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Mosque at Ground Zero?

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Topic: Mosque at Ground Zero?
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Subject: Mosque at Ground Zero?
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:33pm
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/anger-over-mosque-plan-for-ground-zero/story-e6frfku0-1225866534163?from=public_rss - http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/anger-over-mosque-plan-for-ground-zero/story-e6frfku0-1225866534163?from=public_rss
 
  http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/mosque_madness_at_ground_zero_OQ34EB0MWS0lXuAnQau5uL?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME - http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/mosque_madness_at_ground_zero_OQ34EB0MWS0lXuAnQau5uL?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME =
 
 
I thought it was a joke at first.
 


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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.



Replies:
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:39pm
Why.... JUST WHY?

Who's smart idea is this to open a can of worms?


Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:39pm
Only white christians died in 9/11.

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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

Only white christians died in 9/11.


troll


Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:40pm
" two blocks from the original World Trade Center site"

My care level went from "oh I suppose I can see where the anger is coming from" to
"People need to stop being nancies" when I read that in the first paragraph.


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Que pasa?




Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:41pm
BAWWWWW

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Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:41pm
lol silly New Yorkers

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I ♣ hippies.


Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:42pm
Also, I read this.

A rally against the mosque is planned for June 6, D-Day, by the human-rights group Stop Islamicization of America.

What kind of damned Human Rights Organization is against other peoples rights?



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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 8:59pm
Quote topped by a 13-story cultural center with a swimming pool


$5 says women won't be using that pool.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Quote topped by a 13-story cultural center with a swimming pool


$5 says women won't be using that pool.
Not so fast: http://www.jelbab.com/Swim-Suit.asp - http://www.jelbab.com/Swim-Suit.asp

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 9:06pm
I'll take that bet


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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 9:13pm
Yet there is no proof that picture is from a mosque.

So we shall see!

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Posted By: Monk
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 9:58pm
Do I think they should? No.
Do they have every right to? Yes.


Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:30pm
Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea. I'm talking from a safety/security standpoint purely.

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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>


Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Do I think they should? No.
Do they have every right to? Yes.


This.

Moderate Muslims building a place of worship is totally different from radical Muslims crashing planes into buildings.


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BU Engineering 2012


Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

Only white christians died in 9/11.
Yeah, that's exactly what was said.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Do I think they should? No.
Do they have every right to? Yes.


This.

Moderate Muslims building a place of worship is totally different from radical Muslims crashing planes into buildings.


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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum


Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 3:25am
http://nmvsite.com/iran-in-the-1970s-before-the-islamic-revolution - This is always mildly mindlowing


Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 7:31am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

http://nmvsite.com/iran-in-the-1970s-before-the-islamic-revolution - This is always mildly mindlowing


Interesting indeed.
Prior to the Islamic revolution, Iranian people, at least the ones here- were openly able to embrace a westernized lifestyle.

Then, things seem to go bass akwards, and revert to a culture of repression.

Should I
A. be saddened at the reversion or
B. glad that they are so thoroughly embracing their current culture?

If 'A' then I'm an idiotic American with no sensitivity
If 'B' then I'm insensitive to the masses who suffer repression under the hand of a religious driven regime whose style of rule went out the window a few hundred years ago.

Topic at hand:

This is about where i stand:
Quote "If the Japanese decided to open a cultural centre across from Pearl Harbour, that would be insensitive," Paul Sipos, a member of Community Board 1 told the New York Post’s Andrea Peyser. “If the Germans opened a Bach choral society across from Auschwitz, even after all these years, that would be an insensitive setting. I have absolutely nothing against Islam. I just think: Why there?"


As far as the 'Islamification of America' goes- Most people know that Islam=/= terrorism. The dopes that don't, DO NOT represent the rest of us. Their dumbass little protests don't get heard by anyone important, and even though they've got the right to protest anything they like, it doesn't matter to normal people who take the time to bother learning what Islam- or ANY religion for that matter- stands for.

A win/win situation in this scenario would be this:
Out of respect for the people of NY- don't build it there.
Out of respect for an entire culture- build it anywhere else- INCLUDING within the confines of NYC....that'll also serve as a thumb in the eye to the nimrod extremists that give everyone else a bad name.


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Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 10:41am
I didnt read it but I reckon alot of the anger is that the nutjobs that skelped the planes into the buildings were doing so in part for religious reasons the religion being muslim. To put a mosque there could be seen by some as a monument to the success of the attacks.

I think it shows these nutters that all they had to do was ask.


Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.



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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>


Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 10:46am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 11:03am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

When past the initial post (in which I already admitted that I misspoke) did I say this?



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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>


Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 11:43am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

Yep, I still hate NASCAR and horse races..


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Innocence proves nothing
FUAC!!!!!




Posted By: hoginds24
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 12:17pm
You guys are looking at it too deep.

As a NYer its just adding insult to injury. Manhattan is almost 23 sq miles and they choose a couple blocks from the towers. Sure they have a right to build there, but out of respect the planners should have thought this through.


Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by hoginds24 hoginds24 wrote:

You guys are looking at it too deep.

As a NYer its just adding insult to injury. Manhattan is almost 23 sq miles and they choose a couple blocks from the towers. Sure they have a right to build there, but out of respect the planners should have thought this through.

maybe they should relocate the planned mosque to Brooklyn...next door to the Hell's Angels chapter HQ for NY state. I hear H.A. is fun to have as neighbors.


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Innocence proves nothing
FUAC!!!!!




Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 1:09pm
I'm pretty sure you can build a mosque wherever you want. This is America, right?

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irc.esper.net
#paintball


Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

When past the initial post (in which I already admitted that I misspoke) did I say this?



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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo


Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by hoginds24 hoginds24 wrote:

You guys are looking at it too deep.

As a NYer its just adding insult to injury. Manhattan is almost 23 sq miles and they choose a couple blocks from the towers. Sure they have a right to build there, but out of respect the planners should have thought this through.

Learn to thick skin, Nancy.


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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

When past the initial post (in which I already admitted that I misspoke) did I say this?

Not what I was talking about.

But really, the hell does it matter?

Semantics are semantics.



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<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>


Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

When past the initial post (in which I already admitted that I misspoke) did I say this?

Not what I was talking about.

But really, the hell does it matter?

Semantics are semantics.



Definitions =/= semantics.


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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo


Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by hoginds24 hoginds24 wrote:

You guys are looking at it too deep.

As a NYer its just adding insult to injury. Manhattan is almost 23 sq miles and they choose a couple blocks from the towers. Sure they have a right to build there, but out of respect the planners should have thought this through.

Learn to thick skin, Nancy.


....and we're the ones insensitive to others.

Stop trolling, and if you're not, stop being a jackass.


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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 6:31pm
He is claiming to be insulted by a group, who had no ties, affiliation, or role in the attacks, because they are building a house of worship/cultural center.  They don't even condone the attacks in any way.  If he is truly insulted by them, it is because he wants to be insulted, not because they have done anything insulting.  He needs to man up and get over it.  

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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

He needs to man up and get over it.  




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Que pasa?




Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

He is claiming to be insulted by a group, who had no ties, affiliation, or role in the attacks, because they are building a house of worship/cultural center.  They don't even condone the attacks in any way.  If he is truly insulted by them, it is because he wants to be insulted, not because they have done anything insulting.  He needs to man up and get over it.  


While I can see both sides of the coin, I can understand where he would be coming from, and your 'man up you nancy' remarks makes you look more like a jerk than he. You are no better, and probably no smarter than the people you so blatantly criticize on here, so try 'manning up' yourself and quit being so abrasive to people who you don't see eye to eye with.

Its a breeze for someone to say 'get over it' when you didn't live through it yourself. Funny how nobody tells victims of domestic crimes to 'get over it' when their behavior is altered by a traumatic experience. But this? He is obviously a baby and needs to get over something that happened so long ago. Its no big deal right?

If I'm a bit defensive here, its because I have numerous ties to people directly effected that day. Came very close to losing an Aunt and cousin, and my wife was minutes away from becoming fatherless.To hear somebody who champions sensitivity for other cultures (which is not a bad thing) belittle someone's openly emotional attachment to the event sort of chafes me.








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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

He needs to man up and get over it.  




I'm glad you saw fit to post this. It changed my mind. Thanks peanut gallery.


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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 8:57pm
I think it is fitting, with the whole "pc" culture that Obama pushes, this type of result is perfect.
 
I think building this so close to ground zero is pretty bad, but this is America. If they own the land, they have a right to build it there.
 
 
Will there be reprocussions... yeah of course... but that too is American.


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They tremble at my name...


Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:00pm
I'm not belittling him for being openly emotional because of the event, nor am I telling him to get over the event.  I am criticizing him for directing those emotions at people who had nothing to do with it and telling him to get over the resentment he has for these people.

Domestic crimes are in no way shape or form applicable to this discussion.  


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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I think it is fitting, with the whole "pc" culture that Obama pushes, this type of result is perfect.





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Que pasa?




Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:


Domestic crimes are in no way shape or form applicable to this discussion.  


Since they negate your arguments, of course they're not.


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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:13pm
How do they negate his argument?

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Que pasa?




Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

How do they negate his argument?


mistake on my part. Not the whole argument - but the parallels sort of make the whole 'get over it' claim sound a little douchy.

 


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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

How do they negate his argument?


mistake on my part. Not the whole argument - but the parallels sort of make the whole 'get over it' claim sound a little douchy.

 


What parallels? You mean the one where telling people live in a city that got attacked 9 years ago to stop being nancies compared to telling an abused woman to stop being a nancy?

You mean that parallel that I am failing to see?


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Que pasa?




Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 10:09pm
So if a woman is raped 9 years ago, is she a Nancy for still being affected by it? By your logic, kids that suffer from abuse should be over it by the time they reach adulthood and just get over it right?

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 7:59am

You can really tell who the New Yorkers are in this thread.



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I ♣ hippies.


Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

You can really tell who the Liberals are in this thread.



Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 10:10am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So if a woman is raped 9 years ago, is she a Nancy for still being affected by it? By your logic, kids that suffer from abuse should be over it by the time they reach adulthood and just get over it right?


There it is. That's what I was trying to say.

If you don't see what we're getting at now, its because you don't want to.




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Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 11:33am

I understand what your getting at, but the scenarios you use to argue against eville are laughable at best.






Sort of like my spelling skills


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I ♣ hippies.


Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

I understand what your getting at, but the scenarios you use to argue against eville are laughable at best.



Why though?


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Posted By: Tical3.0
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 11:54am

How does building a Mosque for Muslims(WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11)  2 blocks away or whatever From Ground Zero Affect people that died and had people die(R.I.P) in the WTC bombings.

Now if a Islamic Terrorist Training camp was being built there I could understand.

Thats like the girl being raped by (lets just say for the sake of the argument) a Black man being all pissy about Obama moving into a house 3 houses down.


Whoever is honestly that disturbed about a place of worship being erected a couple blocks away from GZ needs to grow up and find another reason to hate on Easterners.





-Thats just the way I see things.


Edit- The Girl has a right to be angry for being raped, But she should only be angry at that one guy not a hole race.


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I ♣ hippies.


Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Though I think it's a good idea to support the idea that Muslim =/= terrorist, the fact that this has generated such outrage shows that too many people are still way too racist for this to be a good idea.




Islam isn't a race.

You know what I meant, shut up.

And racism still applies.

So essentially, you are saying anyone that denounces a differing religion is a racist? I guess we are a world of racists then.

When past the initial post (in which I already admitted that I misspoke) did I say this?

Not what I was talking about.

But really, the hell does it matter?

Semantics are semantics.



Definitions =/= semantics.
Islamaphobia actually. Hating Arabs/Persians/etc would be racist.


Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So if a woman is raped 9 years ago, is she a Nancy for still being affected by it? By your logic, kids that suffer from abuse should be over it by the time they reach adulthood and just get over it right?

No, that is not by my logic, that is by Reb's logic.  My argument very clearly has nothing to do with what you guys are talking about.  Re-read it.  


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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

You can really tell who the Liberals are in this thread.

Because only liberals think that people should be free to their own religions and worship, no matter where they are.

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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum


Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So if a woman is raped 9 years ago, is she a Nancy for still being affected by it? By your logic, kids that suffer from abuse should be over it by the time they reach adulthood and just get over it right?


lol no?

As I wouldn't be calling anyone who was actually in the buildings a nancy.

The people I am calling nancies are silly New Yorkers who are like OMG


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Que pasa?




Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 7:03am
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So if a woman is raped 9 years ago, is she a Nancy for still being affected by it? By your logic, kids that suffer from abuse should be over it by the time they reach adulthood and just get over it right?


lol no?

As I wouldn't be calling anyone who was actually in the buildings a nancy.

The people I am calling nancies are silly New Yorkers who are like OMG
Let's try again then. So you are saying the husband of a woman that was raped while they were married 9 years ago is a Nancy if he is still affected by it?  By your logic, parents of kids that were molested by priests should simply get over it once the kids reach adulthood and just get over it? They shouldn't still be concerned by Father O'Doul seems to be spendng an awful lot of time with their grandson?
 
As far as the Mosque being a place of worship, there is a lot of gray area. Where do you think the people that are recruited and exposed to extremism first exposed at? Burger King? Pizza Hut? Starbucks? No, they are most likely recruited at Mosques where people of a like mind gather. I have also read many times where "moderate" public Muslims still donate to extremist groups. Kind of like closet Nazis. It's not uncommon. Do you think they are going to inspect and research every single donation that comes in to assure that the money isn't coming from Hezbollah, Al Queda, etc or people involved with it? How do you know? I am not saying that all Muslims are terrorists, but there seems to be a strong sense of kinship within the religion even for those on the fringes of it.
 
 


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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 1:29pm
Again, that is not what I am saying at all, re-read it.  Maybe you will get it right this time.

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Posted By: You Wont See Me
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 1:55pm
Or, you know, you could build upon your argument or try to say it in a different way rather than just trying to insult peoples intelligence. You haven't said anything meaningful on this page.

I understand the point your trying to make is that these aren't the even remotely the same people, but do more for your argument than "go back and reread".


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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by You Wont See Me You Wont See Me wrote:

Or, you know, you could build upon your argument or try to say it in a different way rather than just trying to insult peoples intelligence. You haven't said anything meaningful on this page.

I understand the point your trying to make is that these aren't the even remotely the same people, but do more for your argument than "go back and reread".

You seemed to get it just fine.


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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I'm not belittling him for being openly emotional because of the event, nor am I telling him to get over the event (9/11).  I am criticizing him for directing those emotions at people who had nothing to do with it and telling him to get over the resentment he has for these people(the ones building the mosque).


I don't know how much more clear I can be than that. 


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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

 
As far as the Mosque being a place of worship, there is a lot of gray area. Where do you think the people that are recruited and exposed to extremism first exposed at? Burger King? Pizza Hut? Starbucks? No, they are most likely recruited at Mosques where people of a like mind gather. I have also read many times where "moderate" public Muslims still donate to extremist groups. Kind of like closet Nazis. It's not uncommon. Do you think they are going to inspect and research every single donation that comes in to assure that the money isn't coming from Hezbollah, Al Queda, etc or people involved with it? How do you know? I am not saying that all Muslims are terrorists, but there seems to be a strong sense of kinship within the religion even for those on the fringes of it.
 
 
So we should stop building places of worship all together, apparently. Not just Mosque's but churches as well. After all, where do you think extremist Christians grow their views? Of course, extremists in any religion are rare, but they do happen, like you said, theres a lot of gray area. I'm sure it offends some people when churches spring up near them, despite the church having every right to built there. But why stop at churches? Convents, Monasteries, whatever Buddhists have, etc. After all, sure - they may be "places of worship" but you never know when they'll recruit a few of the crazies. Just because they have the right to build and worship wherever they want doesn't mean we should actually allow them to do it! We must fear monger instead! And claim that those facilities are actually terrorist recruiting operations.
 
Look, I'm not saying I don't understand the sentiment wondering, "Why there?" I do. But they also have the right to build it there if they so choose. Like scotchy said, is it a sign of, "We blew up your buildings! Now here we are!!!"? No, only if you choose to look at it like that. It's just as easily a sign of, "You were always welcome in the United States, a country built upon freedom, including religious. All you ever had to do was ask."
 
I am however, seriously craving pizza hut right now - thanks to you.


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"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


Forum Vice President

RIP T&O Forum


Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 3:01pm
There are some really bad analogies going on in this thread. 


Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

There are some really bad analogies going on in this thread. 


There's also some pretty piss poor defense of that claim in here too.

Not from you of course, as a newcomer to the discussion- but in general.

Half of the reason I bothered to argue at all is because of the lofty jackassery of some of the participants. As someone who can see both sides of the coin from the get-go, even as a New Yorker, at first I didn't feel like I needed to bother presenting my input at all. But when you've got people claiming that anyone who still has emotional wounds from the events of 9 years ago is a 'Nancy' - I don't think that's fair at all. My problem isn't with the Mosque. Hell, its NOT at the ground zero site. If they were planning on building a Cathedral on that exact site, I'd have a problem with that too. - Since that's not the issue, I don't care.

When you get down to the very bottom of things, one interpretation of the pillars of Islam was what initiated the events in the first place. Does that mean that everyone who practices its teachings are responsible? Of course not. Nobody (in their right mind) is saying that. But to come back and say that Islam itself had nothing to do with the attacks is equally as silly. And it is because of that, that I can understand why this is a sore subject for people who watched a significant part of their lives blasted to smithereens in the name of said Islam and its teachings (as interpreted by one faction)




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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 4:49pm
The terrorists are winning it seems.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I'm not belittling him for being openly emotional because of the event,  I am criticizing him for directing those emotions at people who had nothing to do with it and telling him to get over the resentment he has for these people(the ones building the mosque).
  I think calling someone a "Nancy" is in fact an attempt to belittle them.
 
And you are criticizing someone for having strong feelings towards people that may or may not be of like mind to the individuals that flew airplanes into buildings and killed 3k+ innocent people. Perhaps the individuals behind the building of the mosque have no affilitation. Maybe they do, how does anyone truly know where 100% of the funding comes from? But you should be able to empathize with people that may still feel strongly about this, especially those directly affected. Anyone arguing otherwise is either obtuse or trolling.
 
 


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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

The terrorists are winning it seems.
Oddly enough, I had the same thought yesterday while mowing my yard. The terrorists must be sitting back laughing while Americans are arguing for building a mosque on or near what should be considered sacred ground and calling those that are against it a bunch of Nancys.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.


Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 5:00pm
Speaking of the sacred ground there, what exactly have we done with it?


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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

The terrorists are winning it seems.
Oddly enough, I had the same thought yesterday while mowing my yard. The terrorists must be sitting back laughing while Americans are arguing for building a mosque on or near what should be considered sacred ground and calling those that are against it a bunch of Nancys.


That's a pretty accurate observation.


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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I'm not belittling him for being openly emotional because of the event,  I am criticizing him for directing those emotions at people who had nothing to do with it and telling him to get over the resentment he has for these people(the ones building the mosque).
  I think calling someone a "Nancy" is in fact an attempt to belittle them.

Yes, it is.  I never claimed it wasn't.  What I did claim, that you have so far epically failed to comprehend and that I have repeated several times, is that it wasn't for the reason you and Reb keep proclaiming.  

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

 
And you are criticizing someone for having strong feelings towards people that may or may not be of like mind to the individuals that flew airplanes into buildings and killed 3k+ innocent people. Perhaps the individuals behind the building of the mosque have no affilitation. Maybe they do, how does anyone truly know where 100% of the funding comes from? But you should be able to empathize with people that may still feel strongly about this, especially those directly affected. Anyone arguing otherwise is either obtuse or trolling.

Wow.  They either are or they aren't.  Brilliant observation there Glenn Beck.  For all we know you may be of like mind to the individuals that flew airplanes into buildings and killed 3k+ innocent people, or maybe you aren't.  Perhaps you have no affiliation, maybe you do, how does anyone know 100% of your funding comes from?

I am criticizing people for hearing the word "Islam" and automatically thinking they are terrorists out to kill whitey.   That is something that I, along with anyone else who isn't completely retarded should, will never empathize with.  

Originally posted by nytimes nytimes wrote:

The location was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims who bought the building in July. A presence so close to the World Trade Center, “where a piece of the wreckage fell,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the cleric leading the project, “sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11.”

“We want to push back against the extremists,” added Imam Feisal, 61.

Although organizers have sought to avoid publicizing their project because they say plans are too preliminary, it has drawn early encouragement from city officials and the surrounding neighborhood.

Mayor  http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/michael_r_bloomberg/index.html?inline=nyt-per - Michael R. Bloomberg  said through a spokesman that Imam Feisal told him of the project last September at a celebration to observe the end of Ramadan. As for whether Mr. Bloomberg supported it, the spokesman, Andrew Brent, said, “If it’s legal, the building owners have a right to do what they want.”

The mayor’s director of the  http://www.nyc.gov/html/imm/html/home/home.shtml - Office of Immigrant Affairs , Fatima Shama, went further. “We as New York Muslims have as much of a commitment to rebuilding New York as anybody,” Ms. Shama said. Imam Feisal’s wife, Daisy Khan, serves on an advisory team for the  http://www.national911memorial.org/site/PageServer?pagename=New_Home - National September 11 Memorial and Museum , and Lynn Rasic, a spokeswoman for the memorial, said, “The idea of a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds is positive.”

Those who have worked with him say if anyone could pull off what many regard to be a delicate project, it would be Imam Feisal, whom they described as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.

“He subscribes to my credo: ‘Live and let live,’ ” said Rabbi Arthur Schneier, spiritual leader of  http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/p/park_east_synagogue/index.html?inline=nyt-org - Park East Synagogue  on East 67th Street.

As a Sufi, Imam Feisal follows a path of Islam focused more on spiritual wisdom than on strict ritual, and as a bridge builder, he is sometimes focused more on cultivating relations with those outside his faith than within it.

But though the imam is adamant about what his intentions for the site are, there is anxiety among those involved or familiar with the project that it could very well become a target for anti-Muslim attacks.

Joan Brown Campbell, director of the department of religion at the  http://www.ciweb.org/ - Chautauqua Institution  in upstate New York and former general secretary of the  http://www.ncccusa.org/ - National Council of Churches of Christ U.S.A. , who is a supporter of Imam Feisal, acknowledged the possibility of a backlash from those opposed to a Muslim presence at ground zero.

But, she added: “Building so close is owning the tragedy. It’s a way of saying: ‘This is something done by people who call themselves Muslims. We want to be here to repair the breach, as the Bible says.’ ”

The  http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org - F.B.I.  said Imam Feisal had helped agents reach out to the Muslim population after Sept. 11. “We’ve had positive interactions with him in the past,” said an agency spokesman, Richard Kolk. Alice Hoagland of Las Gatos, Calif., whose son, Mark Bingham, was killed in the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, said, “It’s quite a bold step buying a piece of land adjacent to ground zero,” but she said she considered plans for the site “a noble effort.”

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

 But when you've got people claiming that anyone who still has emotional wounds from the events of 9 years ago is a 'Nancy' 



Seriously, why is it so hard to read my posts?  I never said that, you did.  


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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:


Seriously, why is it so hard to read my posts?  I never said that, you did.  


Really?

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by hoginds24 hoginds24 wrote:

You guys are looking at it too deep.

As a NYer its just adding insult to injury. Manhattan is almost 23 sq miles and they choose a couple blocks from the towers. Sure they have a right to build there, but out of respect the planners should have thought this through.

Learn to thick skin, Nancy.


hoginds CLEARLY acknowledged the right to build on whatever land they can purchase. He very mildly stated that the location choice on the part of the planners could be disrespectful.

your usage of the term here is exactly in line with what oldpbnoob and I are chastising you for. backpedal and dance around all you like, but if you're attacking hog for such a mild comment, I've got very little sympathy for you when you play the 'poor, misunderstood me' card.




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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 7:56pm
I've got little patience for mods who go to near flaming extremes over a joke.

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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

I've got little patience for mods who go to near flaming extremes over a joke.


Man up and get over it.


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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:


Seriously, why is it so hard to read my posts?  I never said that, you did.  


Really?

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by hoginds24 hoginds24 wrote:

You guys are looking at it too deep.

As a NYer its just adding insult to injury. Manhattan is almost 23 sq miles and they choose a couple blocks from the towers. Sure they have a right to build there, but out of respect the planners should have thought this through.

Learn to thick skin, Nancy.


hoginds CLEARLY acknowledged the right to build on whatever land they can purchase. He very mildly stated that the location choice on the part of the planners could be disrespectful.

your usage of the term here is exactly in line with what oldpbnoob and I are chastising you for. backpedal and dance around all you like, but if you're attacking hog for such a mild comment, I've got very little sympathy for you when you play the 'poor, misunderstood me' card.



"Learn to thick skin, Nancy." in the context that I said it does not equal "anyone who still has emotional wounds from the events of 9 years ago is a 'Nancy' "

Your lack of reading comprehension is astounding. 


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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 8:13pm
If you say so. Not gonna bang my head over the wall on this one anymore.

Exercises in futility make my head hurt.


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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 8:46pm
Believe me, I know.

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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 9:06pm
This thread is pure lol.

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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 16 May 2010 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

I've got little patience for mods who go to near flaming extremes over a joke.


Man up and get over it.

Iron knee.


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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 17 May 2010 at 12:15am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

And you are criticizing someone for having strong feelings towards people that may or may not be of like mind to the individuals that flew airplanes into buildings and killed 3k+ innocent people. 
Too be fair, Jerry O'Tool of the 83rd floor of the westeastern tower owed me $3 and never paid me back, so he deserved it.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.


Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 17 May 2010 at 11:00am
So the guy who is spearheading (yes, that is a pun) this mosk (yeah, that is how we speel it in 'merica)
 
 
is the same guy who said this on CNN after 9/11.
 
“U.S. policies were an accessory to the crime that happened. We [the U.S.] have been an accessory to a lot of innocent lives dying in the world. Osama bin Laden was made in the USA.”
 
 
More can be found not in the NYT or any other liberal fishwrap... But, as usual big government...
 
http://biggovernment.com/bschaeffer/2010/05/16/new-mosque-just-steps-to-ground-zero/ - http://biggovernment.com/bschaeffer/2010/05/16/new-mosque-just-steps-to-ground-zero/
 
" Elsewhere, Rauf has stated that terrorism will end only when the West acknowledges the harm it has done to Muslims. (Do not expect his gratitude on behalf of the millions of Muslims saved from genocide in the Balkans thanks to Western actions while the Muslim world did nothing.) It is also his historically amnesiatic contention that it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians. I guess the gruesome  slaughters of civilians in the wake of centuries of steady Islamic conquests – see Constantinople 1453 – was our doing too. But radicalism and ignorance tend to go hand in hand. And even granting him a reference to Allied bombing raids of cities in WW2, I do not recall those USAAF and RAF pilots dropping bombs in the name of Jesus Christ…rather in the hopes of accelerating the conclusion of a world war and an end to the killing they did not start.

To understand the origin of Rauf’s one-sided history one need go back just one branch on his family tree. Again, do not expect help from the mainstream media. After all it’s not like he’s a Catholic. His father, Mohammed, came out of the Muslim Brotherhood along with Ayman al-Zawahiri, the second man of al Qaeda. The Muslim Brotherhood is the oldest Islamic terrorist organization in the world. Mohammed left Kuwait where Faisal was born and then came to the United States in 1965 and built an Islamic center in Manhattan funded by 49 Muslim countries. Perhaps this is guilt by association. But becoming an imam who blames the West as much as terrorists for planes flying into buildings is hardly evidence of an apple falling far from the Jihadist tree.

And the story behind the source of Rauf’s capital is murky at best. Rauf reportedly bought the property for $4.5 million in cash. Where did that money come from? Some say unidentified sources in Saudi Arabia and Muslim-ruled Malaysia but no one as of this writing knows for sure. And he plans to invest as much as $150 million into the facility. Source of funds? Crickets.

Concerns over what will be taught in the new center, and financed by whom aside, the core issue of this story remains: WHY THERE? Why a stone’s throw from the place where Muslim fanatics screaming “Allahu Akhbar” killed 2700 innocent civilians who bore them no ill in one fell swoop? It is ultimately about the symbolism, which is an all important aspect of Middle Eastern culture. And the symbolism of the location of this mosque is not lost on those who view Europe as conquered infidel lands to be re-colonized by the righteous followers of Allah and who see the USA as the great impediment to their global caliphate. This as a test of our will. Subtle perhaps. And maybe not even a conscious attempt on the part of some who support it. There are surely even those who may be legitimate in their concerns and see the structure as an offering to bridge the divide. But for the jihadists of the world, and their millions of silent apologists, if not outright accomplices, if such a structure, near such a hallowed place, after so short a time faces no opposition than it is yet more proof that the West is weak and even the USA is becoming a defanged cobra. New flash: they’re right."

 
 
 
So to pretend that this isn't a memorial built to the jihadists who killed women and children civilians during their so called "war" against us is just that, pretending.
 
Something this administration and our current political climate do quite well...
 
As clearly articulated by Eric Holder last week...
 
 
http://biggovernment.com/sparker/2010/05/16/who-is-governing-america/ - http://biggovernment.com/sparker/2010/05/16/who-is-governing-america/
 
"Regarding the perpetrators in the last three terror attacks (two, thank God, unsuccessful) on our homeland (Fort Hood, the Christmas day bomber, and the Times Square bomber), Smith asked our Attorney General “Do you feel these individuals…might have been incited to take the actions they did because of radical Islam?”

Holder feigned to not understand.   “ Because of…?”

Smith:  “Because of radical Islam.”

Holder: “There are a variety of reasons people do these things.”

Smith re-worded the same question and re-asked it six times, with Holder refusing to acknowledge what is as obvious as the fact that I am typing these words and you are reading them.  That every major incident of terror of recent years has been performed by Muslims and that all of them associate their particular theology with their acts of terror.

The real question today is who is governing America and what exactly is the agenda of those who sit in the seat of power of our own country?

It is no wonder that most Americans are squirming around with the most profound sense of uneasiness.  When the chief law enforcement officer of the United States refuses to acknowledge what is clear and true – that those perpetrating terror today are uniformly Muslim and motivated by Islamic theology of one form or another – how in the world can we possibly feel safe?

Let’s turn back to the now famous “Declaration of the World Islamic Front for Jihad against the Jews and the Crusaders” signed by Osama bin Ladin and published in an Arabic newspaper in London in 1998.

After a long diatribe about the evil perpetrated by the “Crusader-Jewish alliance” on the Arab world, the declaration concludes:

“By God’s leave, we call on every Muslim who believes in God and hopes for reward to obey God’s command to kill the Americans and plunder their possessions wherever he finds them and whenever he can. Likewise we call on the Muslim ulema and leaders and youth and soldiers to launch attacks against the armies of the American devils and against those who are allied with them from among the helpers of Satan.”

What’s not clear here?

A few years later, 19 Muslims hijacked three American airplanes and used them as suicide weapons which killed thousands of American citizens."

 


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They tremble at my name...



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