Christians
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Topic: Christians
Posted By: choopie911
Subject: Christians
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 3:54am
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What do you think of the Gospel of Eve (or Gospel of Perfection)
I just learned of it today, and I'm curious as to it's status to a believer. If it's known and disregarded, erased from history, etc. |
Replies:
Posted By: mamasboi
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:17am
| I for one haven't heard of it. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:45am
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It's odd, really, to imagine that your religious beliefs could be based off of the picking and choosing of an ancient church.
It's something that has always stuck in the back of my head. I've read most of the apocrypha, and really I'm none the wiser for it, but I can see the contradictions it provides. I'm kind of unfamiliar with the process that was used to determine Inspired Canon and disregarded text, but had said books been included the Bible would have been a much different subject. I'll go back and read up on the book you're talking about whenever I'm not on my iPhone, and give more opinion afterward. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 5:08am
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Yet another reason why I don't like organized religion.
KBK |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 11:43am
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Choop, been reading some Cracked.com top-ten lists have we?
Seriously though, the sexual interpretation of a lost book with only a few passages known through quotation by early religious scholars is highly dicey at best. If you read those passages from the gnostic gospel of Eve as a stand-alone text, then yes, they could be interpreted to promote free love and other acts forbade by the RCC, but when you read those same passages with similar passages from the gnostic gospels of Thomas, Judas, and Mary Magdalene, you see a common thread of the texts referring rather to the existence of God everywhere which is a revelation in and of itself given that the Jews believed that God literally lived within the Temple on the Mount. It also correlates with the other gnostic gospels on the subject of God being in man, a sense that the "divine spark" which we tend to refer to as the soul is a part of God. With that in mind, if you read one of the most prominent and often quoted passages of Eve, you can see that it falls in line with the tenants of Gnosticism and the belief of an omnipresent God through his presence in all that is around us including ourselves.
Again, this very much speaks to the concept of of Psalm 82 which states that "Ye are Gods." Even the extremely conservative KJV Bible states in John Chapter 10:
Furthermore, Gnostic Christians were extremely ascetic in their moralistic practices. They ate what amounted to gruel and abstained from sex in an almost Buddhist attempt to reach a higher plain of existence and communion with God. In fact, the modern day forced abstinence of RCC priests is not a product of the RCC but rather a product of early Gnostic Christian morals intermingling with the then weak and poorly organized church. To think that a Gnostic text such as the Gospel of Eve would have sexual connotations when the authors were clearly attempting to purify the flesh is a far-flung theory at best. Now, what does this mean to me as a well-read christian? For one, it simply reaffirms the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth that not only is God all around us, but within each and every one of us as well. If you want to take the sexual stance that some early "scholars" attribute to the Gospel of Eve, then I can tell you that I've never believed in the RCC's dogma. I was raised outside of the RCC as a Presbyterian in a society of no-nonsense people. To me, the very idea that sex is sin is repugnant. Almost all references to sexual sin in religion either fall under Leviticus and thus, are not covered under the new covenant of Christ, or are non canonical dogmatic decrees which, to me, have about as much worth when it comes to the teachings of Christ and the wishes of God as some whack-job standing on the capitol steps screaming that Obama is Kenyan by birth and not an American born citizen. My problem with the RCC is, and has always been, that they, more than any other organized Christian faith, have strayed from the core teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
I stood on a lofty mountain and saw a gigantic man, and another, a dwarf; and I heard as it were a voice of thunder, and drew nigh for to hear; and He spake unto me and said: I am thou, and thou art I; and wheresoever thou mayest be I am there. In all am I scattered, and whencesoever thou willest, thou gatherest Me; and gathering Me, thou gatherest Thyself.Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 11:58am
Strato, the Gospel of Eve doesn't exist today as far as we know. Some lunatic got so incensed back in the day that he burned every copy he could find. That said, the process of canonization was really an attempt to clear out all the clutter and get to the heart of Christ's message, which, when distilled of the mysticism surrounding the miraculous birth and resurrection of the body, is quite clear in the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The effort by the early church to "trim the fat" as it were, was, in my mind, a wholly benevolent act by the church to minimize any confusion and focus on the two most important tenants of the true christian faith; to love God, and to love they neighbor as thyself. The entirety of christian belief is (or at least should be) founded in those two tenants, in fact it really should not stray any father than those two tenants. The canonization wasn't the harmful part of the process necessarily, but rather the continued abuse of the position of power that the popes have enjoyed since the beginning and especially at their height of power in the dark ages. All of the mixed-up things that people consider "Christian" beliefs such as abstinence, tithing, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent, etc. etc. have nothing to do with the canon and everything to do with the attempts of those within the RCC to use their power for their own gain, or the gain of their friends, both personal and political over the years. This is the reason that some sects of Christianity such as the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the RCC is the embodiment of the anti-christ with the pope at it's head. The straying of the RCC from the bible is seen as the ultimate sin in their eyes. Mind you, this is a very hypocritical view point given that the JW's ignore the fact that Jesus said that only the two commandments of loving God and loving thy neighbor were the only things in the whole world that mattered yet they continue to take the old testament laws very seriously. The bible is a good book, the cannon is very good at simplifying the message that Jesus of Nazareth wanted to give us, it's just all the fluff that the RCC and other organizations have added to their dogmatic structure that make everything difficult and muddy the waters. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 3:56pm
And that statement almost invariably follows responses to criticisms that passages in the bible are contradictory and thus the bible is wrong. But as a (potentially overinflated, but none-the-less useful) counter-example, don't you find it silly that today scientists reject the notion of a earth-centered Universe? I mean, c'mon, Ptolemy worked out all the orbits and showed how the celestial bodies move around the Earth, not the other way. Or what about ether? Lamarck? Spontaneous generation? Don't you think its a little contradictory that you can pick and choose which theories to follow? Religion changes and adapts. Interpretations take on new meaning. New situations and opportunities arise and teachings which once we were sure were true aren't as true as they once were. Tallen made a lot of good points about the church and its history. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:12pm
Sure, that would be okay if the followers of a religion didnt make claims that the information that is directly from a higher power that is perfect. If god was perfect, the information provided by god must also be perfect and not ever adapting or changing. Religon should be based on what the higher power wants, not what society wants (unless we are talking about a religion that didnt come from a higher power and was created by society). Science is allowed to change over time because science is a method of understanding what happens around us and not supposed to be an end all -be all God "said so". Greater understanding leads to new knowledge. ------------- 
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:35pm
God didn't write the Bible though, Man did, and Man is not perfect.
Religion is a Philosophy. It will always be changing as people try to understand the meaning of life, the difference between right and wrong, and all the metaphysical questions which man asks. Until God decides to come down and spell it out for everyone, its going to adapt and change. There is no "end all -be all God 'said so'". ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:50pm
Since the title of the thread was directed at the Christian faith, I will keep the discussion pointed in that direction. Many Christians do believe that the Christian God did come down and spell things out several times. Many believe that God did define "right and wrong" Yes, in general religion is philosophy but since this thread was direct at a specific religion and many of those that follow that religion believe the Christian religion has been defined by a higher power, to them all the metaphysical questions have been answered by an End all- Be all higher power. The Christian religion to them cannot be ever evolving and changing because, to them God is the end all, be all. If we were to study the Christian religion over a period of time as a philosophy, yes, the religion does indeed change. But if we look a Christianity as a belief system, then it should not change over time and evolve because if someone were to believe one thing one day and believe something different the next day, than at one point one of the beliefs was wrong therefore invaliding the previous belief. -------------
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Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 5:11pm
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Alrighty then, so whats the answer? ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 5:23pm
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I wish most Christians could see their religion is nothing more than a general philosophy in the power of believing in ones own self. It's all just a giant, ingenious metaphor. ------------- |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 5:27pm
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Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 6:29pm
42.
Much harder to know. ------------- 
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 6:46pm
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The bible is said to be the word of god, despite it being written by men, it is supposedly inspired by god. If that is true, why exactly did the catholic church find it necissary to have their little editing commitee? ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 6:51pm
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Well, the Catholic Church endorses alot of ideas that are fairly contradictory to the even the most basic ideas in the Bible.
Bear in mind the old Church didn't allow their people to actually read the Bible. -------------
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 6:59pm
Edit: but I do agree with you on your above statement ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 7:04pm
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Man, I really wish those participating in this discussion would pick up some works on biblical studies. I'm not saying that as a derisive statement mind you, I just think that you would all benefit greatly from not only reading the published arguments already out there, but also from reading the Nag Hamadi library (dead sea scrolls) as well.
An interesting note which I think will play well into this discussion is the fact that the Gnostics believed that God was an imperfect being. Again, much of early christian theory was built upon the Gnostic teachings (they maintained their communities in North Africa and in the Levant in a move to protect themselves from the Roman Empire which means that their works and schools were the most advanced by the time Rome got around to accepting Christianity). This belief itself is represented in the very idea that Jesus was THE son of god in the RCC. It was only later, hundreds of years past Jesus' death that the RCC began to present him as ineffable. Prior to this, the belief was that God simply couldn't be perfect if he had to stoop to the level of inhabiting a human form. This very idea is explored in many works of theory as well as fiction and even satire. The crux of the theory is that God didn't understand what it was to be human, and thus had to become human himself to truly understand temptation, sin, and all the other evils which humankind has brought upon itself time and again. This very theory grows out of the "imperfect God" teachings of the early Gnostic Christians. Thus, we can also see that even if the Bible were the literal word of God, it would be the imperfect word of an imperfect God and thus need to be cleaned up and refined. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 7:07pm
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I've alawys took issue with the editing of the Bible, to be honest. It's at least always been in the back of my mind as a Christian, but I find the current condition of the Word to be consistent, and I choose to follow the values. I tend not to take everything literally, but instead use it as a Guide for right and wrong, not so much as a textbook to Who or What God is; or even His character for that matter. There are lots of Christians that would take huge issue with this, and I've gotten alot of flak for my beliefs.-------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 7:11pm
To me, thats all the bible should ever be. It's a book of stories with moral lessons and teachings on being a good person. Taking it beyond that to me is just silly, it's just a book. |
Posted By: Hades
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 8:38pm
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What is the purpose of this thread?
Are we looking at Christianity from a historical perspective or is it to explore what Christians follow/believe of their religion today, because they are two different ball parks. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 8:45pm
The purpose of the thread is even more simple than that, I was just curious what a modern christian thought of that book, as I hadnt heard of it before. Not much more to it than that |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 8:55pm
| Ive never heard of the book before. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 9:10pm
Doesn't surprise me. Most people haven't. There are even quite a few big-time biblical scholars who haven't even touched on the subject of the Gospel of Eve due to its esoteric nature. If there is a copy of the book left, I would think it would be in the restricted vault at the Vatican where they tend to keep copies of non canonical and "dangerous" christian writings. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 9:13pm
Thats what bugs me. It's just the censorship of what doesn't fit their view. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 9:16pm
Expelled? Never mind I don't want to get into this argument again. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 14 January 2010 at 11:15pm
And because it is relavent...
 ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 1:31am
Which is why the RCC has been hurting for worshipers for the past two decades at least! I used to think that Congress was the biggest god-ol-boy network in the world until I realized that someone who spent the war years as a Hitler Youth could be elected by his peers to be the leader of the largest Christian sect in the world. Even my dyed-in-the-wool Roman Catholic mother-in-law can't stand the actual hierarchical mumbo-jumbo that goes on within the RCC. What really irks me is that the views of the RCC and their dogmatic f-ups wind up getting the rest of christianity painted with the same brush. Again, I was lucky enough to be raised in the Presbyterian faith. Specifically the PCUSA which has a wonderful history of not only aiding their fellow man, but encouraging its followers to find their own way in their faith giving guidance only when asked. Never did I have a minister stand at the pulpit and preach of sin, or tell us that we were going to burn in hell for what we do here on the planet. Our ministers only ever talked of love. God's love for us, our love of him, and the love that we should show each and every one of our fellow man be be more "Christ like". That after all, is what it means to be Christian. Jesus of Nazareth preached the universal truth of all true religions. Only through appreciating and accepting one another and living peacefully while helping one another will the world ever know peace. I find the anger that is directed at the RCC from outside to be hypocritical in some respects. I myself have been critical of them for most of my life, but I also understand that human beings are imperfect beings, and through indoctrination, those in charge of the RCC truly believe that they are doing "God's Work". What I think we'll begin to see in the next 50 years is a move away from the hardliner oppressive dogma and a trend towards a much more ecumenical stance. Without this shift away from ultra conservative standings, the RCC will ultimately shrivel up and die. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 7:23am
And we haven't already? ------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs> |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 10:48am
Unfortunately, no. The whole point of ecumenicalism is to re-unify the faith of Christianity. While the RCC has stood down on some rather petty dogmatic rulings, they haven't even so much as extended a hand to the protestant churches in an attempt to reconcile 500 years worth of damage to the entire christian community. Furthermore, the RCC has a history of changing or easing up on the little things like they've done over the past decade only to turn around and put a hardliner in charge like they've done with the current Pope in an attempt to reverse the "damage" that more liberal leaders have done. Hence the fact that they continue to hemorrhage membership year after year. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 15 January 2010 at 11:09am
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 12:50am
 My thoughts exactly. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:38am
I should preface this by saying that I am not someone who talks about these kinds of things without experience: I was raised going to church, I was taught in a private "Christian" school up until college, and at one point in time, I believed in the sky wizard too. That said, yes, religion is a philosophy. Christianity is a form of that. The problem though, is that the vast majority of those who call themselves Christians in our age don't believe that the Christian Bible is a book of philosophy, nor do they think that it is simply a quest to understand the meaning of life. To them, it is the stone-solid, infallible word of God, written by men who were told by God exactly what to write, therefore it is the exact words of God himself. And, of course, the problem with that, is that this becomes an issue of right and wrong. It is no longer a fluid movement, instead it is brash tool used to weasel religion into politics and education. Why? Because the Good Book tells us so. Everything is unwavering. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:42am
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: FROG MAN
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:47am
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While I am not a qualified or near enough educated Christian to give an end all opinion I would like to have some input. In my time as a Christian and from watching documentary's and from church groups etc... there is always some kind of discussion on "lost gospels" or "disregarded books". I cant remember exactly but after Jesus had left 30 somewhat years later is when the first gospels started being written, and about 200 years after that there was a flood of other gospels from "shamans" and other fame seekers. These were ignored. So in a way there was censorship needed for the bible. As a Christian I believe that the sheer amount of copies of the bible has kept its integrity and change to a minimum and that God has kept the meaning intact. ------------- <1 meg sig = bad> |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:26pm
Fixed There are surely people exactly like you described, hell, I dated one once. There are definitely regions in this country where the majority of people are exactly like you described. But that is definitely not the vast majority of all Christians around the world in this age. But that is exactly the problem with modern day Christianity. To many are looking to the Bible in the wrong way. Many take it as the literal account you described, and so think that we live in a Geocentric 6000 year old world full of creatures God put here by his hand. Many mistake practical laws or church tradition for the word of God (eating fish on Sundays, not eating pigs, etc). Many, as Clark pointed out once, seem to have never gotten around to reading that second book that came out about this fella named Jesus. But there are also many who look at the Bible as a book of timeless values and allegories. A source of comfort and support and guidance. A way of answering the questions in our life. Some people don't get it, but I feel like the silent majority do. ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:46pm
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tldr thread... But, I found this article interesting.
Guess the history books will change again.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34880397/ns/technology_and_science-science/ - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34880397/ns/technology_and_science-science/
"Scientists have discovered the earliest known Hebrew writing — an inscription dating from the 10th century B.C., during the period of King David's reign.
The breakthrough could mean that portions of the Bible were written centuries earlier than previously thought. (The Bible's Old Testament is thought to have been first written down in an ancient form of Hebrew.) Until now, many scholars have held that the Hebrew http://www.livescience.com/history/071211-fundamental-birth.html - Bible originated in the 6th century B.C., because Hebrew writing was thought to stretch back no further. But the newly deciphered Hebrew text is about four centuries older, scientists announced this month. " ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 6:09pm
------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 6:17pm
| MBro for the win |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 7:50pm
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I lol'd ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:02pm
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I believe in God and that Christ is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for the sins of all man and that He was raised from the dead and ascended to Heaven. I believe the Bible is basically a manual on how we should live our personal lives and I don't believe that the Bible should be used politically. Every man is a sinner including all Christians and Pastors. I don't believe that there is one man higher than the other (ex. the Pope). I don't like to call Christianity a religion because it is Faith in Christ therefore it is a Faith. I do believe that Religion is poisoning the minds of many people. Religion is rules and restrictions. I don't really follow the law of the Old Testament because when Christ died on Earth he broke the old law. But I believe that the "rules" in the New Testament are more like strong suggestions because if you do one of the things it tells you not to do, it won't damn you to Hell. Remember no sin is unforgivable except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (but if you do that then there is pretty much no chance of you wanting or ever becoming a Christian anyways). I don't believe that suicide is a sin because if you kill yourself then there is no way to ask Christ for forgiveness when you are already dead. So I live life communicating with God through prayer and try to not to do too many sins as to stray away from my faith. I ask Jesus for forgiveness every day for my sins and it says in the Bible that He will forgive them. Also I don't like evolution or anything like that because if you study it and believe it, it will send you on your way to abandoning your faith and losing sight of God. But nobody is perfect and some are lead astray but can always come back to Christ if they don't die first. Thats just my view on Christianity. You don't have to believe it, but thats what I want to and do believe, and you can't change my mind. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:27pm
The moral and philosophical equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Can't hear you LALALA."
That seems healthy. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:50pm
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See, that's my problem. If nothing can change your mind, you are a fundamentalist. I firmly think that you should follow the evidence in absolutely everything. If nothing can change your mind, you are just closing your eyes, covering your ears, and running away from reality. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:38am
Exactly why closed-minded, deeply religious people scare me. They believe in a book and will not listen to anything else, even reality. I can understand strongly believing in the philosophical aspect of these religions, which is generally good, but when you start trying to twist the words to fit your own agenda and taking these metaphors too literally then some very bizarre things can happen. I think that's the problem with religious people today. They take things too literally and too often try to shape the words to mean what they want them to mean, justifying things that are often completely unrelated and/or inhumane. I used to consider myself Roman Catholic years ago since that's how my parents raised me but I realized when I was about 17 that people had it all wrong. Once my view of things changed, I stopped considering myself a Roman Catholic and now consider myself an Atheist. I don't think religions are stupid though, I still generally agree with the philosophy behind them, but I don't like organized religion. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 11:24am
------------- I ♣ hippies. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 12:46pm
Really?
There's so much wrong with the post, I don't know where to start.
First of all, if you actually believe what you just posted (and here in the forum I try to give you the benefit of believing what you say), you're an ignorant bigot. Had this comment been made about someone for the race, gender, sexual preference, or basically any other religion besides Christianity, you'd likely incur a (apparently final-?) strike, aside of course from the indignation of the forum regs.
But since Christianity is open season, I suppose you can get away with moronic statements like this one,
That being said-you say you have no problem with religion, and if Christianity makes your life better then you're glad, yada yada yada, yet you paraphrase by saying that if you actually believe the religion that you're following you should be shot...?
I probably should let this go based on the sheer ignorance of the statement, but it really just strikes me as amazing that comments like this are so commonplace nowadays. -------------
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 12:52pm
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No one should ever be threatened for their beliefs. I may not be a fan of any organized religion, but I still believe you have the right to follow it if you so wish. I don't think you were being serious with your comment, but geesh, that was still a bit harsh ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 12:53pm
I'll just post this?
Always makes me lol/ smile |
Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 2:08pm
Now, I did take it a little far with the whole being S.o.s and breeding Ill take blame and say sorry for the comment. but it just boggles my mind that one can actually fully belive that someone was brought back from the dead... Not brought back like maybe 5 minutes later which can fully happen, but 7 days was it? You have to be high to actually think that is the truth. ------------- I ♣ hippies. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 2:28pm
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3 days, but yes, it's still rediculous. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 2:30pm
Waits for strats paragraph long argument towards my comment... ------------- I ♣ hippies. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 2:33pm
Christ rose again on the third day according to the Bible.
And of course I can see how someone doesn't believe in my religion...it is difficult to believe, and I don't hold it against you that you don't. Only a few of my friends are actually Christian-my closest friends are all either agnostic or atheists.But what I do judge for, regardless of religion, race, sex, color, etc etc...is their attitude. It's the modern attitude of aggression towards everyone who claims Christianity, regardless of the person, that some people hold.
Belief in Christianity is a choice to believe in the supernatural-for some, such as myself, the belief in the supernatural takes backseat to the values that the Bible and Christ put forward (and of course I should add I'm a terrible example of Christian belief, I really don't follow most of my own, but I hold them nonetheless). I tend to lean more towards science in the debate of science vs religion, but I do hold that there are things that science will never be able to explain, and that it's possible for events or actions to take place that are completely beyond the realm of science.
To I claim to have seen all of these things? Of course not. Does my belief hinge on them? No. I don't believe what I believe because someone proved it, so there's no point in trying to disprove. I believe it because I want to believe it. And as hard as it may be for many of you to believe, my religion has never conflicted with education, job, or even my hobbies.
And the predictable response on this forum would typically be-"But MOST Christians aren't like you, MOST Christians are fanatics and dogmatic <insert cliched example of Christian fanatacism>". I don't buy this-why? Simple-because this country is a Christian majority, and if the majority of them were fanatics about the Bible, there would be far less evil here in the US. You wouldn't see the rampant hedonism, the nasty, self-obsessed egotism, the sarcastic self-serving bastards that this country tends to breed would be the vast minority.
Because, for the most part, the people you guys hold as the example of the ignorant, fanatic Christian are in fact violating their beliefs, and therefore many of them would not even fall into the category of Christian, any more than the Pharisees of Jesus' day fell into the category of "righteous", or the Muslim extremists that many of you get so outraged when they are associated with everyday peace loving Muslims.
So how about this-next time one of you goes to throw down a sarcastic, hurtful generalization, why not apply that same open-minded compassion that I see everytime someone here on the forum mentions terrorism, and so many rush to point out that extremism in fact violates the principles of Islam.
Because, believe it or now, the New Testament Bible does not portray militant loud-mouthed fanatics working their way into every form of life you can imagine, and it certainly doesn't endorse the kind of aggressive, angry religion that some choose to endorse among my faith. -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 2:35pm
Done, and done
 Also, just because I like to be a smartass, it's *ridiculous and *realize
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Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 2:47pm
------------- I ♣ hippies. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:15pm
No, that is called strong faith. I never said I don't listen to everything else, I do, I just choose not to believe everything else. Everything else has nothing to offer. This is working out for me and I love my faith. Also I don't like organized religion - that is not the way Christ intended His people to follow. The real church, to me, is a body of believers in Christ that He is the Son of God and died for the Sins of all men and He was Resurrected and any other deviation of that is not Christian. So I don't like denominations or anything like that, that's why I call myself an Nondenominational Christian, because Christ also did not want his people split up and He did not choose any sides. To me denominations only bring rules, restrictions, and it eventually leads unhappiness because you cannot perfectly follow those rules so you get "ZOMG YOU ARE A SINNER YOU ARE GUNNA BURN IN HELL!!11!." Quite frankly God doesn't really care about the church rules. God only wants a relationship with you because you are His creation. I'm not saying that some restrictions are unimportant because there has to be morals like don't steal, don't kill, don't rape, or anything like that. I'm talking about you can't make jokes in church or you can't listen to rock music or you can't do this or you can't do that. It's just silly. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:18pm
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^ You should not believe in something because it makes you feel good. You should believe in something because that's what you honestly, based on all available evidence, think is the truth. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Darur
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:20pm
You realize the evolution issue is entirely a denominational thing, right? Along with virtually every bit of Christianity? ------------- Real Men play Tuba [IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1859/newsmall6xz.jpg"> PH33R TEH 1337 Dwarf! http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/log_off_user.asp" rel="nofollow - DONT CLICK ME!!1 |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:31pm
Que?
I do believe its the truth.... Why can't the truth feel and be good? Why does everything have to be so dark and gloomy? That's another thing I don't like about Atheism is that it has and does nothing for you. Whats the point of life then? Why not just shoot yourself? (Not saying you should, just saying) |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:34pm
Because it is? I think I appreciate life and enjoy it more because of my lack of faith. The world astounds me as a creation of blind luck. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:49pm
Atheism really isn't as gloomy as its made out to be, its all a matter of perspective. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 4:54pm
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Oh, and heres a quote for you. "Isn't it enough to see that the garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" -Douglas Adams ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 6:17pm
Um how do you mean? Do you think we all live like monks and nuns in a life of exclusion from the rest of the world? The only way I can see what you mean is by heavy drugs and sex before marriage.... Yeah, thats a real downer that is.  By the way, we also help others. I would be pretty confident in saying that churches are the biggest charity in the country. My sister's church, for example, served over 500,000 hot meals last year to the homeless people of Miami. Every Sunday they provide hot meals, new clothes, showers, and an optional church service. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 6:36pm
And yes, churches are a force of some good in the world. There are plenty of cheritible atheists in the world too. That does nothing to prove your argument tho. You are still bringing up topics of how religion makes you feel better, and ignoring any mention of what gives you such a conviction that god is real. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:14pm
1. I know you didn't, but I couldn't figure out how we live any less of a life than you do. 2. A lot of times bad things are not part of God's plan, but some people like to blame God. "God could have prevented said incident" yea, He could have, but Hes not some magic genie that does what everyone wants Him to do. It has to do with free will. God gave man free will to choose good choices or bad choices (lets say... a murder) and God cannot stop the murderer from killing a person because then we would all be like robots. God doesn't want us all to be robots by making us love him, then it wouldn't be real love. * sorry #2 is sort of a weak argument but I'm not really here to argue. 3. I'm not here to prove God is real... I'm here to state what I believe and why I believe it. Lets say God has a subtle way of working because if He was to appear to the whole world, I would doubt that everyone would believe that it was Him.... and if they did, a few years later people would begin to doubt His existence because they didn't see Him themselves (like Adam and Eve saw God and walked with him but look at us today having this discussion). Again I'm only here to say what I believe, not to bash or disprove someone else. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:47pm
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I find my system of beliefs explains the whole good thing and bad thing happening pretty well...I don't believe that some supernatural force controls everything that happens, I think God created the earth and that's the extent of it. What happens happens...He set things in motion, and that natural motion continues whether it's for the good or the bad. Part of said motion is human will.
God's "plan" isn't so much on a massive global scale, but a personal scale of lifestyle. Alot of modern day Christians spend alot of time focusing on prophecy, and massive global conspiracies of doom and glood because quite frankly it's easier than dealing with their own personal issues. Small foxes I suppose. -------------
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Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:21pm
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Hail Eris.
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 1:15am
Granted, you are entitled to believe whatever you want for whatever reason, I just can't understand people that think like you (a LOT of Christians). You basically just believe whatever makes you happy and consider that to be the way things really are, regardless of facts. There is no way to prove any of that "info" about God's ways or existence is true yet you believe it to be. Obviously I disagree with that but I'm more interested in understanding why you're willing to believe it than I am in trying to sway your opinion. I guess I can understand convincing yourself something exists or is a certain way just because it makes you happy to think that, but then doesn't that just make you delusional (not trying to be insulting there)? And in response to the Atheism comments, I think there is a huge misconception among non-Atheists about what Atheists are like. People always depict Atheists as these dark, gloomy people that believe in nothing and spew depression from every orifice. Obviously, that's just not the case. So far I haven't met one person that I could tell was an Atheist without having some sort of discussion that led to them sharing that fact. Believing that there is no God does not mean you don't believe in morals or that you think life is meaningless. I mean, sure, an Atheist can believe that but it's not part of the definition and doesn't seem to be the common belief. I consider myself Atheist and I certainly don't believe that life is pointless or that morals don't matter. I believe that despite God not existing, morals are important and that while we may not have a real concrete purpose for existing, we should make the most of our time and enjoy it. Most of my friends are Atheists and they basically share that same set of beliefs. There is nothing depressing about that at all and it actually drives us to enjoy life more. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 1:21am
So do you pray? ------------- 
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 8:05am
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I understand Christianity in the mind of those people who grew up in it, because I've been there. When someone tells you this is fact from very very early in your childhood, and sticks to the same stories, the same reasoning, and you never really here a serious alternative all the way up till you are a teenager, it's very very difficult to get away from that. I remember when I first turned away from Christianity, I'd still randomly catch myself having a little mental conversation with "god," not because I thought he was really there, but because after you go so long, starting at birth, being told the same thing, you are literally brainwashed. I don't mean that offensivly, but think about it. It's hard to just stop and forget. When you finally do hear about evolution in highschool science class, you sit there laughing at it because what you have been told about evolution is so completely twisted, scewed and warped, that it sounds stupid to anybody. The people that taught you that version of evolution don't know any better themselves, so it's not like it's a deliberate tactic, but regardless, it's effective.
Now I can't speak for all Christians everywhere, but I can tell you my story. And that's basically why I followed it. Btw, sorry about any spelling and grammer, this iposting is a bit difficult  ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |