This brings me to the next point. I firmly believe that religion is the #1 detriment to the development of the global society. The two conflicts in which we are currently engaged in are in the name of religion. Our former President declared that "God" wants everyone in the world to be free, somehow legitimizing his actions. The cause for the Afghanistan War was religion (Jihad on America via cowardly terrorist attacks). Genocide is ongoing in Africa because of religion. More people have been killed and persecuted in the name of religion than anything else in human history. In my opinion, religion will cause the apocalypse, and I'm not talking about Jesus coming back. I mean nuclear war because of Jihad or a modern Crusade.

I do not understand how a civilization smart enough to develop the technology to destroy everything we know in seconds can believe in the fairy tales of all religions. The Bible and the Koran are both primitive books teaching ancient ideals that do not apply in modern society. Most of the stories are beyond ludicrous and if they weren't printed in the Bible, we would laugh at them and dismiss them as children's books. People can be perfectly happy, moral, and successful without abiding by the absolutely ridiculous dogmas of religion. The world would be a better place without these silly beliefs. Statistically, I know most everyone in the world disagrees. I don't care. It's a shame that humanity's infinite potential is being crippled by religion. 

Okay T&Oers, what are your thoughts and opinions on religion?

P.S. It looks like the forum might've finally gotten an update. I remember many a thread complaining the crappy system used. 

TL;DR: I think religion is a farce and is the #1 problem with modern society. Thought & Opinions?

I watched Religulous the day it was released. Although it is clearly one-sided, I did indeed love it. I've forced almost all of my friends to watch it. I don't preach atheism, but I want them to at least see my side of the argument. 

About the graph - If you removed the names of the eras and put it on a standardized test, every single person would say that the black era was the most primitive and regressive. 

Also, invoking George W and the Iraqi war as some kind of religious war is not only ridiculous, I'd say it ranks up there with Bush creating hurricanes and blowing up the Trade Centers.

 

And religion will not cause the apocalypse, fights over resources will cause the apocalypse. The world is only going to get smaller as populations increase, and with modern anti-war movements among the superpowers eventually tensions over oil, economy, and power will cause a massive war between them.

 

Another hole in your theory is that in reality, while modern war is often justified with religion, rarely is it based on it. The modern world functions, as I said earlier, as a battle for power, and religion is  a pawn in that battle.

 

As for Christianity controlling every aspect of your life, replace the word Christianity with any random subsitute for morals, dignity, or pride and you get the same result. Your life will always be governed by a set of rules and limits, that's called being a modern society. You can attach the name Christianity, but just because a moral comes from the Bible does not mean it is bad.

 

Otherwise, without some kind of moral backing, society would fail.

 

If we were to make this discussion deeper, and really dig into individual Biblical principles, I don't think anyone here would argue with 80% of them.

 

Calling religion a fairy tail is not only narrow minded, it's conceited and arrogant. While I feel it's your right to believe what you want, when your beliefs give you a sense of superiority over other people, at what point do you become what you hate?

 

You took that completely the wrong way.

 

From a government standpoint if the people fear a religion, and you endorse it, you gain the respect and therefore the following of your people.

 

In other words religion has been, for better or for worse, a way of keeping order to the masses by governments throughout history.

 

As I said in the other part of my post, I don't believe that believing in God gives you a set of morals, but justifies a set of morals you already had.

 

In other word what people label as Christianity when it comes to the rules of living is really just another moral code, no different from any other.

 

Every atheist has (or at least should) have a moral code that they live by. The hypocrisy I see in atheists or agnostics that choose to blame religion for the problems of the world is that they themselves are bound to their own personal code of ethics, they just chose to remove the God label, and in their minds receive +10 intelligence points.

 

I've seen it with friends, even relatives and girlfriends, but in the end Christianity's rules of living are simply a moral code.

 

The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.

 

 

Roll Tide wrote: I remembered this board as one of the places where I sort of discovered atheism and the realization that it was okay to reject modern Christianity.

 

Heres To You wrote: Although arguing religion or stating your views on religion is pretty much pointless through a forum.

 

hmm...

Now I'm not arguing any sides at all what so ever, I'm just stating that it's nice to have something to believe in. If someone very close to you dies, is it not nice to know that one day you will see them again?  I think it'd be awefully killer otherwise, but I guess people deal with it.  That's just me though.

