Then they smashed a second into the moon...

 

 

That is a great example of how the government wastes your tax dollars. I guess asking the guys on mythbusters to take a crack at it was out of the question... Gotta fund Nasa, especially when businesses are closing daily in America...

 

Also, I don't think the ppl at mythbusters are rocket scientists... but I guess in FE's world, its all the same.

How is this even remotely a partisan issue? I'm sure there are Democrats that would have said the same thing. Generalizations aren't nice Whale.

 

 

 

My point being you guys always jump all over FE for generalizing, yet turn around and do the same thing.

 

It must be a boring day if I am defending FE.  wow.

 

A few conservatives make a statement and they're the representatives of their party?

 

And intelligent and reasonable doesn't always = financially sound.

 

I'm not saying I'm against it, I just don't understand turning this into a partisan political argument.

 

/thread

 

I wanted to post the WKUK Moon Bears video, but it's NSFT. Look it up, you'll lol.

 

I rarely hear "educated" people called elitists, I hear people who think their bachelor's affords them the ability to dictate the definate standard of right and wrong contradicted. Elitism is incredibly prevalent on both sides of the debate, be it based on education, or moral beliefs / the lack thereof. There are plenty of people even on this forum that feel as soon as the issue involves the word God it becomes null and void, because duh, only morons have imaginary friends. And there are those on here that feel that the Bible somehow nulls out anything that disagrees with it. It's all equal.

 

And stem-cells =/= intelligence. It's not a black and white issue, there are nay sayers on both sides of the fence. There are very educated people for and against it. Myself I'm neutral, I see no moral wrong in it, and don't know enough about it scientifically to make a judgement. But that doesn't mean that there aren't both pros and cons, it just means I'm big enough to admit I'm not the final verdict.

 

The "anti-intelligence" movement has people on both sides. There are plenty of liberals who make little to no sense, and support ridiculous ideas. But I'll rename your movement for clarification-it's called the "partisan politics" movement. It's defending or condemning a party instead of the issue, and that is the very epitome of anti-intelligent. It's saying "well that's counter-productive, it must be a conservative idea", or that's the media, so it must be liberal. This crap has got to stop at some point, it's pushed to the point of silliness.

 

I'm not singling out your post, and I'm not throwing out any of these accusations at you necessarily, it's just this whole trend is making me crazy. Its honestly making me want to not care about politics.

 

That's like saying I don't like a camaro so therefore I hate cars.

 

Creationism is a legitimate, even if far fetched in scientific, theory.

 

Oh and just an FYI, creationists can believe in evolution. Creationism simply states a Higher Power set things in motion, doesn't necessarily dictate what god or how it was done. So again, you can't generalize Creationists either, as that's a pretty broad blanket.

 

But then again, I don't want to take this thread into that debate :P.

No, creationism is NOT a scientific theory.  They have not tested their theories by scientific means.  They have not used the scientific method.  Their proof is the Bible and the Bible does not constitute a scientific document.

And no.  "Creationists" are those that think God created the world 6000 years ago.  That dinosaurs roamed with man.  That the Great Flood mixed up all the fossils in the geologic column to give an appearance of age.  One can not believe that we were put here in the advanced state we are in now, 6000 years ago and evolution (at least macroevolution) at the same time.

Where does this perspective come from that religion and science are rivals, or that one cannot be an intellectual and be a <religious affiliation here>?

Thats like saying a porcupine is competing with your blender.

Science is the study of the physical world around us.  Its testable, quantifiable, and based upon physical evidence.  Religion is philosophy, the study of the metaphysical world.  It cannot be proven or tested. The two have nothing to do with each other.  They only conflict when people try to explain ethics with science or the history of life with a book.  

I do agree to an extent with Whale, however.  As of late the Right seems to have sadly decided it needs to reject intellectualism, or at least only let that side of its body talk.

Water can be split into hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis, then compressed into liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen to be used to fuel space shuttles for return trips to Earth. It also allows us to take advantage of the moon's much smaller gravitational field and launch shuttles from the moon for much longer voyages, needing much less fuel to take-off. 

Then theres always the whole part where it would be nice to have water for the astronauts.

Conservatives have stopped ALL stem-cell research?

Somewhere, some engineer in NASA is feeling really dumb right now

 

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism

 

Yay for gross generalizations!

 

 

 

http://www.icr.org/article/gallup-poll-two-thirds-americans-believe-god-creat/ - http://www.icr.org/article/gallup-poll-two-thirds-americans-believe-god-creat/

 

The rest were indoctrinated in school not to question "science", and their interpretation that eliminates god...

 

These same scientists now believe that life came from gene roddenberry, scuse me, from space... and poof we all appeared. over millions and millions of years of course...

 

Because we all know that if you leave a junkyard for millions of years, it will develop the latest green car when given enough time...

 

wait... that doesn't work... Oh, well, it just happened. yeah, thats it.

 

Is your worldview warped by evolution?...

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/are-you-evolutionized - http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/are-you-evolutionized

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/are-you-evolutionized-facts - http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/are-you-evolutionized-facts

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-07-evolution-debate_N.htm - http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-07-evolution-debate_N.htm

 

And for the record, I don't even remember evolution being taught until high school. I would argue that most people already have pretty defined beliefs by then. I know I did, so your indoctrination crap is exactly that. I would venture to guess that whether a person believes in one or the other depends heavily on whether they were raised in a household that attended church or not, not what the school taught.

My bad.  I didn't not realize there is one type of creationism that fully believes in evolution - Theistic Evolution.  I guess if 1 out of 10 different types of creationism believe in evolution that's better than nothin

 

I've posted before about the time God healed my broken arm. I watched the bone straighten out. I felt the immense heat, and it was totally healed during the prayer. My grandfather who was a doctor and happened to be at our house when it occured and also witnessed it.

 

Of course you don't have to believe it, but for me, I will always believe as I saw firsthand (punny, I know) the power of God.

 

 

Here is a little test you can do yourself.

 

Why don't you ask God to prove himself to you...  If He is real, and sent his son to die on the cross to cover YOUR sins (mine too), and He Created the heavens and the earth, I think He can handle proving Himself to you.

 

Here is what you could say. "God, I know I don't believe in you, but if you are truly the "I am" God, please show me in my heart the truth of your word."

 

Then see what happens in your life. If you are sincere, (remember God looks at our hearts) I think you will be surprised at the way He would respond.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-06-07-evolution-poll-results_N.htm?csp=34 - http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-06-07-evolution-poll-results_N.htm?csp=34

Not sure how USA Today got the wording wrong in your article since they wrote both, but whatever.  According to the poll its self, only 18% believe evolution is totally true while 36% believe creationism is totally true.  The 66% and 53% from FE's article and yours, respectively was "total true".

However, it should be pointed out that a whole 17% of the people polled know little to nothing about evolution.  That could easily explain why creationism has the lead by almost that exact amount.  And lets not forget the fact that supposedly 82% of people say they know at least a fair amount about evolution.  I am curious as to how many of those people actually know about evolution, not the narrow minded, half-explanation given to them by their pastors.

And FE, lets not forget about this:

Luckily for you, there won't be too many of them there dern foreigners takin' up yer space in Heaven.

Lulz, that one really is my bad.  Before I posted that I read all that stuff about evolution and creationism and for some reason thought that was the point I was making in the first place.  When one thread ends up being about 3 completely different topics it gets a little confusing every now and then.  :)

 

"Why is it your god is the right one? sure you have "religious experiences" so do the Muslims, so do the Hindus. Same for Jews, Scientologists, etc. I'm going to assume you were raised Christian, why is it that your god is right? Other than your parents never told you that there was a possibility that they were wrong. If you were raised in ancient Greece, you would say the same about Athena, or Zeus, in Viking Norway, Thor or Wotan, Billions of people have died agonizing deaths for their gods, why do you feel yours is anymore special? What evidence do you have for me?"

 

Like I said, I dont intend to be a jerk right now. And I don't yet know the story, which is why I ask before I pass too harsh a judgement.

http://tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=178749&KW=god+healed&PID=2550696#2550696 - http://tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=178749&KW=god+healed&PID=2550696#2550696

 

One of the guys on our team (who went on to get a full ride scholarship for soccer and he tried out for the Olympic team) was one of my favorite guys to train with as he had a very strong leg and was really quick. His name is Kevin Scott, and he still lives in Raleigh NC today.

 

Anyway I was playing goalie and he was trying to score on me.

 

He kicked it low and I dove down to block the shot and broke my arm. Everyone there heard the sound of the bones breaking. I stood up and my hand was sticking out at the wrong angle and you could see where the bone was almost sticking out of the skin...

 

My house was pretty close to the practice field so I went home first to get my folks to take me to the hospital. I don't remember who drove me, but it was a painful trip.

 

When we got home my grandfather was there (he is a medical doctor, Dr. Robert Beckley). He took one look at my arm and said we had to get to a hospital to have it reset, and a cast put on it.

 

My parents said we should pray first. And they all stood around me and prayed.

 

I felt a heat completely cover my arm, and I watched as my arm straightened out and all the pain left...

 

It was amazing.

 

I don't know why God chose to heal me. I struggle with the question of "why me" often. Especially when I see small children with severe diseases.

 

But, I never question that God can heal.

 

He healed me.

 

Glenn M

 

 

ps, you should have seen the guys faces when I showed up for the soccer game two days later... They were convinced that I would be out for the rest of the season.

FE, let’s say I did take that whole story to be a factual miracle (I don't, but we can pretend.)

 

Why you? Why not the millions of people dying of AIDS in Africa? Why not the kids who were born blind and deaf? Why not my little sister? She was born blind, deaf, with CP, clubfoot, the only part of her brain that formed was the brainstem, and the rest was water. She had seizures every 10 minutes or so, was in extreme pain throughout her entire life. She spent 3 years in agony. She never left the house, was fed with a feeding tube her whole life, was on oxygen and half a dozen monitors, as well as being under nurse watch in our home 24/7. She had numerous surgeries and trips to the hospital, just to keep her alive for the 3 years we managed.

 

Why the hell would 'god' feel it urgent to fix your arm for soccer practice in a few days, yet I got to watch my sister slowly die in agony? Yup, sure sounds loving and fair to me!

 

(still not trying to be an ass, thats just a really really touchy subject for me)

__sneaky__ wrote: Religious people explain the universe as a miracle, and bam, it's done. Erm, as a studying physicist, I can't do that... Religion is a great tool to have if science is too hard for you to understand. Yes as scientists, we use terms for things we don't fully understand yet, dark matter, dark energy, etc. But that's because we are still working to figure it all out, we don't just simply dismiss it as a miracle.

Seriously, people, this is getting stupid.  Religion and Science aren't even talking about the same things.  Why is this still being brought up as if its Science OR Religion: Pick?

 

I don't know, but when I have a question like that I go to scripture.

 

2 Samuel 12 has something interesting.

 

 ¹⁵ After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David, and he became ill. ¹⁶ David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. ¹⁷ The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.

 ¹⁸ On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."

 ¹⁹ David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.
      "Yes," they replied, "he is dead."

 ²⁰ Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

 ²¹ His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"

 ²² He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.' ²³ But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

So, something so difficult like losing your sister can have many effects. It can drive you away from God, where you won't see her again when you die. Or it can drive you closer to Him, because of the promise that all His children will see Him, and live in eternity.

 

Based on your description of your sister, I know where she is... Not to be harsh, but to throw all of that back in Gods face and consider yourself an unbeliever just points out that you don't believe she is in heaven... Otherwise, why would you want to NOT see your sister whole, in the afterlife?

 

God Created us with the ability to make choices. And those choices affect us, and sometimes others.

 

At the end of the day, God sent His Son to die for all of our sin. Any one of us can choose to believe. Or not.

 

Its our choice.

 

Nothing we do can "earn" eternal life, it is just an act of accepting Christ as our personal savior to let his blood cover our sin.

 

Pretty amazing if you ask me, and very different from all "other" religions out there...

 

 

EDIT: Also, most any muslim, jew, athenian, viking raider, apache warrior, celtic monk, etc. will tell you that their religion is unique from all others.

 

Think about this for a moment.

 

What if we are spiritual beings. We currently reside in a body that typically lasts about 80 years...

 

Back when this body was Created and was close to perfection this same body lived for hundreds of years. Since we can agree that the result of sin is death, then according to that statement, anything that is given life, will die here on earth.

 

But, if we all have a spirit, that spirit lives on. Forever, and this life is just a blink compared to eternity.

 

So God chose to take your sister to the afterlife, after a time of suffering. Now she is able to live without the issues she was born with, for eternity.

 

You see that as God being mean, I see that as God bringing her home. Same with Job, I see a man who worshiped God in the good times, AND the bad times.

 

Life isn't a bed of roses, (or it is, if they are thorned) as life is hard. Bad stuff happens.

 

We can put our trust in God, or our trust in mans ability to "understand" God.

 

I'd rather trust God. But, we all get to choose.

 

If your sister were in heaven right now, and wanted to tell you how great it is... so you could join her when your life here on earth was finished.

 

Would it be "mean" of me to point out that I believe that is exactly what she would tell you if she could?...

 

But, its your choice, you can chose to be bitter about the horrors of life, or you can move on, and learn from the lessons life gives us. And be the best we can be each and every day, while trying to help others.