how the hell did my post get above yours? Oh and apparently smashing someones head into a wall is justified after kicking her and throwing in a punch.... Not to mention she is 15 and her crime is using her parent's car without permission... ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:40am
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Why? I don't agree with his actions.
Was he justified in subduing her because she kicked the shoe at him? Yes. Did he use an exorbitant amount of force to do that? Yup. The initial push into the wall was ok, the throwing on the the ground was pushing it, but using the hair to do so and once he started punching her, that went beyond the line. You guys have to give me SOME credit, I don't think ALL police action is justified... I just have to balance out your "lynch all cops" attitude. ------------- 
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:41am
And do you actually have gray matter between your ears? I said he used too much force. Exorbitant = not coming within the scope of the law exceeding the customary or appropriate limits in intensity, quality, amount, or size -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:43am
"The initial push into the wall was ok" Your quote....did you watch the video? ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:45am
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Yup, and watched it on the news well before this thread too.
Do I have to start the whole "using the force appropriate to subdue, and nothing more" argument again? Because obviously you're too slow to catch on to it for the past 3 years. Would I have preferred another method of him doing it? Hell yes. If you think any different then you are just looking for an argument from me. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:48am
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Force appropriate to subdue a 15 year old who did nothing more than flick a shoe? I think appropriate force would have been to shut the door on her.... ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:49am
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INB4 Don't tase me bro. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:50am
And I agree with you (gasp). Like I've stated a couple of times now, I would much rather him have gone about it in a different manner, but fact is, up until he grabbed the hair, he was still ok. From that point on, he crossed the line. You're arguing with someone who agrees with you on basis. I don't get it. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:51am
He ran in the room, kicked her, and swung at her.....before she hit the wall. I think he crossed the line when he ran in the room... EDIT: I am arguing with you because you are saying a punch, a kick, and slamming someone into a wall is totally appropriate for getting hit with a shoe.... That all happened before he grabbed her hair. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:52am
LINUS SAID IT WAS JUSTIFIED GUYS! GOGOGOGOGO!!!!!! On a serious note, I hate that attitude also linus. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:59am
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jmac, since you're such an expert on the video, watch it again;
When he first steps in the room, she swings her arms out at the cop. Could it have been a reaction to a big burly man making a quick move towards you? Sure. But everyone knows if you make an aggressive move towards a cop, on purpose or not, you're going down. Again, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE EXCESSIVE FORCE. I'm just a bit sad that it took 3 months for this thing to even surface.
Wait, Carl and I agreeing on something? -------------
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:04am
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If you've noticed, my argument in these threads has generally supported the police. There are people here who would trust a random stranger before they trusted a police officer. ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:06am
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You know what Linus, I am not even going to argue anymore because you might as well be FreeEnterprise. I would just like to point out that you said you think he was justified until he grabbed her hair. That was after she hit the wall. You then said you don't agree with excessive force. Running into the room like he did was excessive force. Therefore you contradicted yourself. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:07am
Which I never understood personally. Are there bad cops? Yup. But people can't just lump them all in to one group and say all cops are bad and they ruin lives. I was watching cops last night (shocker), and they had this one lady. She kept saying "See, this is why I hate cops. I love firefights and paramedics, but I hate cops because they ruin lives"--- as the cops are pulling meth out of her purse.
No, you're not going to argue with me anymore because you have no answer to any of the points I brought up. This is your way of making it look like I'm stubborn, when in fact you just can't face the fact that I very well might actually be right. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:11am
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No, I am not going to argue with you because you are stubborn. You have brought up ZERO points other than to say he was justified, and then go on to say you don't agree with excessive force. It was ALL excessive force. You can't have it both ways. You are not right. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:14am
No points? Reread a couple of post above;
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:16am
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Except that isn't what I am arguing. I am arguing where you said it was justified. Which you did say ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:17am
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I said the initial move was, yes. Everything beyond that I said was excessive. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:26am
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So a kick and a punch is justified?
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Gator Taco
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:35am
QFT ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trailgator01 - last.fm |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:48am
Ever been in a fistfight? Look at it like this; If someone has just kicked something at you, and when you move towards them, their arms come out, are you just going to stand there and let whatever happens happen? If someone kicked something at you, you're looking at their feet for another kicked, and kicking your leg out is a defense. Someone raises their hands at you, you raise yours as a defense as well. Real life fights are not choreographed, and you just have to go with the flow, but at the same time when you're a cop and the opponent is a 15 yo girl, you need to keep some level of restraint. Am I condoning what he did? For the 5th time, NO, but does it somewhat make sense? Yes. Should he have gone about it in a different way? YES. Should he have used a different amount / type of force? YES. How many ways do I have to phrase this for it to finally get through to you? -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:53am
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She wouldn't have raised her hands if he didn't run at her and kick her like the psycho he is. I don't care if you say he should have gone about it in a different because you said he was somewhat justified. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 12:00pm
Did I not already state in another post, and I quote for your benefit;
Her arms were raised before he kicked. Even when he kicked, it's towards her RIGHT foot, the one still with the shoe, because she was making a motion of kicking the other shoe at him. Again, I think it's excessive force beyond the initial push. But just because you don't agree with him going in to the room in the first place, does not mean it wasn't justified. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 12:12pm
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He kicked with his right leg to her left side....the side with the shoe already off. Why can't you ever just admit that a cop is completely wrong in some of these cases? Must be the ride alongs and EVOC training.... ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 12:31pm
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Assume the worst prior to what video we have to look at. Do you think they would have let her freely move about the station if she did something prior to the video to warrant the force on the tape?
He or they will fry. It's obvious that the cop somehow feels insignificant in order to act like that. Childish would be a good way to describe the cop.
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:18pm
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my friends 15 year old sister punched me once. I did not feel the need to kick her in the chest against a wall, pummel her, throw her around by her hair or anything like that. I wanted to because she annoys the crap out of me, but instead i just bear hugged her, set her down on the porch, went back in and locked the door. being a cop doesnt give you the right to be a dick and blow things out of proportion,legally or not. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:34pm
Figured I'd chime in with a serious comment. I watched the vid
numerous times and am basing my opinion on 20+ years of military law
enforcement experience. (Me waits for someone to scream "you're
biased!")
The answer to that is a resounding "no." As she is in the officers' custody, they are responsible for her. Once she demonstrated violence (of any level) towards them they also had to consider the possibility that she could injure herself and were pretty much required to handcuff her at that point. With that said, the officers screwed up (in my opinion) at that point in two separate ways: First, the reaction of the attacking officer appears to be an anger-based response as opposed to a measured escalation. Since she needs to be subdued at this point, the most appropriate response would have been direct her to face the wall (or something along those lines) for cuffing. With this video it is difficult to tell if that might have occurred. (I doubt it, but I am trying to judge only on what can be seen.) Second, with two officers present, there was no need for her to be slammed on the ground. The handful of hair would have been sufficient to move her along the wall and maintain control until she was positioned for cuffing by the other officer. I have to agree with Linus (mostly) on the initial contact the officer made with her. When her hands came up and towards the officer he reacted defensively. This is not normally a situation where someone sets and mulls over options and scenario specifics, this is a situation where people react as they are trained. His hands were tied up with hers so he threw a knee to her ribs. The point where I begin to question the deputy's actions are just after the kick when he appears to throw a punch to her head. If that is actually the hair grab, then I don't have an issue with it as he is establishing control; if, on the other hand, it is a punch, then I have to question the necessity of it as she is already headed towards the wall as desired. My opinion is that any further action after she was on the wall was excessive force. Keep in mind this may be mitigated by issues such as department policy/training. If they are trained to put every perp on the ground in similar situations, then this is merely a matter of them reacting as trained. There are no circumstances where the two blows to the head after she is on the ground is anything other than excessive force. (In which case, I think the department really needs to take a look at their training; although, given the information regarding the precinct they are assigned to, it may be necessary.) Where I disagree with Linus is if the initial contact was absolutely necessary. A camera view of the officer in the hall just before he engaged with the girl would be most useful. When this is investigated, I expect this to be one of the major points of contention. -------------
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:35pm
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Really Linus? That girl weighed 100 pounds, at most. The cop looked at least 200lbs...he could have sneezed and taken her down.
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:40pm
What do you tell a woman with two black eyes? ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:42pm
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Nothing, she didn't listen the first two times.
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:45pm
Zing. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:45pm
| To me it looked like a kid that was kicking her shoes off after being told by her parents that she couldn't go to the movies with her friends. With the fact that she floated thru the station without restraint prior to the violent actions of the cops in the video, I think we saw the most that she did which is act like someone that is not of legal age yet, which appeared to be a harmless tantrum. The cop is going down hard. |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:49pm
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Nothing you've obviously told her twice already. *(Damnit! too slow)*
If you cant take a shoe to the shin without throwing a hissy fit then you shouldn't be in the uniform.
And if you think you'll get away with actions like that then you're too stupid to carry the responsibility of being a cop. I am an advocate of street justice and i know coppers sometimes give the bad guys a beating out of sight (Quite rightly sometimes) but i can't fathom what he was thinking.
No need whatsoever. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 3:42pm
| Anyone who thinks that grabbing a girls head, then running it into a wall is justified is damaged. YES he was allowed to take action, but NO that was no-where near justified. The only thing he did do that wasn't excessive was placing the cuffs on her, everything else was way over the top. |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 8:36pm
i'm gonna have to agree on that. whether its the way he was trained or not, any grown man should have enough common sense to know that a 15 year old girl half his size can be subdued with much less force then that. and if he doesn't he shouldn't be working as a cop. |
Posted By: little devil
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 9:21pm
| That was funny, justified or not, I got a chuckle. She really wasent expecting that. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:17pm
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blood filled sack = bruise?
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:27pm
The only thing I could think of while reading Linus's response: |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 10:29pm
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/me likes how Linus will argue me, but not anyone else.
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:00pm
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What's to argue? We are all in agreement that it was excessive. You just have the need to still argue with someone that agrees with you because their name is "Linus". -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:28pm
No, because you still think that throwing a 15 year old girl facefirst into a wall by her hair is ok. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:30pm
Really now? Hmm, I guess I didn't write this then
But I never said he should have gone about it in a different manner either. Oh wait, I DID. You guys are a hoot... you aregue with someone who agrees with you on the majority of something, but they have a different view on one single thing and OMG YOU ARE WRONG!!!! -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:33pm
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But you agree with throwing her face first into a wall.
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:39pm
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Not just me, jmac, as Mack does as well.
I view the initial push in to the wall, while pretty aggressive, totally warranted. Do I agree with? Nope. Do I understand? Yes. You don't have to, and of course choose not to, agree with that view. That's fine. Any force beyond what was required to get to the wall (which he used a bit much) I view as excessive. Or will I have to rephrase that even more for some of you, as I've stated it multiple times in 3 pages now. And on top of that; Most police departments have policies AGAINST strikes to the head. I don't know about that PD, but I'm willing to bet they do too, and that officer was in the wrong for any and every strike to the head, especially once on the floor with her pretty much subdued. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:41pm
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I don't think Mack agrees: "First, the reaction of the attacking officer appears to be an anger-based response as opposed to a measured escalation. Since she needs to be subdued at this point, the most appropriate response would have been direct her to face the wall (or something along those lines) for cuffing. " ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:46pm
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Too much butthurt in this thread. Where the hell is Dune btw? -------------
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:48pm
Well, I really don't want to argue another forum members words, but;
Seriously, I don't get what your problem is. You just seem to have a hardon whenever it comes to me and a thread about supposed or actual police brutality. It doesn't matter if I agree with you or not, in your mind I'm still somehow always wrong, no matter the view. Damned if I do, damned if I don't I suppose. EDIT: Yeah... Dunes been missing from many of the most recent cop threads. Kinda scares me. I think he died from happiness when Obama was inaugurated. -------------
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:50pm
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I miss Dune.
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:53pm
So you understand that he overreacted and threw her face first into a wall? |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:55pm
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Guess I'll go through the rigmarole again.
Did he overreact? Yup. No denying that. Could he have dealt with it in another way? Of course. Was the push into the wall justified? Yes. Do I agree with HOW he pushed her? No. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:56pm
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Mother of god...
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:57pm
Linus how hard is it to say: "Handcuffing her was justified, everything else they did was over the line" Just because he COULD have pushed her into the wall more gently, or appropriately and cuffed her there does not mean that the push was justified. It wasn't the same push, and the intent wasn't the same. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:05am
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Ok, so time #6 phrasing this?
I can't speak for Canada, but in the US in the prisons I've visited, if a prisoner throws something, generally, there is a leeway time where the cops tell them to lie on the floor and hands outstretched. Then they get bumrushed into the corner and cuffed. Everything else he did WAS EXCESSIVE. This is true from Crowley City Jail, to Tarrant County Jail, to the Federal prison in Huntsville, to the Oakland County Sheriffs office. How else can I phrase this to get it through? -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:07am
Didn't happen. Which is the point. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:09am
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A certain imageboard on 4chan had a thread or two up today about this. I lol'd when they started posting the cop's personal info. I fell asleep before any win was achieved but I assume they had a little fun.
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:10am
Did you miss the part where I said "GENERALLY", as all circumstances are different, such as open doors... oh look, her's was open. Heh. -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:11am
??? ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:14am
Yes I wanted to see his retardation. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:16am
When in fact, you proved to be the retarded one for arguing with someone that agrees with you on everything except a damn wall. -------------
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:19am
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Methinks someone is being trolled. -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:20am
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Sooo, you're just waiting for Linus to post his views which you expect to irritate you, and then become frustrated and lash out at him when he does so? Well that clears things up. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:21am
Short memory.... You also argued by saying the the kick was justified. The he kicked at her right foot to stop her from flicking her other shoe. He kicked to the other side. Not to mention I was arguing because you said he was justified until she hit the wall, whereas I said he wasn't justified well before she hit the wall. Also, this isn't me arguing anymore. I just felt like reminding you of what you seem to forget. EDIT: Yes Darur. I didn't actually think he could POSSIBLY at all agree with this. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 1:41am
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I forgot how much Linus pissed me off. Good times. -------------
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Posted By: pb125
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 1:48am
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<watch it> ------------- 
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 8:24am
Or 2 paddles to the rear with a ruler.
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 10:25am
Only works on 18-24 year olds, sadly. -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 10:33am
| I think things would have worked out better if she would have done her homework and cleaned her room. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 10:37am
Or if she wore flip flops. -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 10:45am
| Those weren't flip flops? I really like how she positioned herself for maximum effect by flipping her shoes off with her arms crossed. Looked deadly. Classic childish tantrum move on her part. I guess it can be argued in court that she was performing geenie magic in addition to her violent, physical attack. |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:10am
only if it happened in the south |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:21am
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One other thing I noted that I felt the need to mention everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the individual was a 15 year old girl who weighed maybe 100 pounds. [SARCASM] Would the officer have been justified if it had been a middle-aged pudgy guy? [/SARCASM] Seriously, that fact was probably not in the officer's mind when he got physical with her. In situations like this, training takes over and you no longer see a person. In the military, you see a target that needs to be engaged; law enforcement see a perpetrator that needs to be controlled. The rightness/wrongness of the officer's actions needs to be judged without regard to the victim/perpetrator.. -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:32am
fixed?
She has the same right to instictively react to the cops over-reaction. What would you do if someone was pummeling your head in?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:39am
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That's one of the things I really don't have a definite view on;
Lets take police dogs into the convo for a second. If a dog was attacking me, I'd fight it. BUT at the same time, we expect offenders to not do anything when a dog attacks them, and if they DO, we let the dog keep attacking. BUT, the offender would not be in that position if they had done what was told of them in the first place, so it really just turns in to a vicious circle of the offender not doing whats told, so a dog attacks, so he fights the dog when told not to, which makes the dog attack more, which makes him fight more. Now replace dog with cop, and if a suspect resist the cop, the cop will use more force which will lead to more resistance, which again means more force. So who's to blame? The cop who is a prime example of violence begets violence, or the offender who would not be in the situation had they not been an ignorant idiot? AM I making sense with this rambling? -------------
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:52am
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^^^ Actually yes. It is a valid question. But you will get trolled anyway. -------------
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:54am
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Meh, after 6 years I'm used to it. -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 11:58am
| I think what I'm trying to say is that when the hammer falls her instinctive actions will be considered justifiiable by the jury. The cops violence speaks for itself. Cop fries. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:09pm
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:16pm
No he won't get trolled, because fighting back against the dog or the cop is completely different than anything I have ever argued about. Let me think of some of the cop things I have argued against: There was this, there was a cop who choked out some skateboarders(and it just so happens a girl who was like 15), and I actually can't think of anymore. I know there was more. EDIT: He didn't "enter" the room with intentions to just cuff her. He clearly had the intentions to kick before her hands were up, as he was running in the room. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:29pm
Agreed with this--- it's always the person who reacts that gets in more trouble, no matter how big or small the original transgression was. Do I hope the cop loses his job like some people here do? No, as we simply do not know his record. Why ruin his family's life?
Oh, so you can read peoples minds now, can you? Quick--- do I like or not like turkey sandwiches? -------------
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 1:11pm
| Linus, I like to think that a human should have a bit more cognitive capacity and ability to reason than a dog which has been trained to go all or nothing. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 1:21pm
No I don't read minds.... He was running in the room with his leg up...which brought her hands up.... Why am I still even bothering? ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 1:33pm
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If i did that in the street to anyone who bumped into me or looked at me without the respect i obviously deserve (that's what it boils down to). I'd be in jail getting a beating off some coppers in about 2 minutes flat.
He is not fit to be a policeman. I don't know what he is used to dealing with on his beat, But any cop worth there hat will take the abuse, The guns, the knifes and the attacks on the chin and do the job they volunteered for. Would your opinions be different if he was at home and that was his daughter?
He told her to take her shoes off. She did. All be it with a bit of attitude.
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 1:49pm
Yeah, except linus this still doesn't justify the AMOUNT of force. I don't think anyone has an issue with the fact she was handcuffed. Yeah, she deserved the cuffs, but that was it. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 2:01pm
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I'll bet her response next time will be "How high sir? " |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 2:30pm
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I think the level of force here was completely appropriate. It shows the rest of the pissy 15 year olds who expect the world to kiss their ass that these particular police officers aren't to be screwed with. In fact, the only thing he could have done better was to knee cap her. ------------- ? |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 2:32pm
HAHA. I actually think her next resposne will be "GO ahead hit. You'll just have to give me money" ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 March 2009 at 2:42pm
I am sure if she continues on the path she is on, she will be taking money from men a lot. Mainly in singles.
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