Tippmann scapegoats
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Which Gun is Best
Forum Description: Need Advice? Ask the pros.
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=183666
Printed Date: 11 July 2025 at 4:43am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tippmann scapegoats
Posted By: Old Man Shea
Subject: Tippmann scapegoats
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 9:58am
| Why does it seem that everywhere i go, people hate tippmanns? When online and talking with friends everyone downplays the tippmann name like they are cheap plastic cap guns from china. |
Replies:
Posted By: God
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 1:01pm
| Jealousy. Or they want to make themselves feel better for paying 2x, 3x, 4x, or even 5x as much for their markers. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 1:11pm
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I think it's pretty common for owners of high end equipment to look down on more entry level equipment regardless of the sport, hobby etc. And if I am not mistaken, some Tippmann products actually are being made in China. Irony of that is, so are others. * corrected for accuracy. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: God
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 1:32pm
| The latest Tippmann markers: The X-7 Phenom, SL-68 II and Tpx are all made in the USA. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 1:43pm
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
God wrote:Posted By: God
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 3:21pm
| Yes, I do believe that some of Tippmann's markers are Made in China. But I know that Tippmann has rejected and had some products redone when the product hasnt meet their high standards. |
Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 5:17pm
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The Alpha Black and Project Salvo markers are Assembled in the USA with parts made in China. The reason for this is to cut cost and transfer those costs directly to the new player or a player looking for a solid back up marker.
There is no "M-4" out the box marker in the market for the price of the ABT Project Salvo. ------------- 
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Posted By: TinMan
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 5:49pm
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You want to see hate, We were the only team to tie the toughest, undefeated Xball team in our league. We we're shooting Tippmann's, they were shooting Ego's and Geo's
Seriously though, I don't see the hate you mentioned. Yeah the high end marker owners
may hate on us sometimes, but like God said, for the price of their markers we'll let them.
Last weekend I played woodsball with an 18 year old Tippmann Marker, it was glorious.
My son used my 98 because his PMR broke down. I'm not claiming Tippmann's are better than any other marker, they're just better for me.
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 9:22am
I hear ya! ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: jubba
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 5:59pm
| I don't think there is that much hate for Tippmann, Smart parts yes, Tippmann not so much. I do think there is a lack of respect sometimes by noob electronic owners towards Tippmanns. When first starting out it is easy to get infatuated with rate of fire, but I would rather not go though a hopper and 3 pods in one game. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 22 November 2009 at 11:07am
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I agree with everything thats already been said. Mostly the fact that these guys need to justify spending an ass load more money on their markers than tippmann owners do, and get the same results that we do. Plus, I'd imagine there's quite a bit of irritation in their camp over the fact that a marker deemed 'entry level' can hold up to the higher end markers with a slight bit of modification. ------------- ? |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 23 November 2009 at 7:18pm
Fixed.
------------- 
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Posted By: WOLF S.A.
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 5:55am
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Horses for courses, as the old addage goes.
all about jealousy, it's human nature.
but according to me a reasonably mature male, in age alone, tippman products have not let me down under the african sun so far, a lot of other brands can't claim that much.
