Obama advocates longer school year
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Topic: Obama advocates longer school year
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Subject: Obama advocates longer school year
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 3:57pm
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Hmm. This ought to get interesting. Seems like numbers are down, and now it sounds like he is pushing for a year round school. Not saying I don't agree, but I wonder how well this will go over with the teachers union which he was heavily backed by from my understanding.......
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100927/us_yblog_upshot/obama-calls-for-longer-school-year - http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100927/us_yblog_upshot/obama-calls-for-longer-school-year ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Replies:
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 3:59pm
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School all year round is fine if the schools days are half the time. School all year with the same times or longer school days are useless. I doubt kids will pay attention at all half the time. ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:07pm
| someone doesn't know how year-round school works |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:08pm
| School all year round wont happen, the whole concept of summer is too culturally engrained to be broken anytime soon. More school days is a good thing though, we're way too big on doing the bare minimum. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:11pm
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It seems like a good idea. The rest of the world is generally testing better than we are, and the ones who are not are catching up fast. Part of the reason our schooling schedule has maintained the silly break it has - with that much length - is because 1) Teachers unions will complain about having to work the same hours as other folks, 2) Back in the day kids were needed to plant/harvest during break times, and 3) HVAC didn't exist, and kids tend to not pay attention well when it is 97*. It's at least worth considering and slowing adapting a longer school year as not to spook everyone involved. Oh, wait, Obama said it? This is clearly a socialist takeover of the education system to make us more like the communists in Europe and Asia. Home school your kids before the moonbats teach them evolution. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:12pm
If you are talking about me, then that is true. ------------- Que pasa?
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GroupB wrote:Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:16pm
QFT. While I agree that a proper year-round school schedule would be the right move, 'summer break' and everything that comes with it is too much a part of our culture to go anywhere anytime soon. Small, gradual schedule reforms may eventually lead us to a year-round direction, but I don't see it happening all at one sudden time. ------------- 
http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:28pm
Like I said though, I am not against it, but wonder how the union backers that voted heavily in his favor will react. Akin to biting the hand that fed you. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:34pm
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Keeping near the same amount of school days in the schedule but spacing the breaks out better might be helpful since kids data dump so much. I'm on the fence about it, as someone entering the teaching field I could live with time off for spring fishing and hunting season instead of a full summer break, but I did already have several days where it was over 100*F in the classroom w/o AC. Also, this would screw over summer camps in a big way. Optional summer programs would be great, I see the benefits affluent kids get from a structured environment during the summer, even if it isn't academic work. Provide summer programs for decent students at low cost that involve things like field-trips, and have those as incentives for the summer-school crowd. A 3-4 week summer program open to all students could be great. Mandate grade-level performance in certain areas so poor students will have time to make it up, and more electives for other students. I could totally build a curriculum for students to help plan a 3 day hike and actually do it, and if it weren't for stupid MA laws we could set up our climbing wall and maybe get a ropes course in again. Anything is better than having kids in front of the X-Box all day during the summer, and parents don't necessarily have the time to take kids on vacation. As to the lack of need for kids to do work, I'm taking it easy on homework for the next few weeks since it's firewood stacking season in the northeast. Had a 14 year old girl in class today who gave herself a nasty burn from the exhaust on a chainsaw. Kids could use some time to work, especially if their parents aren't going to buy them a car. Working more than 10hrs a week tends to correlate with lower grades during the school year. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:35pm
Relax, killer, that was tongue-in-cheek. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:40pm
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 4:45pm
I agree with you, if it is any consolidation or Internet-hug. People on both sides of the general political viewpoint will flip out, like you said: Labor folks will be in a tizzy about (GASP) having a normal-people schedule, and the lovely Tea Party folks will get the vapors even thinking about a tax increase, even if it is spent on education. It'll never happen at any pace more than tiny little baby steps because of the general populace. |
Posted By: MeanMan
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 5:04pm
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It would be nearly impossible at this point, at least in the Cleveland area.
Almost all of our schools are older, which means NO air conditioning. Yes its cleveland, but an 85* room with 25 people in it with lights on.....
Plus, does he not realize how horribly under-funded the school systems are? Some schools out west got cut to 4 days per week to save money (on the news a while ago). Even suburbs around here cant pass a budget increase for years at a time. Year round would need an immense budget increase just to get the year round school going. Forget about improvements to buildings, newer books, busing repairs.... ------------- 
hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives." |
Posted By: DaveEllis
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 5:11pm
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Year round schooling actually doesn't sound bad. Seeing as the demographic here is not far off from those days, or still there, we all loved summer break...but I think we can all admit that by the end of them they were dragging and you didn't know what to do with yourself. But year round schooling offers nice breaks more frequently...its not a bad system.
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 5:19pm
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While I was in school, I was fully against it. Now, I'm all for it. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 6:24pm
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You want to fix school? Quality first, then quantity.
Right now the little darlings are coddled. Teachers can't fail students because they'll cry and because parents will complain and write letters. Kids are not taught accountability or deadlines, and when they eventually get to college it's a rude kick in the junk when the prof doesn't care to hear excuses. Let teachers evaluate students fairly and hold them to reasonable expectations. Give them homework, and put some onus back on the parents. Not that any of this is likely... ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 6:34pm
| For those of you who think that year round school means going 5 days a week, every week, for a full year, it doesn't. The only difference between the traditional calendar, and year round is that in year round, the summer is spread out through the year. same number of days, same number of hours. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 7:26pm
With that said, I am not against it. I do like the idea of some sort of extended break, but nearly 3 months is a bit much. I would have no problem with kids getting off at the beginning of June and going back at the beginning of August. A two month break is plenty. I can also sympathize with teachers to the extent of needing a break. Hell, as a parent, dealing with kids year round is a pain. I wish I could get a month or two break a year from the ankle biters. However, I do see my own kid struggling at times to get back up to speed after watching ICarly and Americas Top Model for hours on end during the summer. They spend at least 2-4wks just relearning what they forgot over the summer. I did notice a little less of that this year though as she is finally at the point where they are dividing the kids into basic and advanced classes. There seemed to be a lot less reteaching the first couple of weeks at the advanced level and they pretty much got right into it.
What I don't get, it that I see the schools here taking off less time than they did when I was a kid. I remember getting a full two weeks off during Winter break and another full week off for Spring Break. I only remember them having one year where they got a full 10 days off over Christmas and they have never gotten more than a day off for Spring Break. I do remember hearing though that the schools in Florida were starting to go back a lot sooner than they do here. Seemed like almost a full month earlier. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 7:56pm
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Schools now go back earlier in the summer than they did when I was in school. They stay the same amount too. They still have the Christmas Eve-Day after New Years off. Plus a week in spring. Maybe there are more days off during the year though. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 8:28pm
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I know they account for snow days here which is something they obviously didn't do in Florida. I don't see many other days off that we didnt get except obvioulsy MLK day. I also thought we used to get almost the entire week off for Thanksgiving. I could be wrong though. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 8:46pm
| I don't even get spring break at my school, just a slightly longer xmas and I THINK a slightly earlier end. I'd rather have spring break. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 9:33pm
The merit-based funding of NCLB is also partly to blame, I think. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 10:41pm
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I think it's a great idea with maybe just a month break in August since that is traditionally the Western vacation month. But whale does bring up a very good point with HVAC. I never went to once school with actual, commercial grade, or any other grade, AC. Utilitarian school buildings can get sweltering on hot days.
Also school funding is a big issue as well, they tend to rely too much on property taxes as their foundation. I would like to see additional school funding come from a .5% sales tax increase throughout all districts so they can diversify and increase their revenues without being punished. This of course would have to be enforced by the fed placing restrictions to federal funding of education grants on local districts having .5% sales tax education funding. Either way, oh man the unions would whine. Feel free to alter or comment on my proposal. ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 11:14pm
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Locally, the schools are funded through state/federall funds as well as levies. Personally, I think this is a horrendous program. The levies are voted on every couple of years. Sometimes they pass, sometimes they don't. I guess it makes the school districts somewhat answerable to the voting public, but unfortunately when the voters don't approve them because they think the teachers are making too much money, they don't lower the teachers salaries, they simply cut staff. It's ridiculous. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 11:34pm
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Our spring break sucks. It's usually like the second week of march. The beach really doesn't warm up until mid-april, so unless you want to travel south, it's a bit of a moot point.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 11:41pm
Same here. First week of March. And they never make it the same week as the other schools in the area.
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 3:19am
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Ib4 We get it, you African.
Here in Africa we have all year school. We also have temps in excess of 85f. Quite often actually. 85f is a "nice" summer day. We also wear school uniforms, complete with balzers and ties. In summer months you can take the blazer off in school. There is a rumour that if it hits 40C, (105f?) they cancel school, but I've never seen that happen, and then all that would happen is everyone would be sitting around in the sun waiting for their lift as we have no school bus service. Our school year starts late in January (summer) with an autumn break of a week in March, a two week/week and a half holidy in June/July, another week in the end on September and then schools break up again for summer sometime in December. The December holidays are the end of the school year and are approx 3 or 4 weeks long. That worked very well until they introduced OBE. Outcomes Based Education. Something that has failed in every part of the world where they tried it, but no South Africa had to give it a shot as well. We're scrapping that and introducing pass/fail exams again. Our school day also runs from 8am to 2:30pm. Nothing wrong with all year school. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 7:03am
Quite frankly, I'm astounded. I had no idea you people HAD schools. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 7:34am
| What do you mean "you people?" |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 10:50am
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My local school district currently needs over $14,000 per student per year... to give them an education.
(national average per student cost per year is $9,963)
I homeschool my kids at a rate of $1,000 per year in curriculum (for both kids, so around $500 per child). Plus all of the other stuff that is extra. Laptops, Piano, guitar, taekwondo, ballet, horses, art, co-op... which aren't included in a public education setting. I resell my curriculum at year end, so my actual costs are much lower than that, as they hold their value very well, the majority of my costs are lessons, which are extra curricular.
Homeschooled kids get a better education based on studies, and score higher than their counterparts in public schools. And many homeschooled kids are instructed year round. (we did it this summer, and it worked very well for our family) It allowed us to take more time off when we wanted, to travel and visit sites that furthered the studies of that time.
Actually this past weekend we took the RV down to Gatlinburg to Wonderworks, and the Dixie stampede. Awesome time, and part of their education.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf - http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf
Typical homeschooled students score 34-39% higher than the normal public educated students on standardized tests.
So the ultimate question is why are home schooled kids doing better? And how can public schools mirror that excellence in education?
Personally, I think this is because of the self directed focus of homeschooling. Most homeschoolers I know are self directed, meaning they have a schedule but they take it upon themselves to complete the tasks set before them. Where in public school, the teacher tells you what you are going to do each day... This limits the child the ability to manage their own time to get their work done the fastest way possible so they can go play... In public school, you are there, and you can't just go play.
I don't see how adding more time, will increase the test scores... Public schools already teach to the test... and focus only on test results regardless of long term results. This method of education has proven to yield lackluster results.
School has to be fun, and learning should be fun.
Homeschool wins the "fun" factor because of this benefit. (plus it teaches an important work-reward principle that is avoided in the public school setting). Also, you can fit curriculum to the student, instead of a one size fits all like public schools. We use different curriculums for our kids as they learn differently, and we want a curriculum that works with their gifts, instead of something that they struggle with.
My 13 year old writes books for fun. And they are unbelievable. This isn't "school" work, (but it clearly is) it is something she enjoys doing. So much so that she writes and prints out copies that her friends pass around to each other. Many of her friends are now participating and writing their own books.
Also not part of "school", as they are just having fun. Is it educational?... Of course.
And that is where public school fails. Public schools have taken the fun out of education. Until they get back to the fun, it won't succeed. No matter how much money you throw at it.
Our local homeschooling conference got some press today. This is run by our friends and is one of the larger homeschooling conventions in the country now. This past summer had over 15,000 people attend.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39342787/ns/today-parenting/ - http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39342787/ns/today-parenting/
The stigma that homeschooled kids are socially backward and unable to "cope" with the real world is finally being changed, as the facts are coming out, and the proof is in the education. ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 11:10am
Are you factoring in food costs to that equation? Not only that, but house payments, utility payments during times of education, etc. The "Cost of schooling" per-child has less to do with the cost of curriculum and more to do with infrastructure. I'm fine with homeschooling as a concept, and in areas where one may not live in a good school district I think it is acceptable, as long as it is done correctly. It's sad, at least where I come from, to see the amount of people who will homeschool their children on the single issue of not wanting them taught evolution and health sciences.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 11:47am
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^^^^ Also not factoring in the costs of having the "Teacher" not bringing in an income. Sure my wife could stay home and teach my three kids, but we would be out her income and the health insurance that it provides. If I had an equal option of healthcare through my current employer, we could probably do without her income, but we don't have that option. Plus, to be quite honest, my wife has no interest in staying at home all day with the kids and playing teacher. Also, there comes a time when the kids would be old enough that they simply would have to go to school. Even as it is, we are both having to reach waaaaayyy back to try and remember some of the math that our oldest is bringing home. And it isn't going to get any better.
If you want a fair comparison, I do have to ask why the local Catholic school system only charges about $500/month tuition per student.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 12:15pm
I know a bunch of single parents who homeschool... And work full time.
You brought up another problem with public schools. Why are the children bringing home homework? How many hours do they spend at school... And they still have homework?... Why?...
My kids spend a maximum of 40 minutes per subject.
maximum.
Sometimes they get their stuff done in 15-20 minutes. As it is all about time managment. THEIR time managment. If they want to sit there all day to finish their assignments... fine. But, they are smart enough to know that if they just buckle down they will be finished. So they do.
My wife (teacher in public school setting) isn't really a "teacher" the way you guys think. She is more of a planner/scheduler. She and I pick curriculum. And then she figures out how many lessons are needed to complete it, and then plans each week, and each day, so that by the end of the year the student is done.
All of this is input into our tracking software, which records daily grades and test results, as well as what was completed for college transcripts...
But, the student is the one that is doing the work, and learning. The student is taught how to find the answers and rarely they need help. Maybe once a day...
This is the same thing that happens in most schools, it is just that teachers have convinced the public that johnny student is too dumb to do anything without a certified highly paid teacher there at their beck and call...
And then they send home tons of homework, which the parents end up helping the kids do, as the kids don't know how to do it themselves... Because they aren't learning how to learn, but only how to regurgitate for the test... And taking tons of time to do a small project...
Look at the results... That is the key.
My youngest is 10, a few nights ago, she was in our basement, playing. She came up and showed me what she had just done. (hand drew, then painted).
 unreal... And for "fun".
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 12:32pm
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Big difference between one adult helping two kids all day long and one adult helping 20/class 8 times a day. Of course if one teacer was spending all day long with my three kids, they would easily have all their homework done during school, so it isn't a fair comparison. As for homework, we help our kids when they have issues, but it is far from us doing it. It aggravates me more that she has 2 studdy periods during the day and chooses to gossip with her friends rather than do her homework, than complains when she gets home that she doesn't have time to finish it. And as for higher test scores, you can account for this I would imagine by genetics and decent parenting. You aren't typically going to find lower income/lower education families home schooling their kids. It would be like comparing the IQ's of college graduates with those that didn't finish high school. Of course the average scores are going to be higher, as I would imagine a higher proportion of parents that choose to home school are high school graduates at a minimum and in a lot of cases college graduates. Also, consider that the curriculum being taught, was almost certainly devised by someone with a graduate or doctoral degree. It isn't like Johnny Ditchdigger is writing books about cyphering and stuff. Cute picture, but artistic talent has little to do with whether you homeschool or not. Unless you can provide me with any study proving that home schooled kids are more artistically inclined, it's pretty irrelevant. My public educated kid draws stuff all the time, reads constantly and scores in the top 2% on nearly every standardized test in every category. She also has parents that are involved, knows all of her teachers on a first name basis and checks her grades online on a daily or weekly basis depending on how things are going. And I notice a trend, that most of the other kids in her classes that are doing well, have equally involved parents. Typically, the kids whose parents I never see at Open House, soccer practice, games or any other extra curricular activity are the ones that are doing poorly. The result you get out of kids seems to be pretty compenserate with the effort you put into them.
And little of this has any relevance on extending the school year which is the point of this thread. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 12:56pm
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Actually, it does have to do with extending the school year.
The kids who's parents are involved take an interest in said child. That focus, generates a response in the child (better grades to please parent).
Which improves performance.
Extending the school year will make zero difference to that response, some parents will still care and pay attention, some won't.
All it will do is increase the cost.
Until public education figures out how to make education "fun" they will continue to struggle with poor grades.
Throwing money at the issue (like extending the school year to summers) will not increase abilities. Truth is, Obama got rid of the school vouchers program... Which was clearly helping students...
When you see an action like that... it makes it hard to believe he cares at all about the public schools, especially since his kids aren't even in it...
But, I am torn, as I truly think Obama wants to make our education system better... So he has good intentions.
But, good intentions typically end up just spending more money on a losing proposition.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 1:34pm
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School wasn't fun for me, and I graduated and went on to college, so 'fun" isn't a necessary part of having a successful school experience. I assure you European, and Asian schools are no more fun than ours are, and they are doing just fine. Some would have you beleive better. IMO, one of the main issues with school is the failure to seperate at an earlier age, those that are able to learn at an accelerated pace from those that can't. Too many times, my daughter was put into the "exclusion class" where she was saddled not only with learning what she needed to learn, but than to wait on the others to catch up. As what what termed as "high functioning", she almost always ended up in these classes that were heavily weighted with special needs kids. Essentially, since she either knew all the material, or was able to learn it quickly on her own, she was placed in a class where the teacher had to focus on other students that needed more help. It seems to me they should perhaps have a larger class of high functioning kids being allowed to move at their own pace and let the ones not learning as quickly, or needing special help to be in smaller more attentive classes.
You will never be able to compare what is acheived through home schooling through what public schools can attain. It just isn't fair. However, we can compare our school system with that of other industrialized countries and figure out why/how they are able to accel while we lose ground every generation. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 1:43pm
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Interesting link. I will note that the closer you get to West Virginia, apparently the dumber kids get.....hmm.
http://nbcscorecard.greatschools.org/schools/OH/1962.html - http://nbcscorecard.greatschools.org/schools/OH/1962.html
I'll also note that the area you are in FE, is by the looks of it the lowest scoring region in Ohio. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 3:28pm
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I forgot to mention that in those 30C+ temps, our schools don't have air conditioning. This also means in days it's ~10C we also don't get heating.
KBK |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 3:54pm
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Without reading anything else, may I ask what an artistically gifted 10 year old has to do with a discussion on education?
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 4:08pm
Hush. Let's not question the squirrels. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: BearClaw
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 11:37am
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I have long been gone from any form of schooling and i don't have any kids. BUT i don't think the schooling calendar needs to change. I think school just has to become tougher. Fail kids that don't pass especially those that don't try. If the kids cant get thew something put them in a special needs class DONT drop the rest of the kids Curriculum to meet the needs of another child. Yeah i know it sounds cold and heartless but hell LIFE is cold and heartless sugar coating it now aint gonna help latter.
------------- AGD 68 Automag Azodin KPII Sheridan PGP2K Tippmann Crossover XVR Tippmann ProCarbine Tippmann SL68-II Tippmann TiPX |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 12:44pm
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http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39407572/ns/today-parenting/ - http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39407572/ns/today-parenting/
"Brown’s sons have a common complaint of formerly home-schooled kids: too many rules. “All our time is spent organizing, not learning,” Payton said. Lining up in the hallways, writing your name in the top right-hand corner of your three-hole paper, using the proper color pen for assignments — depending on their personality, home-schooled kids may get impatient with the regulations that govern traditional school settings.
“It does seem very silly to a lot of kids. It depends on the individual child, how willing are they to play that game,” said Anna Knapp. "
MSNBC nails the problem... too much time doing regulation and not enough time learning... That is the major problem, and it is typical of government. Nothing government does is efficient, they take the most remedial task and make it take 10 times longer and cost a ton more than it needs to cost...
With good intentions of course... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 12:55pm
... And this process was created to make people better direction takers and followers - and thus better employees - rather than teaching critical thinking and intellect. Also, your dislike of the government is funny too, because it wasn't progressive or liberal ideals that caused that transition either. It was folks who rally against "Intellectual elites" and such. Not that there is anyone here like that or anything.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 1:02pm
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Funny that someone so consumed with following dogma and tradition has an issue with the government teaching kids rules and regulations. Because nothing says 'free thinking" like religion. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 1:22pm
Exactly when did I advocate for a certain religion?...
I hate religion. The way man has twisted scripture to their own power is disgusting. I am not a part of any organized religious group currently, nor do I expect to become part of one in the future. I go to a berean church (focusing only on the scriptures instead of a religions interpretations and rules with no scriptural basis...)
Jesus was clear his opinion of "religion" and since they are the ones who ultimately killed him... I think he had a good reason for his distain for religious rulers of his day.
Acts 17
16While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean." 21(All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' 29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 1:28pm
It'll be awfully hard to kick a field goal now.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 1:28pm
TL; DR scripture.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 2:00pm
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Methinks FE doesn't understand the difference between sect and religion.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 2:08pm
Yeah, well, correlation and causation, good sir. |