Finally!
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=181614
Printed Date: 23 January 2026 at 3:59pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Finally!
Posted By: choopie911
Subject: Finally!
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 3:31pm
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http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05/07/obama-abstinence-budget/ - Smart Move
I'm happy to see this for sure, a step in the right direction IMO. |
Replies:
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 3:37pm
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Nice. Abstinence-only education has failed horribly, IMO. We need to teach teens to be safe and responsible rather than trying to tell them not to have sex because it's bad.
-------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 4:37pm
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"All the studies show that abstinence does not work." This is the most moronic thing I've ever read. Abstinence EDUCATION might not work, but abstinence itself I'm pretty sure is foolproof. ------------- ? |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 4:45pm
I'm sure it was just lazy wording, and abstinence education is what they were discussing. Good eye though. |
Reb Cpl wrote:Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 4:53pm
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Even then, it is abstinence only education that is the problem. They problematic word here is ONLY, not abstinence. A combined safe-sex and abstinence curriculum is your best bet. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 4:55pm
Indeed, which is why the abstinence portion of the education needs a revamping, not an elimination. ------------- ? |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 4:58pm
| I don't think anyone thinks that abstinence isn't an option at all, but its sort of the factory default setting, people need to be educated about what happens when/ if they choose to do their own thing (or someone elses) |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:06pm
The two can, and should, be properly taught together. It is more that the "factory setting." If you explain it as such, you are doing it wrong. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:07pm
| Well all my life it has seemed like common sense to me that if you dont want to have sex, you dont. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:11pm
The key words here have been accentuated for effect. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:13pm
| I know, I understand your point, just elaborating on why I feel that way. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:17pm
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I'm no social scientist, but I suspect that the main divide, demographic wise, that causes a need for a combined abstinence and safe-sex curriculum is gender based. Females, no pun intended, carry a heavier load of burden when it comes to the outcome of unsafe sex, and need to be aware of the percentages of risk of everything. And the percentages, while minute, still exist. |
Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:17pm
In all fairness agentwhale, I don't think anyone needs to be taught that they don't have to do something they don't want to do, at least as far as your friends (in this case a bit more, but the point remains valid) are concerned. We don't need to teach people that society is ok with abstinence. We need to have a society that is ok with abstinence. Given that, the rest will follow. I'm not suggesting of course that no teacher dares speak of abstinence in a sex-ed class. But really, it doesn't deserve much mention in that setting: the time should be spent dealing with what to do if you choose to be sexually active. ------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45 
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:19pm
I think you would be very surprised. |
Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:24pm
I'm going to go ahead and say that the latter part of my sentence - i.e., the part you didn't quote - is pretty important to it's meaning. Also, telling people that they can be abstinent and it's fine is worth nothing if as soon as they leave the classroom their society is putting the pressure back on them. Society being made up of people, and us being (presumably  ) people, that just means not instantiating that pressure ourselves, and trying to stop others when they do so.------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:30pm
Very true. Sorry I miss-read the second half there. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:35pm
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No means maybe? ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 5:58pm
Just remember, if you yell "Surprise!" first.......its all good. ------------- ? |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 7:34pm
| What if you don't speak the same language as them? Or they can't talk yet? |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 7:37pm
"Surprise orgy" works better than you'd think. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: proteus316
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 1:37am
| So parents shouldn't be responsible to teach children about sex? Blaming the schools? |
Posted By: Ilford Rule
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 2:58am
S'all good mang. Any thread that involves the sentence " 'surprise orgy' works better than you think " can't have anything too seriously problematic going on.
------------- CPro (w/ polished internals) 14" Bigshot BT SBS Various Rails NcSTAR D4B Macro AA 68/45
CCI Phantom 45 Grips |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 3:07am
Unless you're Christian, in which case that's not the case at all. ------------- 
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 3:08am
 |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 10:44am
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And yet.....everything about religion is a sham?
------------- ? |
Posted By: Invincible
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 11:01am
------------- OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMN OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 12:57pm
I refuse to pretend I know ANYTHING about religion; I've just enjoyed that little incongruity ever since I realized it. That comment is meant to be an attempt at humor. -------------
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Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 3:04pm
Just for this thread, here is a quick banner I made for the occasion. Feel free to spread if one so chooses. Pls use the original link if reposting elsewhere.
 ------------- 
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 3:14pm
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My wife and I were talking about this last night that's kinda weird. Even though were both christian we decided to teach our kids to be abstinence till a certain age around 20, then they will be mature enough to understand whether or not they want to wait till marriage or not. I believe children in and around high school have to much pressure from media and hormones to make mature decisions about sex. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 3:59pm
That's not a good plan... |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 4:44pm
for real. So you know, at 18 they will be legally be able to do whatever they want. Before 18, they will still do it. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 4:49pm
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Yeah, if I were a parent I would rather have my kids be safe than ignorant. I know they'll do it when they feel they are ready/ want to, and I would way rather have them know what they are doing so that they can be safe/ smart about it.
I just cant help but re-repost this: 
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 7:28pm
I never said i wanted my kids to be ignorant, I will teach them what safe sex is, the consequences, the christian morals around sex, but I will continue to request them and teach them that waiting until an older age is always a good plan, and can never back fire. I do not believe a 16 year old boy jacked up on porn, hormones and alcohol can know when the time is right. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 7:40pm
| Are you actually serious FROG MAN? You think a 16 year old can't make an educated, proper choice about sex? I know I sure did, and I was 16. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 8:04pm
i was 16 as well, and no i don't think they can. When I had sex at 16, thoughts of being cool, and being horny pretty much swarmed my head constantly. I also had two friends that had kids when there were 16/17, both of which used protection, (one the girl was on BC, and the other he used a condom). Maybe you were very mature 16 year old, but there is nothing that can be bad or wrong with waiting till your older. The fact of it is, no matter what, there is always a chance you can get pregnant and at 16, you are not ready to have a child. But then again, I don't believe in abortion so that might change the argument entirely. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 8:06pm
| I know I didnt have any trouble knowing the time was right, and I was only 12. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 8:20pm
(I think your joking but if not) obviously not, do you seriously think you could have raised a child? ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 8:25pm
Hornyness had nothing to do with my decision that I was ready really. I mean we would already do everything else, so its not like it was a problem, I just felt I was ready for the next step, and we discussed it, etc. I know most people dont really plan their first time, but it doesn't mean it's a mistake. As long as you are safe and healthy about it I dont see what is wrong with sex. You need to know the risks, and think about the potential consequences. I know even now if I knocked the gf up we wouldn't even think of keeping it, and I am ok with that. Yeah, there isn't anything wrong with waiting until you are 18, 20, 24, whatever, but telling someone to wait, and expecting it to work is silly, and can just make the situation more uncomfortable/ awkward than it needs to be. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 8:58pm
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well, this is an argument about abortion now. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 9:00pm
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Not really, that was my individual choice. If someone else is opposed to abortion obviously they wouldn't view that as an option, and would weigh that in their decision accordingly (or so I would hope)
It is THEIR choice if they are ready, and only they can know, not their parents, teachers, etc. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 9:58pm
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ya children in high school should be expected to be mature enough to decide whether there ok with abortion. Those moral questions still not agreed upon by philosophers should be put on children. I don't care if your for abortion or against, 16 year olds are not mature enough to decide that for themselves yet. I am surprised your arguing that children are so smart and mature, I would think you would be one of the first people to agree that lots adults arnt mature enough to have sex and reproduce. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 10:06pm
Not agreeing is different than not knowing. I know that I am fine with abortion. It is the mother's choice. Doesn't mean you or anyone else is going to agree. ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 10:12pm
Dont see how your personal opinion on abortion matters whether children should be taught to wait till there older to have sex. Children are not mature enough to understand morally and socially what abortion means to create there own personal opinion. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 10:35pm
This is exactly why I'm against abstinence only education. If they are taught that the only option is to NOT have sex, but then want to have sex (it's a pretty normal urge) that can be a bad situation. If the risks are realized and preventative action is taken (the pill and a condom if possible.) What are they doing differently than you would be doing 2 years later? I know that teenagers are retarded, but sex doesn't have to be rocket science. Just be safe about it. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 10:39pm
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but I was saying i was going to teach my kids that abstinence is the best birth control, but also teach them about the pill and condom etc... if they do have sex. You seem to have thought this was a terrible idea. Also, playing with life is far beyond rocket science and shouldn't be taken lightly. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 11:14pm
| Please, I happen to know that you cannot impregnate a woman if you cross your fingers at the last second. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 11:21pm
my personal opinion does not matter. My point was that just because "philosophers" don't agree on what is right doesn't mean a 16 year old won't know what he/she believes. How is a 16 year old not mature enough to understands abortion enough to create an opinion? ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 12:32am
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I remember the first time I had sex. It was on a beach. There was these 9 smokin' hot girls that just walked up to me... ------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 12:36am
There was only 7 for me  ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: TheDude
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:13am
I'm pretty sure the bible would disagree with you. ------------- "According to Sue Johanson, theres nothing that can increase your manhood, trust me I've already looked into it for myself." -Zata <keep the sigs friendly, please> |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:22am
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Yes, because teen pregnancies can only be blamed on the education, and not the horny teens or the parents who refuse to teach their kids, either because they are lazy or because they are ignorant themselves.
I guess it's too much to teach self-responsibility. Yup, education is the only problem! ------------- 
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Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:51am
mistakes, and bad decisions happen all the time, and since we live in free countries and cant physically put condoms on horny teens, education is the best thing we got. Most adults already refuse to teach there kids about sex, education in the school system is the only thing we (the public) can control. Saying its up to the parents and children them selves to fix the problem of teen pregnancy is being ignorant to a problem that education system can help to fix. Stop being a hypocrite. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:49am
I never said I don't think the parents should talk to their kids. They absolutely should. But having an educational curriculum, just in case is a good backup. |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 6:01am
nice...
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 7:40am
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So, you're going to failstamp abstinence because of a single incident in the entire history of mankind which many of you are convinced never happened anyway? Bravo with the logic on that one. ------------- ? |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 8:29am
| pretty sure he meant that as a joke.... |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 11:56am
We can't teach self-responsibility and can't punish people for being lazy, so we have to make a scape-goat? It's solely educations fault that lazy people are dumb? It IS up to the parents and the kids! It really IS that simple. If you're too stupid to realize "Hey, unprotected sex, or even protected sex, might lead to a baby or diseases", then you really have no place to be sticking it in other people. An IQ test should be required before sex is allowed, honestly. I'm not saying education is without it's faults, but lets point out the true problem. People. Not words. -------------
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 12:36pm
Actually I think the problem is the lack of knowledge on the subject. I see two ways to fix that. You either teach them safe sex practices or you let them find out as they gain experience. I much prefer the former. That being sorted it is definitely parents' responsibility to raise children, including much more than just sex ed(morality, responsibility and so on). Of course there are parents out there who neglect those very important duties and so far we've been discussing probably the most popular alternative to learning at home. ------------- 
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 12:46pm
I didnt have to because I was smart about it. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:39pm
oh god the ignorance and irony in your posts makes me numb. You say our scape goat is the educations system, and your scape goat is the parents. As dumb as it sounds some kids do not understand that when they have sex there is a chance to get pregnant or diseases, many kids are lead to believe that condoms and pills are 100% effective, some kids even believe pulling out, or douching after sex is 100% effective. Why do you they believe this? Kids talking to kids, stupid parents and media. The education system can be used to correct these misbeliefs. No one is blaming the education system for teen pregancies, we just want the education system to be better to stop a portion of them. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:45pm
Care to explain, because as long as your dick is in here, there is always a chance for her to get pregnant. So unless you talked to her, and her PARENTS, (because at that age its her parents choice), that shes ok with an abortion, you weren't smart about it. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:48pm
| She was postmenopause. |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:49pm
lol, you win ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 2:35pm
"Mrs. Robinson, are you trying to seduce me?" Frogman, I think the debate about your stance started up because in your first post it made it sound like you weren't going to educate your children on safe sex at all until they were 20 (by which point, they're no longer under your control by 2 years legally, and a lot longer mentally). After reading a later post it seems that you will educate them on sex and tell them that abstinence is the best choice, but if they succumb to those perfectly normal human needs, that the pill or condoms will be necessary to prevent pregnancy. I think that's all anyone here wants. It's not enough to teach abstinence only. It's like giving someone a survival manual that says "never get into a survival situation" and leaving it at that. Planning for eventualities is what has kept the human race going for millenniums and throwing that out the window for the sake of some ambiguous morality that wasn't even part of the original christian sect ethos is asinine. Yet this nation's leaders have backed it in an attempt to garner support from a fringe element of society in election years. Seems pretty dumb to me to not put the knowledge of how to protect your children in their hands for the sake of the fringe vote. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:12pm
| Wow, now I want to publish the abstinence only wilderness survival guide..... |