we have a ball torture testing any and all products to destruction over here , if it can survive bush warfare it is good. ------------- W.S.A |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 2:20pm
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Here are the reasons why people hate on Tippmanns: (These are not my views unless I said they are. These are paraphrases ideas I collected off the internet and in talking wit players at speedball and scenario tournaments.) The cyclone system is worthless for any type of speedball. It is like having a football on the side of your gun. This is most likely why you see a lot of posts asking if they could take the cyclone off of their A5/X7/Phenom. The cyclone system is hard on paint. It is like a blender. I have had a problem like this but it was that my paintballs were horrible, it wasn't the cyclone. They are heavy. This doesn't bother me but if you were to talk to a person with an Invert Mini it probably would. Out of the box they are heavier than other guns and if you put a stock, mag, shroud, etc. on them they get really heavy. MY VIEW: They don't shoot fast in semi-auto. My field only allows semi-auto and I can't compete with my 98. You can't work a Tippmann double trigger or any after-market double trigger for a Tippmann. They are very expensive. (This is MY VIEW and I did this with a 98 long ago)
Buy a Phenom. Put a flatline on it. New mag because the stock one is awful. Stock. Foregrip. Bipod. A second barrel say 14" J&J. Put a suppressor on it. Upgrade your cyclone. Put a sight on your gun, red dot maybe. Now you need a raised rail because you can't see the sight if you are using a stock. How about a tac light. Now you decided that you don't like the stock handguard that you use with your J&J and suppressor. TELL ME WHICH GUN COSTS MORE NOW!!! They are hard on paint. If you were to buy a gun like an Ego, a chop would be cause for concern and you might take your gun apart to see if there is something wrong with it. Tippmanns break paint all the time. They are gas hogs. The operating pressure of a Tippmann (phenom excluded) is about 550 PSI. The Phenom is 300. Lets take a look at the WDP Angel A1. The operating pressure is 30 PSI. Tippmanns most air efficient gun needs 10X more air to operate. They are complicated. I haven't had a problem with this personally. A high-end gun has no more than 5 parts that make up the bolt. A tippmann has a lot. I don't know how many but there is a lot of stuff going on in the chamber too. The front and back grips are too far apart on an A5 and 98. I think this is ridiculous but I guess. The grips suck. You can't upgrade the grips on any Tippmann after the 98. Again, not my view. MY VIEW: The X7, Phenom, and all variants of the US Army line do not come with a foregrip. I like foregrips. A lot of the parts that fit on the X7 don't work for the Phenom. I don't have a Phenom but I've seen an awful lot of complaints. Tippmanns don't use standard macro-line. I couldn't care less but to some people this makes a big deal. Tippmanns do not use regular detents or eyes. I would have liked to see eyes on the Phenom but detents don't bother me. Tippmanns don't have regulators of any kind. (Phenom excluded) I don't think they need them but... They don't come with good stock barrels. I think you would upgrade even if they did but... You have to use a different barrel adapter for the flatline. You can't change the ASA. I don't care but some do. I guess that is it. You wanted to know why. I can't see much more that can be said. Please don't flame me, remember, unless I said it was, these are not my views. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 8:04pm
I know the below weren't your views, but I feel like a rebuttal is in order- most of those claims are silly at best.
I'm not flaming you, I just felt like refuting most of what was posted. ------------- ? |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 8:13pm
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Going to the Angel using 30 PSI to operate: Wha? Yeah, it may take 30 PSI to operate the ram, but you are still using a few hundred PSI to shoot the ball. There is NO way an Angel is 30x more efficient than a Tippmann. More efficient, sure, but your logic is a bit flawed.
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: TinMan
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 8:16pm
| They sure as hell are mine Reb. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 8:26pm
Pardon? What are yours? ------------- ? |
Posted By: The Guy
Date Posted: 04 January 2010 at 9:24pm
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A guns operating pressure has absolutly nothing to do with its efficiency. Its a balance of operating pressure, and the amount of time the valve is held open. I can run my Tribal down to 150 psi, better than any other gun from the late 90's, but I have to put a 40ms dwell on it. ------------- http://www.anomationanodizing.com - My Site 
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Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 05 January 2010 at 12:49am
You are aware that Dwell has to do with battery life, not air consumption right? Dwell is the amount of time your solenoid is powered after you shoot. By the way, if you have high hopes for the Phenom stock barrel you will be disappointed. It is the same as the X7 basic. Unless of course that's what you wanted. The paint I was using was $25 a case. I could drop it on the ground from waist-level and it would break. As I said however, I don't blame the cyclone for breaking that stuff. When your shells have the strength of wet paper, there isn't much you can do. It is the same way in winter with any paintballs. I figured my post would liven up this thread. I'm proud of myself.
 |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 05 January 2010 at 6:16am
...And you do realize that dwell has to do with how long the valve stays open? The longer the 'noid is powered, the longer the valve is open - that means it has to do with air consumption. 150 psi running through a valve open for 14 ms will be different than 150 psi running through a valve open for 25 ms. ------------- 
http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 06 January 2010 at 4:45am
So, what you are saying is that you're an 'attention-whore'. ------------- 
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Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 06 January 2010 at 1:37pm
| and proud! |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 4:04am
I shake my head at many of your posts. Haha If I wasn't on my iPod, i'd go through your post like someone else did. ------------- 
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 8:44pm
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The difference between me and everyone else here is that i'm only here for conversation and argument. I'll be perfectly honest. I hate Tippmanns. I think they are heavy, slow, gas hogs, and hard on paint. This is all in relation to guns in their price range. 98---Vibe
A5---Blitz, SLG X7----SLG UL, Mini, G3, PMR Basic Phenom----Etek, PMR UL, G3 SE I realize Tippmanns are extremely durable but so are every other type of poppet. If you take care of your guns, durability isn't a concern. Even in the rain, mud, sand, etc. I have yet to find even one thing that makes buying a Tippmann a good choice. I challenge anyone here to give me one reason to buy a Tippmann over any other type of marker.
