Serious question about police
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Topic: Serious question about police
Posted By: Linus
Subject: Serious question about police
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:13am
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I doubt this topic will be taken seriously but let's try.
Let's say someone breaks a law 4 times and the officer goes to cite them. If the officer does his job by the book and correctly, should he be fired for not showing compassion? If so, why? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:15am
| Depends on the law broken. If he is handing out a citation to some 90 year old woman living on social security because she didn't get her sidewalk cleared within 4 hours of the snow stopping, yeah, I would think he could show compassion. If it was DUI number 4.. no. And even then, for the old lady instance, I wouldn't think he should be fired, it would just make him a jack nut. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:16am
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I'm not really sure what you're asking... The way I read it, you're asking if an officer of the law should be canned for not showing compassion by following the rules while writing a citation? ------------- ? |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:20am
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If you're talking about the NFL player thing. Cop should not have been suspended ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:21am
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Let's say for the sake of argument the laws broken were running 2 stop lights and 2 stop signs at 2 am and refusing to stop for police right behind you for half a mile. -------------
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:26am
Gave it away too soon :( -------------
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jmac3 wrote:Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:27am
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I don't see a reason at all for the police to have been chastised for that sort of thing.
------------- ? |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:30am
Ha. Well the story I got he didn't break 4 laws either. He only "rolled through a stop sign". You also forgot to mention that the cop pulled his gun. I still think there was no need for him to get reprimanded. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:31am
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Ah, having read the whole story: Fired, No, although he could have gotten the information he needed from the player, and cited him later on. ------------- ? |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:32am
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I'd say no. Whats this compassion stuff you talk about? Respectful and polite but they still get the ticket/citation.
KBK |
Posted By: Elysium
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:36am
| I hope they fire that officer in TX. The mans mother-in-law was dieing and all he wanted to do was get him and his wife there to see her before she passed away. Put yourselr in the same spot would you stop at a red light or stop sings if it was your mother/mother-in-law that was about to die? Its BS what that officer did and he should not have been put on leave with pay IMO. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:37am
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Fail ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:37am
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link the story please.
------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:39am
Having actually watched the full 16 min video, he ran through 2 stop lights and 2 stop signs. He the proceeded to tell the cop to get his own insurance. Agreed reb, could have been handled differently but it wasn't and it's causing some people around here to have him fired. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:40am
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html - http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:40am
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Let's post the story shall we, so people have details and won't mistakenly thing the officer was acting appropriately here. The officer deserved reprimand, most likely suspension, and the department should take a look at its policy on "emergency" situations, such as people trying to get to a hospital in a hurry. Fired? No. But he did act inappropriately. _____________ DALLAS — Racing to see his dying mother-in-law at a Plano hospital, an NFL player found himself delayed by a Dallas officer as her life ebbed away. It's a story that has sparked outrage across North Texas and generated interest around the country. Dallas police Chief David Kunkle faced reporters Thursday afternoon to express his embarrassment over the incident and to publicly apologize to the family. He said the officer involved failed to use common sense. Officer Robert Powell, a three-year veteran, has been placed on leave facing internal charges of misconduct. It all started in the early morning hours of March 17. With his wife and another woman in the car, Ryan Moats — a running back for the