'nother car thread
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
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URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=185050
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Topic: 'nother car thread
Posted By: StormyKnight
Subject: 'nother car thread
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 5:31am
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On the 16th around 9:40pm, I'm on my way to work. I get about three miles away and decide to change the channel on the radio. I take my eyes off the road for a half second when I hit something. Didn't even see it. I'm doing about 55mph and the noise of the impact put my anus at pucker-factor 9. The engine light comes on and the transmission starts to slip and I limp the car about an 1/8th of a mile down the road to a party store.
All I could think was, "please don't let that be a person, please don't let that be a person, please please please...." Park it and get out to look at the damage. There was a copious amount of deer fur all over the shattered front fascia of my Neon. What's left of the coolant is pooling under the front end. I look back and see an ugly dark streak that trailed behind the car right after I hit the deer.
Insurance company gets in touch with me two days later and tells me they'll pay up to $3800 to fix it, or $5300 to total it out. I opted to total it out.
Now here is the irony. That very day I made my last payment. I must have wronged somebody somewhere down the line to deserve such Karma. So, now I got it into my mind to get a new Malibu. Not a bad looking car. Not terribly expensive and the fuel economy is pretty good for a mid-size sedan. Took my wife to look at them when she spied upon an Equinox. Little bit more expensive, but has the same engine and drivetrain as the Malibu. It only suffers 1 less mpg than the Malibu and is far more spacious. Only problem is, they are rare as hen's teeth and don't stay on the lot very long. The 3 out of the 4 on the lot all had SOLD stickers on them.
Not deterred by this, I went to the dealer the next day to test drive one. The one I tested was the 1LT package with the remote start and a rear-facing camera that activates a small screen on the rearview mirror when you put the vehicle in reverse. I thought that was pretty slick. It drove about how I suspected it to drive. Being a crossover SUV, it drove like one and handled the bumps in the road like one. Smooth on the highway and had decent acceleration for a 4-banger. After the drive, I got into the back seat and was impressed by the leg and headroom it had. It would be a joy to get the baby in and out of that compared to my wife's Impala.
Problem is, negotiating on price will be tough. As I mentioned before, they sell almost as they're unloaded from the delivery truck. There are also no national or regional incentives for the same reason. I've done my homework and know what the dealership pays for the vehicle, what the kickbacks they get from GM, but that will do nothing for me since the Equinox is a hot ticket. Guess I'll have to settle for my Father-in-law's GM discount. Now I have to see who can offer me the best financing. So far, I have 3.99% for 72 mos. and that's before they check my credit. Wish me luck... ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 9:27am
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Good luck. Man this forum hasn't been doing well with cars recently. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: JohnnyHopper
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:08am
 ------------- My shoes of peace have steel toes. |
Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:49am
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1st problem was you bought a neon... 2nd problem is your looking at GM now...
GM is a bunch of basters that already took your money... a 4banger in a vehicle that heavy will be junk in a few years. the engine will have to work much harder to get it moving and up to speed... honestly, right now i would buy a honda... they are assembled in the USA, have great quality and will out last any GM you buy... also go with the largest engine you can get, it will last you much longer than the smaller and still get fair fuel economy... i would also put money saying the EPA fudges the numbers on GM vehicles now... ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 12:15pm
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I gotta go with Merc on this one Stormy. Take a look at the Honda Pilot and Honda Element. My co-worker bought an element recently (just before the snow storms here) and has loved it ever since. He actually fit 32 boxes of cabinets from Ikea in the sucker the other day. Tons of space, fun to drive, and available AWD makes it a winner in my mind. Also check out the new Subaru Forrester while you're at it. The Mazda cross-overs are rather nice too. My family had a Forrester for 10 years and it ran like a champ! ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 12:40pm
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First, related car story (with apologies to Stormy--I'm not trying to do a hijack; it just seemed like a good place for it.) Due to changes in the state university system I have spent last semester and this one driving a 110 miles, one-way, twice a week to get two classes I need to finish off my minor. Early in this semester I took a feather missile through the grill at 70 mph. So, bird-hit; can't be that bad right? On CRVs, the lower grill is an integral part of the bumper so I need a whole new bumper. The little sucker also bent/punctured my AC condenser so throw in a new one of those and a system recharge as well. Critter-hits bite. Stormy, skip the GM and look at Honda (as suggested by a very wise forum member above). My wife talked me into looking at them back in '06 and I really like my CRV even though I went cheap and got the bottom of the line model. Plus, they move off the lot quick too so you can still have the experience of dealing with a dealer who doesn't have to negotiate. (My only CRV-related complaint is the "hesitation" of the engine when I go to pass. Perhaps I was spoiled by pretty much owning nothing but torquey engines with no less than 4L displacement before this.) I will say that the Element is nice as well but the seats bother my back. (Related to seats, I looked at Suburus as well when I got the CRV and their seats are just atrocious.) ------------- 
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Posted By: merc
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 12:51pm
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^ if the seats in the neon are anything like the stratus im sure he will be fine with honda seats :P ------------- saving the world, one warship at a time. |
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 1:05pm
| Watch out with Subaru. I believe they still have a known design flaw in some of their older engines, an issue with the head gasket. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 1:34pm
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Skip GM. Im going to be my usual, BUY 'MERICAN self and suggest you dont buy Honda, but ignore that.
Regardless, my mom bought a 2005 Impala. Sharp looking car, handles nice, and has a good amout of horsepower. Worst decision we ever made. Am I suggesting you avoid GM because of this? No. I suggest you avoid GM by looking at the writing on the wall.
Ive lost faith in GM. ------------- 
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 1:47pm
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I think SSOK's point is a good one. Personally, I have really enjoyed the Honda Pilot and the two Honda Elements I've been in, although I haven't use them enough to give you a real review of either. My family seems to like Volvos and Suburbans, neither of which I would buy, so I'm afraid I'm not much help around here. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 4:09pm
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ew hondas. go with either a subaru or a mazda if you dont want a USDM car. or if you want to go fast there is always the Prius option
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Posted By: nickman98
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 4:41pm
| the malibus are really nice i wish i could have afforeded the extra payment when i got my cobalt(dont get me wrong love the cobalt too). i never thought i'd hear myself say this but check out the new ford taurus they look nice and drive well from what i hear. either way stay away from forigne..we all know why. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 4:52pm
I heard Prius's drive okay but have trouble stopping. -------------
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slackerr26 wrote:Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 5:49pm
Drive a Prius once, and you'll never stop! |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 5:52pm
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Toyota- moving forward whether you like it or not
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 6:14pm
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 6:44pm
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Why a Malibu?...
And now of course: *obligatory Toyota fanboy comment* |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 6:46pm
The element is an ass ugly vehicle, and the CRV is a girls car...what are you doing? |
Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 7:35pm
Subaru/ Mazda
 What's you price range stormy? ------------- [IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif"> |
Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 7:58pm
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Volkswagen Jetta TDi. If you can pony up for the Cup Edition, it'll make for one hell of a fun drive. Plus they get awesome gas mileage. I think I'm gonna trade my Cobalt in for one. ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:04pm
Cobalt SS? ------------- [IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif"> |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:04pm
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Toyota: Moving foward, even when you dont want to.
As for crossovers and new SUVs, I think they are the most useless vehicle ever. But that is just me griping as usual.
Although... The Ford Edge is snazzy... -------------
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:07pm
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First and foremost, thank you for all your helpful input. I appreciate it. Problem is if I were to purchase foreign, it would be VW. That won't happen anytime soon. I will not own a Japanese vehicle. I do not respect the Japanese for several reasons, most of it deeply rooted in history and also from personal experience. I've seen how the S. Koreans nitpick on enforcing their 10yr/100,000 mile warranties, so they're out too. Now Ford. I just don't plain like 'em. The retro-styled Mustang looks very nice, but I wouldn't own one.
I won't go to Chrysler/Dodge right now as all they've done is freshened up their lineup. Their fuel economy is abysmal at best and I can't wait for their Fiatized lineup to hit the market. The Neon I had served me well while I had it. Not the best fuel economy, but it was better than the RAM I traded for it back in Spring '05.
I decided to try GM again when they started expanding on their direct injected engine offerings. Both the Malibu and the Equinox have the same 2.4L direct injected engine and transmission. I drove both and liked both. The Equinox is roomier and more family friendly.
I don't want to finance any higher than $20K. -------------
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Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:09pm
Yes, it's a SS. ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:09pm
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I like the VW Jetta TDi. Seriously considered it. But for family reasons, it is a little too cramped. Maybe the Passat, but I don't think that's big enough either... -------------
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:12pm
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I never want to buy a car. Perhaps the Marines will let me fly back and forth to work. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:12pm
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Seriously? I'm considering the Jetta FOR family reasons. Getting a baby seat in and out of the back of a Cobalt is a PITA, and I just can't justify driving the SIlverado everywhere I go with Amanda. Thought the Jetta was bigger than the Passat? Edit: Nevermind, the Passat is bigger. ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:19pm
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I just have to wonder about the newer diesels. I hear they're better. The turbo is better, but what about maintanence? Having a turbo is a host of extra moving parts that may need care. I know the older TDis were problematic after awhile and replacing/repairing a turbocharger especially in a foreign car can't be cheap... I doubt you can take it to any local garage to have them serviced. Just things to consider. -------------
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Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:23pm
a wrx sti over any honda (unless its an nsx) any day of the week -------------
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Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:24pm
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I've got a buddy that owns a diesel shop. I get cheap maintenance, so it won't matter much to me, besides, if you buy new, VW offers free scheduled maintenance for like 36k miles. All the VW/Diesel people I've talked to lately have said the VW tdi engines are very reliable, the only thing you HAVE to make sure of is that the timing belt is replaced when it's supposed to be. ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 8:45pm
Being secure in my manhood.* *It helps that the 06 was the last year before the latest redesign . . . which does look like a girl car. Darn, I guess Choop is kind of right after all. (I have specifically told the wife that I'll keep mine and if we get the new one we talked about it is all hers. My bad. . . forgot about the model update.) -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 9:10pm
Evo IX > Any STi -------------
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Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:15pm
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Mitisu**edited**i's are worse than subbies. And I would never want to drive a turbod subby. 30-50k miles and problems.
TGG: I would keep the cobalt ss, those are fun cars for the money. ------------- [IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif"> |
Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:33pm
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Impulse, it is a fun car, and I've done a little bit of work to it already, but honestly, with the new girl, and her kid, I need 4 doors. Granted, if we break up later, and I've gotten rid of my Cobalt for her, I'll be very upset. I'm actually looking into whether or not I can afford the TDI on top of the Cobalt, as the truck is about to be paid off.
------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:48pm
meh. i am by no means an import fan so i dont really like either. but GTR> evo -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:51pm
There's not really a stock production car that will outrun it.
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:51pm
Three cars, one person. I sense some silliness here. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:56pm
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TGG, We get it, you redhead. Dont go trading in your mancard because she has a kid.
Stormy, are you refrencing the numerous war crimes throughout the years?
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:56pm
| My grandfather had a Forrester, it pulled the boat OK, handled well and was actually enjoyable to drive.The piston's needed to be replaced at around 40k miles. Go German, but I've heard mostly good things about the newer generation of American cars. I grew up riding in the back of a BMW 2002 or the tii model. Sure, it was a bit cramped in the back, but tolerable. That, or Mazdas are great, a Nissan wouldn't be a bad option either. That or a used Bimmer, which might even still be under warranty. Kids grow up quick, get a car you want. Otherwise, pick something that will hold value and sell it in the future when you can still get a decent price for it, and hope you will be better off financially by then. |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 7:03am
Yup. -------------
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Posted By: BearClaw
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 11:52am
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I have three cars on my drive. 2008 Ford Ranger Sport (30,000kms) 3.0L V6 Auto 2007 Ford Focus ZX5 (65,000kms) 2.0L I4 Auto 2006 Toyota Matrix (40,000kms) 1.6L I4 Auto Of the three only the toyota has had substantial repairs (the ECM was replaced under warrenty). Nither ford has had any problems. The Focus gets the Best fuel milage averaging 32mpg. The toyota averages 29mpg (same kinda driving). And the Ranger is obviusly the worst with a average of 19mpg (but its mostly city driving it as seen 25mpg on the highway). Of the three the Toyota has the most space for rear passengers but the diver seating is painfull for a big guy like myself. The Ford focus is much more comfy to drive and rear seat room is still good enuff for even my fat ass to get into. The ranger is really only a two seater (it has the extended cab but NO human is sitting back their) But driver and passenger accomodations are the best of the three. Of the three the Toyota is the most expensive NEW with a MSRP of $20,000cdn and is the least equiped The Ford Focus has the most options and has the same MRSP of the Toyota (slightly lower) $19,999cdn. And the Ranger is the cheapest at $18,649cdn MSRP and still has more options than the Toyota. Performance wise the Ford Focus feels quickest and goes around turns the flatest. The Toyota offers the better ride and the Ranger well it can haul stuff LOL. So haveing owned German made vehicals, american built stuff and japanese stuff. I like my Fords. They seem to be better built that the jap stuff and cheaper to boot, are WAY cheaper to buy and own than the VW i owned (used to drive a 2004 Jetta TDI). ANd they just work better for eveything i use a car for. ------------- AGD 68 Automag Azodin KPII Sheridan PGP2K Tippmann Crossover XVR Tippmann ProCarbine Tippmann SL68-II Tippmann TiPX |
Posted By: ThatGuitarGuy
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 5:28pm
Truck is used for hauling stuff, as the Cobalt won't do it. My dad has numerous rental houses, and I need a truck to haul lawn-care tools with, so I can do the lawn maintenance on the houses when there are no renters in them. The truck is used quite a bit, but at about 16mpg, the Cobalt is a much wiser choice, but if I get another car, the Cobalt turns into a track car, as I do some SCCA days, and a lot of drag-strip runs with friends. But yeah, 3 cars is probably a bad idea. Possibly get Amanda to sell her car and get the TDI. ------------- Skillet: I've never been terribly fond of the look of a vagina |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 5:39pm
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Well, it's down to two dealerships. Both can get me a Black Granite Metallic Equinox with dark interior. One is offering 4.99% financing, the other 3.59% pending a credit check. Both can get the vehicle on Wednesday. The first dealership assumes I'm considering a 3.99% offer from the third dealership that can't get me what I want. The second dealership wants my business so bad I can feel it from 20 miles away. If they don't want to budge on the price, I'll get them to offer me the best financing. I'm glad I don't sell cars. -------------
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 6:52pm
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Selling cars must really suck, I can agree with that. Good luck to you sir. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 9:48pm
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I'm actually considering a new car in the next few months when I start working full-time as my current daily driver is aging (had to do front wheel bearings on both sides this week) and my Firebird is more of a project car. Both are Pontiacs and both have held up pretty well but I'd like to get a new car that would be good as a daily driver but still has some balls when I hit the gas. Fortunately car makers have been working on their 6-cylinder engine designs and making them capable of filling that role nicely. I'm not a big Ford fan myself but the Mustang will be getting a new 6 that gets 30+ mpg and can take the car from 0-60 in something like 5.1 seconds which is damn impressive. And the Mustang is a nice looking car too. Supposedly GM has some good stuff lined up for the Camaro in that department as well so I look forward to seeing that. I'm more inclined to go with GM than Ford based on past experience so I'm hoping GM can come up with something for the Camaro to get comparable numbers to the Mustang. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 9:56pm
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the newest camaro V6 is supposed to put up the same if not better numbers as the '11 mustang. and the new z28 will be able to take on the shelby gt500
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 29 March 2010 at 10:29pm
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As of now, 2010 Camaro V6 stomps on the stang, at 305 horsepower to 210. SS has around 400 horsepower, I believe, and the current Stang GThas 311 or so.
2011 Mustang V6 has 306 horses, and GT has 411. Keep in mind, the Mustang is much lighter.
Also... The Mustang isnt powered by Chapter 11 :) -------------
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Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 12:27am
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2010 2SS Camaro 6 speed has 426hp. Id have it over any mustang...... ------------- PSN Tag: AmmoLord XBL: xXAmmoLordXx ~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~ |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 9:53am
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Then if we win the lottery ammolord, would you like to race me stock?
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/29/2011-ford-mustang-gt-first-drive/ - http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/29/2011-ford-mustang-gt-first-drive/ -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 1:32pm
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Hah! I just noticed that Impulse showed up to bash Mazda/Subaru. The reason? Because I suggested them.
I'd love for you to go read the most recent Consumer Reports profiles on Mazda and Subaru. What's that? They're two of the top rated car companies by CR? They MUST be crappy then! My car's history: 2004 Mazda 6s 5door Repair history: Replaced clutch at 70,000 miles due to heavy city driving. Nothing out of the ordinary Replaced 1 engine mount at 90,000 miles Changed oil every 5K Rotated tires every 10K 1 Set of tires at 40K 1 Set of brake pads at 40K That's it. That's all it's ever had to have done to it and I'm at 95K. You can't tell me that Mazdas "suck" with a repair/maintenance record like that. I've got less than $2000 in repairs and maintenance in it over 5 years. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 2:03pm
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You replaced a engine mount? Were you jumping it?
Changed oil every 5K? Synthetic? Have you used synthetic since the begenning?
And everything was under $2k to fix/maintain? ------------- [IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif"> |
Posted By: Snipa69
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 3:07pm
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Ill just interject here and say I leave politics out of car purchasing. ------------- http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/857/sig9ac6cs1mj.jpg - |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 9:01pm
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it took you long enough to show up tallen. i expected you to be right there once i suggested it. also to the OP, looked at a g8? plenty roomy, plenty of power
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Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 9:04pm
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I gotta ask. Why are you looking at a new vehicle? And trying to finance one? There are plenty of steals out there when you get over the 5k mark. ------------- [IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif"> |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 2:49am
LOL! Though I don't share the anti-GM sentiment, there was a degree of win in that statement worth acknowledging. It seems that the Camaro and Mustang are pretty closely matched for 2011. Numbers/performance being relatively equal, I think I'd rather drive the Camaro. Everybody and their mother (and lots of old ladies from what I've seen lately) has a Mustang of some form and that kind of kills it for me. There were a good amount of Camaros around over the years too but I don't think nearly as many people will be buying the new one. Besides, I want to get the Trans Am conversion kit so it can be like my '84 TA's son  ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 10:07am
fail. -------------
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 6:35pm
I drive an 80+ mile round trip to work and back. I wanted something with decent highway milage that is also family friendly. I haven't found any American vehicle that comes close to the Equinox's specs.
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Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 9:32pm
------------- [IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif"> |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 10:56pm
I wasn't aiming for hilarity there, obviously ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 11:21pm
no. trans am conversion kit=fail -------------
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 01 April 2010 at 6:34pm
Picked up my glorified grocery-getter last Tuesday. It's a 1LT package with Remote Start and Rear camera. Color is Black Granite Metallic.
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 01 April 2010 at 8:43pm
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Needs moar loooowwww! Haha So much wheel gap. |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 7:35am
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Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 6:27pm
Ah. Really? I thought it looked pretty nice and it'd definitely make an already (somewhat) rare car more unique. http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/phoenix-trans-am/#3 - Come on, you know it's sexy ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 6:31pm
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Ok, that's hot. ------------- 
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Posted By: slackerr26
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 6:41pm
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Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 03 April 2010 at 9:31am
And the Firebird wasn't that all along? The Firebird was always a Camaro, it just had Pontiac branding and new looks. Since Pontiac is dead now, it'll feel more Chevy than ever but it's really no different than it always was. And actually, there will be a Phoenix package offered on the Camaro that upgrades the suspension as well. It's not a new engine but it will affect performance. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |