Another Computer Question
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
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Printed Date: 11 September 2026 at 5:18pm
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Topic: Another Computer Question
Posted By: Peter Parker
Subject: Another Computer Question
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 10:56pm
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So I am officially fed up with my Dell. I am pretty sure that the power supply is fried, and either the video card or the motherboard as well, or both. Not to mention the neverending and resource-hogging OEM bloatware that I can't turn off.
So I need a new box. Something with Vista, Office (or Office lite) and very little else. Most importantly, no Norton, no custom branded "help" centers, etc.
Are there actual brands that sell such things? With warranties worth having? Or am I better off buying something from the computer store and going with the component warranties?
Spec suggestions also appreciated. I am NOT - NOT - looking for an uber-gaming machine. This machine will do occasional video editing, but not a lot and nothing fancy. Most it is for general family use. Some gaming, but nothing too intensive. Email, internet, word processing, Skype, etc. I don't want this machine to be obsolete in a year, though, so it can't be too far behind.
So - please help. Where to get a bloatware-free box?
No, I will not buy a Mac. No, I will not use Linux.
Thanks.
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Replies:
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 11:00pm
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I ordered a few machines in the last six months from Dell, specifically with no crap trialware, and no antivirus package.
EDIT: I didn't see that you were looking for stats. Of course, all of this depends on how much you want to spend. If you will do a lot of video work, you may want the extra speed of the best processors. The Intel i7 chips are the newest and best. Although, you will be able to run plenty of high end video software with more pedestrian 2 or 4 core processors. RAM is cheap, so get a lot. Although, if you have 4GB or more, you will need Vista 64 to see all that RAM, so FYI. |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 11:34pm
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Build one. I'm sure many people on here would be willing to help you chose components. |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 11:49pm
The later, by far. Honestly, as counterproductive as it may seem, building your own is by far the cheapest and the easiest and the least hassle. Nowadays, virtually all parts in a computer will have warranties greater then 5 years without you paying extra and their returns departments are way easier to work with then any help center. I've busted more parts then I can count, many due to tinkering on my part, and haven't had a problem yet RMAing anything. As mentioned above, with a given budget, many on this forum could help you pick out the parts. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Peter Parker wrote:Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 11:57pm
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Building your own > buying online > buying in a store.
What's the amount you're looking to spend? EDIT: Oops ------------- 
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Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 11:59pm
fixed. ------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:02am
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Good catch. -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:04am
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It should be noted that Newegg right now is having a lot of really good sales. Just browsing around I was able to pick out a very nice computer for just under $900. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:04am
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thanks. i was like wth? the last two were the same. ------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:06am
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As much fun as it would be to build my own, I don't have the time to do so. There are some local shops that will assemble a custom machine for a fee, however, and that is my preferred route. My real problem with this approach is that I will be paying full price for the OS and Office. That quickly eats up all the savings.
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:11am
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You can always get an OEM OS, which for Vista is 99$. Or you can go XP and get Windows 7 RC.
I'm sure you could find a friend (or forumer) who can build a PC for you w/o extra cost. WHat size case do you have? Do you want single/dual/tri/ or quad core processor? How much ram? -------------
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Posted By: Glassjaw
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:12am
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It takes no more than a few hours, at most, to build a computer. As far as the OS goes, I'd suggest torrenting the preferred operating system, which can be done very easily. If you are interested, you could also install the Windows 7 RC. It includes a key that is valid for 1 year, and is getting good reviews. ------------- |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:14am
Good point I'm betting you've heard enough about Open Office, and you probably don't already have a copy of Vista on your current PC. Buying OEM vista is fairly cheap, but if you need to reformat you might be in trouble. I don't suppose you can scrounge copies from the IT guys at your office? Most large institutions have site licenses  ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: WGP guy2
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:36am
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Don't have the time? My first build took my about 6 hours from UPS man giving me boxes to being on the desktop. Now it would probably take even less. I'm building a computer for my brother. My desktop is an excellent gaming rig, I've yet to find anything that it couldn't handle well. The computer I'm building for my brother has the same specs as mine, with a little less powerful GPU, and is about $600 including Vista. |
Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:46am
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......and now i feel dumb for getting my laptop. ------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 1:32am
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What's your budget? If you you want to order the parts and have some guy at a local store assemble it for you then tell me how much you want to spend on parts and I'll see what I can find for you.
------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 7:08am
Why? Quite frankly, both are better options.
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 2:51pm
Unless the majority of the applications you use are on Windows only... which is the case for a lot of people. -------------
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Posted By: chun12
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 3:08pm
| But why do you use windows? I used to use a pc/windows all the time, and the only reason I used it is for word. But mac is so much better...and most programs have mac varients...some even require way less steps or setup procedures for mac. Mac just works with most things. Now if you like word processing...mac has their own varient called pages...and it is amazing (minus the crappy spell check) but it will let you write anything without those annoying sqiggly lines appearing under ppls names. And if that doesnt float your boat...you can put either a) windows on a mac either as duel boot or as main OS or b) put office on the mac. Its that simple. I love mac...it just does what i tell it to do...and is great for pictures and graphic oreinted materials such as pwr pnt or other items (great for college presentations). But if I had to go with a windows oreinted machine...HP, IBM are my choice...I refuese to buy dell or gateway unless they are the high end gaming comp. they are better (and dont have to be used for gaming specfically) or alien ware. Just my two cents. |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 3:11pm
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This is kind of an aside, since it seems you want a better machine regardless, but: If you wanted to get rid of OEM bloatware, Norton, etc, why not just reformat and install a fresh copy of Windows? That way, you control what is installed on your PC rather than a vendor. Just make sure you have the necessary drivers on a USB drive or CD before you reformat. Like I said, it seems you want to upgrade regardless of being able to fix your current machine, but if you're faced with a similar problem in the future, this is what I would do. -------------  irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 3:15pm
| I'm pretty sure that if Canadian sites will let you custom build a computer, then build it for you, with an OS or not, there should be some US ones that do it? |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:01pm
Generally, that's a matter of opinion. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:29pm
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I'm not dumping the Dell - but given the hardware problems, I need a functional machine while I dink around with that one.
Someone told me that with Vista, all programs must be installed on the C drive, and the secondary HDD is data only. Any truth to that? Or could I run Office from my old HD, installed in the new computer as the D drive? ------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:35pm
Because it's the norm? Everyone knows how to use it. Every major company uses it. Because it's universally compatible? Most peripherals work with Windows. Same cannot be said for MacOS. Because 99% of programs work with it? Most programs are made to run on windows, and then ported. -------------
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:48pm
No truth to it. I run almost all my programs off my external. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:51pm
QFT. Infact, most computer savvy people will have a boot drive, which is <80gb, and then secondary program drives. This way, if your OS gets corrupted, or you need to install a new one, you won't lose all your data. -------------
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Posted By: gh0st
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:52pm
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im running ubuntu on my xps laptop flawlessly
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Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 5:58pm
That was kind of my plan. Get a minimal drive on the new computer, and use the big drive from the old computer as the program/data drive. Will save me from buying/reinstalling a bunch of stuff.
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 6:17pm
And I highly recommend doing just that. The computer I'm on now is setup in a similar fashion only it has XP on it. I had it partitioned so one partition had XP, one was for all my programs, and then I got a 500 gb drive that I split into 2 partitions: 1 for random data, and the last was originally for a backup OS (Kubuntu linux) which I later repurposed for all my school work. I had the linux installation on there in case XP got corrupted and I didn't have time to fix it but needed my files quickly. I never needed it though and eventually decided to just get rid of it. I also got a laptop so I usually worked on projects there and copied backups to the desktop instead. Bottom line though, partition your drives properly. Keep the OS separate from your data because you never know when you'll need to reformat and reinstall. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 7:09pm
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If you want something cheap to use while you fix the other one, just get an Asus EEE. I'm looking to get one eventually to do field reporting on. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 5:18pm
------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 9:23am
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All good advice. Will report back. ------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 10:52am
As far as computer recommendations the dell studio line isn't to shabby, small form factor and low power consumption. -------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 11:14am
I think you forgot to read some of the posts you quoted. I run 90% of my programs off my external. It is not a problem on XP or Vista, or Windows 7. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: Rambino
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 11:17am
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I think mbro's point may be that if the main drive suddenly becomes the secondary/D: drive, some of the programs already installed may be confused by the re-lettering. ------------- [IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/aag8s8.jpg"> |
Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 11:21am
The question isn't whether or not you can run programs from a drive other than your boot drive (obviously you can do that just fine). It's whether or not you can run programs from a previous Windows install on a separate disk from a new Windows install on a new disk. I think it would cause problems since they're not in the right registry, etc. ------------- irc.esper.net #paintball |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 3:54pm
Nonsense. With my main computer, when I decided to reinstall Windows and move my data and programs to my array, I simply cloned the entire drive to my array, reformatted and partitioned my OS drive and reinstalled Windows. After that, you can just delete whatever bits of Windows you like from the secondary drive and leave your programs and data intact. In some cases, you may have some problems with shortcuts, and any auto booting programs, and some programs may not work right, but in those cases all you need to do is install the program again over the old install. The one problem you will likely have with this is dealing with programs that won't let you install them on any drive other then the drive your Windows installation is on. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 4:04pm
Ah -- apparently I'm the one with comprehension problems then. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 7:22pm
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Darur pretty much nailed it. In most cases, you can just run the program after you do the disk swap and it will add the appropriate registry keys again. Some programs are not as flexible though and will require a reinstall (especially if there is some kind of kernel integration) when you change over. Doesn't really hurt to try though.