Houston Texans — sped his car toward Baylor Regional Medical Center of Plano. But when the Moats arrived at the emergency room parking lot, they were stopped by Officer Robert Powell, who reportedly drew his service revolver on the concerned family members. Dashcam video from the Dallas officer's patrol car captured the incident. "Get in there," Officer Powell yelled out to Tamishia Moats, Ryan's wife, as she exited the car. "Let me see your hands. Get in there. Put your hands on the car." "Excuse me; my mom is dying," Tamisha Moats replied. She and the other woman ignored Officer Powell's commands and rushed inside the hospital to her dying mother as Ryan Moats and Officer Powell went back-and-forth over insurance paperwork the NFL player was unable to locate. MOATS: "I've got seconds before she's gone, man." POWELL: "Listen: If I can't verify you have insurance..." MOATS: "My mother-in-law is dying!" POWELL: "Listen to me." MOATS: "Right now, you're wasting my time." POWELL: "If you can't verify you have insurance, I'm going to tow your car. So, you either find it or I am going to tow the car." As they argued, the officer got irritated. POWELL: "Shut your mouth. Shut your mouth. You can either settle down and cooperate, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light." "I certainly hope anybody who saw the videotape immediately understood how serious the misconduct is," Chief Kunkle said Thursday afternoon. "I don't know how you train for these circumstances other than to hire people with good common sense and people skills." In a telephone interview, Moats said the clash with the officer was totally unexpected. "For him to not even be sympathetic at all, and basically we're dogs or something and we don't matter — it basically shocked me," he said. No compassion was indicated in the police recording of the incident. "I can screw you over," Officer Powell said. "I would rather not do that. You obviously will dictate everything that happens; and right now, your attitude sucks." "My understanding is that Officer Powell — even after he saw the videotape — believed he had not acted inappropriately," Chief Kunkle said, a view that was underscored by Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson, who reviewed the tape with Officer Powell on Wednesday. "His belief was simply that he was doing his job," Chief Simpson said. "It did concern me that it just seemed that the compassion was not there." The hospital twice sent nurses to try and get the officer to release Moats. "We're blue-coding her for the third time," a nurse said on the police videotape. A Plano police officer stopped to make a plea for the officer to let Moats go. "Hey, that's the nurse," the Plano officer said. "She says the mom is dying right now, and she wants to know if I can get him up there." Finally, after a 20-minute delay, the officer ticketed Moats for running a red light. By the time Moats made it up to the emergency room, his mother-in-law was dead. "I went up after she passed and held her hand, but she was already gone," Moats said in a telephone interview. Dallas police have launched a review of the incident. “When it came to our attention, we immediately called for an internal investigation to be done,” said police spokesman Lt. Andy Havey. "The essence of being a police officer is common sense and discretion," Chief Kunkle added. "I can't imagine a worse circumstance." WFAA.com has received over 1,000 comments comments about the incident since the story first aired on Channel 8 Wednesday night. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:40am
Fired for doing his job? laff. If the guy had taken the time to stop at lights and signs, he probably would have SAVED time, as opposed to going through the showdown in the parking lot. Do I feel badly for the guy for not being there? Yeah, but come on. ------------- ? |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:42am
And if he would have killed someone at an intersection? He wasn't dying and no one in his vehicle was. Their being at the hospital would not have saved her life. -------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:43am
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Whale why do you think he acted inappropriately? The man's wife(and one other person) ran out of the car and into the hospital. That normally would be grounds for like an arrest or something. Hell I don't even think he called back up or anything. Maybe I am wrong, but usually when cops pull somone over and people get out and run they call for backup. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:44am
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Yes, a reprimand is in order because the police officer, although doing his job, did it wrongly. But fired? No. I still maintain that if Moats had obeyed the freakin traffic laws in the first place, he'd have made it in time. Whose fault is it that this whole thing happened at all? It just goes to prove that 'black and white' circumstances are mythological. ------------- ? |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:44am
Of course not. However, the situation does change how the officer should have reacted and handled the situation. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:51am
Agreed 100%.
