Upgrades and Customizing - Milsim 98 Custom

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Milsim 98 Custom

Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Upgrades and Customizing
Forum Description: Trick it out!
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=186602
Printed Date: 21 November 2025 at 8:19am
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Topic: Milsim 98 Custom

Posted By: tarrguy57
Subject: Milsim 98 Custom
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 1:42am

noob here cuz i can't find help anywhere and then it hit me...i'm not on tippmann forums! so heres the deal: i recently picked up a brand new-used Tippmann 98 Custom Pro A.C.T. (guy used it maybe 5 times lightly over just a few months!) already came with a rocket cock, double trigger, remote line and a proto barrel plus i already had a few HPA tanks from my last 98 (good old tRUSTy lol). now for the part where i need help. I want to make it look like a M4/M16 rifle without breaking the bank (don't tell me, i already know, its gonna be tough. Pinch

) so for starters i've already ordered a Tapco folding stock because everyone has a Car-15/miscellaneous brand collapsible stock plus it will be nice to either have the added support or swing it out of the way for better maneuverability. so far for now i just want to get a barrel and sight rail but would like opinions on a under barrel hand grip and magazine (not an expansion chamber one cuz i switch between HPA and CO2 depending on how long the game is gonna be.) so far i'm looking at a BT adjustable sight rail and a BT-16 barrel. my main concern is performance on the barrel cuz a M16 look-alike runs $35-150! of course any fool could tell that one of the more expensive barrels would be better but i'm a college kid on a budget Ouch

. ok thats it. sorry for it being so long. any help would be awesome! Thumbs Up

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Replies:

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 9:54am

Sell the set up you have and buy a Project Salvo or Alpha Black with an E-grip. Has the looks you are wanting out of the box.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 10:46am

^^^ That.

tarrguy57 wrote:

noob here cuz i can't find help anywhere and then it hit me...i'm not on tippmann forums! so heres the deal: i recently picked up a brand new-used Tippmann 98 Custom Pro A.C.T. (guy used it maybe 5 times lightly over just a few months!) already came with a rocket cock, double trigger,

I've never seen an M4/M16 with a double trigger so I'm going to work off the assumption that you aren't going for an exact replica. (Which is good--more on this later.)

remote line and a proto barrel plus i already had a few HPA tanks from my last 98 (good old tRUSTy lol). now for the part where i need help. I want to make it look like a M4/M16 rifle without breaking the bank (don't tell me, i already know, its gonna be tough. Pinch

)

As long as you understand it will never look that much like an M4/M16 because the basic body shape of the 98 series just doesn't lend itself to this type of mod. (Which is why it is good that you aren't going for an exact replica.)

so for starters i've already ordered a Tapco folding stock

M16/M4s do not come with folding stocks; I am beginning to get the idea that you want a mil-sim marker but are not as set on making it look like an M4/M16 as you might think you are.

because everyone has a Car-15/miscellaneous brand collapsible stock plus it will be nice to either have the added support or swing it out of the way for better maneuverability.

I agree here, I much prefer folding stocks to collapsible stocks.

so far for now i just want to get a barrel and sight rail

You really are probably not going to find these within the price range you desire, at least not new. You could try looking for one of the kits Armson used to make which included a (smooth-bore) barrel, M4-style front shroud and front sight. At one time you could pick these up fairly inexpensively because the barrel had a reputation for breaking paint. This turned out to be due (at least in my case) to rough edges around the "flash suppressor" porting at the business end of the barrel. A little careful work with a Dremel made the breakage issue go away and the barrel itself, being an Armson, was quite accurate. I finally got rid of the set-up just because it didn't look enough like an M4 to be. (Because of the 98 series body it was based on.)

but would like opinions on a under barrel hand grip and magazine

The desire for a handgrip means that you need a front shroud with a rail system; this is something the Armson kits didn't have. It also means that you are definitely looking at the more expensive kits. (This would be a reason to consider a Project Salvo instead of a 98. Additionally, I have yet to see an M4/M16 magazine kit that works/looks good with the 98 series body.

(not an expansion chamber one cuz i switch between HPA and CO2 depending on how long the game is gonna be.)

I would recommend just running one or the other. That way you don't have to rechrono when switching propellant types. Additionally, most expansion chambers will not interfere with compressed air delivery.

so far i'm looking at a BT adjustable sight rail and a BT-16 barrel.

Unless they've redesigned them, the BT rails are not proportioned the same as an actual M16 site rail. (They are shorter and, in my opinion, just don't look right.) Keep in mind however that anything is better than a CRap4 product.

my main concern is performance on the barrel cuz a M16 look-alike runs $35-150! of course any fool could tell that one of the more expensive barrels would be better

Expensive does not necessarily equate to better performance.

but i'm a college kid on a budget Ouch

. ok thats it. sorry for it being so long. any help would be awesome! Thumbs Up

The products you've mentioned do not generally support a mod that will produce a replica M4/M16. My suggestion would be to step back from the project for a bit and determine what it is you really want to end up with. (I.e. do you want a realistic looking mil-sim marker or just something that is cool and kind of military looking.) Once you do this, update the post and with the updated information we can probably provide better assistance here.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 11:01am

Mack must have time on his hands today .

As an addendum, Armson products are still made: http://www.proteamdirect.com/model98.html - http://www.proteamdirect.com/model98.html

Unless you picked the 98 up for next to nothing, you are going to spend more money trying to make it look like a 1/2 assed attempt at an M4/M16 than you would on an AB/PS out of the box with an E-grip.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 12:00pm

i've seen plenty of m98 m16s with double triggers/fang triggers it doesn't effect looks at all, there are plenty of other things that give it away as not real more than the double trigger, plus it was already on the gun when i bought it and i like the feel of it. i did get my current 98 for next to nothing. no i'm not looking for an exact replica, the few "exact" replicas i've seen are over the top and just look dumb anyway. the 98 is just fine for making it into a M16 i see them all the time. I don't want an Alpha Black because then i'm stuck with just that style and i don't know anyone who has one and what they think of it. a Project Salvo looks nothing like an M16, looks more like an old machine gun than an assault rifle. E-Grip is too expensive and isn't worth the money if i don't get a cyclone or force feed which i'm not going to do plus if i ever set it up for bottom feed with a mag an e-grip will be worthless. i know that a folding stock isn't necessarily stock M16 (i've seen a few here and there) but everyone has a collapsible stock and i don't like how they look or feel. just need a few opinions on different m16-look-alike barrels and sights

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 12:25pm

Good luck setting up the 98 for a bottom feed. I have yet to see it done well.

You seem to have a handle on what you want to do, best of luck with it.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 1:00pm

tarrguy57 wrote:

i've seen plenty of m98 m16s with double triggers/fang triggers

I'm assuming you mean you've seen plenty of modified paintball markers that look like M16/M4s with double triggers

it doesn't effect looks at all,

That would be a matter of opinion. If I was going to mil-sim up a marker I would be bothered by it because if if doesn't look real there is really no point (for me) to put any mil-sim stuff on it.

there are plenty of other things that give it away as not real more than the double trigger, plus it was already on the gun when i bought it and i like the feel of it. i did get my current 98 for next to nothing. no i'm not looking for an exact replica, the few "exact" replicas i've seen are over the top and just look dumb

Again, a matter of opinion. While I am not a big fan of mil-sim markers (at least for looks reasons) I think the one's that look like the real things are much cooler than the ones that look like someone bought a few of the cheapest parts they could find and stuck them on the marker randomly.

anyway. the 98 is just fine for making it into a M16 i see them all the time.

As do I. But, being a purist, and having carried one for years, I am bothered by the extra room between the trigger and front shroud. (On a real M16/M4 there is just enough room for the magazine in between these points; on the 98 based mil-sim markers there is quite a bit of extra room. The fact the Alpha Black and Salvo are based of 98 internals is why they have the extra space there as well. But, at least they made it more aesthetically pleasing on these.)

I don't want an Alpha Black because then i'm stuck with just that style

Good point. While they are (in my opinion) the best looking of the M16/M4 mil-sim markers they do not have the adaptability of most other Tippmanns for different looks.

and i don't know anyone who has one and what they think of it.

They have gotten very good reviews. After all, they are essentially basic 98 internals in a different body. (I believe there are some differences in the trigger group but other than that the parts are interchangeable.)

a Project Salvo looks nothing like an M16, looks more like an old machine gun than an assault rifle.

Actually it looks like an M4 with the optional rail interface system that is used by certain special forces.

E-Grip is too expensive and isn't worth the money if i don't get a cyclone or force feed which i'm not going to do plus if i ever set it up for bottom feed with a mag

Very curious on how you plan on doing this.

an e-grip will be worthless. i know that a folding stock isn't necessarily stock M16 (i've seen a few here and there)

Curious about this as well. While you may have seen a folding stock on a mil-sim marker that was modeled after the M16/M4, on something airsoft related or even on a carbine that had similar looks, I doubt you ever say a folding stock on an actual M16/M4. The buffer tube for the AR-based rifles extends back into the stock which renders them incapable of accepting a folding stock. (There were rumors that HK was working on something for their 416 which would allow the stock to fold like the G36 stock, but one problem with that was using the G36 with the stock folded significantly reduces operational life of the weapon.)

but everyone has a collapsible stock and i don't like how they look or feel.

Definitely agree there. I much prefer the folding stocks. With the one by JCS currently being my favorite.

just need a few opinions on different m16-look-alike barrels and sights

The bad news is that many of the barrels that come with the front shroud and sights are not much better than the stock barrel. (The companies that sell them figure that since it is all about looks they can decrease the price by putting less work into the actual barrel. Now, I'm not saying their necessarily bad, I'm just saying that there are many less expensive barrel options out there which will provide better performance.)

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 5:37pm

Mack wrote:

yes thats what m98 means: model 98

it doesn't effect looks at all,

That would be a matter of opinion. If I was going to mil-sim up a marker I would be bothered by it because if if doesn't look real there is really no point (for me) to put any mil-sim stuff on it.

when you hold the gun you could barely tell the difference

there are plenty of other things that give it away as not real more than the double trigger, plus it was already on the gun when i bought it and i like the feel of it. i did get my current 98 for next to nothing. no i'm not looking for an exact replica, the few "exact" replicas i've seen are over the top and just look dumb

Again, a matter of opinion. While I am not a big fan of mil-sim markers (at least for looks reasons) I think the one's that look like the real things are much cooler than the ones that look like someone bought a few of the cheapest parts they could find and stuck them on the marker randomly.

when i say there are other things that make it look less real than the double trigger would be the bottom line, hopper feed, hopper, giant ass cable running off the gun (unless of course you are using a small tank within the stock) and IMO a gun with a giant scope, sight rail, RIS rail, stock, mag, m16 barrel shroud, RIS rails on the shroud, folding hand grip on the shroud, flashlight, laser, front sight, grenade launcher, bipod, sling, do i need to go on? it just looks dumb cuz no soldier would ever had a gun look like that. and i'm not sticking stuff on it randomly and there is nothing wrong with cheap so long as it doesn't hinder performance

anyway. the 98 is just fine for making it into a M16 i see them all the time.