------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 4:02pm
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Ok - update.
After being annoyed at the PITA associated with buying a new computer, even a "basic" one, I put more effort into fixing the current machine right away. So, a zillion diagnostics later, I have repaired a bunch of registries, installed a new video card, and added some RAM. Voila - machine appears fine. What I thought was a power supply problem seems now most likely to have been the bum video card that was making the PSU crazy. The PSU seems to be acting normally now.
Still not perfect - I have not ruled out some other minor issues, but overall the machine is back to functional state.
So thanks for all the help and suggestions - the discussion pointed me back to where I needed to be. This also raises another couple of questions:
- My 500gb HD is approaching fullish, so I am thinking of adding another. I could put a big storage drive in behind it, or I could get a new fast drive as the new primary, probably in conjunction with an OS upgrade. Can I install Vista upgrade (or 7) on a different drive from where XP is now? I don't have the original install disks. That way, I could get a completely fresh start with a fresh OS and fresh faster drive. Or maybe just install Vista/7 on the current drive and put in a tb drive as secondary. Thoughts?
- The HD is regular SATA, not SATA II. Are there real performance differences? If I buy another SATA I drive, will it be obsolete by the time it's time for another mobo?
- The mobo is pretty decent, assuming I can convince myself it has no errors. I on purpose bought the fanciest mobo available at the time (2ish years ago). The CPU is a Core 2 Duo 1.86 ghz. Is it worth upgrading the CPU at some point, or just wait and get new mobo/CPU together? I haven't looked too closely at compatibility, but I am pretty sure any Core 2 Duo will fit. Not so sure about the quad-core chips. Thoughts?
- Norton is a massive resource hog, and even apart from that I hate it with a passion. I had it mostly disabled to get the upgrading done, but now it runs smoothly. I am still tempted to uninstall it and just go with Avira or something. Can Norton actually be fully ininstalled, or is it deeply integrated? Is that something to think about when getting a new OS? On the other hand, when I upgrade the OS I will also add more RAM, so it may be less of a problem. Any thoughts on life post-Norton? Can it be done?
Thanks again.
Oh, and:
Alas, the time when I would have happily jumped on that has long since come and gone.
:)
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 4:51pm
Thats all personal preference. A faster hard drive will mean much better seek times, and you will see boot time increase a lot. It all depends on if speed or storage space is more important to you at the moment. If you are noise freak though, 10k rpm drive can be loud, so be mindful of that. If you really want a new faster drive though, just for the OS, I'd look at a flash drive which have the lowest seek times. Throughput it also a lot better now then it used to be.
Theoretically, SATA II offers twice the throughput as SATA, but I haven't seen any stunning differences. There is only a benefit if both mobo and hard drive are SATA II (which shouldn't be uncommon), and even then the performance gain isn't much.
Thats a little tricky. I'm not very familier with older Intel boards, but I know there is sometimes compatibility issues between the different core lines. Check to see what types its compatible with. Sometimes theres a new BIOS released to support newer processors, but I think you'd chicken out
Depending on what route you go with the hard drives, the issue may solve itself. If you put the OS on a new drive, effectively Norton is uninstalled, because it is that deeply rooted in the registry. You SHOULD uninstall it and go with something else. To my knowledge, Kaspersky is still the best for the money. Avast! is probably the best of the free AVs.
Panzy ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 05 June 2009 at 4:28am
I have a 74GB WD Raptor (10,000 rpm, 8MB cache) in this computer which I partitioned into two logical drives, one for the OS and one for programs. The drive is louder than my WD Caviar but not obnoxiously loud unless you're trying to sleep next to it while it's in use. Boot time for XP Pro on the raptor is close to that of my friend who had two 7200 rpm drives in RAID 0. Theoretically, that's twice as fast as a single 7200 rpm drive and the real numbers are usually pretty close to that. Load times for games and other applications are also fairly quick due to the faster drive. A SSD disk will perform much better than either of those two setups though. The downsides to SSD are cost and write speeds (they are not actually bad, just not as good as read speeds). There's a lot of stuff floating around saying that they actually wear out sooner but they should last at least as long as a standard mechanical drive. Benefits would be that they're freaking fast for read operations, there are no moving parts to cause vibrations/noise, and fragmentation or location of data on disk doesn't have much effect on performance.
Also, I believe SATA 3 is almost ready to go but I dont think they'll be changing the connectors. So if you get all SATA I/II stuff now, it should still be compatible when SATA 3 is out, you just won't get the full speed. For general use, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between any of them to be honest. On paper, there are big differences but I don't think you'd see them unless you really strained your system. However, if you go with a SSD, then SATA 3 might be worthwhile since the better SSD's are approaching the limit of SATA II. Bottom line though, I wouldn't worry about it, just get what you want.
All of the Core2 line is LGA775 so the chips will all physically be compatible. The problem lies in the BIOS for the boards. You need to refer to the documentation for your motherboard to determine what it can support. For example, your Core2 duo will be the same socket type as a Core2 Quad but if you bought the quad and dropped it in, there's no guarantee that the system will boot. And there are differences between the quad-core chips too so it may support the first generation of quads like the Q6600 but not the newer Penryn ones. The motherboard specs should tell you what is supported. As Darur mentioned though, there might be a newer version of the BIOS that will support newer chips so you might be able to upgrade the CPU after flashing the BIOS. If that's necessary, make sure you flash the BIOS before swapping processors.
Agreed. I think the latest version of Norton is supposed to be much better than the older versions but I would still ditch it for something else. Kaspersky is very good and comes highly recommended by one of my professors who teaches network security courses and works for the NSA. I've been using AVG free for years now and haven't had any issues with it at all, though a recent issue of MaximumPC did a comparison between different AV apps and determined that it wasn't the best on system resources. It does do a good job keeping your system clean though and I haven't noticed it impeding system performance for me unless it's doing a scan. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 19 June 2009 at 4:01pm
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Ok, I'm back again.
Turns out I still have a hardware issue. I think/hope it's the power supply, and not the mobo, so the plan is to replace the power supply.
Now, my machine has a 750W power unit, and those are expensive. The question is - is there a way to determine what my real needs are? Some type of utility that will measure my computer's real power needs?
The new video card uses less energy than the old one, but I might put another HD in...
If I could get away with a 400W unit that would be great. The PITA of getting the units switched is bad enough, without having to spend a bundle.
Any thoughts in general on swapping power units?
Thanks again.
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 19 June 2009 at 6:07pm
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Who makes your power supply? 750 watts sounds like overkill for that system from what I know about it. 400-500 watts should be sufficient though. What are the full system specs of the Dell (only some things were mentioned earlier)? Here are some suggestions though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703017 - PCP&C Silencer 420w - $49.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016 - OCZ ModXStream Pro 500w - $44.99 (after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341017 - OCZ ModXStream Pro 600w - $59.99 (after rebate) OCZ power supplies are made by PCP&C now which is known to be a very good company so keep that in mind. Also, the OCZ ones are modular so you only need to use the cables that are necessary and the rest stay in a box somewhere. I got an Ultra X2 modular a few years ago and I love not having to figure out where to shove the big ball of extra wiring that most power supplies have. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 19 June 2009 at 8:09pm
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Before you go out and buy a new PSU, what exactly is it doing? If the fixes on the software side seemed to have helped, that makes me doubt its your PSU. Also, I second mod98 on the PSU recommendations, all good ones. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 19 June 2009 at 9:16pm
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Machine sometimes won't start. Power makes it into the PSU but not out. No fans, no HD, no action at all, but select LEDs come on - including the blinking amber LED in the power button, which is Dell-speak for "problem with the PSU, unless it is actually the mobo that is bad and pretending that it's the PSU's fault."
The blinking amber is the error code for "PSU outside of parameters," and the symptoms are (I think) consistent with a bad PSU. This behavior went away (I thought) when I got the new video card, which also makes a little sense, as the new video card uses a lot less energy than the old one.
So I think it's down to the PSU or the mobo at this point.
I'll have to check PSU make and general system stats. ------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 19 June 2009 at 11:10pm
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It's possible that the motherboard is on its way out but not likely if it's only a few years old. Usually a power supply will last a few years depending on build quality and usage so it's probably more likely that the PSU is the problem, as you suspect. They sell things that will let you test the power supply to see if it is working properly but they cost about $20 which is half the cost of a new unit. I have one myself but I haven't used it on a dying PSU so I can't even really be sure that it would help you to be honest. What you described is definitely a hardware issue and it sounds most likely to be the PSU but there is a chance that the motherboard is screwy. If I'm not mistaken, there are voltage regulation components on the motherboard that are very important and if they got damaged somehow, that could cause symptoms similar to that of a dying PSU. It's also possible that the PSU malfunctioned and damaged itself and the motherboard. Hehe, might as well try swapping PSU's and see if that fixes it. Unfortunately, hardware issues are easiest to isolate by swapping parts which will cost you money if you don't have spares lying around. I work on enough systems that I almost always have something to swap for testing but it doesn't seem like you're in the same situation. If you can, see if a friend has some extra parts you can borrow so you only have to buy things that will definitely fix the problem. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 5:31am
| -oops- |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 5:31am
| http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp - power supply calculator |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 2:05pm
Heh, not sure how accurate that thing is but my system draws 416w according to that. I'm using a 550w power supply so even if it undershot by a good amount I should be ok. As it says above the calculator stuff though, amperage on the 12v line is most important and I paid close attention to that when buying. This is something that most people overlook and can lead to problems. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 7:56pm
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Mod98 nailed it all, the easiest way by far to check this is with another PSU or motherboard. From what you've said, I am not convinced that your PSU is being overdrawn. I suspect either your mobo is bad, or your PSU itself was damaged in some way or has begun failing. My guess is its the latter. Another easy check for an overdrawn PSU is to remove anything excess in your computer. This means any extra hard drives, sound cards, expansion cards, video card (assuming you have video on your motherboard), etc. That will drop your power draw a lot. Next you would run something like http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/385/ - orthos which will stress your CPU and increase power draw a lot. If you have no problems, you'd keep adding parts and stressing your system until eventually the problem returns and that would confirm your PSU is simply being overtaxed. The other option for testing the PSU is with a multimeter. This won't necessarily tell you if your PSU is too small for your system, however you can use it to check that the output is staying within the manufactuer's bounds. This means that the voltage and amp read outs aren't wobbling or too high or low. Bad power output would be sympamatic of a damaged or failing PSU. There are guides for this online I'll try and dig up. Unfortunetly, the only way to test if its your motherboard however is with another PSU, however if the PSU passes both tests I mentioned above, you can pretty safely rule it out. Oooor, you could just order a PSU off of Newegg, swap it in, see if it fixes it, and if not, return it. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 9:49pm
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Darur - I also don't think my PSU is being overdrawn. I use less power now than before, and the PSU is pretty big. But I am digging the multimeter diagnostic. I will give that a go for fun, although I suspect I will be replacing anyway. I tried junky's tool, and according to that I am running below 400W, even counting some components I haven't added yet. That makes sense to me, as I don't see any components present or planned that are high-usage. The only exception would be if I add a second video card, but that is unlikely. Based on that confirmation of my prejudice, I will look at some 500ish PSUs, heeding the advice of cable removal options. The box is crowded enough as it is. Thanks again, guys. I will probably post again in a month asking for mobo replacement advice. :) ------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 3:20pm
Not a problem  ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 24 July 2009 at 11:50pm
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Well, I'm back. Don't say I didn't warn you. Here's the update: I ran into a major snag with the PSU. Turns out my motherboard is a WTX form factor. Typically used for servers, some high-end PCs also have them. Apparently my Dell is a high-end PC. That explains why I have a ginormous case, though. In any event, WTX mobos are so power-hungry - or at least the systems are after you fill up all the zillion expansion slots and bays - that WTX mobos require special PSU connectors. Instead of the 20/24-pin standard for ATX boards and most other boards, WTX boards require a 20-pin connector AND a 24-pin connector. And, as it turns out, PSUs with that configuration are very rare. Most WTX mobos are in servers, and servers often have external standalone PSUs. So it is hard to find a WTX PSU. I eventually found a PSU with a manufacturer description that claimed it could do WTX, but when it showed up it just had the normal ATX/EPS connectors. I am currently enjoying frequent calls to China to figure that out. Does anybody know anything about WTX PSU connectors? Can I just use an adapter? I found what purports to be an EPS/WTX adapter online, but there is no description and the picture doesn't make any sense. Anyway, this finally broke the dam, so I went and bought a new computer. Got a decent ASUS system (with FOUR CORES!!!!!), and currently getting all familiar with Vista (although since I get a free Windows 7 upgrade, I don't want to get too familiar with it). And since the old computer is sitting there with no PSU, the ganking has begun. First I took the TB drive that was about to go in the old computer and put it in the new computer. Then I started copying stuff from the main drive in the old computer to the new TB data drive in the new computer (eSATA is pretty cool). The new computer has all the memory slots filled, so I left the memory alone. So far so good. Here's the first question: Video cards. The new computer has an nVidia GT 220 in it. That's the OEM card (also has onboard video). But since the video card was the first thing to go in the old computer, I have a snazzy new GT 9800 (512mb) sitting in a dead box. And I can't figure out which is "better." Comparing specs is almost meaningless, and I can't seem to find a good side-by-side benchmark on the two. Anybody know how to make sure I am putting my best video card in my new fast computer? (Of course, I could put both cards in the ASUS, and then I could use FOUR MONITORS!!!!!!!) Second question: The ASUS came with its one HD partitioned. Since I have a separate physical drive for data, is there any reason to keep the partition? Any reason not to? Is there any good use for it? And if I remove it, can I do so without deleting data? Anyway - thanks again, guys. (And don't worry - I'm not giving up on the Dell. I just got demoted to tinker-machine instead of family computer) ------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 24 July 2009 at 11:58pm
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How is the asus HD partitioned? Is it a C: partition then a data partition of a different drive letter? Or is it a recovery partition only visible from disk tools?
If it's just a data partition you should be able to combine them with a decent partition manager program, whatever is popular at the moment for windows or a bootable version of gparted (open source partition manager). I think NTFS plays nice enough where data loss shouldn't be too much of an issue. Side note; about halfway through your book (yes I know it's not that big) should have a review on amazon for you next week sometime. -------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 12:13am
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Partition - actually, both. There is a small recovery partition, but other than that there is a C drive and a D drive, both visible through normal channels. The D drive is empty (conveniently labeled "data" by ASUS). I have the tools needed to collapse the partition, so long as it won't mess up the data on the main partition. Or there is some other reason to keep the partition. ------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 12:17am
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From what I'm reading, the 9800 GT looks to be your best bet. I can't find many specs on the GT 220, seems to still be very new or no one cares. You should be able to run both cards together if you really want to. Mbro is spot on on the hard drive bit. I'll look into your PSU issue for the other computer, I've never seen a desktop with that configuration. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 12:22am
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Thanks, guys. My instincts tell me the 9800 is the better board - mainly because it looks fancier. My main motivation is to collect all the best hardware in the same computer, while keeping enough in the other to keep it running.
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 1:09am
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the GT220 is basically the replacement for the 9500, and after a quick glance at the specs, the 9800 should be at least twice as powerful.
since your not even using the same operating system anymore - let alone using the same drivers from your old system, your recovery partition is useless now, no reason to keep it. |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 1:36am
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did some research, and your looking for a redundant eps12v power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104159 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104159 thats kinda expensive..... they have cheaper ones, unfortunately, they also have really bad customer ratings. |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 12:21pm
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Wait - "redundant eps12v"? I have an EPS12v supply, but it doesn't have the WTX connectors. Am I missing something?
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
Posted By: adrenalinejunky
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 4:49pm
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thats wierd,
"As a result, the boards in WTX format have another power adapter standard, which goes by the name of EPS12V. They have connections with more power and mass cores, as well as wider plugs in order to distribute the load better" http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xeon-cpus-intel-p4-extreme-platform,808-8.html - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xeon-cpus-intel-p4-extreme-platform,808-8.html |
Posted By: Peter Parker
Date Posted: 25 July 2009 at 5:33pm
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Junky, that right there is an awesome link. That actually almost cleared up all confusion in one fell swoop. The stuff I had been reading earlier led me to believe that EPS12v was the ATX standard, and WTX was something else.
Looking at the PSU I bought, I see that it is "ATX 12v", and doing a search for EPS12v PSUs I see some that might work for me. The plugs still don't look exactly the same, but it looks like I can combine a 12-pin and an 8-pin connector.
Huh. Would you look at that. Well, I'm going shopping again.
Thanks a bunch.
------------- "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |