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Topic: Legal Advice
Posted By: Snake6
Subject: Legal Advice
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 1:05pm
As some of you know, I recently quit my job to go work for a new company. My former employer didn't take my leaving very well and some things were said that were not very respectful to me. As such, I emailed him my letter of resignation and quit immediately since it was a "no notice" job.

Today he calls me and tells me that I wasn't doing my work properly and now he is going to lose money(there were no complaints before this), and he told me that they were holding my last paycheck and that he wanted me to come in today and fix it. I told him no, as I had already made plans for the day and I was no longer employed by him. He then threatens to sue me for the money he claims to have lost due to me and proceeds to yell at me over the phone so I hang up, as I don't take being threatened or yelled at.

Also, I was working under the table and had never filled out an application or I-9 or any paperwork for that matter other than a NDA.

My questions are: Legally speaking, can he hold my last paycheck? Also can he sue me because he says I did work improperly? If he does sue me can I counter sue for tarnishing my reputation? Can he contact my current employer and get me in trouble there?




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Replies:
Posted By: God
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 1:14pm

How much money is in queston? Most likely it isnt worth anyones time. It may seem like alot to you right now but in the grand scheme of thing it isnt going to be much. Sounds like a bunch of hurt feelings to me.



And as long as what he says is true or stated what he say is his opinion, he can say what he wants to whom ever.

Also some of your questions are way too specific and need more information... If you really want to pursue this, which I think would be a waste of time, especailly if your too busy to change weekend plans to solve this deliema, then talk to a free legal advisor, i am sure there are some in your area, and they can help you.







Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 1:31pm
Its really not much money, like $400 total. We were talking on IRC and MBro linked me over to the state law regarding it here: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+40.1-29

The TL;DR is that an employer can for no reason withhold wages, and if they do there is a form you can fill out, and the state will instigate and recoup your wages for you.

So what I am really concerned about is that the employer will sue for damages or w/e. Also I am concerned it will hurt my job opportunities in the future as he will be giving me a bad reference.


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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 1:58pm
Did you sign a contractual agreement on taking the job? Many times stuffed in the paperwork will be a implied 'contract' requiring certian actions before resignation. If so you are pretty well hosed if you do not follow contracted obligations. And yes if this contract exsists the employer can hold back wages until contract obligations resolved, and employer can also sue for failure to comply with the contract.

Use whatever state agencies are available to resolve this, a good mediator can do wonders. Your resume will suffer for awhile, in todays computer age your name and this employer will be linked in a background investigation.

Also an implied 'verbal' contract is legal in some states, so even though under the table, employer can insist there was a verbal contract.

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Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 2:23pm
There was no contract, the job was considered "no notice"

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Posted By: Impulse.
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 2:40pm

Working under the table?

You can't get your check
 
He can't bring you to court.
 
 


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[IMG]http://www.word-detective.com/berry.gif">


Posted By: God
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 3:08pm


Why would being paid under the table matter. Snake has til next spring to pay his taxes?

I dont have much background in this area so I am really asking because I dont know the answer.


Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 4:31pm
Caveat: I am not a lawyer. That said...

A contractual relationship should exist between the two of you regardless of whether or not the job is under the table. Did you sign anything from him along the lines of an offer of employment? "Snake6 will perform these duties, in return for this amount of remuneration". Something like that.

You not reporting the income come tax time (if you do not) is a separate issue, one that is its own discrete offense. Likely he is guilty (or intends to be guilty) of various offenses involving whatever tax and social benefit obligations belong to am employer in your state. Those are side issues, and do not nullify the contract between the two of you. If there is not written contract, an oral contract is still a legitimate contractual relationship.

Simply inform him that if he wishes your employment arrangement to stay 'under the table', he'll give you your check and you'll both say nothing further on the matter. Failing that, he may subsequently become liable for whatever he might have to pay, and quite likely will receive some sort of scrutiny and perhaps a tax audit.

Since you're apparently committing (or intend to commit) income tax fraud, I don't have a lick of sympathy for the position you find yourself in- however, he stands to lose far more than you should bring some official notice to this, and frankly I've got a bigger problem with an employer exploiting an employee. You're both in the wrong, but him more so, and you have a hell of a good way to screw him right back if he pushes it.

I would also tell your current employer that you're in a dispute with your past one, in case he should decide to tarnish your reputation with your current employer.

Finally, I won't preach on the tax evasion issue, but just realize that in the future if you end up in one of any number of public sector jobs, law enforcement, government, etc, you might find yourself subject to a polygraph test, and they often like to ask whether you've ever knowingly withheld income from disclosure for taxation purposes. Weigh your options on this one...


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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 5:15pm
It seems to me it's illegal for him to try to tarnish your reputation. Even if your current job called him and asked about you, they cannot give a bad reference. They can say they wouldn't hire you again, but that's about it. If they actively called your new employer to be butthurt to them, they would be shooting themselves in the knees.


Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Even if your current job called him and asked about you, they cannot give a bad reference.


False. as long as the information is job related and evidence based, sure they can.


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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 19 September 2010 at 12:06am
I'll stand by what I said in chat, it is illegal for him to withhold your wages so file your complaint but be sure to declare on your next tax return what you were paid in cash. If you taxes due will be more than what you are owed just let it go.

If you choose to pursue it you will win. The law is clear on this one.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.


Posted By: Brian Fellows
Date Posted: 19 September 2010 at 3:12pm
Sounds like he be hornswagglin' ye.  If I were ye, I'd be keelhaulin' the scurvy bilge-rat.


Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 19 September 2010 at 3:20pm
Skin hat, tech-9, etc. 


Posted By: PaiNTbALLfReNzY
Date Posted: 19 September 2010 at 4:30pm
His plan to make you come in was an obvious skin hat attempt. Good thing you baulked (sp?).

Edit: Damnit, whale beat me to skin hat.


Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 24 September 2010 at 7:13pm
Recieved this today:

I sent them a certified letter to prompt this response.

Quote
We mailed a check to you with both weeks combined hours and received it back undeliverable. We verified your address that you presented us on a federal form and found it was not correct. You may stop by to pick up a check but you will be required to fill out a new W-9 form and we will need to verify your address and SS#  before we present your check. By law you must fill this out. The one you did fill out was not correct or you failed to provide the necessary information. We will provide the Federal and State Tax departments with this information. We will also provide you with a yearly statement for your tax purposes.

 

 When you come in please bring ID/or driver's license which has your current address and social security number and we will provide you with the forms. You may also download the forms online but we will still need to verify the information.


Any suggestions? I thought a w-4 was teh correct form? Also I have not changed my address since I started working for them, they obviously consulted a lawyer.




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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 24 September 2010 at 11:10pm
Sounds fair. Do you know if they've hired others under the table? If so, report 'em. Since they've decided the rules now matter, they won't mind.

-------------
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: Snake6
Date Posted: 25 September 2010 at 9:30am
Got this late last night as well:

Quote

just so you know, we have tried to call you a couple of times and we did not receive a call back. Also, you do not give us enough time to respond to your emails.  Though we try to follow up within 48 hours with our customers and employees, it is not always possible.  Since you left our company with two days notice, we are handling two stores and we are on the road right after work to go to (edited). We're not always accessible to respond to your emails on your time constraints. If you want instant information please call us.  You know the store's phone number, our cell phone number, and you know where we are located.  Your check has been waiting for you in the (edited)  store.

 

Also, we are gravely disappointed in your quality of work the last couple weeks you worked. Not only did you break a motherboard when you were installing it (remember you said "I am stupid, stupid stupid" for hooking  up the power on the motherboard wrong.) You ended up burning up the motherboard at a cost to us at $177.  Then   we have had several computers come back,  and one computer you lost all their data. Not only did you erase the recovery partition by using a system builders disk instead of the F11 system recovery, you also lost the back up data. The customers are angry and coming after us.  Not knowing how to do this correctly shows your lack of computer knowledge in this area, which we already have trained you on, but you continue to want to do things your way.  We told you numerous times if you did not know how to do something, to ask, but you said several times that you were highly trained by the government and knew what you were doing.

 

 After reviewing the security cameras at the (edited) store the last 7 days of your employment, we are very distrubed how much time you spent walking around, texting, talking on the cell phone,while computers on the table were waiting for you to repair them. Then at the last moment you swiftly started working on the computers. Now we have most of them back along with irrate customers who we have lost and are bad mouthing us because of your poor computer knowledge. We gave you an opportunity, left you in charge of our brand new store in (edited), only to possibly loose it due to your bad practices. Even after you gave us 2 days notice of leaving, (which a week prior you said you would give us 30 days notice.) you assured us that you would be professional and give us 100% quality work, but all you have given us is a hefty bill and possible legal action.

 

Though you have stated this is "not your problem any longer" , it seriously may be if legal action is taken against us.

None of what they are saying is true, and now they are putting words into my mouth. Its amazing how before I quit they were very pleased with my work, and now this...




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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 September 2010 at 11:23am
Shens. It they're so desperate to save the couple hundred bucks they owe you, they sure as he'll won't spend the cash on legal fees to 'take legal action'.

Simply tell them the score: you get your check, you're done with them and nothin more will be said.

All you want is your last pay check, which by law you are entitled to regardless of all other circumstances. If they wish to get stupid about it and push the issue farther that's their choice, but they have more to lose.

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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 25 September 2010 at 12:08pm
They probably have a whole lot more to lose if you let the IRS know they've been paying people under the table than you do if they tattle on you for taking money under the table.


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BU Engineering 2012


Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 25 September 2010 at 2:25pm
Make sure you are taking what everyone is saying into account with a grain of salt. You start threatening to report them to the IRS for under-the-table pay practices, thinking that they'll(the IRS) let you go in order to go after your former employer; you are opening the door to things like extortion and blackmail charges from your former place of employment.


Plus, if you really WERE lollygagging in your last week at work, and it came to court, I imagine that it would be quite admissible in court.


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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo


Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 25 September 2010 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Make sure you are taking what everyone is saying into account with a grain of salt. You start threatening to report them to the IRS for under-the-table pay practices, thinking that they'll(the IRS) let you go in order to go after your former employer; you are opening the door to things like extortion and blackmail charges from your former place of employment.


Plus, if you really WERE lollygagging in your last week at work, and it came to court, I imagine that it would be quite admissible in court.


I believe for an extortion charge to be substantiated an individual must unlawfully, by use of some threat, gain some thing or advantage to which they would not otherwise be entitled. "Give me my paycheck or I'll report you to the IRS" could not possibly be construed as extortion, because a) he's earned his paycheck anyway and is owed it, and b) reporting an offence is not something for which you can be charged. Further, all he has to do is report all his income (which he should do anyway) and the IRS is no problem for him.

The other issues are separate. If he was bagging it at work, that's his problem, but for them (the employer) to make an issue of it would be difficult for them to pursue. Remember that their motivation is the bottom line. If he makes it cheaper for them to give him his paycheck than to continue being dicks, he'll get it.


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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.


Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 25 September 2010 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Make sure you are taking what everyone is saying into account with a grain of salt. You start threatening to report them to the IRS for under-the-table pay practices, thinking that they'll(the IRS) let you go in order to go after your former employer; you are opening the door to things like extortion and blackmail charges from your former place of employment.


Plus, if you really WERE lollygagging in your last week at work, and it came to court, I imagine that it would be quite admissible in court.


I believe for an extortion charge to be substantiated an individual must unlawfully, by use of some threat, gain some thing or advantage to which they would not otherwise be entitled. "Give me my paycheck or I'll report you to the IRS" could not possibly be construed as extortion, because a) he's earned his paycheck anyway and is owed it, and b) reporting an offence is not something for which you can be charged. Further, all he has to do is report all his income (which he should do anyway) and the IRS is no problem for him.

The other issues are separate. If he was bagging it at work, that's his problem, but for them (the employer) to make an issue of it would be difficult for them to pursue. Remember that their motivation is the bottom line. If he makes it cheaper for them to give him his paycheck than to continue being dicks, he'll get it.


It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but the theme that started to be cropping up more and more was that he should threaten them with informing the IRS of their non-payment, regardless of his under the table status, which i imagine goes back past the most recent tax deadline. 

US Legal explains that black mail is illegal because "the information is usually substantially true, it is not revealing the information that is criminal, but demanding money to withhold it."

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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo


Posted By: ammolord
Date Posted: 26 September 2010 at 2:28am
Not sure if this has been said, im too tired to read it all. But, from what im getting from the career center at the school, a former employer cannot give any information other than the dates you were employed with them. not sure exactly if thats just in ND or everywere, but thats what iv got to add to the topic.

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PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx


~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~



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