As do I. But, being a purist, and having carried one for years, I am bothered by the extra room between the trigger and front shroud. (On a real M16/M4 there is just enough room for the magazine in between these points; on the 98 based mil-sim markers there is quite a bit of extra room. The fact the Alpha Black and Salvo are based of 98 internals is why they have the extra space there as well. But, at least they made it more aesthetically pleasing on these.)

well i'm 6'3 long and gangly so the extra "space" is nice

I don't want an Alpha Black because then i'm stuck with just that style

Good point. While they are (in my opinion) the best looking of the M16/M4 mil-sim markers they do not have the adaptability of most other Tippmanns for different looks.

and i don't know anyone who has one and what they think of it.

They have gotten very good reviews. After all, they are essentially basic 98 internals in a different body. (I believe there are some differences in the trigger group but other than that the parts are interchangeable.)

reviews and knowing someone with a valid opinion are completely different. majority of the reviews i've read (different tippmann sites, plenty of pb forums, and amazon, i haven't heard one bad review, no gun is that good. people were consistently giving both PS and AB 5 stars maybe 4 based on price and shipping.) plus none of the shops near me will let me test the gun before i use it and they all have zero return policies on guns even if it was broken out of the box

a Project Salvo looks nothing like an M16, looks more like an old machine gun than an assault rifle.

Actually it looks like an M4 with the optional rail interface system that is used by certain special forces.

IMO it looks weird and wouldn't be comfortable to hold the shroud.

E-Grip is too expensive and isn't worth the money if i don't get a cyclone or force feed which i'm not going to do plus if i ever set it up for bottom feed with a mag

Very curious on how you plan on doing this.

never seen it done? i'm not exactly sure how it works but it involves milling the bottom of the marker and using a spring loaded mag (generally holds 30 balls but i've heard of mags holding 60 as well) and if/when i get to this, an e-grip would be rendered useless except maybe for burst mode because in a milsim match you don't go in with pods (at least the few i've been to you don't, only 30 round mags) so you need to conserve and pick your shots. the basic premise of an E-grip is more paint in a smaller amount of time. that'd be great if i wanted to make maybe a SAW or some other machine gun (hopefully next project, either gotta make it myself or widen my budget)

an e-grip will be worthless. i know that a folding stock isn't necessarily stock M16 (i've seen a few here and there)

Curious about this as well. While you may have seen a folding stock on a mil-sim marker that was modeled after the M16/M4, on something airsoft related or even on a carbine that had similar looks, I doubt you ever say a folding stock on an actual M16/M4. The buffer tube for the AR-based rifles extends back into the stock which renders them incapable of accepting a folding stock. (There were rumors that HK was working on something for their 416 which would allow the stock to fold like the G36 stock, but one problem with that was using the G36 with the stock folded significantly reduces operational life of the weapon.)

yes i know all that i was talking about markers, thats part of the reason i bought a folding stock because i've seen hundreds of people with collapsible stocks even if they aren't going the milsim route. i have seen max 5 people with folding stocks on milsim m98s

but everyone has a collapsible stock and i don't like how they look or feel.

Definitely agree there. I much prefer the folding stocks. With the one by JCS currently being my favorite.

saw that but couldn't find one cheap enough. i saw a tapco and could actually find people who could give a decent review on it. plus i've used a tapco stock on a real AK-47 and found it very comfortable

just need a few opinions on different m16-look-alike barrels and sights

The bad news is that many of the barrels that come with the front shroud and sights are not much better than the stock barrel. (The companies that sell them figure that since it is all about looks they can decrease the price by putting less work into the actual barrel. Now, I'm not saying their necessarily bad, I'm just saying that there are many less expensive barrel options out there which will provide better performance.)

actually i've heard that most increase performance (not much, most say they don't notice much more than 10%) and i know that i could get a really nice performance most likely with better performance and accuracy than buying a M16-look-alike but i'm going the milsim route and that means sacrificing performance (right now, i know i can buy a much better one if i have the $$$ but i don't so thats my option) plus i've heard that alot of them can come apart and swap the barrel.

now what i'm curious about is how you have such an opinion on this yet from what i've read you're not really into milsim.

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Evil Elvis
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 6:48pm

I suggest if your looking for a Tactical & Practical Approach to MILSIM that you hit Up Ebay or the Buy/Sell/Trade boards of PBN or other Forums where players who impulse buy mods go to dump them off on the market.

Best of Luck.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 7:03pm

Good to see the noob knows better than Mack who has been playing since Christ was in diapers.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 8:31pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

Good to see the noob knows better than Mack who has been playing since Christ was in diapers.

no reason to flame. i asked a question, he responded with his opinion, i didn't agree and replied why

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 9:49pm

tarrguy57 wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

Good to see the noob knows better than Mack who has been playing since Christ was in diapers.

no reason to flame. i asked a question, he responded with his opinion, i didn't agree and replied why

His opinion is based on years and years of playing experience. If you have no intention of taking advice from forumers that have a clue... why even post in the first place? As I said, you seem to have it all figred out. Good luck with it.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 10:38pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

oldpbnoob wrote:

Good to see the noob knows better than Mack who has been playing since Christ was in diapers.

no reason to flame. i asked a question, he responded with his opinion, i didn't agree and replied why

why even post if you're just going to bash what people have to say? he may have lots of experience but that still doesn't make his opinion right. i respect his opinion and have taken it into consideration and i don't agree but i appreciate that he has offered help. so thanks alot for the into mack it helped alot Thumbs Up

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 10:47pm

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

<NOTE: Edited to save space>

yes thats what m98 means: model 98

Oops, missed that.

when you hold the gun you could barely tell the difference

I can, but as I said, I am a purist and did carry an M16 for years. (Which is probably the reason the double trigger stands out so much for me.)

when i say there are other things that make it look less real than the double trigger would be the bottom line, hopper feed, hopper, giant ass cable running off the gun

I guess those don't bother me as much because they are part of the mechanics of paintball that we just have to put up with but the trigger is something that we don't have to do.

(unless of course you are using a small tank within the stock) and IMO a gun with a giant scope, sight rail, RIS rail, stock, mag, m16 barrel shroud, RIS rails on the shroud, folding hand grip on the shroud, flashlight, laser, front sight, grenade launcher, bipod, sling, do i need to go on? it just looks dumb cuz no soldier would ever had a gun look like that.

I agree 100% on that. In fact, that was what I had in mind when I mentioned the random bolt-on stuff.

and i'm not sticking stuff on it randomly

Good.

and there is nothing wrong with cheap so long as it doesn't hinder performance

Won't argue that either. What I will point out is there is a point where inexpensive hinders mil-sim to the point that many people no longer consider the mil-sim to be effective.

well i'm 6'3 long and gangly so the extra "space" is nice

At that height, you may have difficulty finding a stock that extends long enough to be comfortable. Since the folding ones tend to be a bit longer than the collapsible ones you probably made a good choice.

What I want to know, related to this, is why some after-market manufacturer just doesn't make a kit where the shroud fits back over the extra space (with a snap-on/screw on part) for the feed elbow) to disguise the extra room as part of the barrel/shroud.

IMO it looks weird and wouldn't be comfortable to hold the shroud.

They're not; you pretty much have to add a vertical grip to them.

never seen it done?

I haven't. There was someone on here a while back working on a drum feed but he quit posting.

i'm not exactly sure how it works but it involves milling the bottom of the marker and using a spring loaded mag

Got a link to one of these as an example?

(generally holds 30 balls but i've heard of mags holding 60 as well)

A link to this would be nice as well. With the exception of the 100 round Q-Loader pods (which I don't think really fits the parameters of what we're discussing here) the largest magazine that I can think of which holds .68 caliber paintballs are the magazines for the RAP4 T-series markers. (The .43 caliber mags hold 20.) A 30 round magazine would be big and a 60 round one would be monstrous.

and if/when i get to this, an e-grip would be rendered useless except maybe for burst mode because in a milsim match you don't go in with pods (at least the few i've been to you don't, only 30 round mags)

Are there magazine fed Tippmanns at these events?

so you need to conserve and pick your shots. the basic premise of an E-grip is more paint in a smaller amount of time. that'd be great if i wanted to make maybe a SAW or some other machine gun (hopefully next project, either gotta make it myself or widen my budget)

Keep in mind that being the support gunner seriously increases your expenditures on paint.

an e-grip will be worthless. i know that a folding stock isn't necessarily stock M16 (i've seen a few here and there)

Outer diameter of after-market barrel does not match diameter of barrel that came with foregrip/shroud kit.

Generally, the barrels from the M16/M4 kit have a larger outer diameter than most after-market barrels. This is easy to deal with as a bit of electrical tape, a few o-rings or even some spacers (included in some kits) can be used for a tight fit. I actually can not think of any cases where the kit barrel had too small an outer diameter.
If there is a diameter issue and the kit includes a front sight post it is a bit harder to hide the tape/o-ring modifications that might be necessary for a good fit.

The kits I have experience with use a set screw to attach the shrouds to the barrel. This screw can damage the finish on after-market barrels and even effect the performance of thinner/cheaper barrels if overtightened.

now what i'm curious about is how you have such an opinion on this yet from what i've read you're not really into milsim.

I've been playing since '85. While I am not into mil-sim now, I did go through a mil-sim phase (as well as several other phases which made this sport insanely expensive for me). The Armson kit I mentioned elsewhere was what I used to make a 98 Custom into an M16. While I no longer have the 98-based M16 modded marker I do still have a 98-based AK which I kept because I really liked how it felt/shot.

oldpbnoob wrote:

Good to see the noob knows better than Mack who has been playing since Christ was in diapers.

Christ was not, I repeat not, in diapers back then.*

*They didn't have diapers, they used swaddling cloths.

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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 10:59pm

Yeah, it's a double-post but I didn't want to include this in the previous. Thank's oldpbnoob for jumping in on my behalf but I haven't been offended by anything here and am enjoying the discussion. Plus, I'm hoping a link to a magazine fed Tippmann can be provided because I think that would be fascinating.

On a related note:

oldpbnoob, you should throw a link in here to the thread on that project you were working on a while back for the limited paint 98 set-up. While it isn't strictly mil-sim, from the description of the rules/limitations that tarrguy57 sort of mentioned I think it probably meets the critera for the games he's involved in as far as ammo capacity. (And it would be a simpler alternative than modding a magazine feed system.)

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 11:53pm

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

<NOTE: Edited to save space>

Oops, missed that.

no problem

fair enough i figured you were and i appreciate your service.

(unless of course you are using a small tank within the stock) and IMO a gun with a giant scope, sight rail, RIS rail, stock, mag, m16 barrel shroud, RIS rails on the shroud, folding hand grip on the shroud, flashlight, laser, front sight, grenade launcher, bipod, sling, do i need to go on? it just looks dumb cuz no soldier would ever had a gun look like that.

I agree 100% on that. In fact, that was what I had in mind when I mentioned the random bolt-on stuff.

exactly. a buddy of mine won some paintball contest thing at a local shop and won a free fully decked out A5 with anything he wanted, now granted if i had free reign to do whatever with no budget i'd attach whatever the hell could fit on the gun with the idea to remove most of it and save/sell it to do different setups

and i'm not sticking stuff on it randomly

Good.

and there is nothing wrong with cheap so long as it doesn't hinder performance

Won't argue that either. What I will point out is there is a point where inexpensive hinders mil-sim to the point that many people no longer consider the mil-sim to be effective.

i am buying metal parts, no crappy plastic here

anyway. the 98 is just fine for making it into a M16 i see them all the time.

i hope i did. i've tried a few different stocks and never felt at one with my gun using a collapsible but most folding ones felt really good, not perfect but better than a collapsible stock by far. issue is that most folding stocks are much more $$$ than c-stocks but i lucked out and found a Tapco for $30! hope i don't need to modify it to much to work with ACT cuz i've heard issues of having to drill extra holes. also about a kit that would fit back over the "extra space" of the gun between the end of the barrel shroud and the beginning of a magazine, there is only one kit that i know of that comes close to doing that is the tippmann 3 piece conversion kit to make your 98 look like an AK and thats where the problem is; not everyone wants an AK.

oops forgot to say good point but good internals alone doesn't make a good gun. the balance, weight, sight line, and user feel all come into play. plus like i said before not the most customization

IMO it looks weird and wouldn't be comfortable to hold the shroud.

They're not; you pretty much have to add a vertical grip to them.

figured as much but even with the grip i just don't like the look of them. but to each his own

never seen it done?

I haven't. There was someone on here a while back working on a drum feed but he quit posting.

i honestly don't know if there is par say a "kit" for tippmanns or 98s but i have seen bottomfeed mag fed guns and i know at least some are homebrew ammo boxes.

i'm not exactly sure how it works but it involves milling the bottom of the marker and using a spring loaded mag

Got a link to one of these as an example?

just google magazine fed paintball guns and they come up. RAP4 just came out with a forcefeed 250 round bottomfeed ammo box

(generally holds 30 balls but i've heard of mags holding 60 as well)

A link to this would be nice as well. With the exception of the 100 round Q-Loader pods (which I don't think really fits the parameters of what we're discussing here) the largest magazine that I can think of which holds .68 caliber paintballs are the magazines for the RAP4 T-series markers. (The .43 caliber mags hold 20.) A 30 round magazine would be big and a 60 round one would be monstrous.

i did some searching and found a 25 round mag at: http://www.getrealpaintball.com/ - http://www.getrealpaintball.com/ but i've read about a big scenario game in Minnesota that only allows magazine fed markers using 30 or 60 round mags or 200 round ammo boxes. the scenario game i played at (can't remember where, i spent a year on the road and any time i stopped i hit up the internet for paintball hot spots wherever i was) and i think i may have been using an AT4 cuz it had a 30 round mag.

and if/when i get to this, an e-grip would be rendered useless except maybe for burst mode because in a milsim match you don't go in with pods (at least the few i've been to you don't, only 30 round mags)

Are there magazine fed Tippmanns at these events?

i've seen a few maybe. i know there were at least 1 cuz everyone was freaking out cuz a guy had made a MG42 with a 500 round ammo box out of a Halo or something of the sort out of an A5

so you need to conserve and pick your shots. the basic premise of an E-grip is more paint in a smaller amount of time. that'd be great if i wanted to make maybe a SAW or some other machine gun (hopefully next project, either gotta make it myself or widen my budget)

Keep in mind that being the support gunner seriously increases your expenditures on paint.

totally had a brain fart and was like "ummmm...what?" but you mean i'll need more $$$ for paint if i do get around to that project? yes i know but it probably won't happen until after college. once i finish my 98 i see no future big payments (hopefully) so i'll have saved up a bunch, plus i'm starting work at 2 different stores that sell pretty decent paintballs so i'd be getting a big discount

an e-grip will be worthless. i know that a folding stock isn't necessarily stock M16 (i've seen a few here and there)

Outer diameter of after-market barrel does not match diameter of barrel that came with foregrip/shroud kit.

Generally, the barrels from the M16/M4 kit have a larger outer diameter than most after-market barrels. This is easy to deal with as a bit of electrical tape, a few o-rings or even some spacers (included in some kits) can be used for a tight fit. I actually can not think of any cases where the kit barrel had too small an outer diameter.
If there is a diameter issue and the kit includes a front sight post it is a bit harder to hide the tape/o-ring modifications that might be necessary for a good fit.

The kits I have experience with use a set screw to attach the shrouds to the barrel. This screw can damage the finish on after-market barrels and even effect the performance of thinner/cheaper barrels if overtightened.

now thats the kind of info i'm looking for. i have been told that at least for a BT-16 barrel the barrel is swappable. but i guess i'll just have to check once it arrives.

please tell me is wood! a buddy has a AK-98 and its all synthetic composite and just looks like crap plus it looks even worse since he attempted to tiger stripe camo it. that would be a fun project though i don't know if i'd buy the wood parts, make the wood parts or just buy a one (either tacamo, RAP4, or a premade 98 conversion)

oldpbnoob wrote:

Good to see the noob knows better than Mack who has been playing since Christ was in diapers.

Christ was not, I repeat not, in diapers back then.*

*They didn't have diapers, they used swaddling cloths.

man you could not have picked a worse color to write it! lol

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 1:47am

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

i am buying metal parts, no crappy plastic here

Good, the only plastic kit I've ever liked is the Tippmann AK kit you mention later on.

i lucked out and found a Tapco for $30! hope i don't need to modify it to much to work with ACT cuz i've heard issues of having to drill extra holes.

There are actually several issues you might run into:

First one is the ACT thing you mentioned. If the stock is not ACT compatible you will have to put an additional hole in the piece that fits between the marker body halves. The stock end cap can be used as a guide but be very careful not to drill too deep or you will have problems with your ACT performance.
Another consideration is that newer 98 series markers, and the stocks for them, have a ridge on the stock that fits into a matching slot between the body halves. This prevents the stock from rotating between the body halves during use. (Which is really annoying.)

If the marker is not set up for this and the stock is, the body will not close until something is altered.
If the stock doesn't have this ridge, it is very likely that you will experience stock rotation no matter how much you torque down the rear bolts on the body. (And over-tightening the body bolts has been known to cause operation issues.)

The old-school solution (from before these tabs were put on stuff) is to put a narrow piece of duct tape between the two grooves on the end cap of the stock to tighten up the fit.
Hopefully, if this is the stock I'm thinking of, you won't need to do this. Most of the Tapco stocks I've seen installed (on A5s, not 98s) have actually required the removal of material for a proper fit. If this holds true, you may get to skip the dreaded "stock spin syndrome."

A final stock-related issue concerns velocity problems. If the hole in the stock for the mainspring and guidepin is deeper than the hole in the end cap the decreased tension on the spring can result in decreased velocity. In this case either a spacer behind the guidepin or a heavier after-market spring will be needed. (The opposite holds true if the hole is more shallow.)

also about a kit that would fit back over the "extra space" of the gun between the end of the barrel shroud and the beginning of a magazine, there is only one kit that i know of that comes close to doing that is the tippmann 3 piece conversion kit to make your 98 look like an AK and thats where the problem is; not everyone wants an AK.

This is actually the mil-sim kit I still have/use. Oddly enough I detested this specific kit until I saw it on one of the silver 98 Customs that Tippmann used to make. Since I liked the way it looked and was in the market for a new 98 I ended up with it. I did replace the stock from the kit (which was too short) with a folding JCS stock though.

rthe balance, weight, sight line, and user feel all come into play. plus like i said before not the most customization

Everyone I know with an Alpha is happy with these aspects of the marker. I also have to add that the "feel" of the AB comes closer to that of an M4 than any of the other mil-sim markers I have handled. (There was an old clip-fed one--pre RAP4--that I tested years ago that had the proportions perfect but the weight was all wrong.)

i honestly don't know if there is par say a "kit" for tippmanns or 98s but i have seen bottomfeed mag fed guns and i know at least some are homebrew ammo boxes.

Most of the magazine-fed markers are designed for that as opposed to home-mods. The coolest ammo box mod I ever saw didn't alter the markers feed system but had a hopper and warp feed hidden inside a box slung off the bottom of a heavy machine gun styled marker. It was designed so you could open the box and poor paint right into the hopper.

i'm not exactly sure how it works but it involves milling the bottom of the marker and using a spring loaded mag

Got a link to one of these as an example?

just google magazine fed paintball guns and they come up. RAP4 just came out with a forcefeed 250 round bottomfeed ammo box

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it only works on the T68 series markers made by RAP4.

i did some searching and found a 25 round mag at: http://www.getrealpaintball.com/ - http://www.getrealpaintball.com/

Unfortunately, those only work on the AT series markers. (Which, now that I think about it, might have been the marker I handled so long ago that had the M16 proportions just right even though the weight distribution felt wrong.) On the subject of those markers; the original magazines used a track-feed system and were extremely unreliable. My understanding is this system was replaced with a spring/string/pulley system (based on the explanation of someone at our field that has one) but they still have issues. The last time he was out only 4 of his 6 magazines were functional. The good news is the new system is apparently much easier for owners to maintain and repair.

but i've read about a big scenario game in Minnesota that only allows magazine fed markers using 30 or 60 round mags or 200 round ammo boxes. the scenario game i played at (can't remember where, i spent a year on the road and any time i stopped i hit up the internet for paintball hot spots wherever i was) and i think i may have been using an AT4 cuz it had a 30 round mag.

My personal thoughts were that if I ever got into a limited paint mil-sim game I would keep things simple and just toss a 30-50 round tac-cap on one of my A5s.

i've seen a few maybe. i know there were at least 1 cuz everyone was freaking out cuz a guy had made a MG42 with a 500 round ammo box out of a Halo or something of the sort out of an A5

Most of these mods use some type of tube feed to the original feed port.

please tell me is wood!

It's not. I stayed away from the wood kit because I didn't like the stock and also because the wood probably won't survive my playing style (at least the one I had at the time) as well as the plastic/composite.

a buddy has a AK-98 and its all synthetic composite and just looks like crap

That was my opinion as well until I saw the kit on a silver Custom 98.

plus it looks even worse since he attempted to tiger stripe camo it. that would be a fun project though i don't know if i'd buy the wood parts, make the wood parts or just buy a one (either tacamo, RAP4, or a premade 98 conversion)

Tacamo's are neat markers but unless they've upgraded the mechanical trigger system in the last few years be prepared for a long, stiff trigger pull and a slower rate of fire than a stock Tippmann. Most people on here will suggest avoiding RAP4 as they have a history of product reliability issues. I remember seeing a wood AK kit for the 98 quite a while back that I really liked but, as stated before, I wasn't sure how good it would look after I played with it. (I should note that I have seen several wood kits for this application and while I didn't like the stock on one, the setup that I did like was quite expensive.)

man you could not have picked a worse color to write it! lol

Want to bet on that?

Edited afterthought: Probably the reason I like 98 based AK setups and not 98 based M16/M4 setups is the fact that having carried both an M16 and an M4 I can easily spot the flaws in the mil-sim versions of these and since I was never armed with any version of the AK, I do not spot the flaws in those type of mods.

Second edited afterthought:

If this is the stock you ordered . . .

. . . you may not be happy with the length. However, I know someone who solved their short stock problem with a shotgun recoil pad on the end of it so there is a solution. Also, be careful not to over-torque the pin that the stock swivels on. Unless they have changed them, they are plastic and will break if over-stressed.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 9:17am

I'm not a huge fan of folding stocks actually. I had the JCS that Mack recommends, but even that fell short. It seems wobbly. I had this one: http://www.rap4.com/paintball/store/tippmann-a5-folding-buttstock - http://www.rap4.com/paintball/store/tippmann-a5-folding-buttstock , and while it felt sturdier, I still wasnt thrilled with it. I ended up being pretty much an anti-stock guy in the end. Possibly, because I ended up not liking remotes either and IMO they go hand in hand.

Regarding standing up for Mack's honor... anytime. You will find that Mack is one of the more knowledgeable forumers on this site and always willing to help out new players. It annoys me when I see new players without a clue disgarding his suggestions. They are sound, but experience is sometimes the better teacher. However, I know that he is a big boy and if he's ok with it, than I'll move along.

As for my magazine fed marker, here it is:

It utilizes Ariakon ACP2.0 pistol magazines that clip onto the top. It also runs limited air capability in the form of 88g CO2 cartridges that actually fit in through the front of the foregrip. The stock is a canibalized Rap 4 stock with homemade mounting. The barrel is a J&J 12" I beleive. It has had limited play, mostily shooting through a few clips in the backyard, but was a fun project.

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 12:01pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of folding stocks actually. I had the JCS that Mack recommends, but even that fell short. It seems wobbly.

I have to admit that my JCS has been modified a bit:

Tape around the part that replaces the end cap for a tighter (no spin) fit.
Since I don't have to extend it all the way I added a second bolt and nut at the point that the front of the rear piece goes through the front piece. (I did this to help prevent it from adjusting its own length but this may be why I have never considered it "wobbly" as well.)

I had this one: http://www.rap4.com/paintball/store/tippmann-a5-folding-buttstock - http://www.rap4.com/paintball/store/tippmann-a5-folding-buttstock , and while it felt sturdier, I still wasnt thrilled with it. I ended up being pretty much an anti-stock guy in the end. Possibly, because I ended up not liking remotes either and IMO they go hand in hand.

I was never a remote fan either, but after I picked up a B5 a while back it became mandatory. Actually, it wasn't the remote specifically that bothered me; it was the tank on my back making the pins in my back act up. I finally plunked down the money on a decent vest, which moved the tank up above the belt, and don't seem to be having any problems yet. (Knock on wood.)

As for limited feed markers, that seems to be a pretty niche crowd. I play at 4-5 various fields and have yet to run across such a thing other than one of the fields had a pistol only day. It drew maybe 50 players from my understanding. Modding a 98 for a bottom feed magazine would be a lot of work, and I suspect some of the ones you were seeing were more than likely Milsig, Rap4 or some other marker specifically made to be magazine fed.

That's what I was thinking as well. (Which is too bad because I would really like to check out the info on a mag fed Tippmann.) Related to that, I'm going to have to find out exactly what it is the guy at my field uses now. (The one I discussed spring/string/pulley feed mags with.) I thought it was something from GetRealPaintball but their site says their mags still use a chain/track system.

As Mack said, an easier and probably cheaper solution would be getting a Cyclone and a Tac cap if you are playing a limited capacity game. If you have your heart set on cutting it up and attempting it though, keep us in the loop, would be interesting to see it done.

Ditto.

As for my magazine fed marker, here it is:

Wow, that is so cool . . .
. . . and . . . I can't believe you cut up a gilled Tippmann for that.

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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 12:19pm

I had to modify my JCS as well. I had milled and redrilled the holes where it mounted to the endcap to make it tilt down more so that when it was against my shoulder the sights were almost dead on. My problem was with the "hinge" . The pin that was supposed to keep it from closing didn't hold worth a crap and I could easily make it collapse without pushing the button. It was nice that it collapsed and adjusted for length though.

The gills are the best part.. I keep thinking about putting an LED in the breach so that it glows. And you would probably cry a little more as I cut up the other gilled M98 I had a few months ago for an E-bolted project that I can just never seem to find the time to finish. That, and I mounted the front grip too far forward, so now I have to redo the work that I already did. Which I hate doing.

In hindsight since I never really use this one, I should have just pillaged it for the body and kept the other one intact. Oh well..

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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 1:28pm

oldpbnoob wrote:

I had to modify my JCS as well. I had milled and redrilled the holes where it mounted to the endcap to make it tilt down more so that when it was against my shoulder the sights were almost dead on. My problem was with the "hinge" . The pin that was supposed to keep it from closing didn't hold worth a crap and I could easily make it collapse without pushing the button.

Mine got like that after a while. I took it apart and cleaned out the entire area and oiled all the parts and it worked flawlessly again. (In my case I had actually got some shell and other debris in there.)

It was nice that it collapsed and adjusted for length though.

The gills are the best part.. I keep thinking about putting an LED in the breach so that it glows. And you would probably cry a little more as I cut up the other gilled M98 I had a few months ago for an E-bolted project that I can just never seem to find the time to finish.

Cutting up old Tippmanns makes Mack sad.

That, and I mounted the front grip too far forward, so now I have to redo the work that I already did. Which I hate doing.

In hindsight since I never really use this one, I should have just pillaged it for the body and kept the other one intact. Oh well..

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 4:42pm

alright wow lots of stuff and too much to quote and reply to. mack i did end up buying a more realistic and heavier duty sight/carrying handle on ebay for $19 and bought the BT-16 barrel for $35 from amazon. i know i'm taking a gamble on both but i trust the internet alot more than i trust the creeps down at my local shop. i'm gonna do some digging and see if i can see what the local guys who play at the really big milsim games know about mag fed markers. um cyclone with tac cap? and i remember mack saying something about when people make/use ammo boxes they have a feed tube running back to the top of the marker, i have actually seen both on forums and in real life. if you're on pbnation i know there is at least 1 thread there about a guy giving a limited tutorial about how he made his. i can't remember if he did bottom feed or not though. as for the length of the stock, where would i get a shotgun pad? the issue with running a smaller hopper is that there is a milsim scenario up here that only allows mag fed guns so if you use a hoppered gun you wouldn't be allowed in but they allow free rentals when you pay to get it if you don't have a mag fed gun which is nice. i know i'm forgetting something else but just don't have time to think about it right now.

sweet gun oldpbnoob. an LED would be pretty awesome. but what color since the gun is from the looks of it striped metal and black paint/plastic?

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 4:49pm

Most sporting goods stores carry the recoil pads for the shotguns. The issues is finding one that fits/looks good.

A mag-fed only event sounds interesting. The only problem is the only mag-fed markers I have are a T9 and a TPX. (Maybe I could stick an ASA, stock and Evil Pipe tip on my USP and claim it was a simulated tube-feed Winchester.)

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 4:59pm

Mack wrote:

Most sporting goods stores carry the recoil pads for the shotguns. The issues is finding one that fits/looks good.

A mag-fed only event sounds interesting. The only problem is the only mag-fed markers I have are a T9 and a TPX. (Maybe I could stick an ASA, stock and Evil Pipe tip on my USP and claim it was a simulated tube-feed Winchester.)

um what? lol also what is a cyclone with tac cap? you mean a cyclone hopper (like an A5) with a tac cap (i figure a fast reload lid?)

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 5:43pm

Regarding the Winchester comment: Think of the old western movies and the lever action rifles. (Joke, although I do have the remains of an old pump gun set aside for an eventual tube-feed, lever-action project based on those rifles.)

The tac caps, which were made by several companies in several different forms, replaced the stock Cyclone hopper and allowed the user to play with a 30 to 50 round hopper instead of 200 rounds. They used to be very popular among mil-simmers who wanted to do limited ammo-capacity games without spending the money on a mag-fed marker.

http://www.discountpaintball.com/Trinity-Tippmann-X7A5-Cyclone-Tac-Cap_p_1507.html - Example

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 6:19pm

)

Mack wrote:

Regarding the Winchester comment: Think of the old western movies and the lever action rifles. (Joke, although I do have the remains of an old pump gun set aside for an eventual tube-feed, lever-action project based on those rifles.)

The tac caps, which were made by several companies in several different forms, replaced the stock Cyclone hopper and allowed the user to play with a 30 to 50 round hopper instead of 200 rounds. They used to be very popular among mil-simmers who wanted to do limited ammo-capacity games without spending the money on a mag-fed marker.

http://www.discountpaintball.com/Trinity-Tippmann-X7A5-Cyclone-Tac-Cap_p_1507.html - Example

as to a bolt-action paintball gun= epic

that would be awesome, there is a M1 Garand i believe made by RAP4 that is an authentic modified M1 (which would explain the $1500 price tag Shocked

) but i believe it was still hopper fed. let me know if you ever get around to that project. would be interesting to see. and yes now i know what you're talking about. that would be a pretty good option. but i figure that would get in the way of my folding stock Confused

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 6:24pm

also i would love a TPX but i got 2 semi-upped delta .68s for less than 1 TPX. XD plus then that would mean buying extra mags at a pretty steep price and that i use a bottomline on my pistols cuz buying 12g cartridges gets a little spendy and finagalling the dumb thing to seat correctly so it doesn't dump and ruin the o-ring. so having a bottomline magazine for a TPX wouldn't work cuz it would add more time: empty clip, disconnect remote, dump mag, place in vest pouch, grab new mag, insert mag, reconnect remote, fire. too long in my book. but i'd still love to have one or maybe a real replica. know any replica pistols that take real paintballs? not wimpy .43 cal

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 6:58pm

This isn't a bolt action, but it is cool.

forum_posts.asp?TID=185800&KW=bolt&PID=2665091#2665091 - Link

I've seen similar setups modified to truly be bolt-action operation but I don't remember where/can't find them right now.

I picked up a Delta .68 quite a while back for a very good price. (Free--courtesy of a friend who owns a paintball store and was sick of sending it back in and getting it back still broken.) The CO2 loading system is very poorly designed but there is a solution. I wish I could claim the solution was my idea but it isn't; I found out from another forumer in a discussion on here. A much better designed piercing/sealing system from another pistol is a drop in replacement for the system on the Deltas.

I bought one, installed it and have had no further problems. (With the exception that the quick release lever for the CO2 catches on the bottom of the holster and releases itself.) If I can remember which pistol the part is from I will post it. (Actually, I will just try a search for the thread.)

A simpler fix was suggested elsewhere by the forumer known as Flurry who says that smearing Chapstick on the ends of the 12 grams helps protect the seals. (Found with the first search I tried.)

Edited Addition: The first fix I did to my Delta involved disassembling the piecing assembly and reassembling it without the pin and spring. After this I dropped an o-ring down in the opening (all the way in to where the pin used to be) and seated by dummy 12 gram against that. Since I didn't remove the 12 gram regularly it held fine once I got a good seal.

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 7:09pm

Mack wrote:

This isn't a bolt action, but it is cool.

forum_posts.asp?TID=185800&KW=bolt&PID=2665091#2665091 - Link

I've seen similar setups modified to truly be bolt-action operation but I don't remember where/can't find them right now.

I picked up a Delta .68 quite a while back for a very good price. (Free--courtesy of a friend who owns a paintball store and was sick of sending it back in and getting it back still broken.) The CO2 loading system is very poorly designed but there is a solution. I wish I could claim the solution was my idea but it isn't; I found out from another forumer in a discussion on here. A much better designed piercing/sealing system from another pistol is a drop in replacement for the system on the Deltas.

I bought one, installed it and have had no further problems. (With the exception that the quick release lever for the CO2 catches on the bottom of the holster and releases itself.) If I can remember which pistol the part is from I will post it. (Actually, I will just try a search for the thread.)

A simpler fix was suggested elsewhere by the forumer known as Flurry who says that smearing Chapstick on the ends of the 12 grams helps protect the seals. (Found with the first search I tried.)

Edited Addition: The first fix I did to my Delta involved disassembling the piecing assembly and reassembling it without the pin and spring. After this I dropped an o-ring down in the opening (all the way in to where the pin used to be) and seated by dummy 12 gram against that. Since I didn't remove the 12 gram regularly it held fine once I got a good seal.

those rifles look awesome.

man everyone has friends that just give them stuff. the last thing my friends gave me was...um...i can't even remember the last time i've gotten anything for free from my friends.

and better piercing assembly would be amazing but i'm attempting to come up with a bottom line. i have 2 and one has a bottom line on it already built straight into the gun w/o using a dummy cartridge. issue is the idiot machined off the entire area the 12g cartridges used to go in and pretty poorly at that. i just picked up basically brand new one. i wanna try and make a dummy bottom line system like the ones RAP4 makes for their pistols but hopefully mine won't cost $30-35 to make.

from what you're saying thats what it sounds like you did. any further info? trying to piece together what your're saying with what i'm thinking and what i know. i know very little about gun mechanics which i why i have never bought parts for the internals of any guns i've owned

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 7:48pm

Found it! It was the Rap4 puncture block--part #18. (Probably the only decent part they ever made.) Link to pertinent thread below:

forum_posts.asp?TID=183092&KW=delta&PID=2619868#2619868 - Link

tarrguy57 wrote:

those rifles look awesome.

man everyone has friends that just give them stuff. the last thing my friends gave me was...um...i can't even remember the last time i've gotten anything for free from my friends.

I met him when I started playing again after my last move and we became pretty good friends. I hang out at his store about once a week and although I don't buy stuff all the time we end up BSing and I usually give him a hand while I'm doing so. I especially enjoy tinkering so I end up doing marker maintenance occasionally while he deals with customers. Over the years he's given me the Delta, one other marker, and a Q-Loader system, not to mention a bunch of smaller things.

and better piercing assembly would be amazing but i'm attempting to come up with a bottom line. i have 2 and one has a bottom line on it already built straight into the gun w/o using a dummy cartridge. issue is the idiot machined off the entire area the 12g cartridges used to go in and pretty poorly at that.

Well, I wouldn't bother with a new assembly for that one. How the heck is the puncture area sealed so it doesn't leak?

i just picked up basically brand new one. i wanna try and make a dummy bottom line system like the ones RAP4 makes for their pistols but hopefully mine won't cost $30-35 to make.

Removed the puncture assembly. It has slots in the front and essentially just screws out although it is a pain to reach it with a tool.
Unscrewed the small piece (also slotted for a screwdriver) from the rear and took out the pin/spring assembly.
Replaced pin/spring with a small metal washer (to protect gas filter and provide a seat for the o-ring) and replaced the piece with the filter that was holding the pin/spring in place.
Inserted an o-ring in from the other side so it was right against the washer I just installed.
Put entire puncture assembly back into marker. (Not a bad idea to check/replace the o-ring on this assembly and slightly lube it with a good paintball grease before doing so.)
Attached my bottom line set up by installing (and repeatedly adjusting fit of ) dummy 12 gram in 12 gram slot and screwing ASA to bottom of grip frame.

This consisted of the following:

Dummy 12 gram which I got off e-bay. (Fairly inexpensive and they work much better than making your own.)
Old ASA and stainless steel Tippmann hose from my spare parts bin. (After 20+ years of playing there is a lot of stuff in this bin which saves trips to the store.)
You can use teflon tape or Locktite when making one of these. I personally prefer teflon tape.

The final thing I did was put a small electrical zip tie around the 12 gram changer and quick release so it would stay in place.

The setup has changed a bit since this. Since I could use 12 grams after installing the RAP4 part I experimented with those for a while. The bottom line system has since gone back on because I'm planning on using this as the marker for the VIP when we do "Protect the President" games. I'll stick a 13 cu. in. tank on it and give them a belt holder with 4 extra 10 round tubes so no one is out the cost of a 12 gram from loaning out their own main pistol. (It also gives the VIP just a bit more firepower.)

I have one final mod in mind but haven't yet worked up the courage/motivation to really get started. I have been kicking around the idea of widening the opening in the Delta magazine so that it would serve as a loading port. My theory is then I could load by just locking the feed spring back, twisting the end plug 180*, and sticking a 10 round tube against the now open hole.

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 03 September 2010 at 11:58pm

Mack wrote:

Found it! It was the Rap4 puncture block--part #18. (Probably the only decent part they ever made.) Link to pertinent thread below:

forum_posts.asp?TID=183092&KW=delta&PID=2619868#2619868 - Link

tarrguy57 wrote:

those rifles look awesome.

the guys at my shop are just too weird to hang out with. i shoot the breeze and stuff but they get mad when i joke about how high their prices are or don't buy stuff. only thing i got from them was maybe a few o-rings cuz i just needed a couple not a bag of 100

and better piercing assembly would be amazing but i'm attempting to come up with a bottom line. i have 2 and one has a bottom line on it already built straight into the gun w/o using a dummy cartridge. issue is the idiot machined off the entire area the 12g cartridges used to go in and pretty poorly at that.

Well, I wouldn't bother with a new assembly for that one. How the heck is the puncture area sealed so it doesn't leak?

well ya not for my old one but the new one i just got. i'll take a picture and post it tomorrow. its ugly but it works

i just picked up basically brand new one. i wanna try and make a dummy bottom line system like the ones RAP4 makes for their pistols but hopefully mine won't cost $30-35 to make.

Removed the puncture assembly. It has slots in the front and essentially just screws out although it is a pain to reach it with a tool.
Unscrewed the small piece (also slotted for a screwdriver) from the rear and took out the pin/spring assembly. (i know this how process sucks!)
Replaced pin/spring with a small metal washer (to protect gas filter and provide a seat for the o-ring) and replaced the piece with the filter that was holding the pin/spring in place.
Inserted an o-ring in from the other side so it was right against the washer I just installed. (got a picture or diagram cuz i'm not quite following)
Put entire puncture assembly back into marker. (Not a bad idea to check/replace the o-ring on this assembly and slightly lube it with a good paintball grease before doing so.)
Attached my bottom line set up by installing (and repeatedly adjusting fit of ) dummy 12 gram in 12 gram slot and screwing ASA to bottom of grip frame.

This consisted of the following:

Dummy 12 gram which I got off e-bay. (Fairly inexpensive and they work much better than making your own.) (mind telling me where you found these? all i can find are regular 12grams or threaded ones for bike pumps)
Old ASA and stainless steel Tippmann hose from my spare parts bin. (After 20+ years of playing there is a lot of stuff in this bin which saves trips to the store.)
You can use teflon tape or Locktite when making one of these. I personally prefer teflon tape. (ya the guy who made the bottom line on my other pistol used a white tape that he called pipe tape?)

The final thing I did was put a small electrical zip tie around the 12 gram changer and quick release so it would stay in place. (not a bad idea, did you just put it through one of the ports on the side or did you go all the way up and over the barrel)

The setup has changed a bit since this. Since I could use 12 grams after installing the RAP4 part (what RAP4 part?) I experimented with those for a while. The bottom line system has since gone back on because I'm planning on using this as the marker for the VIP when we do "Protect the President" games. I'll stick a 13 cu. in. tank (never really understood 13ci tanks, nice and small and actually comfy but too expensive for how small they are. i've gotten 68ci tanks for the same price) on it and give them a belt holder with 4 extra 10 round tubes so no one is out the cost of a 12 gram from loaning out their own main pistol. (It also gives the VIP just a bit more firepower.)

I have one final mod in mind but haven't yet worked up the courage/motivation to really get started. I have been kicking around the idea of widening the opening in the Delta magazine so that it would serve as a loading port. My theory is then I could load by just locking the feed spring back, twisting the end plug 180*, and sticking a 10 round tube against the now open hole. This would be really cool and way easier then trying to pull out the cap which so far i have been unable to do without pulling the mag off the gun and gripping it really hard (any ideas as to make this easier? i figure maybe sanding a small portion of the cap off all the way around) got a picture of what you're thinking. i understand the idea but not where

-------------
Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 12:44am

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

Found it! It was the Rap4 puncture block--part #18. (Probably the only decent part they ever made.) Link to pertinent thread below:

forum_posts.asp?TID=183092&KW=delta&PID=2619868#2619868 - Link

tarrguy57 wrote:

i wanna try and make a dummy bottom line system like the ones RAP4 makes for their pistols but hopefully mine won't cost $30-35 to make.

If this is what you are referring to, it is very similar to what I made except theirs looks better because it is not mostly old/spare parts.

My bottom line system resulted in the pistol no longer being holsterable.

This is what I did:

Removed the puncture assembly. It has slots in the front and essentially just screws out although it is a pain to reach it with a tool.
Unscrewed the small piece (also slotted for a screwdriver) from the rear and took out the pin/spring assembly. (i know this how process sucks!)
Replaced pin/spring with a small metal washer (to protect gas filter and provide a seat for the o-ring) and replaced the piece with the filter that was holding the pin/spring in place.
Inserted an o-ring in from the other side so it was right against the washer I just installed. (got a picture or diagram cuz i'm not quite following) If I can find the old valve I'll try to put a picture up; for now I will just try to improve the description. Imagine the piercing assembly put back together except the small washer is in place of the pin and spring. I used an o-ring with an outer diameter about the same size as the inner diameter of the piercing assembly when you look at the end the 12 gram goes into. I pushed that o-ring down inside where the pin used to be on the side the 12 gram goes in from. When I put a 12 gram in the o-ring was between the neck of the 12 gram and the rest of the assembly. Once tightened the o-ring (if the right size) will expand and form a seal. It's not that useful for use with real 12 grams because it can fall out during changes. However, for use with dummy 12 grams that will be left in place it works quite well.
Put entire puncture assembly back into marker. (Not a bad idea to check/replace the o-ring on this assembly and slightly lube it with a good paintball grease before doing so.)
Attached my bottom line set up by installing (and repeatedly adjusting fit of ) dummy 12 gram in 12 gram slot and screwing ASA to bottom of grip frame.

This consisted of the following:

Dummy 12 gram which I got off e-bay. (Fairly inexpensive and they work much better than making your own.) (mind telling me where you found these? all i can find are regular 12grams or threaded ones for bike pumps) http://cgi.ebay.com/Dummy-Fake-CO2-12-Gram-Stock-Pump-Paintball-Air-Rifle-/390233172716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adbb5aaec - This links to one very similar to what I purchased. These are of a heavier material than actual 12 grams so there is significantly more threading available to attach hoses/plugs to. The threading on mine was kind of rough but it works fine.
Old ASA and stainless steel Tippmann hose from my spare parts bin. (After 20+ years of playing there is a lot of stuff in this bin which saves trips to the store.)
You can use teflon tape or Locktite when making one of these. I personally prefer teflon tape. (ya the guy who made the bottom line on my other pistol used a white tape that he called pipe tape?) Same thing as teflon tape; it can be found at almost any hardware store.

The final thing I did was put a small electrical zip tie around the 12 gram changer and quick release so it would stay in place. (not a bad idea, did you just put it through one of the ports on the side or did you go all the way up and over the barrel) It was up over the top of the barrel.

The setup has changed a bit since this. Since I could use 12 grams after installing the RAP4 part (what RAP4 part?)

Click http://www.rap4.com/operation/ - this link then click on the T68 Paintball Pistol Manual pdf file near the bottom of the list. That will take you to a schematic of the pistol where you should check out part # 18. It's been a while since I ordered mine but if I remember correctly part #19, the actual pin, is included when you purchase part # 18. (I'd link directly but my computer (which is way overdue for replacement) doesn't do pdf pages anymore.

I experimented with those for a while. The bottom line system has since gone back on because I'm planning on using this as the marker for the VIP when we do "Protect the President" games. I'll stick a 13 cu. in. tank (never really understood 13ci tanks, nice and small and actually comfy but too expensive for how small they are. i've gotten 68ci tanks for the same price)

They are a bit pricey but I originally got them for pump play. The lighter tank is very nice on my Phantom and is good for well over a 100 shots which is much more than I use when I run with the Phantom.

on it and give them a belt holder with 4 extra 10 round tubes so no one is out the cost of a 12 gram from loaning out their own main pistol. (It also gives the VIP just a bit more firepower.)

I have one final mod in mind but haven't yet worked up the courage/motivation to really get started. I have been kicking around the idea of widening the opening in the Delta magazine so that it would serve as a loading port. My theory is then I could load by just locking the feed spring back, twisting the end plug 180*, and sticking a 10 round tube against the now open hole. This would be really cool and way easier then trying to pull out the cap which so far i have been unable to do without pulling the mag off the gun and gripping it really hard (any ideas as to make this easier?

One of the modifications I've seen others do to make removing the cap easier is drilling a small hole through the handle and putting a ring (like a key ring) through it. If I was going to do this I would feel more comfortable if I had an extra cap on hand just in case the ring pulled through the material or something else went wrong.

i figure maybe sanding a small portion of the cap off all the way around)

I wouldn't recommend that. If you take too much off the cap will be too loose and could come off when you don't want it to just from the pressure of the spring on the balls loaded in it.

got a picture of what you're thinking. i understand the idea but not where

When you look at the top of the magazine there is a oval hole near the rear of the mag just in front of the rear sight. That is the hole I am thinking about enlarging. One of the reasons I haven't done so yet is I want to make sure I only take off the metal I need to remove and no more. A mistake here could interfere with the plug staying in place or even cause feeding stoppages.

To answer an earlier question that I overlooked. I can't think of any replica pistols that use .68 caliber paintballs. The paint size just interferes with effective copying of real pistol looks. The closest you will probably come right now are the TPX and the Tiberius pistols.*

*Includes the Tiberius pistols marketed under other names such as the Blackbird and Tac-8.

-------------

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 1:01am

If this is what you are referring to, it is very similar to what I made except theirs looks better because it is not mostly old/spare parts.

This is exactly what i want to make except since i don't have spare parts i'll be buying them new so maybe it'll come out nicer.

My bottom line system resulted in the pistol no longer being holsterable.

why is it no longer holsterable? i used a zeus holster (at least thats what i think it is, total piece of **edited**, doesn't stay on my leg at all but it fit the gun) and the gun fit just fine in there with my bottom line. i'm worried about the new special ops paintball LH deluxe holster i just ordered it it will fit. gotta hope!

This is what I did:

Removed the puncture assembly. It has slots in the front and essentially just screws out although it is a pain to reach it with a tool.
Unscrewed the small piece (also slotted for a screwdriver) from the rear and took out the pin/spring assembly. (i know this how process sucks!)
Replaced pin/spring with a small metal washer (to protect gas filter and provide a seat for the o-ring) and replaced the piece with the filter that was holding the pin/spring in place.
Inserted an o-ring in from the other side so it was right against the washer I just installed. (got a picture or diagram cuz i'm not quite following) If I can find the old valve I'll try to put a picture up; for now I will just try to improve the description. Imagine the piercing assembly put back together except the small washer is in place of the pin and spring. I used an o-ring with an outer diameter about the same size as the inner diameter of the piercing assembly when you look at the end the 12 gram goes into. I pushed that o-ring down inside where the pin used to be on the side the 12 gram goes in from. When I put a 12 gram in the o-ring was between the neck of the 12 gram and the rest of the assembly. Once tightened the o-ring (if the right size) will expand and form a seal. It's not that useful for use with real 12 grams because it can fall out during changes. However, for use with dummy 12 grams that will be left in place it works quite well. i'll try and see if i can figure out what you mean. is this before or after you bought the #18 puncture seal assembly from RAP4? did you get it from RAP4 or else where? i can't seem to find it anywhere else for that cheap ($8.00+shipping)
Put entire puncture assembly back into marker. (Not a bad idea to check/replace the o-ring on this assembly and slightly lube it with a good paintball grease before doing so.)
Attached my bottom line set up by installing (and repeatedly adjusting fit of ) dummy 12 gram in 12 gram slot and screwing ASA to bottom of grip frame.

This consisted of the following:

Dummy 12 gram which I got off e-bay. (Fairly inexpensive and they work much better than making your own.) (mind telling me where you found these? all i can find are regular 12grams or threaded ones for bike pumps) http://cgi.ebay.com/Dummy-Fake-CO2-12-Gram-Stock-Pump-Paintball-Air-Rifle-/390233172716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adbb5aaec - This links to one very similar to what I purchased. These are of a heavier material than actual 12 grams so there is significantly more threading available to attach hoses/plugs to. The threading on mine was kind of rough but it works fine.Ya i actually just dug around and found those. not bad if i can get the braided line, fittings, and bottom line adapter for less that $8 (anything after that i might as well just spring for the RAP4 premade one)
Old ASA and stainless steel Tippmann hose from my spare parts bin. (After 20+ years of playing there is a lot of stuff in this bin which saves trips to the store.)
You can use teflon tape or Locktite when making one of these. I personally prefer teflon tape. (ya the guy who made the bottom line on my other pistol used a white tape that he called pipe tape?) Same thing as teflon tape; it can be found at almost any hardware store.

The final thing I did was put a small electrical zip tie around the 12 gram changer and quick release so it would stay in place. (not a bad idea, did you just put it through one of the ports on the side or did you go all the way up and over the barrel) It was up over the top of the barrel.

The setup has changed a bit since this. Since I could use 12 grams after installing the RAP4 part (what RAP4 part?)

Click http://www.rap4.com/operation/ - this link then click on the T68 Paintball Pistol Manual pdf file near the bottom of the list. That will take you to a schematic of the pistol where you should check out part # 18. It's been a while since I ordered mine but if I remember correctly part #19, the actual pin, is included when you purchase part # 18.

I experimented with those for a while. The bottom line system has since gone back on because I'm planning on using this as the marker for the VIP when we do "Protect the President" games. I'll stick a 13 cu. in. tank (never really understood 13ci tanks, nice and small and actually comfy but too expensive for how small they are. i've gotten 68ci tanks for the same price)

They are a bit pricey but I originally got them for pump play. The lighter tank is very nice on my Phantom and is good for well over a 100 shots which is much more than I use when I run with the Phantom.

on it and give them a belt holder with 4 extra 10 round tubes so no one is out the cost of a 12 gram from loaning out their own main pistol. (It also gives the VIP just a bit more firepower.)

I have one final mod in mind but haven't yet worked up the courage/motivation to really get started. I have been kicking around the idea of widening the opening in the Delta magazine so that it would serve as a loading port. My theory is then I could load by just locking the feed spring back, twisting the end plug 180*, and sticking a 10 round tube against the now open hole. This would be really cool and way easier then trying to pull out the cap which so far i have been unable to do without pulling the mag off the gun and gripping it really hard (any ideas as to make this easier?

One of the modifications I've seen others do to make removing the cap easier is drilling a small hole through the handle and putting a ring (like a key ring) through it. Ya i drilled a small hole for a chain and attached it to my cotter pin but i think i might shorten it and put a keyring on it.

i figure maybe sanding a small portion of the cap off all the way around)

I wouldn't recommend that. If you take too much off the cap will be too loose and could come off when you don't want it to just from the pressure of the spring on the balls loaded in it. true i'll try a key ring and see if it can get it off easier with that

got a picture of what you're thinking. i understand the idea but not where

When you look at the top of the magazine there is a oval hole near the rear of the mag just in front of the rear sight. That is the hole I am thinking about enlarging. One of the reasons I haven't done so yet is I want to make sure I only take off the metal I need to remove and no more. A mistake here could interfere with the plug staying in place or even cause feeding stoppages. so long as you don't do it too close to the end of the mag (towards the quick release cap) it shouldn't be a problem. i might just try that on one of my spare mags. or i might try to make it big enough to shove a small hopper into it....hmmm to the drawing board!

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

-------------
Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 1:19am

tarrguy57 wrote:

why is it no longer holsterable?

The pistol is no longer holsterable because the bottom line interfered with the two holsters I owned at the time that it would fit in. (I was running it in shoulder holster mostly because the tactical holster would catch the dang CO2 release every time I took it out.) As this is being set up for use as a primary, I am not going to worry about a holster for it anymore. (Plus I sold the shoulder holster to someone who could use it more than I could; the pins in my back really hated that shoulder holster.)

i'll try and see if i can figure out what you mean. is this before or after you bought the #18 puncture seal assembly from RAP4?

I now understand your confusion regarding my solutions:

These are two different solutions that as I was offering you options. The first solution I used was to take apart the stock Delta 68 piercing assembly and add a washer and o-ring as described above. (This was before I learned about the part from RAP4.) This worked well for the bottom line setup but not very well at all if I wanted to run off 12 grams.

Once I found out about the RAP4 part working in the Delta it became my second solution and replaced the original piercing assembly and everything I had done to it. The RAP4 part is a drop in replacement and is the easiest solution. In the original thread I believe the forumer who told me about it issued a warning about subpar velocity and a possible need for a spring upgrade afterwards but I had no such issues.

Basically, the things I did to the stock piercing/12 gram system are a cheaper alternative if you are only going to use a bottom line while the RAP4 part is the easier solution which allows either the use of a bottom line or 12 grams but is more expensive.

did you get it from RAP4 or else where? i can't seem to find it anywhere else for that cheap ($8.00+shipping)

I got it from RAP4, I don't think I even looked anywhere else.

When you look at the top of the magazine there is a oval hole near the rear of the mag just in front of the rear sight. That is the hole I am thinking about enlarging. One of the reasons I haven't done so yet is I want to make sure I only take off the metal I need to remove and no more. A mistake here could interfere with the plug staying in place or even cause feeding stoppages. so long as you don't do it too close to the end of the mag (towards the quick release cap) it shouldn't be a problem. i might just try that on one of my spare mags. or i might try to make it big enough to shove a small hopper into it....hmmm to the drawing board!

They used to make a hopper adapter for the PT series pistols. It was pricey, but worked okay. If you can find a picture of one it might provide additional ideas.

Since you have spare mags . . . I might just wait for you to modify one and see how it turns out. Big smile

-------------

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 2:28pm

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

ah ok ya i haven't had any issues with my holster. shoot forgot to take a pic. i'll try for tomorrow. also i now use a special ops paintball holster and it fits great in there with my bottom line.

i'll try and see if i can figure out what you mean. is this before or after you bought the #18 puncture seal assembly from RAP4?

I now understand your confusion regarding my solutions:

These are two different solutions that as I was offering you options. The first solution I used was to take apart the stock Delta 68 piercing assembly and add a washer and o-ring as described above. (This was before I learned about the part from RAP4.) This worked well for the bottom line setup but not very well at all if I wanted to run off 12 grams.

Once I found out about the RAP4 part working in the Delta it became my second solution and replaced the original piercing assembly and everything I had done to it. The RAP4 part is a drop in replacement and is the easiest solution. In the original thread I believe the forumer who told me about it issued a warning about subpar velocity and a possible need for a spring upgrade afterwards but I had no such issues.

Basically, the things I did to the stock piercing/12 gram system are a cheaper alternative if you are only going to use a bottom line while the RAP4 part is the easier solution which allows either the use of a bottom line or 12 grams but is more expensive.

so i'm gonna try and make my own so i should do the first option then right? not the RAP4 part?

did you get it from RAP4 or else where? i can't seem to find it anywhere else for that cheap ($8.00+shipping)

I got it from RAP4, I don't think I even looked anywhere else.

When you look at the top of the magazine there is a oval hole near the rear of the mag just in front of the rear sight. That is the hole I am thinking about enlarging. One of the reasons I haven't done so yet is I want to make sure I only take off the metal I need to remove and no more. A mistake here could interfere with the plug staying in place or even cause feeding stoppages. so long as you don't do it too close to the end of the mag (towards the quick release cap) it shouldn't be a problem. i might just try that on one of my spare mags. or i might try to make it big enough to shove a small hopper into it....hmmm to the drawing board!

They used to make a hopper adapter for the PT series pistols. It was pricey, but worked okay. If you can find a picture of one it might provide additional ideas.

never even heard of one. i've been looking at getting a Zeus G1/G2 hopper adapter but they run cheapest $30+shipping

Since you have spare mags . . . I might just wait for you to modify one and see how it turns out. Big smile

I am considering it plus not only will reloading be easier, i might just make the hole big enough to hold a mini 50 round hopper too (even with a hole that big it the reload cap would still keep the paintballs from falling out if i didn't use the hopper.) also if you want spare mags look on ebay, don't search for delta .68 mags, they run for $30 but search for PT extreme mags, closer to $15 i think

-------------
Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 04 September 2010 at 3:08pm

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

I now understand your confusion regarding my solutions:

These are two different solutions that as I was offering you as options. The first solution I used was to take apart the stock Delta 68 piercing assembly and add a washer and o-ring as described above. (This was before I learned about the part from RAP4.) This worked well for the bottom line setup but not very well at all if I wanted to run off 12 grams.

Once I found out about the RAP4 part working in the Delta it became my second solution and replaced the original piercing assembly and everything I had done to it. The RAP4 part is a drop in replacement and is the easiest solution. In the original thread I believe the forumer who told me about it issued a warning about subpar velocity and a possible need for a spring upgrade afterwards but I had no such issues.

Basically, the things I did to the stock piercing/12 gram system are a cheaper alternative if you are only going to use a bottom line while the RAP4 part is the easier solution which allows either the use of a bottom line or 12 grams but is more expensive.

so i'm gonna try and make my own so i should do the first option then right? not the RAP4 part?

If you mean you are making your own bottom line the answer is "yes." You should be able to make the bottom line work with the modifications to the existing puncture assembly and save yourself the cost of the part from RAP4. Just keep in mind that you won't be able to use 12 grams with those modifications. (When I said it doesn't work so well with 12 grams earlier, that was humorous understatement; 12 grams won't work at all with that mod due to the lack of a puncture pin.)

I did have to experiment with o-ring sizes a bit to get a good seal but I had a selection on hand from various other paintball and non-paintball related projects so that wasn't an issue for me. (Thank goodness for ACE hardware.)

i might just make the hole big enough to hold a mini 50 round hopper too (even with a hole that big it the reload cap would still keep the paintballs from falling out if i didn't use the hopper.)

Now it's my turn to be confused. If you mod a magazine for a 50 round hopper, wouldn't you have to remove the end cap from it entirely? How are you planning on getting the balls/hopper to stay securely in place. (I can see if the hopper was all the way inside the mag the end cap wouldn't be needed but I'm not sure I'd trust a friction-fit for this on the field.)

also if you want spare mags look on ebay, don't search for delta .68 mags, they run for $30 but search for PT extreme mags, closer to $15 i think

I'm not certain I will need additional mags based on projected usage, but I will keep that in mind.

-------------

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 05 September 2010 at 4:19am

Mack wrote:

tarrguy57 wrote:

Mack wrote:

well i won't really care if i use 12g ever again. cost too much replacing o-rings and cartridges 8p

so i'm gonna try and make my own so i should do the first option then right? not the RAP4 part?

i'll have to see if i can figure this out or not

i would have to remove the reload cap in order to use a hopper. i don't think it would be that big of an issue. kinda weary of trying it cuz i don't want to end up scrapping the entire mag

also if you want spare mags look on ebay, don't search for delta .68 mags, they run for $30 but search for PT extreme mags, closer to $15 i think

I'm not certain I will need additional mags based on projected usage, but I will keep that in mind.

makes reloads so much easier. i just played a game today with my new pistol and it is so much faster to remove the empty mag, put it in a slot on my holster, pull out a new mag, place it on, and shoot than to remove the reload cap, either count 10 rounds or use a 10 round tube, put the cap back on, then shoot. i've probably decreased my reload time drastically. trying to decided if i want one more mag (so i have 2 for each gun, and if i do it, 1 mag each modified to hold a hopper)

i'll get pics up later today of what i'm thinking and of my pistol with the butchered bottom line. gotta wait for imageshack to authorize my account which apparently takes "15 minutes" (its been 3 hours)

-------------
Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 05 September 2010 at 4:32pm

ok so here is a picture of what i'm thinking for the hopper fed mag.

(i don't know why but it keeps saying the image path/location doesn't exsist)

http://img824.imageshack.us/i/0905000238.jpg/ - http://img824.imageshack.us/i/0905000238.jpg/ ">

by drilling the hole where the red circle is the reload cap could still be used when the hopper isn't inserted. as for how it will stay, probably tape for now either around the feed tube or up and over the top of the hopper down to the gun.

here are some pics of my bottom line setup. yes i know it looks ugly as hell but it was free and cam with a 3.5 oz tank (i traded my silver delta that stood out like a sore thumb in the woods for this black one with a bottom line already installed and he gave me a 3.5oz tank to go with it)

http://img291.imageshack.us/i/0905000237b.jpg/ - http://img291.imageshack.us/i/0905000237b.jpg/ ">

http://img823.imageshack.us/i/0905000237a.jpg/ - http://img823.imageshack.us/i/0905000237a.jpg/ ">

http://img413.imageshack.us/i/0905000237.jpg/ - http://img413.imageshack.us/i/0905000237.jpg/ ">

-------------
Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 05 September 2010 at 10:15pm

That's different (the bottom line set up), I really expected it to come into the valve from below.

-------------

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 12:44am

Well I got motivated enough to do some milling on the Delta 68 magazine. It took all day since I only took off a little at a time and tested continuously, the feed hole probably still needs to be enlarged a bit, but upon testing it seems to work quite well and to not have caused any problems so far.

-------------

Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 1:41am

Mack wrote:

That's different (the bottom line set up), I really expected it to come into the valve from below.

ya not really want i would've done but it gets the job done. hopefully i'll be finishing off my tippmann this week. got my sight rail today and looks awesome. has adjustment knobs for elevation and wind! flipping sweet!!! and it cost less than 1/2 of other ones that were way worse. gonna hit up the seller for a refund and see if they will let me keep it (i have reason to it was marked NIB and it came beat all to hell.) i got a few other things coming but Amazon/ebay are taking FOREVER to ship cuz everyone is using flat rate boxes from USPS! i would rather pay a few extra dollars and get real 3-day shipping rather than this crap USPS offers. i'll probably get the stuff i need to make another bottom line this week too so i can have a full setup (main gun, pistols, gear to wear) and just be done for awhile.

Mack wrote:

Well I got motivated enough to do some milling on the Delta 68 magazine. It took all day since I only took off a little at a time and tested continuously, the feed hole probably still needs to be enlarged a bit, but upon testing it seems to work quite well and to not have caused any problems so far.

post some pics so i can see how its going since i'm planning on giving this a try. still debating about whether i want to buy an extra mag so i'll have 2 mags for each pistol.

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 12:57pm

Some pics related to a lot of the stuff we've discussed:

The standard Delta 68 valve disassembled. The middle piece is the part I left out for my constant air modification.

The filter with the washer placed in position on top of it. Just screw this back where it goes with the washer in place.

The puncture(less) assembly. You can see part of the washer from this angle. I put the o-ring in from this end and seated it against the washer the best I could. Then I reinstalled this piece and put on my constant air adapter. (Some fiddling/experimentation was necessary to get the dummy 12 gram in tight enough but once it was set and the release handle was locked down I had no leakage.)

The pistol with the constant air set-up in place. The dummy 12 gram is not locked down because swapping between 12 grams and CA is easy with the replacement RAP4 piercing assembly.

The modified mag. Any ball that is not perfectly round will stick as shown below (which is handy for this picture). A little bit more milling should resolve this issue. I may or may not "clean up" the area to make it look nice as I tend to appreciate function more than form.

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 7:18pm

Mack wrote:

Some pics related to a lot of the stuff we've discussed:

The standard Delta 68 valve disassembled. The middle piece is the part I left out for my constant air modification.

The filter with the washer placed in position on top of it. Just screw this back where it goes with the washer in place.

The pistol with the constant air set-up in place. The dummy 12 gram is not locked down because swapping between 12 grams and CA is easy with the replacement RAP4 piercing assembly.

pretty sweet. what kind of bottom line did you use? i had to grind a bit of the pistol grip and the bottom line cuz there was a huge gap between the them. thats basically what i was planning on doing. then using my small brass eagle 50 round hopper with a bit of electrical tape to make it snug i'd just shove it on top

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 10:45pm

^^^ I'm assuming you are referring to the ASA (Air Source Adapter--the part the tank goes into) with the question above. It is an old Tippmann 98 ASA that I had in my spare parts collection. I used it because it was the only one I had designed for the hose at the front.

I've dealt with the gap between ASA and hand grip on several projects, it's annoying.

If you don't want to cut up your magazine I had an idea I was working on quite some time ago for an inexpensive adapter for a small hopper on this marker.* While I have no clue where the partially finished project is (I looked) I will see if I can do something up in MSPaint that kind of explains it and add it to this post later.

Edited Update:

Here are the plans. The adapter is designed to fit directly on the marker with the magazine removed.

Please keep in mind that I never finished this, although I may have to work with the idea again, and drew up the diagrams from memory. (I got to the stage where the piece of 10-round tube would be put in and didn't have enough on hand that I felt comfortable cutting any of them up.) The main issue in parts selection is to find a piece of PVC that your hopper can be made to fit snugly into. It also probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add some washers between the screw heads/nuts and the PVC material. One other thing that isn't really shown below is some filing/Dremel usage would probably be required to "sharpen" the edges at the bottom of the adapter so they grasp the rails on the marker tightly.

Although I didn't do it with the prototype, if I do mess with this idea again there are two changes I would consider if I could find a PVC fitting the right size:

Leaving the back long enough to allow attachment at the rearmost of the three sight rails on the marker itself. (On the theory that attaching at three places is better than attaching at just two)
Leaving the front longer and seeing if it is possible to mount either a flashlight or laser inside it.

*Actually, the original idea involved the attachment of a stock and a Q-Loader but a small hopper would work as well.

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 12:01am

)

Mack wrote:

^^^ I'm assuming you are referring to the ASA (Air Source Adapter--the part the tank goes into) with the question above. It is an old Tippmann 98 ASA that I had in my spare parts collection. I used it because it was the only one I had designed for the hose at the front.

I've dealt with the gap between ASA and hand grip on several projects, it's annoying.

If you don't want to cut up your magazine I had an idea I was working on quite some time ago for an inexpensive adapter for a small hopper on this marker.* While I have no clue where the partially finished project is (I looked) I will see if I can do something up in MSPaint that kind of explains it and add it to this post later.

Edited Update:

Here are the plans. The adapter is designed to fit directly on the marker with the magazine removed.

Please keep in mind that I never finished this (although I may have to work with the idea again) and drew up the diagrams from memory. The main issue in parts selection is to find a piece of PVC that your hopper can be made to fit snugly into. It also probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add some washers between the screw heads/nuts and the PVC material. One other thing that isn't really shown below is some filing/Dremel usage would probably be required to "sharpen" the edges at the bottom of the adapter so they grasp the rails on the marker tightly.

Although I didn't do it with the prototype, if I do mess with this idea again there are two changes I would consider if I could find a PVC fitting the right size:

Leaving the back long enough to allow attachment at the rearmost of the three sight rails on the marker itself. (On the theory that attaching at three places is better than attaching at just two)
Leaving the front longer and seeing if it is possible to mount either a flashlight or laser inside it.

*Actually, the original idea involved the attachment of a stock and a Q-Loader but a small hopper would work as well.

ya i meant the ASA i always forget what those are called. your idea for a hopper adapter is really interesting. a laser or flashlight would be cool if A. the laser was bright enough or B. you were playing in a low light situation that would constitute a flashlight being remotely necessary. not quite following what you mean about attachment on 3 sight rails or even how you intend to attach this at all. why the 10-round tube on the inside? wouldn't you think that if you fit it snuggly enough to the gun the balls would make it there on their own? the idea of a qloader is quite funny but the guy who i traded pistols with (traded my stock delta for his modified delta and a 4oz tank, totally sweet deal on my end since i traded an crappy beat up 98 for the delta) he originally had the end cap (where the spring attaches) removed and put the end of the qloader there so he "would have an extra 10 rounds." not that it would matter. how were you planning on putting a stock on a delta .68? this is where a "you should just buy a TPX/T8/T68 pistol cuz they are already set up for all of that" comes to mind lol but it would still be awesome.

on a side note: finally got my Tapco folding stock! took flipping forever to get here. i hate flat rate shipping from USPS! i don't care if it is cheaper! i'll pay the extra $2 for you to ship it by UPS! damn! Angry

plus that thing does not fit a 98C at all. it had extra ridges that the original end cap didn't have so i had to sand/file/grind the whole thing till i finally just gave up and clamped it down with a few wood clamps. luckily it was A.C.T. ready so i didn't have to deal with that. once i got it to fit it looked sweet and felt great, no need to get a shotgun pad for the end, maybe just for comfort but it is just the perfect length. it is really hard to fold though! i had to stand it up on a table and push really hard down to make it swing out of the way. hopefully with use it will be easier. looks great with my sight rail too actually. i'll get a picture up once i get my barrel which will hopefully be here this week. after that i'm just waiting for my tac vest ($60 vest for $36 on amazon! Big smile

) and my new holster to match my right one. then my only project is to make a bottom line for my other pistol and i am all set for whatever. no need to buy anything for a long time i hope Wink

Edit Update: just checked shipment tracking and my barrel will be here tomorrow! so excited

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!

Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 09 September 2010 at 12:52am

tarrguy57 wrote:

ya i meant the ASA i always forget what those are called. your idea for a hopper adapter is really interesting. a laser or flashlight would be cool if A. the laser was bright enough

From experience lasers are generally only bright enough indoors.

or B. you were playing in a low light situation that would constitute a flashlight being remotely necessary.

I've played some CQB games where a light was definitely necessary if you managed to get to the point of entering the building.

not quite following what you mean about attachment on 3 sight rails or even how you intend to attach this at all.

If you take the magazine off of the Delta 68 there are three short (<1/2") sight rails on the top of the marker. Two of them are behind the breech opening and one is in front of it. The cut along the bottom of the PVC piece results in opening the bottom of that length of PVC tubing. (Think of a "C" with the opening facing down.) The material on either side of this opening fits on the aforementioned rails and is clamped in place by the screws and nuts.

why the 10-round tube on the inside? wouldn't you think that if you fit it snuggly enough to the gun the balls would make it there on their own?

The vertical piece of the adapter has to be big enough for the hopper to fit into. This means the inner diameter will be somewhat larger than the diameter of a paintball. This allows the balls stacked in the adapter to not be in a straight line which might cause feeding issues. While such a problem is unlikely, a jam or misfeed in the lower part of the adapter, where the cross piece is open to the vertical piece is much more likely. (I want the paintballs to go into the breech, not to roll forward or backward into the piece of PVC that attaches to the marker.) The inner tube (made from a 10 round tube) ensures the paint goes only into the breech.

the idea of a qloader is quite funny but the guy who i traded pistols with (traded my stock delta for his modified delta and a 4oz tank, totally sweet deal on my end since i traded an crappy beat up 98 for the delta) he originally had the end cap (where the spring attaches) removed and put the end of the qloader there so he "would have an extra 10 rounds." not that it would matter. how were you planning on putting a stock on a delta .68?

Easiest way is to by a T-Stock and screw it into the ASA. (This would necessitate attaching the air source to the T-Stock, but that is fairly easy.) My original idea was quite a bit more custom and included attachment points at both the ASA and the rear-most of the three sight rails (via a modified dove-tail mount) on the top of the marker. I never ended up doing it because, do to a field closing, building interior CQB games became a lot less likely to occur.

The plan was basically to turn the Delta in to a semi-automatic submachine gun through the addition of a custom stock, the feed adapter, a Q-loader and a 13 cu. in. air tank. For the buildings we were using at the time a 100 rounds was way more than enough for any member of the entry team and the short barrel of the Delta in combination with a stock would have shifted all the weight to the users shoulder making for a marker with very quick handling characteristics.

this is where a "you should just buy a TPX/T8/T68 pistol cuz they are already set up for all of that" comes to mind lol but it would still be awesome.

None of those was free. Plus a pistol is 8-12 rounds which is much less than 100 rounds without reloading.

plus that thing does not fit a 98C at all. it had extra ridges that the original end cap didn't have

It was for the newer 98 bodies and it sounds like you have an older one.

so i had to sand/file/grind the whole thing till i finally just gave up and clamped it down with a few wood clamps. luckily it was A.C.T. ready so i didn't have to deal with that. once i got it to fit it looked sweet and felt great, no need to get a shotgun pad for the end, maybe just for comfort but it is just the perfect length. it is really hard to fold though! i had to stand it up on a table and push really hard down to make it swing out of the way. hopefully with use it will be easier. looks great with my sight rail too actually. i'll get a picture up once i get my barrel which will hopefully be here this week. after that i'm just waiting for my tac vest ($60 vest for $36 on amazon! Big smile

) and my new holster to match my right one. then my only project is to make a bottom line for my other pistol and i am all set for whatever. no need to buy anything for a long time i hope Wink

Edit Update: just checked shipment tracking and my barrel will be here tomorrow! so excited

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Posted By: tarrguy57
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 6:19pm

haven't heard from anyone in awhile. anyone have any suggestions for a front grip mounted under the barrel shroud and a magazine to cover up the stock front grip?

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Just a regular guy playing with a regular 98...ya right!