Thoughts and Opinions - Holiday Tree.

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Holiday Tree.

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Topic: Holiday Tree.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Subject: Holiday Tree.
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:04pm

Can somebody please tell me what is offensive about calling it a Holiday tree? Seriously? It's not even a Christian tradition to begin with. It has absolutely nothing to do with the story or any kind of symbolism behind the christian story of Jesus' birth. To be honest, it was originally a pagen tradition that somebody decided to adopt. It was called a Yule Tree to begin with!

I don't see why so many people are offended by that.

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Replies:

Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:09pm

Well, I guess because giving gifts is a christian tradition with the 3 wise men giving the gifts to baby Jesus. Then people associate the tree with having presents underneath it therefore making it a Christmas tree.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:13pm

Interesting tidbit btw.

Jeremiah 10:1-5 in the Bible says the following (King James Version):

[1] Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
[2] Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
[3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
[5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:27pm

You're really turning this issue around?

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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:29pm

I think you are kind of trolling, but i'll bite.

Heres the answer.
http://bible.org/question/does-jeremiah-101-5-show-we-should-not-have-christmas-tree-celebration-christmas - http://bible.org/question/does-jeremiah-101-5-show-we-should-not-have-christmas-tree-celebration-christmas

EDIT: Plus we have already adopted it as our tradition so why are you trying to take it away?

Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:35pm

__sneaky__ wrote:

Interesting tidbit btw.

Jeremiah 10:1-5 in the Bible says the following (King James Version):

[1] Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
[2] Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
[3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
[5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Yet quoting the bible in defense of something you disagree with is a laughable offense.

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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:38pm

I'm not even remotely religious, and it's christmas. It's a christmas tree, and christmas presents. If you're offended by christmas, why celebrate it, then you're just celebrating a "shop more" day. I just take christmas at its face value: A time to be with family (or at least friends), gifts for one another, epic food, and being home. I dont need a religious aspect in any way to enjoy my day, it's still christmas as it always was.

Posted By: TinMan
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:41pm

I don't care what other people call theirs, mine is a Christmas tree.

There is no underlying meaning, it is a tree we put up at Christmas.

It is tradition, not belief based.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:44pm

Not trolling, or trying to start an argument, I just seriously don't see how its offensive when it has 0 to do with the religion.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:46pm

I don't know what a holiday tree is...

But, I do know what a Christmas tree is!

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They tremble at my name...

Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 4:49pm

choopie911 wrote:

I'm not even remotely religious, and it's christmas. It's a christmas tree, and christmas presents. If you're offended by christmas, why celebrate it, then you're just celebrating a "shop more" day. I just take christmas at its face value: A time to be with family (or at least friends), gifts for one another, epic food, and being home. I dont need a religious aspect in any way to enjoy my day, it's still christmas as it always was.

That about says it.

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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:11pm

Only the religion of global warming will be celebrated at the UN conference...

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html - http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

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They tremble at my name...

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:19pm

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Only the religion of global warming will be celebrated at the UN conference...

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html - http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

Well you know, since everyone all around the entire world is all completely christian.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:22pm

__sneaky__ wrote:

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Only the religion of global warming will be celebrated at the UN conference...

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html - http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

Well you know, since everyone all around the entire world is all completely christian.

Uh sneaky?

__sneaky__ wrote:

Not trolling, or trying to start an argument, I just seriously don't see how its offensive when it has 0 to do with the religion.

Is it a religious thing to you or not? Make up your mind man, jeez.

Also as much as that sucks at first glance FE, I actually completely understand. Religion aside, not everyone celebrates christmas everywhere, so thats okay by me. If they were banning the public sale of trees I'd be quite mad, but thats not the case.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:26pm

choopie911 wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Only the religion of global warming will be celebrated at the UN conference...

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html - http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

Well you know, since everyone all around the entire world is all completely christian.

Uh sneaky?

__sneaky__ wrote:

Not trolling, or trying to start an argument, I just seriously don't see how its offensive when it has 0 to do with the religion.

point taken.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:26pm

choopie911 wrote:

Is it a religious thing to you or not? Make up your mind man, jeez.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:29pm

Rofl_Mao wrote:

choopie911 wrote:

Is it a religious thing to you or not? Make up your mind man, jeez.

*see above post*

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:40pm

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Only the religion of global warming will be celebrated at the UN conference...

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html - http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

It amuses me that you of all people seem to be calling something a 'religion' in order to discredit it.

But anyway, why should they put up Christmas trees? They're obviously associated with Christianity in most people's minds, Christianity only represents a quarter to a third of the world's population, whereas the U.N. represents the population of earth in its entirety. It's appropriate for religious or religiously-derived symbols or practices to be avoided in such a forum, unless they're deliberately picked to represent all religions equally.

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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.

Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:42pm

brihard wrote:

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Only the religion of global warming will be celebrated at the UN conference...

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html - http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

It amuses me that you of all people seem to be calling something a 'religion' in order to discredit it.

Well religious or not, it's still a holiday not everyone would observe. I wouldn't expect decorations for a russian holiday.

Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:45pm

Every year Copenhagen puts up Christmas decorations... But, because of the UN global warming conference they aren't allowed this year...

more examples of political correctness gone crazy.

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They tremble at my name...

Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 5:49pm

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Every year Copenhagen puts up Christmas decorations... But, because of the UN global warming conference they aren't allowed this year...

more examples of political correctness gone crazy.

It's a global conference, again it's understandable. At first glance I agree this is stupid and unfortunate, but the more I think about it, it's no big deal. If they want to celebrate, they'll decorate their home and/ or office. Not a big deal to me at all.

Once again, if this was banning it from the public entirely, thats a whole different story, but this is just being considerate of others. Heaven forbid we do that.

Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 6:00pm

And who was it that got on Tolga's case about tolerance? Practice what you preach much?

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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 6:07pm

Yeah, no. Copenhagen has not simply banned Christmas trees throughout the city. They simply will not be allowed to be present within facilities being used for the climate talks.

Given the state of the world, avoiding religious symbolism at international conferences is probably a good idea.

Posted By: Frozen Balls
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 6:09pm

FreeEnterprise wrote:

I don't know what a holiday tree is...

But, I do know what a Christmas tree is!

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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 6:15pm

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Every year Copenhagen puts up Christmas decorations... But, because of the UN global warming conference they aren't allowed this year...

more examples of political correctness gone crazy.

Don't they realize that Christmas lights with LED bulbs consume less energy?

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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 6:36pm

brihard wrote:

Yeah, no. Copenhagen has not simply banned Christmas trees throughout the city. They simply will not be allowed to be present within facilities being used for the climate talks.

Given the state of the world, avoiding religious symbolism at international conferences is probably a good idea.

The fail stamp made me lol.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 8:19pm

StormyKnight wrote:

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Every year Copenhagen puts up Christmas decorations... But, because of the UN global warming conference they aren't allowed this year...

more examples of political correctness gone crazy.

Don't they realize that Christmas lights with LED bulbs consume less energy?

No christmas lights consume even less.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 8:31pm

People who are offended either way are silly.

However, I've not heard anyone I know personally be offended by the word Christmas Tree. I have, however, heard flocks of vocal morons who think "Holiday Tree" or any other such neutralizing term is offensive to them.

Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 8:37pm

It's a christmas tree.

Christmas isn't even a religious holiday anymore.

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Que pasa?

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 8:38pm

jmac3 wrote:

It's a christmas tree.

Christmas isn't even a religious holiday anymore.

Then why not just cut the christ part out? Just playing devil's advocate.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 8:41pm

What is the point in cutting the Christ part out? What would we then call it? Gift giving day?

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Que pasa?

Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 8:53pm

Obviously sneaky would prefer XxXmasXxX.

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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:28pm

High Voltage wrote:

Obviously sneaky would prefer XxXmasXxX.

Who does'nt?

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:29pm

jmac3 wrote:

What is the point in cutting the Christ part out? What would we then call it? Gift giving day?

If it's not a religious holiday anymore, why give it a religious name?

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:30pm

It isn't a religious name anymore.

That is the point.

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Que pasa?

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:32pm

jmac3 wrote:

It isn't a religious name anymore.

That is the point.

Christmas.

I actually disagree with you tho. It is a religious holiday to some, while it may not be to all or maybe even most, it's inaccurate to say that Christmas is not a religious holiday IMHO.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:37pm

Like I can't read...I know why it is CHRISTmas. It has evolved far past a religious holiday/name.

To some yes it may still be a holiday because they are christian, to most it isn't.

Christmas is now about Santa Clause, Christmas trees, and presents.

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Que pasa?

Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:41pm

I am christian, and I dont find it offensive.

non christian people calling a non christian tradition a holiday tree? The only thing that offends me is christians who celebrate the birth of there savior with santa clause and consumerism. Its so sad how we look at the rest of the country with disgust for peverting "our" holiday, yet give our children presents from santa clause. Its so sad.

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<1 meg sig = bad>

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:44pm

FROG MAN wrote:

I am christian, and I dont find it offensive.

non christian people calling a non christian tradition a holiday tree? The only thing that offends me is christians who celebrate the birth of there savior with santa clause and consumerism. Its so sad how we look at the rest of the country with disgust for peverting "our" holiday, yet give our children presents from santa clause. Its so sad.

THIS.

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Forum Vice President

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Posted By: pntbl freak
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 10:43pm

It offends you if Chistians give and receive gifts?

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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 11:18pm

pntbl freak wrote:

It offends you if Chistians give and receive gifts?

I think he meant it offends him that many Christians have completely forgotten what their holiday is about.

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Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 11:53pm

It annoys me when people are super sensitive.

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hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives."

Posted By: impulse!!
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 12:01am

Reb Cpl wrote:

That about says it.

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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 12:58am

Sneaky, do celtic crosses need to be axed as well? They're a pagan symbol that has been incorporated into Christianity. Even the use of the symbol of the cross is of pagan origins.

The Christian interpretation of the Christmas tree is many-fold, but perhaps the most outright interpretation of its value is that we use evergreen trees as Christmas trees historically. The pagan belief in choosing these trees is similar to the christian one in the idea that they represent the promise of everlasting life. Evergreens never go dormant, and prior to modern botany, people believed that trees "died" in the winter and were re-born in the spring. The focus on the evergreen was the idea that it never "died" but always stayed green and "alive" through even the dark and cold of winter.

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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 3:18am

I don't find the idea of a "holiday tree" so much offensive as just silly. If you don't believe in Christianity, why celebrate a Christian holiday? Doesn't that just make you look hypocritical?

Also, something funny I found out about the term "X-Mas"

Wiki wrote:

The word Christmas originated as a compound meaning " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ - Christ 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_%28liturgy%29 - Mass ". It is derived from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English - Middle English Christemasse and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_language - Old English Cristes mæsse, a phrase first recorded in 1038.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#cite_note-CathChrit-5 - [6]} "Cristes" is from Greek Christos and "mæsse" is from Latin missa (the holy mass). In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek - Greek , the letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_%28letter%29 - Χ (chi), is the first letter of Christ, and it, or the similar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet - Roman letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - X , has been used as an abbreviation for Christ since the mid-16th century.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#cite_note-11 - [12]} Hence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas - Xmas is often used as an abbreviation for Christmas.

Had no idea.

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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 4:04am

stratoaxe wrote:

I don't find the idea of a "holiday tree" so much offensive as just silly. If you don't believe in Christianity, why celebrate a Christian holiday? Doesn't that just make you look hypocritical?

Also, something funny I found out about the term "X-Mas"

Wiki wrote:

The word Christmas originated as a compound meaning " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ - - Mass ". It is derived from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English - - Old English Cristes mæsse, a phrase first recorded in 1038.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#cite_note-CathChrit-5 - Christos and "mæsse" is from Latin missa (the holy mass). In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek - - Χ (chi), is the first letter of Christ, and it, or the similar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet - - X , has been used as an abbreviation for Christ since the mid-16th century.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#cite_note-11 - - Xmas is often used as an abbreviation for Christmas.}}

Had no idea.

Hah. So that's where that came from. You learn something new every day I suppose.

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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 7:02am

High Voltage wrote:

stratoaxe wrote:

I don't find the idea of a "holiday tree" so much offensive as just silly. If you don't believe in Christianity, why celebrate a Christian holiday? Doesn't that just make you look hypocritical?

Also, something funny I found out about the term "X-Mas"

Had no idea.

Hah. So that's where that came from. You learn something new every day I suppose.

Truly....I didn't know that either, and I know people that get pissed off because of the whole 'x-mas' vs 'Christmas' thing.

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?

Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 9:02am

mbro wrote:

StormyKnight wrote:

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Every year Copenhagen puts up Christmas decorations... But, because of the UN global warming conference they aren't allowed this year...

more examples of political correctness gone crazy.

Don't they realize that Christmas lights with LED bulbs consume less energy?

No christmas lights consume even less.

Grinch.

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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 9:06am

MeanMan wrote:

It annoys me when people are super sensitive.

Thats what benzocaine is for.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 10:25am

My cousins family used to put up a Hanukkah Bush during the holidays. Some friends of my celebrate Christmukkah, which I actually find a little offensive as they don't actually practice either religion.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 12:59pm

We atheists need to make a holiday... Ideas?

Food and free stuff is obviously a must.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 1:04pm

Science dammit, no we don't.

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Posted By: JoStal
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 1:12pm

__sneaky__ wrote:

We atheists need to make a holiday... Ideas?

Food and free stuff is obviously a must.

It's called Christmas

Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 1:13pm

FreeEnterprise wrote:

Every year Copenhagen puts up Christmas decorations... But, because of the UN global warming conference they aren't allowed this year...

more examples of political correctness gone crazy.

I think that, amongst all the complaining, what we forget is that ten years ago political correctness itself was known as "Spastic Gay Talk".

Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 1:17pm

__sneaky__ wrote:

We atheists need to make a holiday... Ideas?

Food and free stuff is obviously a must.

Festivus works just fine methinks.

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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 1:32pm

Pictured: Holiday candlestick

http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/menorah-16020m.jpg">

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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>

Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 3:16pm

carl_the_sniper wrote:

Pictured: Holiday candlestick

http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/menorah-16020m.jpg">

Not quite.

Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 4:58pm

I happen to have christmas lights, two fake christmas trees, and a legit festivus pole in my dorm room right now.

Anyway, I find Holiday tree irritating. "happy holidays" is fine, as it includes all holidays, but Christmas trees are specific to well... christmas. Dont take away my tree because you celebrate hannukah. You have your menora, I have my tree.

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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 5:03pm

SSOK wrote:

Dont take away my tree because you celebrate hannukah. You have your menora, I have my tree.

Nobody is "taking away" anything.

It's not illegal.

It is companies who chose to do things like this because they realize that their customers might celebrate other things.

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 5:25pm

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 5:35pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 7:25pm

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Why not? Why should Christians be required to suppress their culture in order not to offend, but others aren't? How is that fair? I find it interesting that anytime a dignitary goes to another country, that part of the experience is sampling the local culture... except when it comes to religion. Not suggesting that they take part in the ceremonies, but why make them suppress their traditions? I thought we were going for religious tolerance here?

Works both ways.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 8:43pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Works both ways.

I never said that muslims should not follow the practice. I very much think they should.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 8:47pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Works both ways.

Religions and government should be kept far, far apart.

I doubt you'll find menorahs or minarets in the Copenhagen summit either. It's not unfair, it's diplomacy.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 8:48pm

brihard wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Works both ways.

Religions and government should be kept far, far apart.

I doubt you'll find menorahs or minarets in the Copenhagen summit either. It's not unfair, it's diplomacy.

This.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 9:31pm

__sneaky__ wrote:

brihard wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Works both ways.

Religions and government should be kept far, far apart.

I doubt you'll find menorahs or minarets in the Copenhagen summit either. It's not unfair, it's diplomacy.

This.

Yes, because that happens so much in Muslim countries. Again, I'll pose the question. If the summits were held in an Islamic country during Ramadan or another holy holiday, would the same consideration and concessions be given as what are currently being given in Copenhagen? Doubtful.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 9:47pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

brihard wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Works both ways.

Religions and government should be kept far, far apart.

I doubt you'll find menorahs or minarets in the Copenhagen summit either. It's not unfair, it's diplomacy.

This.

While it is doubtful, that does not mean in any way that we ourselves should follow suit. Be the bigger man. er... country.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 10:18pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

brihard wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

__sneaky__ wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

So I wonder if the summit had been held in an Islamic country during one of their holidays if they would have removed all of their religious icons from locations as well?

Sure is a good thing that as mature adults, we don't go by that kind of logic.

Works both ways.

Religions and government should be kept far, far apart.

I doubt you'll find menorahs or minarets in the Copenhagen summit either. It's not unfair, it's diplomacy.

This.

Now you're suggesting that we should descend to their level?

No thanks. I tend to think that our system is slightly better than theocratic ones.

Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 11:02pm

brihard wrote:

Now you're suggesting that we should descend to their level?

No thanks. I tend to think that our system is slightly better than theocratic ones.

Personally, I was a big fan of the Middle Ages. Theocracy for the win.

The likelihood of a major meeting of any sort occurring in an Islamic country seems highly unlikely.

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BU Engineering 2012

Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 11:10pm

ParielIsBack wrote:

brihard wrote:

Now you're suggesting that we should descend to their level?

No thanks. I tend to think that our system is slightly better than theocratic ones.

Personally, I was a big fan of the Middle Ages. Theocracy for the win.

The likelihood of a major meeting of any sort occurring in an Islamic country seems highly unlikely.

"Hey guys, wanna come over next Saturday and hate Israel?"

Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 11:20pm

brihard wrote:

ParielIsBack wrote:

brihard wrote:

Now you're suggesting that we should descend to their level?

No thanks. I tend to think that our system is slightly better than theocratic ones.

Personally, I was a big fan of the Middle Ages. Theocracy for the win.

The likelihood of a major meeting of any sort occurring in an Islamic country seems highly unlikely.

"Hey guys, wanna come over next Saturday and hate Israel?"

Well done bri!

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PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx

~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 December 2009 at 11:40pm

ammolord wrote:

brihard wrote:

ParielIsBack wrote:

brihard wrote:

Now you're suggesting that we should descend to their level?

No thanks. I tend to think that our system is slightly better than theocratic ones.

Personally, I was a big fan of the Middle Ages. Theocracy for the win.

The likelihood of a major meeting of any sort occurring in an Islamic country seems highly unlikely.

"Hey guys, wanna come over next Saturday and hate Israel?"

Well done bri!

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 10:17am

I am not advocating a theocracy. Simply expecting the promotion of tolerance to be universal, not selective.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 10:46am

agentwhale007 wrote:

SSOK wrote:

Dont take away my tree because you celebrate hannukah. You have your menora, I have my tree.

Nobody is "taking away" anything.

It's not illegal.

It is companies who chose to do things like this because they realize that their customers might celebrate other things.

That is fine, which is why you see "Happy Holidays' plastered everywhere, or my favorite "Christmahanakwanzaka" from Virgin mobile years ago. But with that said, I find it offensive that you can have symbols of other religious winter practices and have them labeled menora or whatever the Kwanzaa candle stick object is, but have to remove christmas from christmass tree. If companies are displaying "holiday trees" then I have to aggree that "holiday candlesticks" must be dubbed as well.

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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 10:52am

Hey guys.

Merry Christmas to you and your families.

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They tremble at my name...

Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 10:56am

guess he looked like a Christmas tree to them...

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They tremble at my name...

Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 11:35am

SSOK wrote:

but have

Unless it is on public, city/state/federal owned land, you don't really HAVE to do anything.

Companies make their own choices. Free enterprise and all that.

Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 11:54am

Truth to Whale.

It's not mandatory to remove Christmas from Christmas tree and whatnot.

It is done because as I have said Christmas has evolved far far far past the birth of Jesus into a consumer driven, gift giving, day off from work.

You people are saying "but christmas is a christian religious day". It really isn't anymore.

I am not religious but still say merry christmas and buy presents. In fact I don't know any actual Christians that celebrate it for what it is.

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Que pasa?

Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 1:58pm

fyi

From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics.

It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of their church. Eachelement in the carol has a code word for a religious reality which the children could remember.

-The partridge in a pear tree was Jesus Christ.

-Two turtle doves were the Old and New Testaments.

-Three French hens stood for faith, hope and love.

-The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

-The five golden rings recalled the Torah or Law, the first five books of the Old Testament.

-The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation.

-Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit--Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

-The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes.

-Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit--Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self Control.

-The ten lords a-leaping were the ten commandments..

-The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful disciples.

-The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in the Apostles' Creed.

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They tremble at my name...

Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 2:36pm

And of course no one figured it out because Protestants and Anglicans are stupid.

It's rather liberal to call 1558-1829 an "era".

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BU Engineering 2012

Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 3:11pm

SSOK wrote:

agentwhale007 wrote:

SSOK wrote:

Dont take away my tree because you celebrate hannukah. You have your menora, I have my tree.

Nobody is "taking away" anything.

It's not illegal.

It is companies who chose to do things like this because they realize that their customers might celebrate other things.

The tree has nothing at all to do with the christian story behind christmas tho.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl

Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum

Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 3:21pm

Ding ding ding!

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BU Engineering 2012

Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 3:37pm

jmac3 wrote:

In fact I don't know any actual Christians that celebrate it for what it is.

You haven't hung out with many Christians at all then.

Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 9:04pm

How fitting

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_13946232?source=rss_viewed - http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_13946232?source=rss_viewed

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Que pasa?

Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 08 December 2009 at 11:00pm