No doubt. But having people you love in the hospital makes people act irrationally. I actually have a life-story example here. When I was one year old, I got a really bad infection, I was running a dangerous fever, passed out and was not reacting to antibiotics. My mom rushes me to the hospital. My dad, who was on duty at the fire station in downtown Orlando, gets a call from my mom in the hospital (which is also in downtown), and immediately rushes over there in his vehicle. On the way he rolls through a stop sign. A police officer pulls him over. All it took was my dad saying "My toddler is in the emergency room" and the officer offered to drive in front of him and essentially "escort" him to the ER. Did my dad get the ticket? Yes. The officer gave it to him AFTER he got there. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:51am
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In fact, now watching the video everyone is out of the car. Find me a traffic stop where that would be outlawed. Not to mention he told the cop he doesn't have insurance and to go find it himself. I am also mad that the first article I read tried to say it was racial. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:57am
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Whale, you can't condense a 16 min video into a 30 second convo for a new article and expect It to be fair. You simply can't.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:02pm
How? What parts do you think are being omitted? I'm not going to lie, when I read this story, my first thought was "Man, I don't think even Linus could possibly think this guy was Ok." Especially not because his own chief said:
And especially because the officer involved said:
Direct quotes from the tape. How is that, under any circumstances, OK for a police officer to say. Especially to someone who had told him that he was on his way to the hospital to see a dying relative? |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:07pm
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Whale, in response to your real life story: that's how the situation SHOULD have been handled. I don't fault the officer for doing his job. The MANNER in how he did it is a completely different story.
------------- ? |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:14pm
No argument there. I just personally don't understand Linus's need to justify it, and lack of cognitive ability to understand that situations do change how a police officer should deal with a situation with "compassion." No offense to him, but it makes me glad he is not a police officer. Besides, that was not my only trip to that hospital. Shortly after I was better from that whole infection thing (I was still one year old), I was running through the living room and stepped on a HotWheel. I caught myself on the corner of the coffee table and split my forehead open. Another trip to Orlando Regional Hospital, this time wrapped in a bloody towel with my dad driving. Here are two tips, Reb. 1) Have the hospital on speed dial, 2) Get a tiny helmet. |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:19pm
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Everyone who breaks the law has an excuse.
Just because you think your reason is better than someone else's you shouldn't need to be punished? I'll admit I haven't seen the video, but if you want a police escort to a hospital, you can call them and arrange one. KBK |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:22pm
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when i see linus post a thread, i always click, and i always end up laughing. ITT it was linus saying he was doing things right because no one in the car was dying... nevermind the fact that there was a dying relative in the hospital. I would love to see how linus drove if his mom was dying in the hospital. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:23pm
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I don't understand how scenes change? Sorry but remember what I do for a second. If in working on someone in my rig and the family insist on being in there and I say no, my word is final; they are not getting in.
I also stated that yes it could have been handled differently once already. Could is not the same as should. Third, as for the news article, 3 things wrong with it. It doesn't state how beligerant the guy was, doesn't state that he ran 2 lights and 2 signs, and says the stop took 20 minutes. The video is only 16 minutes long, the first few if which the officer was trying to stop the car. -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:25pm
Ok, but I would say that going to be by the side of a dying relative in the hospital is a pretty good one, if you are going to claim that.
Again, situations change things. Good police officers know this. Bad ones, like the one in our case here, don't.
You can read quotes from the audio and video in the story.
I'm sure the first thing on anyone's mind once they hear that a relative is dying in the hospital is "Let call and get an escort." Dying relatives, much like sick children, make people act in irrational ways. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:36pm
You are not a police officer, thank God. You've proven, at least on here, you do not have the ability for it. I don't think the chief in this situation thinks you should either: "The essence of being a police officer is common sense and discretion," Chief Kunkle added.
Cool. Not the same as what we have here. Now, if you act like a jerk to the family, and say something like: "I can screw you over," then maybe we could have a proper analogy here.
Apparently the Chief disagrees with you. I am going to assume he is a better judge at this kind of thing than you. Also, another thing that makes me glad you didn't go the police route for your career.
1) Of course he is going to be "belligerent." He is trying to go see a dying family member. 2) Saying what he was pulled over for should have been in the story, yes. Probably a victim of hurried writing. 3) The video I have seen has been on news sites. It might have been cut down for time, or some actions may have taken place outside of the camera's view. Or the reporter might have gotten the time wrong. I don't know what difference it makes. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:38pm
Noted. I'm down to a matter of weeks, so I'm gathering all the tips I can now before its too late. Linus, your initial post was misleading. I'm not going to attack you, but based on the information in the IP, I'd have sided with the officer 100% of the time. In fact, I still agree that dropping the hammer on someone who broke the law was a good idea. However, the devil is in the details. Human emotion aside, the officer's approach to the situation was pretty far removed from professionalism. Once the intricacies of the story come to light, the officer involved was clearly having what a friend of mine refers to as an "a-hole attack" He knew what his job was, perhaps all too well. I squarely place the blame for this whole thing on the player- but the actions of the officer made a bad thing worse. I mean it wouldn't have taken much for the officer to jot down a license plate, or something like that. ------------- ? |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:54pm
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Based on what I have seen and read (not from this site).
I'd say he should be repremanded, and taken off the streets. Possibly fired... if this type of thing has happened before.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/ny-spmoats0327,0,2596207.story - http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/ny-spmoats0327,0,2596207.story
The "suspects" wife got to see her mom before she died, by leaving the scene, the "suspect" didn't.
Clear power trip by the officer. And complete lack of compassion.
The officers are to protect and SERVE. Many departments have even left the "protect" off their service seals.
We all make choices. And we have to live with the outcomes of these choices. It will be interesting to see how the police "union" handles this... ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:59pm
When you willfully break the law you take the responsibility for your actions. He got stopped by a cop. I don't see how whining to a new network makes him suddenly in the right.
True this wasn't a picture perfect incident, but running 2 lights and 2 stops is serious. Will it REALLY save that much time, and is it right putting other people's lives at risk?
Why NOT? Because you have piss poor planning you expect the world to change it's rules for you? If you don't have the local cop shop, hospital and fire station on your cell phone, you are being silly. Your first reaction to any situation shouldn't be blind panic and mad rush. Stop whatever you are doing now and spend a couple minutes thinking up emergency plans. If you ever need to use them, you will be able to save valuable time. A little forethought goes a LONG way. If he was SO mad about seeing his mother in law, he should have told the cop "Tow it" and gone to see her. Take a cab home. The cop was acting like a turd, and he should have gotten a talking to about handling sensitive situations. And this was one. However Moats did break the law. Take your lumps. KBK |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:04pm
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Oh my God.... I agree with FreeEnterprise. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:10pm
I don't think anyone is saying he is in the right. He should not have driven through the stop signs. Nobody is doubting that. What people are upset with is how the officer handled the situation. You said it yourself: Act polite, people still get the ticket. The officer was not polite. He acted out of line. The tickets are not the problem here.
Again, fine, ticket him AFTER he gets to the hospital, and after the officer makes sure he gets there safely. SERVE and protect, like FE said.
Shouldn't be. But for most people, it is.