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Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 11:47pm
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They are a scenario type of gun. They do their job perfectly for the needs that are put out there. Honestly, I wasn't extremely impressed with my A5. To me, it was another gun. BUT, some of my friends LOVED it. They're into those type of guns.
Yes, I know, speedball guns are excellent for the woods, they are lighter(more compact) and faster, but look at those guns you mentioned. Vibe? I'd avoid it. Smart Parts is hated by all, for good reasons. I loved my original Impulse, but these days, meh. Disliked the Nerve, NXT, SFT and the Ion I shot wasn't half bad, but it had quite a few upgrades. SP is actually closing for January to restructure itself, it's not doing too well. Then the SLG. Never shot one, but why would I? I've never really seen anyone online that liked theirs. I get tons if the them offered on PbN with other stuff for my F8. Then your other guns are useless to mention against the X7 and Phenom. Honestly, you are TRYING to put an Etek against a TRUE milsim gun. This is a niche market. You buy thr X7/Phenom for looks, not performance. Good luck getting an ego to look like a real gun for the price of a Tippmann. Paintball is a niche market. Tippmann sells to woodsballers and scenario players, and also newcomers. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 1:34am
Here's my story: Up until about 3 years ago I knew almost nothing about paintball. I didn't have a field or store within 50 miles of where I lived. All I knew is my local sports shop had Tippmann and Spyder and Tippmanns were better. I used my 98 for years. I put a flatline on it (first gen). I couldn't hit anything. Everyone saw this and I couldn't sell it. I ended up trading it for a Tippmann stock mask from a power pack. I put a response trigger in and my friend put an e-grip in his. It was impossible to hit anything without shooting 100 times. We saw our performance slide until we had gone from the best to the worst. We got rid of our "firing enhancements" and we were fine again. I then invested in an X7, he in an A5. He was happy but saw no performance upgrade from his 98. I immediately had problems with the cyclone. I had replaced the ratchet in about a month. I broke balls in the cyclone continuously. I invested in squishy paddles. They did nothing. I also chopped all the time. I tried every kind of ball I could. My friends were using the same stuff that I was with no problems. I turned the velocity way down. This stopped me from breaking balls but crippled my range. I ended up selling the X7 and going back to my 98 after about 6 months of use. The X7 for me was the last straw. I vowed to never buy another Tippmann product again and to ridicule anyone/everyone who did as being someone who didn't know what a good gun looked like. I since bought an Azodin Blitz, 07 Proto PMR, SP Vibe, and Autococker Trilogy Competition. I have a Pinokio and Empire Reloader B. I also have a Ninja HPA tank (90/45) and a steely from Guerrilla air (62/30). I have Apex's and CP .689 barrels for both threadings. I still play almost exclusively in the woods with my camo. I can count the times on one hand that I've been on an airball field. Smart Parts WAS hated. That was due to years of subpar guns that reminded people of the Spyders they upgraded from. The Vibe with the Blackheart board is one of, if not the best sub-$300 gun on the market. You want milsim, SP1 is a vibe with tac rails. I am aware that SP is essentially done. GI Milsim is taking over DLX. Hopefully they will with SP as well. The SLG is marketed as a cheap Dye gun. That is exactly what it is. It is not made for semi, as is the case with the DM series. The SLG 09 was a complete overhaul from the 08. I have heard nothing but good things from the SLG UL. The basic owners had some grievances. So what if the Etek doesn't look like an assault rifle. It shoots like one. As you said, "speedball guns are excellent for the woods." How about at MacDev Drone. $500 and it looks about like an SP1. Essentially the MacDev version of the Etek. |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 7:30am
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MacDev is an amazing company, although if you ask a basic player they will have no clue who they are. Everyone hears about tippmann and their guns because they are fairly low level and easily obtainable.