I'm not saying religions are right or wrong, whatever your view is is your view.  I'm just saying I have faith.  I can't prove anything exists or doesn't exist, but I can at least hope and believe right?  And that's about all I got for this topic.

Good post. A few things: Dubya did not invoke God, but if you listened to him defend the war in his last years, he certainly justified it through religion. "God wants everyone in the world to be free." While I agree that the main doctrines of the world religions are peaceful and moral in theory, they are violent, primitive things in practice. If all Christians were actually Christ-like and all Muslims followed the Koran's more peaceful messages, we wouldn't have a problem. Whale said that he's fine with religion as long as it doesn't get involved in politics. I agree 100%, but I also realize that as long as we have religion (and thus religious fundamentalists), that will never happen. The terrible things done in the name of religion outweigh the benefits that it brings to our modern society. I will not argue that faith was critical in the development of our world. I simply believe that humans have outgrown religion.

To the person who said calling religion a fairy tale is "conceited and arrogant": far more conceited and arrogant things have been done in the name of God. Get over it. 

 

Yeah my whole MO and the reason why I am on this forum is to be a negative nancy to anyone I can. I said I agreed with what Eville said Do you want me to re-write what he typed so you can understand that I belive Man himself chooses what is right and wrong and not some religion and some paper back novel?


and lol at your How's that for garbage. I bet you really banged that into your keyboard.

 

I don't the issue here is the origin of religion, or the legitimacy of it, but the negative / positive effect it's had on society.

 

Again, I believe that religion has been the scapegoat throughout the ages. War go good? Give God credit. War go bad? Blame the other people's god. Man uses religion as a crutch, when things go good he gives Him credit, when things go bad they blame themselves for not being pious enough. It gives them a sense that not everything is dependent upon self motivation, or control of your life.

 

That being said, let me clarify my relgious view. I'm of Christian belief, but I don't believe that God actively works in the world in an obvious manner. I dont' believe that God allows people to die, or that He is always to credit for allowing them to live. More than miraculous cures I believe more in life being incredibly random, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. My belief in God gives me Help dealing with life, but it doesn't change life for me.

 

Why do I say that? To explain how I see religion on the whole. While there are the fanatics out there, I think that many people that claim religion are simply using it to sell something to the masses. Use war for instance. It's obligatory to ask God for help in time of war-that doesn't mean that that war was a religious war, it means that religion was invoked.

 

I don't think you can blame Islam for the current terrorist actions around the world, I think you can blame an anarchist anti-government agenda that is cloaked with religion to sell it the third world masses. The unfortunate fact is that the religious and the atheist alike buy into it, and black the eye of religion.

 

 

 

And again, I didn't imply that. I said atheists that feel Christianity is an imposing religion with controlling morals is hypocrisy, because atheists, just like Christians, define themselves by a moral code, they simply choose not to drop the God label on it.

 

I have no problem with atheists, many of my friends, my girlfriend included, are atheists. I have a problem with the attitude that being an atheist makes you intellectually superior to the religious for their beliefs.

 

But see, Christians that believe that God is just a buyout for heaven haven't studied the Bible. Jesus was the sacrifice to pay for your sins. It's your job to stop sinning at that point, and that's where the moral code comes in. Christians are supposed to live by a moral code, not do whatever feels good and feel like Jesus loves them either way so it doesn't matter.

 

And yes, I was raised not to use the term religion as well, but for this discussion we're not talking about you're or my Christianity, we're talking about religion on the whole.

 

This isn't a discussion of the ins and outs, or the justification of Christianity, it's a discussion of how religion on the whole as impacted society.

And you don't see the problem with this? 

 

I feel it's a big deal to the conversation because I don't see it as religion interfering, I see religion as being used after the fact.

 

Roll Tide wrote: stratoaxe wrote: Again, I believe that religion has been the scapegoat throughout the ages. War go good? Give God credit. War go bad? Blame the other people's god. Man uses religion as a crutch, when things go good he gives Him credit, when things go bad they blame themselves for not being pious enough. It gives them a sense that not everything is dependent upon self motivation, or control of your life. So are you arguing that this is a good thing? People might've made smarter and more calculated decisions if they knew that it was dependent upon self motivation. Either way, I'm not here to argue religion's role in the past as much as I am its role in the present and future. We now have the rationality to understand things we couldn't even begin to process 1000 years ago.

 

 

 

stratoaxe wrote:    I don't think you can blame Islam for the current terrorist actions around the world, I think you can blame an anarchist anti-government agenda that is cloaked with religion to sell it the third world masses. The unfortunate fact is that the religious and the atheist alike buy into it, and black the eye of religion.

 

 

But if you make the distinction, you see that it's not a religious persuasion, it's a political / power motive with religion glossed over.

 

So to sum up what I mean, I don't see religion negatively impacting the world, I see political fighting impacting the world, and the religion is being thrown out there for sheep of the religious world to baa at.

 

There are plenty of religious fights out there, and lots of extremists, but I don't see them impacting the progress of the modern world. If you look at the superpowers, including the USA, you'll find that religion is invoked in name only, but in action it would be the same with or without. So I don't feel that religion has a huge impact on the modern world, I think struggle over power and politics does.

 

And yes, I do believe the impact is there on an individual basis, but we're not discussing individuals, we're discussing the actions of the world powers and the progress of society. I don't see society, or government, in any way progressing based upon Christian beliefs.

 

It is clear we won't agree on this. I think you are vastly underestimating religion's role in global politics. 

If a young Muslim in Jerusalem walks into a coffee shop and blows himself up for the glory of Allah, I call that religious violence. To me, it doesn't matter if his superior was politically motivated, the reason he became a suicide bomber was because of his religion. The terrorists on the 9/11 planes were religiously motivated. Although the plot might've been political or even cultural (both of which are shaped by religion), the motivation was religious. 

I don't declare all Muslims evil. I declare all people who kill and persecute (particularly in the name of religion) to be evil. 

 

I agree we probably won't find much common ground on this issue, and there is validity to what you're saying. My issue is that I don't see religion impeding the success of society, esepecially considering that the radical Muslim extremist world counts for a lot smaller percentage of modern society than that of the major superpowers.

 

As far as the modern world goes, we live in society where pornography alone rakes in 10 billion a year, and the government on an almost yearly basis approves or supports idealogies that Christianity is at it's core opposed to, I'd say religion's role in politics as a progressive modern society is a minimal.

 

*edited for some rephrasing

 

Staying on track, religion really is the opiate of the masses. You can justify or advocate anything, and if you imply religion the people will calmy and with resolve back you.

 

Which is why I'm making the continual argument to discern between what was caused by religion, and what religion was blamed for by a government.

 

I don't really know where you were going with the Judeo Christian / Islam prayer rooms, but discrimination against Christianity in modern society is a completely seperate discussion.

 

I'll give you scientific progress, only for stem cells research though. As far as evolution, evolution's been the accepted theory of teaching for how many years-?

 

I'll be the first to admit religion contradicts science, but as far as society progressing, we bypassed religion a long time ago, except in regards to stem cell research, but that's a whole different debate.

 

In reality most of the Old Testament was void by the New. I won't go into all that, but as a general rule, and I know I'm not alone among Christianity, the Bible never even attempts to be a scientific book, so trying to argue religion with science, for science, or against science is an excercise in futility.

I am referring to organized religion. You can believe anything you want, that's your human right. However, when terrible things are done in the name of and justified by religion, I am going to blame both the person and the religion. It's similar to the "guns don't kill people, people do" argument. It takes two to tango, and without the person or the gun, the murder wouldn't have happened. 

 

And where you place the blame is your buisness, but let's say I kill someone and say Ron Howard told me to (ala Stroker and Hoop), under your idealogy Ron Howard would be guilty of murder by association.

 

Like you said, I don't think what anyone says is going to change your mind, but I see major flaws in both comparisons. Religion, again, has been the scapegoat of the ages.

 

As far as the gun goes, that spawns a whole nuther can of worms. I have a million arguments for that one, but I'll stop there

 

Just because the Old Testament was voided by the New according to the bible, doesnt mean that historical events in the old testament can be swapped out

 

Actually, the old and new testaments are completely seperate. The old testament was a collection of hand me down stories, the New Testament a completely seperate collection of letters declaring the works of Christ.