He should be reprimanded/suspended/whatever, not fired, like I have said. And again, NOBODY is refuting the fact that Moats broke the law. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:11pm
/Universe. ------------- ? |
Posted By: You Wont See Me
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:18pm
 ------------- A-5 E-Grip JCS Dual Trigger DOP X-CORE 8 stage x-chamber Lapco Bigshot 14" Beadblasted Optional setup: R/T Dead on Blade trigger |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:18pm
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I hear it is snowing in hell.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:36pm
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I just sat and watched the video. IMO the officer was 100% in the right up until about 1/2 way through when there was confirmation from what looked like a paramedic or nurse that the mother was indeed dying. I think the right thing to do would have been to hold the suspects license and perhaps have another officer or paramedic escort him up to see his mother. From what I heard, up until that moment, he had not verification of anything that was told to him. Also, if you listen closely, you can hear another officer in the background talking to Mloats trying to get him to calm down and all he kept doing was get more and more disrespectful. If you want respect, you need to be respectful as well. You can't see the officer pulling his gun, but technically, they were fleeing. I understand people are upset when a loved one is dying, but the mother was dying from cancer. It wasn't a surprise, it wasn't unexpected. Perhaps, they should have all planned for this contingency and made their amends when they had the chance. The comparisonj keeps being made of rushing an injured relative to the hospital. This is unfair as they weren't trying to save a life. She was going to die whether they go there in 5 minutes or 1 hour. IMO, if he is fired more than one tragedy will have taken place. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:44pm
To clarify, I used the baby-Whale story as an example of the general situation of "Trying to quickly get to the hospital because of [insert reason here]." Really any reason works, because it is the reasoning of making otherwise rational people act in irrational ways. Nine days out of 10, Moats would not have ran a stop sign or a red light. It is not rational behavior. I'm not saying that the irrational behaviour is correct either. In a perfect world, a plan is made on how to get to the hospital quickly and safely. However, as a police officer, your job is to deal with the situation. If the person you pull over his near-hysteria to get to the hospital, or to get inside to see their relative, you, as the officer, are supposed to be the one to handle the situation in an appropriate and rational manner that won't progress the situation where it shouldn't go. Even OTHER police officers understood this, like the third-party officer who approached the situation.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 2:00pm
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As much as an officer has the power to do certain things, he also has the ability to do others. He reacted wrongly, and while I don't think suspension or termination is the answer, I think that he should receive the lecture of his life, and be forced to endure some classes.
Part of being an officer is having some sense of humanity. Just like Whale's story, my Dad had a similar story where his sister had taken too much of a certain medicine as a child and had to be rushed to to the hospital. A Ft Worth cop (coolest cops in existence btw) got in front of him with flashing lights and escorted him at high speed to the hospital.
I'm sure stories like that are rare nowadays, just because of liability and news cameras, but he could have at least issued the ticket after the man saw his mother. ------------- 
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 2:10pm
So if I am hysterical and run a red light and kill a bus full of babies, does it make it ok? No. Moats was still wrong and should have realized his mistake and manned up and spoken to the officer respectfully to get the situation cleared up as quickly as possible. Instead, he acted like a mushroom head and got flippant with the officer, thus creating more problems for himself.
I also beleive I stated that I agreed with the officer was in the right until he was informed by the nurses/paramedics or whatever they were in the blued jackets in the video. I never heard anything before that in the video verifying Moats story. You can't blame the officer for doing what he did up until that point as he did not have a handle on the situation. They are lucky he didn't chase them down and handcuff them for leaving the scene. When an officer tells you to stop, you stop. You don't continue walking away from him. 'Yes sir, how high sir? "
And the third party officer emplored Moats to settle down and all he did was get more beligerent. Perhaps the third party officer should have offered to take Moats up to see his mother.
And again, I will state.. It was not a life threatening situation. Plan better.
I also think that a Moats family member is automatically screaming racism is pitiful. Always with the race card.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 2:32pm
First of all, what is a bus doing full of babies? 
I agree.
Agree again. However, I believe that in a situation like this, the burden of controlling the situation and making it better ultimately falls on the officer. The officer is the one in the correct mindset.
While I am not saying right or wrong, I can almost guarantee that doing this would have lead to the officer's termination from the department.
It would have been, I believe, the correct thing to do for either officer to offer to do this, and then discuss the violations and insurance after. I know talking about traffic violations with someone who just watched a family member die is not going to be easy, but from the looks of things the situation wasn't going to plan anyway. Also, how much respect would have been earned by the officer if he would have offered to walk the family up to the room? I like to think the situation would have been drastically different, and Moats and family, the third officer, the nurses, the police chief, the media and the public would be seeing the officer in a much different light.
Agreed 100%, but, I recognize it as something much easier said than done.
I agree. This officer was probably going to be a jerk, no matter skin color. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 2:58pm
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I think you are missing my point that the officer did not get confirmation that the story Moats was telling was in fact true until 1/2 through the video when the nurses/paramedics or whatever came over and told him the situation. At least that is what I heard from the video. I am pretty sure it would have been considered against protocol to just let a suspect walk away in this situation without some sort of back up or confirmation. Once he had verification of the situation, then yes, he should have let Moats go see his mother. Not until then. IMO he was being gracious in letting the other occupants of the vehicle leave prior to having this. You can't just let people walk away. We knew what the situation was before we even watched the video, he didn't.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:02pm
Understandable. Although I still want to know what a bus is doing packed full of babies. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:33pm
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Of course they were being transported to free daycare on my taxpayer dime, so the |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:45pm
Are you confusing compassion for professionalism? ------------- 
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 3:47pm
And if that person just happens to kill somebody on the way to the hospital, that would be ok, right? -------------
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 4:15pm
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After reviewing the tape, the officer was in the right up to the point he said, "I'll screw with you..." I have to wonder - had Moats not been an NFL player, would this have hit the news like it did? -------------
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 4:21pm
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T-T-TRIPLE POST!
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 6:25pm
Wait, you'd have fired a cop for stopping suspects fleeing the sceene of the crime? Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. KBK |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 8:42pm
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This is ridiculous. How can you people even argue this? Oh and why am I agreeing with Linus? The only reason this cop got in trouble was because the man was an NFL player and this was bound to hit the news. The department suspended him with pay so as to not start some nonsense by cop hating people(like myself usually) He had his lights on for a good amount of time and they continued along until they parked. Once parked EVERYONE was out of the car and two people ran. I am surprised no one got arrested, seeing as how in any other case I am sure back up would have been called. The player was being flat out disrespectful to the cop and not listening to him to calm down. Not to mention they were out of the car walking around close to the cop. Had they stopped when he originally turned his lights on and explained the situation rather than "running" I am sure the cop would have understood. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 10:01pm
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Whale;
The reason why I mention a patient in my rig is because it's happened. I was working a patient who was 30 weeks pregnant and was body slammed in her abdomen by her boyfriend. We get her in to the rig, and her sister came out, opened the doors and tried coming in. Her reasoning? "I'm a nurse, I'm allowed in here". Nope, sorry, not now, good bye. I have the right to kick anyone off the scene if they are interfering with my job. We later found out she went to the hospital, where she doesn't work, and went in to an employee only place.. "I'm a nurse, it's ok". So, why did I mention this? On a scene where emergency personnel are present, THEY are in charge, no matter who you are. This goes for firefighters, EMS, and police. If any of the three say stop or leave, and you do not, guess what? Arrested. Most peoples qualm with this incident is him saying "I can mess with you". Again, emergency personnel can use veiled threats to get control of a situation or a person. If a patient of mine refuses care, I am required by law to inform them of the consequences. This includes saying "You can die" If they refuse to leave, I can tell them they will be arrested for a class A misdemeanor, interfering with a public servant.; If someone wont back away from a fire apparatus, a firefighter can say "You will be arrested if you don't leave" ; If someone is out of hand towards an officer, they can say "You will be arrested". The officer was perfectly calm and collected in the beginning of the video, in spite of an ass that yells and is acting belligerent and telling him how to do his job. The officer said "I can screw you over, but I'd rather not do that". The suspect didn't say a single nice thing until 6 minutes in when he finally wises up and says "sir". The whole while, the father was standing there being quiet, and doing everything correctly. And here's the kicker--- the officer even says "If you would have stopped and told me what was going on, I would have let you go"... then the idiot proceeds to raise his voice and lecture the cop again! I go to that hospital every shift... those roads are busy as hell even at 2 am. He put way too many lives in jeopardy for his on selfish wants. He would have been in that room far sooner had he followed the law and not been stopped. The stop took 12 minutes (not the 20 the article wrongfully claims). -------------
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Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 10:57pm
As an EMT, you should know: having compassion matters as much as knowing how to use your powers. You may be well within your protocols by refusing to allow a dying one's spouse on board your ambulance, but you also know that it's the more human thing to do to let people say their last words to each other should your efforts fail. Yes, he broke the law and could have risked many lives on the way. But the fact is, he made it there without harming anybody. By then, the danger was over. He should have let him see his mother then file whatever citations he had to afterward. As for saying "I can screw you over," he might as well have said "I'm going to go beyond my duties to punish you." A statement like that is way out of line. That's like telling a patient "If you go down on me again, I wont resuscitate you to the best of my ability." Putting the officer on leave is a bit extreme. The worst that should have been done was to give him a stern lecture and take him off the streets for a little while. ------------- 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 10:59pm
That worked so well in this situation too.  It's not worth my keystrokes repeating myself again in pointing out the general fallacies in what you wrote. I take comfort, though, that the Chief of Police there seems to have more common sense than you do. I get the sense, from this thread, that most rational people here agree on the side of the Police Chief. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:06pm
As I said in my post, the police chief probably only suspended the officer because it was an NFL player. He knew there would be coverage and people complaining that he got stopped by a cop on the way to see his dying grandmother. Any other normal person I doubt the police chief would have cared. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:20pm
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Whale--
The Dallas chief around these parts is known to never back up his officers if the press puts pressure on him for something they have done. Not really someone I want to work for. Tolgak, completely agree, but you, sir, should also be learning that there are times where you must put your foot down on something, no matter the public's view. As you have probably seen, the public knows NOTHING when it comes to what emergency services does. There is a reason why anyone outside of an agencies PR is forbidden from talking to the press--- they twist and turn the facts in to something that will sell, and more often then not, misrepresent the truth. Case in point is the very article that Whale posted. -------------
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 11:46pm
OMG, I agree with JMac. Hell hath frozen over.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 1:11am
Yes, the big bad evil media is at fault here, clearly. |
Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 1:28am
| Pfff, if telling an officer that you are headed somewhere to see a dying relative will get you out of a ticket. I'll tell and officer of the law that everytime. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 1:48am
Yes, because it's so wrong to call them out when they purposefully misrepresent the time of the stop and what the offender originally did. -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 1:59am
I hope that the irony of this statement is not lost.
I don't recall not calling them out. I even said that it probably got lost in hurried writing, which is really unfortunate. And, if the time was indeed purposefully misrepresented, then shame on the writer. However, having reported on police matters for quite a while, I know that numbers can be different on police reports than they are when you talk to the PIO. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 2:12am
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Well, seeing as how they got the quotes from the videotape, how in the world did they screw up the times, considering it's timed and dated?
Even if it was lost "in hurried writing", that just goes to show even more that they need to correct their mistakes, as they obviously didn't care enough to give a full and truthful accounting of the situation. No excuse at all. -------------
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 2:56am
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 11:21am
Having been in the situation before, I would hedge my bets that the PIO told them one thing, and the police report had something different, and the statement probably had something different and the tape time had another. In those situations, you go with what the PIO says. He is the one paid to have the information correct. Also, I don't know about Texas, but here I have a very professional working relationship with a few OCSO, SCSO and UCFPD officers/deputies. (For some reason, maybe you can explain, Orange County calls their standard street patrol person an officer, and Seminole Count calls theirs a deputy. Makes no sense to me) due to my job of covering breaking news. I don't get a sense from them that they 1) hate the media, or 2) won't talk to me, because they do. Yes, I call the PIO for the press release and to get the general info, and mostly to fact-check stats, but I can also call up the normal officers/depuities and get quotes from them too. I go back to my original question. How does the length of the stop truely effect the supposed "bias" in this story? Also, I agree they should correct their mistakes. They really should do a write-through and add in the reason he was pulled over. And, if it was left out on purpose, then the reporter in question should be repremanded, no doubt about it. See, I have the ability to point out the mistakes of the orginization that I associate with. I guess that is a skill not everyone has. I guess the only way I can end this is OMG EVIL BIG BAD MEDIA OOOGA BOOGA. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 7:41pm
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Clearly he is not racist. Apparently, he http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/03/29/zach-thomas-wife-also-had-incident-with-officer-in-ryan-moats-i/#cont - treats everyone like crap, no matter skin color. And as the blog says:
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:05pm
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This is yet another example of President Obama failing.
------------- Imagine there’s a picture of your favourite thing here. |
Posted By: IMPULS3.
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:30pm
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Whale: If Moats was just a joe shmoe, would this even make the news? |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:32pm
No, but if he was Joe the Plumber it would. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:41pm
Probably. |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:45pm
With no real byline buried somewhere on the back page with a 3 or 4 sentence paragraph at best. Hardly worth notice. -------------
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Posted By: IMPULS3.
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:47pm
If even that lucky.
Whale: Are you pursuing a career in journalism to make money. Or just as a hobby?
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 8:47pm
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 11:15pm
I don't think Linus has to worry about anyone going down on him. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 11:58pm
Your mom said differently. Oh noez, a 'ur mom' joke!!!!! -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 11:59pm
I laughed aloud. Not everyday you get a good quality "your mom" joke on the forum. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 12:07am
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Did whale just compliment something I did? -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 12:25am
I'm not your mortal enemy or anything. I just think you are off-base sometimes. |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 12:31am
Ok... where's whale and what have you done with him? -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 12:33am
Working in an industry that requires you stay neutral and moderate really changes your view on a lot of things. |
Posted By: Enmity
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 6:04am
| Do I think the cop should have been fired? Not at all, do I think he should have been suspended, not at all, or maybe for a very short period of time, but he should have been chewed out by his chief at least. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 3:21pm
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http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=6732887 - Officer Powell apologizes for his "poor judgmental and insensitivity. " Now, Linus, after the Chief of Police, the third party officer involved, the nurses from the hospital and now even the officer HIMSELF has said that his actions were inappropriate, will/can you finally suck it up and actually admit that the officer was in the wrong? |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 3:43pm
I won't. He was not in the wrong. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 4:51pm
I am fairly certain that Whale and Linus getting along on the forum is definitely a sign of the impending apocalypse.
Jmac is right. The officer did his job. If it had been a normal person (as opposed to a celebrity) this would not be an issue or newsworthy. If it had been a normal person, and he had decided to give them the benefit of the doubt, his capability of performing his duties would be in question. It is very similar to what I saw in the military regarding DUIs on base. If you caught a junior enlisted person doing it then you had better ensure that every step was followed perfectly so they could be prosecuted to the full extent of the UCMJ; if it was a senior officer though, you'd best let them be on their way and pretend it never happened. ------------- 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 8:36pm
Very few things I can speak with certainty with in this forum. One of those things, however, is that you are wrong in this regard. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 8:58pm
LIES. This would not be anywhere near as big a deal if it was anyone else. Also, the officer's apology and him saying he was wrong was only done to save his career and not be skewed by the quick damage control Dallas Police Chief. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 9:52pm
'Dis da' truf. Seriously though -- there's a procedure for traffic stops, which the player and his wife clearly did not follow. Sometimes life is about making good decisions, and while the cop probably shouldn't have pulled his gun on them, he's also not psychic. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 10:31pm
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Whale, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that either the officers lawyer, union rep, or chief told him to apologize or there would be repercussions.
I have never denied that there were other avenues that the officer could have gone down, but Moates pushed him down the one he went. -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 01 April 2009 at 2:23pm
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4033626 - Moats resigns after incident. Says he would still like to talk to the Moats family personally and apologize. Guess he still didn't do anything wrong. |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 01 April 2009 at 2:35pm
i still feel he did nothing wrong. ------------- 
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 01 April 2009 at 2:36pm
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My level of respect for the officer just went way up, when I read he resigned...
That was the honorable thing to do.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 01 April 2009 at 4:54pm
Because he didn't. ------------- Que pasa?
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