I would go for the drone if I liked that stuff. It's a bit more expensive though. Most times when someone builds their favorite M4 or something, they do it over time because of money. Tippmanns are like Ions in a way. People buy them then build them up as they go. Take my dad for instance. He plays with us whether it's in the woods or at the fields. He would take his AB/Egrip anyday over my F8, heck over any gun. He loves that thing. He wants the more realistic feel, and at $130 for an out-of-the box milsim with egrip, it's perfect for him. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 11:14am
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I still don't get the "They're heavy" whine. I've never had to take a break because my marker was too heavy. In fact, if you run a remote line and are still complaining about weight, you should probably be checked for muscle degeneration. ------------- ? |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 12:34pm
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 3:50am
What about the X7 or anything from the US Army line? You can't take some of that stuff off. If you do take off what you can, the gun looks terrible. It's one thing to compare a 98 that looks like a sniper rifle to a speedball gun like an SLG UL. It's another thing to buy an X7 or Alpha Black and compare the weight out of the box to a speedball gun out of the box. Either way, I couldn't care less about the weight. Many years ago I rocked a 98 that tipped the scales at 22 lbs with a full hopper and 14oz CO2. I had a sniper full body shroud, 6 position stock, I can't remember what the mag was but it wasn't the sniper one, bipod, foregrip, 2 tac lights, 2 lasers one red one green, red dot sight, raised rail, 18" non-ported fluted sniper barrel, metal power tube, Lapco metal feedneck, barrel handguard with 4 picatinny rails, Tippmann drop forward, dishka barrel suppressor, and carry handle with picatinny rail attachment. I was obsessed with metal parts at the time as much as I was obsessed with Opsgear brand items. FYI, almost everything I mentioned has been discontinued. I even had a Zeus G2+ pistol back then. Still do in the closet somewhere. I did not, however, have a sling. Weight isn't the reason I don't like Tippmanns. My beef has to do with form and function. In my opinion, they excel in the former but make up for it in the latter. |
Posted By: God
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 3:55am
That does not make any sense.
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Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:07am
| They look good but don't perform as such. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:16pm
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They perform perfectly well to my needs and desire. Just because a product doesn't fit your tastes or needs, doesnt make a product "bad." It just is not your preference.
I would like you to explain in detail where a stock Tippmann marker didnt perform "good". I have yet to have such an experience. After market or user created problems do not count since they are beyond the control of the original products scope. ------------- 
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Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 7:39pm
I agree with your first statement. I said in my opinion, guns are about form and function. Tippmanns excel in the former and lack in the latter.
Very slow firing in semi-automatic. 5 BPS on a Tippmann. Easily 15-20 BPS on anything else. This is one of my biggest grievances and you can't upgrade this on a Tippmann. Very hard on paint. The bolt slams into the balls which causes them to break a lot easier than the smooth motion of just about every other brand of markers. The cyclone also puts a ton of tension on the ball stack and is not an optional addition for guns other than the 98. Very inefficient on air. Tippmanns are notorious for being gas-hogs. |
Posted By: TinMan
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 8:07pm
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So you don't like Tippmann's. Apparently your the only one that cares!
Your entitled to your opinion 100%, but most of your posts are just bitter
ramblings of how a vibe is supeior, and so on. Heavy, slow.... you hate them.
We get it.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 9:14pm
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 10:43pm
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You do know egrip and double triggers exist for tippmann, right? You always say they are slow... But, it's mechanical add an egrip and it'll keep up with electros.
Also, cyclones don't keep tension on the ball stack. It spins using excess air, there's no way it would keep consistant tension on the balls without a battery. Torques and Rotors REALLY keep tension on thr stack by using specifc technology that uses slips, not eyes or mics. Also, I hate my torque. I liked my cyclone, never had a problem with it and probably my most consistant loader. Not a fan if halos, my eggs broke, my torque annoys me with it's constant noise and spinning.... None of those problems for the cyclone. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 10:45pm
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Disregard bad spelling and grammer. I'm in my iPod. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 12:48am
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1st: I have never once said that Tippmanns were too heavy for me. I said to some people they might be. In fact, I gave the example of my old 98 which was 22 pounds. 2nd: When I compare a gun, I don't pick a gun like a Dye NT or a DLX Luxe and compare it to a 98 Custom. That's not fair. I pick a gun like the Vibe, which is in the same price bracket. Another example is comparing an Azodin Blitz to an A5. The argument I am proposing is that you can do better than a Tippmann in any budget. I am not trying to sell the Vibe. In fact, I would shy away from anything Smart Parts at the moment as they are temporarily shut down. They may never start again. You won't see much for customer service out of a company that isn't there. 3rd: You can't shoot fast in semi-auto with any Tippmann, e-grip or not. You can with comparable guns like the Blitz, Vibe and so on. The double trigger system for a Tippmann is worthless. It doesn't give you any upgrade whatsoever. The double trigger in comparable electro guns works because the trigger pull is almost non-existant. The trigger pull on a Tippmann is 3 lbs.
4th: Winter play doesn't count for chop and barrel break tests under any circumstances. Even if you live in an area where it doesn't get colder than 70 in the winter. Shells become extremely brittle during exposure to cold either while playing or while the paintball is being shipped from the factory to the store. They are unpredictable and you could buy two cases from the same store at the same time and one could go through perfectly and the other would chop every time. 5th: Automags have been discontinued for quite a while. They were a lot like Tippmanns though. In my opinion, the most durable marker ever made in terms of frame construction. 6th: Cyclones spin forward in a very harsh motion. They do not have smooth operation like most electronic loaders. When I had my X7, I did nothing but break balls in the cyclone. I have yet to break a ball in my Pinokio or my Reloader B. On a side note, I would not buy a loader that had continuous operation. It's hard on paint and batteries. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 7:33am
Comparing the trigger pull on a mechanical Tippmann vs an electro is a little unfair. And if you aren't including the Vibe because of Smart Part's possible demise, than what are you suggesting for a replacement? Where can you find a NIB marker, fully milsimed, with an electronic trigger for $169.00 ala AB or Salvo?
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 11:08am
This I don't believe for a second. Look at the 'out of box' abilities of a tippmann of any level, and those of a comparably priced marker from another company. Tippmanns will work with gravity fed hoppers, Co2 tanks and nothing else. Find a 'better' marker for the same price, and THEN assess the cost of the peripherals that are necessary for it to work. HPA tank? What does even a small one of those cost? Decent electronic hopper? All of a sudden, you're not in the same price bracket anymore. ------------- ? |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 1:34pm
The attention whoring would be much more effective if everyone didn't have to continuously correct the misinformation you post regarding paintball technology. ------------- 
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 3:01pm
Quiet you, this is an easy one, don't make him go away. ------------- ? |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 9:07pm
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I use an Automag, Phenom, Factory F/A, Crosman 3357 and an original SL 68 II. These markers are the only ones I use on a regular basis, I have a collection of 20+ markers. I do aggree that the regular X7 is pointless, which is why I dont own one. I am dissapointed that the Phenom cant be stripped down, also(I would love to ditch the rail and magwell).
My markers>yours.
Why? My markers all have the same performance as yours, albeit heavier. I need a light speedball gun? Automag. I need horsepower? Phenom, FA, Mag.
I can buy a shop full of high end electros with the classics I have(I wanted technology so I bought the Phenom). However, I can do everything a player with an Ego can, yet choose to be different. Markers like mine have class, and theyre more fun than any marker produced after 2000.
TL;dr. markers have same amount of performance yet old/bulky/loud and more fun. -------------
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Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:30pm
Where do they sell AGD guns? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want to know where it is. My replacement for the Vibe is the Azodin Blitz. Better out of box anyway. $170 With a possible loss of the SP1, you would have to turn to Spyder to do that. They do for a lot less too but there is a reason that Spyders are cheap. However, performance has nothing to do with you mag, stock, etc. That being said, why not spend your money on something that actually makes your gun better instead of just making it heavier? The Blitz and every Smart Parts gun I mentioned do run on CO2. If you want a high end gun, try an Autococker. All models run on CO2. All of the guns I mentioned also have eyes. You can't outshoot a gun with eyes. Therefore you can run on CO2 and although it is not recommended, you can run a VL200 hopper as well. It shouldn't matter though if you have made your purchases correctly. Mask, hopper, HPA tank, padding (knees and elbows), pod belt, gun, then whatever else you want. In that order. This order gives you everything you need for any gun on the market. Because you will have all the nessecary equipment, you can get any gun from a $30 Wal-Mart gun to a DM10 and be perfectly fine.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:36pm
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:24pm
You're going to run a VL2000 hopper on a marker with eyes that "cant be outshot?" Now you're just being silly...swinging for the fences on that one. ------------- ? |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 8:38pm
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High speed + CO2 = ice + potential damage
Also, you "can't outshoot eyes" because they don't let you! The eyes limit your speed to your hopper's feed rate. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 12:46am
(Regarding the eyes): That's what I meant. I'll admit I worded my original post in the wrong way. What I meant is a gun with eyes can use any hopper. I shoot CO2 on my Blitz and my brother does on his Vibe. He shoots max speed about 11 BPS. I shoot about 20 max. A paraphrased statement in an e-mail reply sent to me from Azodin: If you are shooting CO2, it is nearly impossible to freeze the gun because it will get so cold you won't be able to hold onto it to shoot it anymore before it freezes. I can't remember the actual quote. The only times we shoot HPA is tournaments, (Wisconsin) winter, or whenever we get the chance to fill our tanks. It's about twice the distance to fill HPA as it is to fill CO2.
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 12:33pm
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I like how my post was ignored -------------
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Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 7:02pm
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I know very little about most of the guns you mentioned as they are "old". I do know about the Phenom. It's a good gun but it's overpriced. I think it should cost about $250. I know only the basics about the Automag. I know nothing about the Factory F/A and the Crosman 3357. I know about the new SL68 but not the old one. This stuff is before my time. That's why I passed over your post.
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Posted By: TinMan
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 7:52pm
wait.. what?
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Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 10:47pm
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^^^ I just disregard stuff like that.
At 20bps, with CO2, it WILL freeze up. Your SS lines willl frost over, your reg/expansion chamber WILL frost over and the internals of the gun WILL frost up. It's not like it has de-icer built in with heat. I'm looking at possibly having no ability to use HPA in the near future when I start back up. I'm looking at cheap guns that are easily replaceable, such as an Electra. SO, I know the only possible way to keep the gun in good condition is to also get a Palmers and shoot reasonably, most likely 12ish. After that, in colder weather, it WILL frost up without a Palmers. Also, I want you to explain "semi-auto". You use it very interestingly. In Sandman's thread about any gun possible, you make very little sense. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 21 January 2010 at 11:06pm
Don't sell your HPA tanks yet: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=247451 - http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=247451
 ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 12:23am
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Semi-auto is one pull, one shot. The different trigger styles on the guns in the other thread are the reason for one gun to be better in semi-auto and one to be worse. Really, it all comes down to ease of trigger-walking. The Bob Long Alias Intimidator is one of, if not the best gun for semi-auto ever made. Planet Eclipse is also good. Dye guns have traditionally been poor for semi-auto play as they are not made for that but the NT is a step in the right direction. 20bps with CO2 can and will freeze up. However, it will be far colder than your hands can stand before that happens. Not to mention the fact that you would have to shoot far more than your hopper capacity. That is why it won't happen. 20 BPS is my maximum firing speed as 11 BPS is for my brother. I don't normally shoot that fast but if I do, I don't hold it down until my gun freezes up. That's dumb. Of course it's going to get really cold and freeze. You guys take everything I say waaaay to literally and overanalyze everything.
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Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 7:35am
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I'm just going to counter your first paragraph, I give up on the second.
Every single gun can/is semi. The only ones I don't regard as thy are RT tippmanns because there is no switch to change it. All other guns shoot semi like the next. It all comes down to comfort. Take an Ion for example. Stock triggers are crap, get one with a CP Roller and I can shoot it faster than my F8. It's all about what youre comfortable with. You make it sound like they physically aren't good at shooting -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 8:02am
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OPBN- Thats CRAZY! If they could develop for $300, I would almost definitely buy it. I have 3 friends that play whenever I do, so we could split it and it'd be a cheap investment. I know quite a few people who would pay to fill their tanks too. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 8:13am
Now back on topic young man! ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: buhju1
Date Posted: 22 January 2010 at 9:59pm
This is close to what I'm saying. Have you ever tried to shoot a Proto gun in semi-auto. It is IMPOSSIBLE to walk that trigger. I know. I have a PMR. I put an aftermarket trigger on it and it is better but it still doesn't match up to the trigger setup on stock DP''s. I can walk the trigger on my Azodin Blitz a lot easier than I can on my PMR. You can put aftermarket triggers on anything but there are some guns that are set up to shoot semi-automatic and some guns that are set up to shoot 3-shot or otherwise. Shooting fast in semi-auto is all about trigger geometry. The hole of the trigger needs to be behind the trigger so it is like an L shape, not directly above it. L-shaped triggers are the easiest to walk. I-shaped triggers are a nightmare. The trigger also has to be angled forward because of the way your hand goes onto the gun. |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 23 January 2010 at 1:00am
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All of those are preference. A new board will offer 3shot or true semi. It would offer an opti or micro switch, which is a big difference in feel. And yet again, the direction and setup of the trigger is completely opinion. None are greater than others. -------------
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |