Net Neutrality
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=185156
Printed Date: 23 November 2025 at 5:58am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Net Neutrality
Posted By: Snake6
Subject: Net Neutrality
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 5:15pm
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http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=10298403 - http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=10298403
TL:DR;
Federal Appeals court rules that the FCC does not have the authority to dictate net neutrality to ISPs.
I'm moving to Canada, there is no hope for America anymore. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 7:51pm
| What a bunch of BS... |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:17pm
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It'll go to the supreme court and Net Neutrality will be upheld. ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:18pm
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The big players will be the fastest on the net. The small companies that can't pay the ISPs get screwed. PC gaming is likely no longer going to be free if one wants to play without lag. We all sense some total screwage in the future. ------------- 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:38pm
| Go capitalism and the all mighty dollar. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:48pm
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I think I remember your avatar....
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: DeTrevni
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 9:58pm
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You know what this needs? An internet petition...
------------- Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell" 
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 2:00am
 ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 9:36am
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I'm really not worried about this getting out of hand. I think pretty much everyone important is on the net neutrality boat.
------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 10:40am
The ISP's sure as hell aren't. Comcast will be at the forefront of it, I expect some stupidity to come out of them quite quickly. Comcast is my only option for a local ISP right now too...
Oh and found this picture that nicely demonstrates the future:
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ParielIsBack wrote:Posted By: JohnnyHopper
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 10:44am
------------- My shoes of peace have steel toes. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 12:24pm
| Snake6, that chart gives me nightmares |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 12:25pm
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 1:01pm
Right, but the ISPs don't make legislation, nor do they get to vote for elected officials. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 2:09pm
Whoever has the most lobbying power makes the laws, and the ISP's have a hell of alot more lobbting power than you or me. Anyone who thinks that the politions are going to vote for the common man over big buisness really has some blinders on. -------------
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 2:10pm
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Sigh, I knew you would go there. Step bank and think for a moment: do you really think this is going to be an issue? ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 2:17pm
No, but ISPs like Comcast, AT&T and Verizon are dumping a hell of a lot of cash through the Capitol with their lobby groups. There may be a dozen technology savvy Congressmen in the entire Legislature. Pro neutral net groups like EFF don't have pocketbooks deep enough to even be heard in this discussion. Look at the chart Snake provided. It's a jest, but you don't think the telecoms wouldn't just LOVE that system? ISPs are phone and cable companies...people who have ALWAYS made their money with up-selling premium packages. "Oh, I'm sorry. HBO is only available via our $11.99 package, or $19.99 to include HD" and "for an additional $7.99 a month, you can get our 'Silver Star Package' which offers Caller ID, Call Waiting and voice mail". |
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 2:19pm
No, Congress would never create ignorant legislation that affects technology in a crazy overreaching way because lobby groups lined their pockets...you know, like the DMCA or the proposed ACTA treaty. |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 5:38pm
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I'm not saying that we shouldn't worry about the issue itself. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't worry that it will work itself out. Too many important people lose if the cable companies win on this one. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 6:24pm
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The free market will take care of this guys. You don't want the big bad government stepping in here and controlling the Internet, do you? |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 6:39pm
I think Whale's being sarcastic, but in any case I agree 100%. The free market will punish ISPs who are idiots. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 6:46pm
 |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 7:02pm
In case Bri isn't being sarcastic. We're going to have to choose the best of a few crappy options, all of which may likely have us paying more for something we used to get for no added fees. -------------
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Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 7:03pm
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I am all for keeping government out of this sort of business and letting the market decide. But for the most of the country, there simply isn't competition. In my town, my choice is Comcast or dialup. This is the case all over the country. And with the costs of rolling out infrastructure, it's not like competitors are lining up to install internet, via copper line or wireless or whatever, to places like Somerset County, PA, with a population density of something like 70/sq mile.
When it comes to government intervention, I'd much prefer giving the FCC the teeth to ensure that ISPs don't prioritize packets based on content, the crux of net neutrality, over the alternative of government operation of internet services. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 11:58pm
Free market solves all. ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Enos Shenk
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 3:01pm
Are you serious? People are RETARDED about technology. Movie companies make a solid profit re-selling people movies in new formats when they could do it themselves for free. The consumer will not object to this, it looks just the same as tiered cable TV service, they'll accept it without a word. ------------- 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 3:29pm
| Never, ever, ever count on people being even mildly intelligent enough to do the right thing. This goes triple for technology. People buy Monster cables at $150 for a $5 cable, and insist its a better picture, which is impossible. If their ISP tells them they need their premium super package plus google, they'll believe them. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 3:43pm
I sincerely hope your comment was sarcastic as well. |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 4:01pm
I agree that most people are technologically retarded and that monster cables are overrated but it's actually not impossible for better cables to improve signal quality. When some noob buys super expensive cables for his PS3 and says "WHOA DUDE, IT'S SO SUPER CLEAR NOW!", that's probably all in their mind. However, sometimes cheap cables are cheap for a reason. In most cases, you'll never be able to actually perceive the difference in signal quality, if there even is any.. Also, the average consumer will pay for prioritized service and probably won't know enough about what's going on to question anything. So if that happens, we all get the shaft. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 4:12pm
Wrong. HDMI cables transmit 1's and 0's to your set. It either transmits them, or it doesn't. There is zero difference between a $200 monster cable and a $7 dollar store cable. Nothing, zero. Here, have a read: 
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 7:36pm
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Guys, I'm 99% sure Bri was joking. If this gets knocked down at the next judicial level, I'll start sweating. But I don't think that'll happen. Although I will be the first to say that the courts are the last place to look for people with an original bone in their bodies. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 10 April 2010 at 11:20am
You're half right and I understand why you think I'm wrong but I'll elaborate. Digital signals can logically be thought of as a bunch of 1's and 0's but it's not necessarily the reality in the hardware. There is a high and a low condition in the circuit but neither has to be fully off (0 volts) or fully on (1 volts). Generally there's just a high and low voltage so maybe 0.5 volts or lower is a "0" while anything higher is a "1". Digital or analog, there is still a signal being sent over a wire which has a voltage level. The difference is in the interpretation of this signal. In analog, the exact value matters which is why even the slightest abnormality in the signal will lessen quality. Digital gets around this because the exact values don't matter, just whether or not it's higher than some threshold value. So digital signals can have some interference but as long as it doesn't push the voltage out of the proper range, you won't notice (which is why it's generally better). For example, if the threshold is 0.5v then a 0.7v signal will be interpreted as a "1" even if it was supposed to be 0.8v so the result is the same when being processed. Getting a higher quality cable (one with shielding, perhaps, or if it's twisted pair, better twisting, etc) may prevent that 0.1v loss in my previous example so there is an improvement in signal quality. However, when the signal is processed, it sees a "1" or high condition in both cases so the end result is the same and you will not see the difference. If the signal was analog then this could mean picture quality being less fuzzy or sound having less static or seeming more clear. It can help a digital signal if you have really bad cables though. Let's say the values in my example were 0.4v (low) received but the signal was supposed to be 0.5v (high), then that 0.1v will make a noticeable difference. Ironically, an analog signal would do better here as this would translate into maybe a color being a little off or a sound being less clear but it would be close. For digital, that might mean a big block in your video stream or a gap in an audio stream which you can't miss. Over short distances in most conditions though, it's unlikely that you'll have much interference or signal attenuation (another big reason not to bother with expensive cables for the 4 ft. run between digital devices at home). Over long distances, then it makes sense because signal loss can be a big issue. But even then, fiber optic is likely a better option for a lot of reasons. Also, there probably isn't much difference between the cheap cables now and the super expensive ones. The minor changes like gold plating and whatnot may be improvements but over such short distances you'll probably never see any difference, especially with digital signals. That said, it doesn't mean those gains aren't there so technically they aren't lying when they say you might get a better signal. What they don't say is that you won't be able to perceive such a small change. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level - Your turn to read TL; DR
------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 10 April 2010 at 12:03pm
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The reality is they they don't give you a better input. If the digital logic wasn't working correctly, you would be forced to buy the more expensive cable. Since that doesn't happen, I think we can safely ignore the price gougers.
------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: mod98commando
Date Posted: 10 April 2010 at 1:46pm
Not PERCEIVABLY better but quite possibly improved, even if it's very slightly.
Not necessarily. Like I said, it's not a complete all or nothing scenario. It's all or nothing for certain parts of the data stream but, to use video as an example, that doesn't mean you'll either have a perfect picture or none at all. Interference may corrupt the data that corresponds to part of the image or may cause an entire frame of video to be lost but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll see nothing on the whole screen. If you have something like IO digital cable you may notice that sometimes whatever you're watching may have odd blocks appearing temporarily. That's what digital interference looks like.
Yes, monster cable is overrated and entirely unnecessary, I'm not arguing that part at all. What I'm arguing against is the idea that there's no such thing as signal degradation with digital data streams and that you either get all of the data or none of it. I suppose it's not really important that you all understand that but it's good to know so people don't try to sell you things you don't need. ------------- oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey Me: But only if they're hungary Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 10 April 2010 at 2:09pm
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You sir, are ridiculous. I agree there is signal degradation, it's just that it's so insignificant that no one cares. Good day, sir. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |