Arizona Shooting
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Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
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URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=187497
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Topic: Arizona Shooting
Posted By: evillepaintball
Subject: Arizona Shooting
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 2:40pm
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But seriously, this is unfortunate. Ib4 CCW, etc.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn - http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
(CNN) -- At least 12 people were shot at a Tucson grocery store on Saturday, and U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was among them, a Democratic party source told CNN. Giffords, 40, was holding a constituent meeting at the grocery store when the shooting occurred, according to a schedule posted on her website. CNN could not confirm conditions for Giffords or any of the others wounded, but the Tuscon Citizen newspaper was reporting that Giffords was shot in the head. The Democratic source described the situation as "pretty serious," The shooting occurred at a Safeway shortly after 10 a.m. MST, according to sheriff's spokesman Deputy Jason Ogan.store Pictures from the scene showed a Giffords banner hanging from the storefront. At least two victims with gunshot wounds were transported at Northwest Medical Center, according to spokesman Richard Parker.
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Replies:
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 2:59pm
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Idiotic title, though as it's parodying another idiotic title that's hardly surprising.
Giffords was in favour of the tougher Arizona immigration laws. If anything, this seems more likely to be a factor in her shooting.
Either that, or a constituent went completely unhinged over something that's not a big deal to hardly anyone else.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 4:14pm
brihard wrote:
Either that, or a constituent went completely unhinged over something that's not a big deal to hardly anyone else. |
She was one of the representatives who reported vandalism to their office after voting for the health care reform bill.
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Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 5:56pm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail?entry_id=80609 - Apparently this is surr-ious.
I don't know how legitimate this is, but wow.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:16pm
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What is amazing is how fast people decide "who" the shooter was...
Must have been a conservative, tea party member... No way he could be a liberal. Only conservatives shoot people... AMIRITE?
Oh wait.
Here is a quote from the shooter...
"No! I won't trust in god!"
Here are his favorite books.
"his favorite books are "Mein Kampf," the "Communist Manifesto," "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World."
yeah, those books are favorites among conservatives... wait.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/shooting-suspects-apparent-youtube-video/ - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/shooting-suspects-apparent-youtube-video/
It is a horrible shooting. Very sad, I feel for everyone who lost members of their family.
But it is way to typical for our media and even us to point fingers at left or right. Let us wait for the fact to come out. As this is probably just a loon who got a gun.
survival of the fittest and all.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:37pm
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Who'd have thought FE would be the one saying to not jump to conclusions. I agree though, it's always bad when people project their version of bad onto something like this to fit their ideals. Dont just create a profile for someone you know nothing about.
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:40pm
I'm really bummed about this on several levels.
1. because it happened at all. 2. because people have been hurt and killed. 3. because of the finger pointing and blame game that is sure to follow, if it hasn't kicked off already. 4. because of the backlash that its going to have.
A toon gets a hold of a gun and takes out his frustrations on a government official. Political affiliations of the disturbed need to be ignored and this needs to be taken for what it is- a tragic violent crime committed by someone who had problems. Nothing more.
I'm interested to see how the shooting of one of their own prompts democrats to renew their push for tighter firearms restrictions.
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:44pm
Oh, and here's the image from Palin's site. The wording is a bit iffy in hindsight, but Reb made a great point:
"Political affiliations of the disturbed need to be ignored and this needs to be taken for what it is- a tragic violent crime committed by someone who had problems. Nothing more. "
Also, not my screenshot/ browser.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:51pm
FreeEnterprise wrote:
Let us wait for the fact to come out.
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I'll go ahead and save this quote.
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:31pm
I've seen the guys Youtube channel. He has some strange views on how the world does or should work. I'm not sure I'd say he was a Tea Partier so much as he is totally off his rocker.
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:32pm
One former high school friend Tweeted about knowing the accused gunman:
"He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag," she wrote. "I haven't seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical."
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,3468158.story - http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,3468158.story
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:50pm
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It was the devil marijuana!!!!!
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 9:57pm
FreeEnterprise wrote:
One former high school friend Tweeted about knowing the accused gunman:
"He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag," she wrote. "I haven't seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical."
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,3468158.story - http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,3468158.story
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'As I knew him'- three to four years ago. It appears that he's become significantly unhinged since that time. His politics- whatever they are, or at least whatever he considers them to be, are completely irrelevant to this. He is an individual who's lost touch with reality. No normal person of any political persuasion does stuff like this. It's as dumb to try to attribute significance to a dated comment describing him as 'left wing' as it was for people to try to pass him off as a 'tea party' supporter.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 12:08am
Take a look at his Youtube channel. I don't know if it's appropriate for this forum, so go look for it, it isn't hard to find.
There is no way he falls in the political left. I'm not sure he falls in the conventional "far right", either, which I think says quite a bit.
brihard wrote:
He is an individual who's lost touch with reality. No
normal person of any political persuasion does stuff like this. It's as
dumb to try to attribute significance to a dated comment describing him
as 'left wing' as it was for people to try to pass him off as a 'tea
party' supporter. |
This. It isn't about politics, it's about the fact that this guy clearly had mental issues, whether they're clinical or not.
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 1:50am
ParielIsBack wrote:
It isn't about politics, it's about the fact that this guy clearly had mental issues, whether they're clinical or not.
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Quoted for emphasis
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 10:31am
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Story time:
The only time the general manager of the company I used to work for ever stepped in and overrode my control of the paper was when a gun target was involved.
It was on the sports page, the Friday before UCF was about to play their rival USF in football.
USF, at the time, had a pretty good QB named Matt Grothe, and, in order for UCF to win this game (They didn't, btw) the defensive front was going to have to target Grothe and put a ton of pressure on him.
So, it made sense to me, and the sports editor, to have the sports front art be a picture of Grothe with a target on him. Except the target pretty much looked like a gun sight.
It looked cool, and we got our point across.
Then, the general manager reminded us that before last year's game, a bunch of moron UCF fans got a hold of Matt Grothe's cell phone number and kept calling him with death threats. Also that it was irresponsible to put a gun target over someone in a newspaper.
So, the design got switched to a more Target (The company) like bullseye logo and less of a gun sight, and all was well.
-fin-
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 2:12pm
I think that there is legitimate cause to criticize Palin's map, but at most that's one very small part of what happened yesterday.
The vitriol in American political rhetoric as a whole could probably be turned down a notch. I'm not sure this incident will actually cause that though.
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 2:17pm
http://www.blip.tv/file/4586172##id4604517id4604517 - Chilling Video: Openly Rooting for Revolution, The Left Calls For American Civil Unrest & Riots -Fra - Naked Emperor News on TheBlaze.com - blip.tv | Naked Emperor News on TheBlaze.com
"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."
Read more: http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/editorials-columns/roderick-random/kanjorski-ponders-nuts-bolts-from-blue-1.1052739#ixzz1AXHh1VFy - http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/editorials-columns/roderick-random/kanjorski-ponders-nuts-bolts-from-blue-1.1052739#ixzz1AXHh1VFy
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 3:05pm
I'm sorry, I'm a long ways away from a Palin fan as most of you can probably guess. I think the woman is an idiot, but linking her map to what happened yesterday is just stupid and ignorant. Not saying that anyone here is doing that, but it's ridiculous. Granted, I don't really think Palin's map was appropriate, but it's hardly correlated in any way.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl
Forum Vice President
RIP T&O Forum
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 4:44pm
FreeEnterprise wrote:
http://www.blip.tv/file/4586172##id4604517id4604517 - shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."
Read more: http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/editorials-columns/roderick-random/kanjorski-ponders-nuts-bolts-from-blue-1.1052739#ixzz1AXHh1VFy -
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 6:09pm
FE, keep your hyper partisan political crap to yourself, just this once. You may earn back some respect on here if you could figure out when it's time to shush.
Oh and since OP isn't changing the title, could a mod please change it to something more appropriate for the topic? All this title will do is keep FE in super defensive mode. Thanks, eville.
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 6:11pm
High Voltage wrote:
FE, keep your hyper partisan political crap to yourself, just this once. You may earn back some respect on here if you could figure out when it's time to shush. | Oh my dear god, this.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl
Forum Vice President
RIP T&O Forum
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 6:23pm
This tragic incident is indicative of the swings politics brings on in individuals. By all reports the shooter had many identifiable mental issues and extreme views, yet not on 'red light' came on in our society on the individual. The finger pointing is next to useless, the blogs blaming the extreme right wing, extreme left wing, Bozo the Clown, whoever is just another problem in our political machine.
This is the individual assasin, with severe mental issues, who by chance decided that he needed to act to solve our societies problems, and unfortuanately he choose then and there.
We recently had a kid, the son of a local Omaha police detective shoot his schools assistant principle, killing her, and blaming her for his problems in his facebook, he did shoot himself after shooting up the school, hense saving the taxpayers something at least. Little mention that his school suspention was the result of him and a friend doing donuts on the school atheletic field, tearing it up and some serious cost to repair, and how dare the principle ruin his life, by actually thinking he should be punished for his actions, for his dad is a cop.
We are in a society where blame is never on the individual, but on some incident or another influance. The shooting in Arizona was the result of an individual, the shooting in Lincoln was the result of an individual. And all the physco babble from the experts is not going to change that simple fact.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 11:36pm
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Gun control will stop these murders!!!!!
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Posted By: Magoo
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 11:58pm
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I'm actually concerned that this is going to cause another boom in ammo/gun prices. People may call for more gun control after this, and people afraid of people calling for more gun control will start stockpiling again...
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 1:41am
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Magoo wrote:
I'm actually concerned that this is going to cause another boom in ammo/gun prices. People may call for more gun control after this, and people afraid of people calling for more gun control will start stockpiling again...
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IT'LL BE LIKE OBAMA GETTING ELECTED ALL OVER AGAIN. STOCK UP ON AMMO.
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 11:17am
Magoo wrote:
I'm actually concerned that this is going to cause another boom in ammo/gun prices. People may call for more gun control after this, and people afraid of people calling for more gun control will start stockpiling again...
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All that has to happen is someone in a suit even SUGGEST that there be more control imposed, and watch what happens to prices. I'm not sure what pistol ammunition is going for these days, but when I pull a trigger on a 3.06 and it costs me almost a buck a round, I get annoyed.
Looking at all the stuff that's floating around on the web about this stuff is enough to make one's head swim. Between finger pointing, guesswork, and actual tragic fact...Its really disheartening to read. Congresswoman Giffords is responding to basic commands after taking a bullet to the brain. They're not sure what her chances of a full recovery are. The 9 year old little girl that was killed too.....The fact that this is being politicized is much more horrific than the event itself in my book.
It has also postponed President Obama's visit to the GE Complex in my town that was supposed to be tomorrow. I considered trying to get the day off to see him, but they don't know when its going to be postponed to. After reading a book on the secret service the other day, I want to see some of these security measures close up, and catching a glimpse of the leader of the free world would have been pretty awesome too.
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 11:29am
Reb Cpl wrote:
The 9 year old little girl that was killed too.....The fact that this is being politicized is much more horrific than the event itself in my book. |
I agree that this is truly troubling. Not surprising, but really can't the media take a look at itself and realize there's an issue here?
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 3:24pm
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As for a political motive, it appears the guy is basically just crazy. I am not trying to pay much attention to it because I hate the sensationalization of these types of situations, but I have heard more than once that the guy most likely has severe mental issues, probably schizophrenia. In general, he thought the government was out to destroy us, so he listened to the voice in his head and struck first.
One thing that I am absolutely horrified by are the multiple interviews being given by the little girls parents. As a parent, I can't even begin to imagine how they are feeling let alone how they are even able to put together coherent sentences for an interview. I would still be balled up in a corner crying drinking whiskey plotting a way to find and kill the bastard that did this to my little girl. They must still be in shock.
And shame on the media for their whoring out of these interviews.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: Magoo
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 3:45pm
carl_the_sniper wrote:
Magoo wrote:
I'm actually concerned that this is going to cause another boom in ammo/gun prices. People may call for more gun control after this, and people afraid of people calling for more gun control will start stockpiling again...
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IT'LL BE LIKE OBAMA GETTING ELECTED ALL OVER AGAIN. STOCK UP ON AMMO.
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Dude, like Reb said, it doesn't take a lot...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 4:07pm
oldpbnoob wrote:
As for a political motive, it appears the guy is basically just crazy. |
This.
I've read his postings various places. I've seen his Youtube rants and blogs.
I still cannot piece together any sort of coherent political theme on anything. It's all nonsensical. Stuff I've not even really heard from the fringe on either side. Stuff like saying that all law is invalidated because of the U.S. Constitution being rewritten from the Articles of Confederation, and claiming that the illiteracy rate in the U.S. is above 90 percent.
The closest I can tag one of his rantings to is extreme libertarianism, with his rantings about the money system needing to switch back to gold and silver instead of paper. But even in that, it doesn't seem like his problem is with using gold and silver to BACK money. It's the physical act of actually using paper money.
Guy was off of his rocker.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 4:11pm
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Jared Loughner wrote:
"What is government if words have no meaning?" | I think this sums it up.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 5:17pm
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The trouble with debating these things is that many in the media and the government are going to politicize it for the agendas, even if there's no rhyme or reason to it.
This has already turned into a 2nd amendment debate, with smarty-pants politicians claiming the AWB would have prevented this act from ever occuring. There's no point in arguing why that's completely ridiculous, or that this guy was simply another nut, because the powers that be have already staked their claim in this.
I think this is a great example as to why I hate politics and rarely discuss them like I used to-it's like beating your head against a brick wall that's backed by six feet of concrete. You can almost hear the sounds of your brain melting when you try to reason this crap out. American politics is disgusting, and they capitalize on the deaths of innocents to further a political cause that's almost without reason.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 5:27pm
From what I understand, the police were called at least five times on this guy and he was suspended from college and told the only way he could return back to school was if he got cleared as mentally fit. He also was turned down by the army because he failed the psych part of the evaluation, but was able to go on and purchase a handgun a short time late. Something seems a little screwy with this. Seems like some sort of stricter gun control could have prevented this.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 5:45pm
oldpbnoob wrote:
From what I understand, the police were called at least five times on this guy and he was suspended from college and told the only way he could return back to school was if he got cleared as mentally fit. He also was turned down by the army because he failed the psych part of the evaluation, but was able to go on and purchase a handgun a short time late. Something seems a little screwy with this. Seems like some sort of stricter gun control could have prevented this. |
If he was adjudicated mentally ill and the state didn't report it (i.e. Virginia in concern w/ the VT shootings) then he would have been able to pass a background check. This is why I think our mental health system and our justice systems are in serious need of an overhaul on the communication front.
------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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Posted By: carl_the_sniper
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 6:03pm
Magoo wrote:
carl_the_sniper wrote:
Magoo wrote:
I'm actually concerned that this is going to cause another boom in ammo/gun prices. People may call for more gun control after this, and people afraid of people calling for more gun control will start stockpiling again...
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IT'LL BE LIKE OBAMA GETTING ELECTED ALL OVER AGAIN. STOCK UP ON AMMO.
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Dude, like Reb said, it doesn't take a lot...
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I wouldn't want to shop at stores owned by people like that.
------------- <just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 7:10pm
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Here's an interesting one, which perfectly substantiates my position that both political sides in the U.S. are FOS and are given to extremism.
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/ - http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010
It's a collection of a broad variety of rather virulent rhetoric form the left wing- the same sort of thing that the left often criticises the right for.
I think the rhetoric is grossly excessive from both sides, but it seems that the popular discourse tends to demonize the right wing exclusively. Fair is fair.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 7:11pm
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Father asks to not have more restrictions. This man did wonders to slow/stop gun grabbers.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 8:36pm
impulse418 wrote:
This man did wonders to slow/stop gun grabbers.
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Nobody is coming for your guns. Chill.
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 11:36pm
tragic
------------- Imagine there’s a picture of your favourite thing here.
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Posted By: Magoo
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 11:55pm
carl_the_sniper wrote:
Magoo wrote:
carl_the_sniper wrote:
Magoo wrote:
I'm actually concerned that this is going to cause another boom in ammo/gun prices. People may call for more gun control after this, and people afraid of people calling for more gun control will start stockpiling again...
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IT'LL BE LIKE OBAMA GETTING ELECTED ALL OVER AGAIN. STOCK UP ON AMMO.
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Dude, like Reb said, it doesn't take a lot...
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I wouldn't want to shop at stores owned by people like that.
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It's not so much the store owners capitalizing on the scare (though that may be part of it). It's the hysteria these kinds of events create. People think when something tragic happens that just so happens to involve a gun, the suits are going to impose tighter control on guns/ammo/etc. This leads to hoarding and stockpiling, which leads to increased prices and decreased availability. I just purchased a Walther PPK (before this shooting), and .380 JUST became available reasonably priced again. I don't need more people freaking out driving up prices for ammo or guns or what-have-you...
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:37am
Has anyone been listening to what that Sheriff Dupnik has been saying? It's like he's on the campaign trail. Spouting off about, "Back in the day" stuff, "Rush Limbaugh is to blame", and how "America has become an angry country". What kind of cop is this guy? Where is his objectivity? What happened to stating what is known so far and saying that the investigation is continuing? This guy has a national spotlight on him and he's politicizing.
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:48am
brihard wrote:
Here's an interesting one, which perfectly substantiates my position that both political sides in the U.S. are FOS and are given to extremism.
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/ - http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010
It's a collection of a broad variety of rather virulent rhetoric form the left wing- the same sort of thing that the left often criticises the right for.
I think the rhetoric is grossly excessive from both sides, but it seems that the popular discourse tends to demonize the right wing exclusively. Fair is fair. |
Michelle Malkin, really?
I thought you were better than that, bri.
Oh and lol at her own blog containing 90% of the same behavior she's criticizing. I agree both sides have this problem, however I disagree with the notion both sides are equally out of control.
Maybe it has something to do with the other party being in power. Think back to the W. years, the left was louder and more hateful then. Seems to me the crazy rhetoric is amplified by the party out of power and it swings back and forth just like elections. Anyone else notice this?
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 7:25am
StormyKnight wrote:
Has anyone been listening to what that Sheriff Dupnik has been saying? It's like he's on the campaign trail. Spouting off about, "Back in the day" stuff, "Rush Limbaugh is to blame", and how "America has become an angry country". What kind of cop is this guy? Where is his objectivity? What happened to stating what is known so far and saying that the investigation is continuing? This guy has a national spotlight on him and he's politicizing. | Position of Sheriff is an elected one. It's just as political as any other. While I agree that it is in poor taste to pour gasoline on the fire and finger point when the bodies of 6 innocent victims weren't even cold, cops are no more objective than anyone else. Partially due to the jobs they have to do everyday, I would venture to guess they are even less objective than most actually. He should have hidden it better, but I guess it goes to show that emotions can get to even the most callous.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 8:02am
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I think the sheriff is just doing the blame game because this whole thing is going to bite HIM personally in the rear.
He knew this kid was unstable, I have read about 4 different instances where the police in his area were involved with "crazy" issues with this kid. Issues where the other people involved were afraid he would come back with a gun and shoot up the place.
And yet, the sheriff never put anything on the kids record and he was able to get a gun... Come on, that is the point of the background check that the state forces gun sellers to submit to.
This kid with all these KNOWN problems passed the background check...
The laws are there to protect us, IF the government does it's job. My assumption is that they didn't follow procedure in this case, and we now see the results. Why isn't the media focusing on that aspect?...
If you want to make assumptions, the big assumption is that this sheriff didn't do his job and pass on that this kid was a mental case.
He is now just trying to shift the blame away from himself... Typical in the world today as no one wants to accept responsiblity for their actions... But to politicize an occurance like this is about as low as you can get.
Nick Gillespie wrote a perfect article that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the "political" spin this story has taken.
It is a must read:
http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/10/the-instant-politicization-of - http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/10/the-instant-politicization-of
More to the point of the actual shooter.
There have been many studies we have all seen that discuss the psychotic breaks that can be caused by marijuana. Here is yet another example of someone who was a known pothead and then goes off the farm in a clearly deranged manner.
Yet, have you read one story about how marijuana contributed to his episode?
How about this fact. The kid was a devout athiest. Even said "No, I will not believe in God".
I seriously believe that eliminating God from your beliefs "CAN" have serious consequences. Sure there are tons of people that won't but, just like marijuana. SOME people can be affected in a way that will cause them to not have the "right vs wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds.
These are topics that should come out of this shooting, but they don't fit the "accept drugs, and promote athiesm" that the media is so concerned about cheerleading.
And yet, the left and media are hell bent on destroying the credibility of the right, even using a situation that we now find out had absolutely NOTHING to do with this shooter.
He was a 9/11 truther I just read... A athiest, who was called "very liberal" by his classmates.
He targeted this poor woman, because of her lack of comments on one of his questions from their one chance meeting.
but, that doesn't fit what the media and the left built. And the frenzy that they whipped up in the past week will do more harm to the left, and media than they realize.
People are sick of it.
This attempt to blame the tea party, yet again. When they had nothing to do with this will only strengthen the tea party.
This attempt to blame Sarah Palin, who had nothing to do with this, will only strengthen her crediblity with a huge segment of America who are sick of the liberal spin machine and the way it attempts to destroy people by inventing a entire case study that fits only their narrative, and none of the facts.
Their attempt to blame talk radio, the one place where you can find actual thought provoking discussion instead of the drivel that the main stream media parrots over and over. This will only make talk radio even more powerful, as they go into the things you question, and don't ignore entire aspects of the killer just so they can promote their liberal leaning agenda.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:37am
HV- I'm no fan of Malkin. She just happens to have done an excellent job of collecting examples of what I've been saying; that BOTH sides are prone to extremist rhetoric, and that neither stands on a moral high ground. Both the Loud Left and the Loud Right are wallowing in the filthy muck of violent rhetoric.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 11:17am
FreeEnterprise wrote:
Their attempt to blame talk radio, the one place where you can find actual thought provoking discussion instead of the drivel that the main stream media parrots over and over. This will only make talk radio even more powerful, as they go into the things you question, and don't ignore entire aspects of the killer just so they can promote their liberal leaning agenda.
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What flavor is the kool-aid these days?
I used to listen to all those talk radio shows. Hannity, Rush, Even Savage. Then I began to realize that they're no more 'balanced' than their opposition in more mainstream outlets. Spin machines go both ways, and you cannot hope to have a solid and logical opinion until you're willing to listen to both sides and meet in the middle, or tune them both out and use your brain.
People aren't 'tired of the liberal spin' - what they're tired of is the constant hammering of extremism from both sides. And the nausea inducing fact of the matter is- both camps are trying to contort even THAT truth.
------------- ?
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 12:37pm
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 12:52pm
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Here is easily the best collected history of Jared Loughner that I've yet found.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/arizona-shooting/shooting-top-stories/accused-arizona-shooters-lonely-descent-into-instability-and-paranoia/article1864254/ - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/arizona-shooting/shooting-top-stories/accused-arizona-shooters-lonely-descent-into-instability-and-paranoia/article1864254/
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:22pm
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5idu_xz8MDQA2O-nVNq4zzkCEWvSg - http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5idu_xz8MDQA2O-nVNq4zzkCEWvSg
"WASHINGTON — Young adults who started using cannabis at an early age and used it for several years are at increased risk of being diagnosed with a form of psychosis, of hallucinating or having delusions, a study published Monday found.
The study conducted at the Queensland Brain Institute at the University of Queensland in Australia asked more than 3,800 young adults, aged around 20 years, about their cannabis use, and assessed them for psychoses, delusional behavior and to see if they had hallucinations.
Just over 14 percent reported using cannabis for six or more years. The study found that they were twice as likely as those who had never used cannabis to be diagnosed with nonaffective psychoses, such as schizophrenia.
These longtime users were also twice as likely to report having hallucinations, and four times as likely to show delusional behavior as non-users, the study shows.
"There were significant linear trends between the exposure variable and all three psychosis-related measures: the longer the duration since first cannabis use, the higher the risk of the adverse outcomes," the study says.
But which came first, cannabis-use or psychosis, remains unclear, the researchers said.
Study participants who reported having hallucinations early in life were more likely to have used cannabis longer and to use it more frequently, highlighting the "complexity of the relationship," the study says.
"Those individuals who ... had isolated psychotic symptoms were more likely to commence cannabis use, which could then contribute to an increased risk of conversion to a non-affective psychotic disorder," it says.
"Apart from the implications for policy-makers and health-planners, we hope our findings will encourage further clinical and animal model-based research to unravel the mechanisms linking cannabis use and psychosis," the study says."
Now the following is from Time, which has an extremely liberal slant... so of course they don't want pot demonized, but it is still interesting to read their point of view.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/10/politics-parenting-pot-or-psychosis-what-caused-the-arizona-shootings/ - http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/10/politics-parenting-pot-or-psychosis-what-caused-the-arizona-shootings/
Of course they use some pot logic and spout off with stuff like this...
"For marijuana, the bottom line is that if cannabis smoking can cause schizophrenia, it does so in only some of those who are already predisposed to the mental disorder. Otherwise, the massive increase in marijuana use seen in the West since the 1950's would have been accompanied by a similar increase in the schizophrenia rate. That did not occur: schizophrenia rates have been stable, affecting roughly 1% of the population."
Which completely contradicts Times headline article also out today which states:
"Other than a public breakdown and a threat to order, however, institutions with some sense of guardianship over individuals, like schools, colleges and, perhaps, corporations, may be the only potential intervenors — though even then, their options are limited by law and by the efficiency of bureaucracies. "At an institution like a university, this [has become] an expected problem," Duckworth says of mental illness. He reports that mental-health professionals working in college settings are overwhelmed by the intensity of the illnesses they see and by the sheer numbers of students in need of treatment."
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2041733,00.html#ixzz1AkTXFdHY - http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2041733,00.html#ixzz1AkTXFdHY
So logically we see that they are saying pot use isn't a problem otherwise we would see a dramatic increase in mental health issues...
And yet, we are seeing a dramatic increase in mental health issues, but they aren't being reported because of the sheer numbers that are overwhelming the system...
So clearly there is a problem, one that the reporters shown in the two articles I linked are actively trying to ignore, and instead place the blame on a large basket of issues... So that they can get people to focus on "fairness doctrine, and gun control".
And ignoring the mental health issues tied back to the massive drug problem in our society.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:28pm
FreeEnterprise wrote:
But which came first, cannabis-use or psychosis, remains unclear, the researchers said.
Study participants who reported having hallucinations early in life were more likely to have used cannabis longer and to use it more frequently, highlighting the "complexity of the relationship," the study says.
"Those individuals who ... had isolated psychotic symptoms were more likely to commence cannabis use, which could then contribute to an increased risk of conversion to a non-affective psychotic disorder," it says.
| LTR.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:44pm
Moreover, there's nothing from which to gauge the frequency of Loughner's use of drugs. This is another one of those correlation/causality things.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:59pm
oldpbnoob wrote:
FreeEnterprise wrote:
But which came first, cannabis-use or psychosis, remains unclear, the researchers said.
Study participants who reported having hallucinations early in life were more likely to have used cannabis longer and to use it more frequently, highlighting the "complexity of the relationship," the study says.
"Those individuals who ... had isolated psychotic symptoms were more likely to commence cannabis use, which could then contribute to an increased risk of conversion to a non-affective psychotic disorder," it says.
| LTR. |
Seriously. You blamed the reporters for "actively trying to ignore" stuff in the exact same post where you blatantly "actively tried to ignore" the part that goes against your baseless beliefs.
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 2:12pm
BLAME DA WEED
------------- ?
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 3:43pm
I'd just like to say: we didn't start the fire.
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 3:52pm
FreeEnterprise wrote:
How about this fact. The kid was a devout athiest. Even said "No, I will not believe in God".
I seriously believe that eliminating God from your beliefs "CAN" have serious consequences. Sure there are tons of people that won't but, just like marijuana. SOME people can be affected in a way that will cause them to not have the "right vs wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds.
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I've read a lot of ridiculous things from FE but this is just offensive.
1. If you're going to bash a belief, spell it correctly: a-t-h-e-i-s-m
2. Many could argue that by having a belief of God, it too can have serious negative consequences
3. Whether or not you believe in a God and a link to "right v. wrong" is just hilarious
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 4:09pm
Dune wrote:
FreeEnterprise wrote:
How about this fact. The kid was a devout athiest. Even said "No, I will not believe in God".
I seriously believe that eliminating God from your beliefs "CAN" have serious consequences. Sure there are tons of people that won't but, just like marijuana. SOME people can be affected in a way that will cause them to not have the "right vs wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds.
|
I've read a lot of ridiculous things from FE but this is just offensive.
1. If you're going to bash a belief, spell it correctly: a-t-h-e-i-s-m
2. Many could argue that by having a belief of God, it too can have serious negative consequences
3. Whether or not you believe in a God and a link to "right v. wrong" is just hilarious | I would argue that the belief in God can cause people to not have the "right vs. wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds as well. Take the WBC for instance.
Ignorant argument even for you FE.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 4:16pm
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How about this fact. The kid was white. I seriously believe that being white "CAN" have serious consequences. Sure there are tons of people that won't but, just like meat. SOME people can be affected in a way that will cause them to not have the "right vs wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds.
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 6:35pm
^^^ OMG! I just realized that . . . I . . . am . . . white. (Seriously, I LOLed at the above post.)
oldpbnoob wrote:
Dune wrote:
FreeEnterprise wrote:
How about this fact. The kid was a devout athiest. Even said "No, I will not believe in God".
I seriously believe that eliminating God from your beliefs "CAN" have serious consequences. Sure there are tons of people that won't but, just like marijuana. SOME people can be affected in a way that will cause them to not have the "right vs wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds.
|
I've read a lot of ridiculous things from FE but this is just offensive.
1. If you're going to bash a belief, spell it correctly: a-t-h-e-i-s-m
2. Many could argue that by having a belief of God, it too can have serious negative consequences
3. Whether or not you believe in a God and a link to "right v. wrong" is just hilarious | I would argue that the belief in God can cause people to not have the "right vs. wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds as well. Take the WBC for instance.
Ignorant argument even for you FE. |
Well duh . . . you have to believe in the "right" god.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 7:51pm
Mack wrote:
^^^ OMG! I just realized that . . . I . . . am . . . white. (Seriously, I LOLed at the above post.)
oldpbnoob wrote:
Dune wrote:
FreeEnterprise wrote:
How about this fact. The kid was a devout athiest. Even said "No, I will not believe in God".
I seriously believe that eliminating God from your beliefs "CAN" have serious consequences. Sure there are tons of people that won't but, just like marijuana. SOME people can be affected in a way that will cause them to not have the "right vs wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds.
|
I've read a lot of ridiculous things from FE but this is just offensive.
1. If you're going to bash a belief, spell it correctly: a-t-h-e-i-s-m
2. Many could argue that by having a belief of God, it too can have serious negative consequences
3. Whether or not you believe in a God and a link to "right v. wrong" is just hilarious | I would argue that the belief in God can cause people to not have the "right vs. wrong" abilities that most of us have built inside our hearts and minds as well. Take the WBC for instance.
Ignorant argument even for you FE. |
Well duh . . . you have to believe in the "right" god.
| Just heard from the evil Liberal Left leaning media that WBC will not be allowed to protest the funerals of the shooting victims. Can you beleive it? Just another liberal political ploy. Get out of my way guvermint! I has to show how loving Jesus is!
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 8:18pm
Pffft. Both my younger brothers have been smoking weed, quite heavily I might add, since at least 7th grade. I haven't heard anything about hallucinations, psychosis or even the least bit of paranoia. You have to read those studies with a grain of salt. Seldom are they that objective.
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:06pm
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FE, you had quite a nice post going there. I started saying "Wow, I aggree with FE!", then you began to mix in your feelings on weed.
we get it, drugs are bad.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 8:30am
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Let's stick to facts not rhetoric, the media and sheriff have given us enough of that for a lifetime.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291043,00.html - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291043,00.html
"Study: Even Infrequent Use of Marijuana Increases Risk of Psychosis by 40 Percent"
"For example, Zammit said the risk of developing schizophrenia for most people is less than 1 percent. The prevalence of javascript:siteSearch%28schizophrenia%29; - The scientists found a more disturbing outlook for "heavy users" of pot, those who used it daily or weekly: Their risk for psychosis jumped to a range of 50 percent to 200 percent."
http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2010/02/studies-show-marijuana-may-increase-psychosis.html - http://www.americanconsumernews.com/2010/02/studies-show-marijuana-may-increase-psychosis.html
"In numerous studies around the world, the use of cannabis has been shown to increase the risk for schizophrenia and psychosis. Researchers in New Zealand found that individuals using cannabis before the age of 15 were more than 300% more likely to develop mental illnesses like schizophrenia, while professor Robin Murray of the London Institute of Psychiatry’s 15 year study has shown that regular use of cannabis by 15 year olds resulted in people being 4.5 times more likely to become schizophrenic by the age of 26.
Almost all research has indicated that the risks for increased psychosis are higher when the drugs are used by people under the age of 21, as the brain is developing more rapidly and is more vulnerable. It’s believed that when marijuana is used while the brain is developing, the chemical dopamine is increased which can lead to schizophrenia. Biological predisposition towards schizophrenia and psychosis will also play a role in the level of risk – as Professor John Henry of Imperial College in London shows in his http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001559.html - research .
It’s believed by the British Lung Association that the increased potency of today’s marijuana available on the streets today is 15 times more powerful than the drug that was smoked 30 years ago – and is contributing to the increased risks of psychosis and schizophrenia."
So the risk is pretty small, but tell that to the people killed by Jared... All it takes is ONE person like that to cause the kind of mass murder that we witnessed on Saturday. The way advocates for pot ignore facts like this is disturbing. I know that in my family the men have a propensity for alcoholism... So I have never partaked in Alcohol. Do I think drinking is bad... No... I just don't want to put myself in a situation that for my personal genetics may be bad for my life. Do I think marijuana is bad... (because it is illegal. of course) but other than the legal aspect, I could care less if you want to smoke weed or cigarettes, it is your body to do with as you wish.
The problem is, all to many ignore the facts about this psychotic break issue and its ties to marijuana use.
Mental illness isn't noticable by the person affected... I'm sure Jared thought he was fine and WE were the loons. How many more marijuana users think this same way?
I bet we all know people who smoke pot pretty often with seemingly no detrimental effects... But, if we were honest, I bet we all also know a few who ended up being mental cases... I can think of quite a few that I know.
Now is that the pots fault? I don't know, but the studies show that there is a 50 -200% increase in risk for psychosis in heavy users of pot... And the younger you start the more likely you will get messed up from it.
That shouldn't be ignored.
Course it is a lot easier to blame talk radio or Sarah Palin, than a substance that science has shown us will cause psychotic breaks in some individuals.
What about the music he was filling his brain with daily as well? Does that have an impact? If the left is convinced that listening to Rush will make you raving mad...
Then at some point we have to discuss his favorite song.
"Let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor, Arrrrraaaagggghhhh".
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 8:47am
It's Science

------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 9:10am
FreeEnterprise wrote:
Let's stick to facts not rhetoric, | Yes, lets.
article wrote:
The researchers said they couldn't prove that marijuana use itself increases the risk of psychosis, a category of several disorders with schizophrenia being the most commonly known.
There could be something else about marijuana users, "like their tendency to use other drugs or certain personality traits, that could be causing the psychoses," Zammit said. |
same article wrote:
Scientists cannot rule out that pre-existing conditions could have led to both marijuana use and later psychoses, he added. |
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 11:39am
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703791904576075851892478080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703791904576075851892478080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories
should have known... He spent his life on forums.
oh wait.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 1:14pm
Let me get this right...
People are saying that marijuana... that effects brain chemistry, destroys brain neuro-receptors, and decreases blood flow to the brain... can't possibly cause altered brain activity?
Yeah, ok.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 2:52pm
Linus wrote:
Let me get this right...
People are saying that marijuana... that effects brain chemistry, destroys brain neuro-receptors, and decreases blood flow to the brain... can't possibly cause altered brain activity?
Yeah, ok.
|
I don't think you got it right, because I don't think anyone said that.
I think people are saying that based on a single conviction for possession, with nothing else to go on, and without any proper psychological evaluations having been done, it's precipitate to jump to conclusions as to what impact if any his marijuana use may have had. Correlation versus causality, again, ad nauseum. It's just as precipitate as it was when immediately everyone tried to blame it on the Tea Party based simply on who the victim was.
Jumping to conclusions is stupid. Let's wait for answers. It's dishonest to accuse the 'Other' of jumping on their hobby horse in politicizing the tragedy, and then to turn around mere days later and do the same.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 3:10pm
I'd also like to point out that the study that concluded that marijuana kills brain cells was done by suffocating monkeys. They put masks on monkeys and pumped smoke into the masks without oxygen. What happens when you suffocate? Brain cells die.
This is the test that is still cited in government literature on marijuana, and it's just simply retarded.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/ - Consider this
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 3:51pm
I get that people trying to connect this directly to Sarah Palin's talk and images of violence are simply trying to take political advantage of a terrible situation.
I really do.
But when a half-Jewish representative is victim of an attempted assassination, for goodness sake, please don't http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20110112/pl_politico/47477 - claim you are victim of a "Blood libel."
Does she have a handler or a speech writer? How do you manage to pick possibly one of the more-offensive things you could have said there? Seriously? Even if you want to try and take the road of being angry at being accused, just say that! Just say "I'm offended, as a former politician, that some would choose to claim I endangered a public servant."
Don't, you know, use a term used historically to whip up an anti-Semitic frenzy leading to mass-murders.
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 5:56pm
Here's what I don't get about Palin: all she has to do is say something along the lines of "We're terribly sorry about the shooting of Representative Giffords and the other victims, and hope for their speedy recovery. In light of these events, we believe that the map displayed on our website is inappropriate and have removed it."
End of story. She's losing way more face by opening her mouth more, especially in a situation that doesn't actually involve her.
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: Uncle Rudder
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 6:21pm
I don't know how many more times I can hear that stupid old guy's voice on the "Gold Rush" commercials saying "Nooo guts noooo glory" before I go on a shooting spree.
Palin needs to keep her mouth shut, she isn't helping.
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 7:01pm
agentwhale007 wrote:
But when a half-Jewish representative is victim of an attempted assassination, for goodness sake, please don't http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20110112/pl_politico/47477 - claim you are victim of a "Blood libel." |
Maybe she/her handlers had never heard of it in proper context before. (Not an excuse, it's their job to know stuff like that.) I know I had never heard of the term before at all before she used it and people got excited.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 12 January 2011 at 7:32pm
While I doubt Palin is possessed of either a dick or a pair of golf shoes, she has just firmly stepped on the former with the latter.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 13 January 2011 at 3:51pm
Uncle Rudder wrote:
I don't know how many more times I can hear that stupid old guy's voice on the "Gold Rush" commercials saying "Nooo guts noooo glory" before I go on a shooting spree.
|
Seriously. Nothing has made me want to murder someone more than that
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 13 January 2011 at 7:24pm
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51 pages of police reports http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=69173115
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 8:55am
agentwhale007 wrote:
I get that people trying to connect this directly to Sarah Palin's talk and images of violence are simply trying to take political advantage of a terrible situation.
I really do.
But when a half-Jewish representative is victim of an attempted assassination, for goodness sake, please don't http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20110112/pl_politico/47477 - claim you are victim of a "Blood libel."
Does she have a handler or a speech writer? How do you manage to pick possibly one of the more-offensive things you could have said there? Seriously? Even if you want to try and take the road of being angry at being accused, just say that! Just say "I'm offended, as a former politician, that some would choose to claim I endangered a public servant."
Don't, you know, use a term used historically to whip up an anti-Semitic frenzy leading to mass-murders.
|
Actually, I have quite enjoyed watching her speech, and then watching as the media tried to find something in there to beat her with...
The "blood libel" comment was the one pulled out of the hat. And it is quite sad, and fits the way she has been treated since the shooting, as this term is used in politics, to describe exactly what the media did to Palin in this situation. And it hasn't ended but only continued with their attack of her use of this term...
For you to parrot the media in this manner is not surprising... but, it is surprising that so few even bother noticing that there hasn't been a single media outlet that apologized for their treatment of Palin OR the tea party in this terrorist attack.
It is a political blood libel, they invented a story where bloodshed abounded, and entirely placed the blame at the feet of innocents and used it to attack that group without proof of anything. Just to damage their reputation.
You (and the media) act like this term has only one meaning... Our language is fluid, and that term has evolved to mean: a false accusation of responsibility for heinous bloodshed is indeed a blood libel. As a wordsmith you should know that, of course the media knows it, but this is yet ANOTHER example of their bias, and palin derangement syndrome.
It is pathetic really. Her speech was great, and they needed SOMEthing to bash her... Because that is what they do.
oh, btw here are some examples of that term used over and over and over... Not one is referring to Jews.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/256955/term-blood-libel-more-common-you-might-think - http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/256955/term-blood-libel-more-common-you-might-think
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 2:52pm
Yes, FE, Palin is the real victim in this tragedy.
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Posted By: Benjichang
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 2:57pm
Goddamn devil-weed.
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 irc.esper.net #paintball
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 3:07pm
evillepaintball wrote:
Yes, FE, Palin is the real victim in this tragedy. | Why do you hate America so much?
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 3:11pm
It comes with the job.
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Posted By: Dune
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 3:48pm
evillepaintball wrote:
Yes, FE, Palin is the real victim in this tragedy. |
Agreed.
In reality, yes it's quite stupid that fingers should be pointed at her. It's not like she actually wanted something like this to happen. However, for her to be crying like she's being picked on is just hilarious. With the finger pointing and angry rhetoric she has blasted during her 15 minutes of fame, she should be able to handle it back. Speaking of which, aren't those 15 minutes about up? Reality stars usually don't make it this long.
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 3:50pm
Dune wrote:
evillepaintball wrote:
Yes, FE, Palin is the real victim in this tragedy. |
Agreed.
In reality, yes it's quite stupid that fingers should be pointed at her. It's not like she actually wanted something like this to happen. However, for her to be crying like she's being picked on is just hilarious. With the finger pointing and angry rhetoric she has blasted during her 15 minutes of fame, she should be able to handle it back. Speaking of which, aren't those 15 minutes about up? Reality stars usually don't make it this long. | I don't think she intends to go away until she has lost another election for the Republican party.
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 9:55pm
oldpbnoob wrote:
Dune wrote:
evillepaintball wrote:
Yes, FE, Palin is the real victim in this tragedy. |
Agreed.
In reality, yes it's quite stupid that fingers should be pointed at her. It's not like she actually wanted something like this to happen. However, for her to be crying like she's being picked on is just hilarious. With the finger pointing and angry rhetoric she has blasted during her 15 minutes of fame, she should be able to handle it back. Speaking of which, aren't those 15 minutes about up? Reality stars usually don't make it this long. | I don't think she intends to go away until she has lost another election for the Republican party. |
This made me literally cringe.
If Sarah Palin is president in 2012, the Mayans win.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 10:15pm
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Actually, I think that Palin is just messing with the media...
She is totally under their skin, and it helps the conservative party to continue giving them "hints" that she may run... As the media will keep talking about her in a negative way trying their best to discredit her.
When all it does is further solidify her credibility with the conservatives... And make the tea party mad, at the media's reactions...
But, I think she is just using it to make her profile bigger, as her fan base hates the media (I should know...) and this way she can sell more books/tour more, and get better speaking fees.
I don't think she is even considering running, just using all of this to tweak the left.
The way she stays in the news just by posting on facebook is astounding. And the left has such a deranged reaction any time she does anything...
which helps her sell books...
But, seriously, I don't see her running. From my perspective, I just see her manipulating the media to point out the hypocrisy. She has so much power... all from the fingers of a keyboard on facebook... astoundingly impressive.
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 10:42pm
Why does it not surprise me that you idolize an attention whore?
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 15 January 2011 at 7:03am
FreeEnterprise wrote:
When all it does is further solidify her credibility with the conservatives... |
... >_>
------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 15 January 2011 at 8:52am
Oh....my turn.
FreeEnterprise wrote:
Actually, I think that Palin is just messing with the media... Nope. She doesn't strike me as being all that clever. There's a certain level of manipulative ability that comes from being a woman in the first place, but I don't think it runs that deeply. Explaining away her silliness as a clever ruse is grasping at straws.
She is totally under their skin, and it helps the conservative party to continue giving them "hints" that she may run... As the media will keep talking about her in a negative way trying their best to discredit her. Media's under HER skin, or else she wouldn't have flown off the handle when the blame game started being played. She'd have sat back, let things play out, then made her attackers look like fools. By opening her yap, all she did was give them something else to play with.
When all it does is further solidify her credibility with the conservatives... And make the tea party mad, at the media's reactions... Her credibility with this particular conservative has been in question since the day she picked out of thin air to run for VP. She wasn't picked for her ability. She was picked because she was a fresh face that tried hard to make it look like she was in touch with the salt of the earth Americans. McCain screwed up there.
But, I think she is just using it to make her profile bigger, as her fan base hates the media (I should know...) and this way she can sell more books/tour more, and get better speaking fees. Yes. Good call.
I don't think she is even considering running, just using all of this to tweak the left. I don't believe this. I think she doesn't know when to step down and shut up- or the whole 'blood libel' thing wouldn't have happened in the first place. She'll push her star as far as it'll go.
The way she stays in the news just by posting on facebook is astounding. And the left has such a deranged reaction any time she does anything... They do need something to do it seems
which helps her sell books...
But, seriously, I don't see her running. From my perspective, I just see her manipulating the media to point out the hypocrisy. She has so much power... all from the fingers of a keyboard on facebook... astoundingly impressive. I disagree. I don't think this is a game she's playing. I think she's genuinely interested in a seat somewhere, which is why she flips a lid every time someone points to her and says 'HaHa!"
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 2:58pm
I'm tired of not only how politicized, but publicized, this event has become.
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 5:32pm
Linus wrote:
I'm tired of not only how politicized, but publicized, this event has become. |
Why should it not be highly publicized? It's not often that someone murders a bunch of people and shoots a congresswoman in the face, complete with bungling by the local sheriff. It's a pretty big deal, and legitimately newsworthy.
------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.
Yup, he actually said that.
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 6:05pm
What about the countless times the SAME thing happens in the inner-city due to gang violence? What makes this more newsworthy? A congresswoman? Big whoop. When was the last time you read of a drive-by shooting that took place in LA, out in Canada?
Heck, look at the Canadian bus decapitation 2 years ago. Hardly even knew it happened unless you paid attention to the web, as US news agencies didn't pick it up and run with it.
What about ANY time a decent amount of people die? If it even makes it to the national news circuit, it's just a passing mention. There was a bus crash here in the Dallas area 2 years ago... 16 people dead. Yeah, it got mentioned in local news... not so much nationally.
What about the auto accident I worked on New Years Eve? I literally saw a single sentence on it, on a local news website, barely mentioning the loss of life that happened.
How are any of these less sad than the shooting? Does a shooter instantly make loss of life any worse than a drunk driver?
THAT is why I don't like it being noted in the way it is. The news is essentially saying the life of one of the shooting victims is more important, or atleast newsworthy, than any of the other tragic losses of life, greater in number or not, simply because a congresswoman was there.
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 6:33pm
People dying in a bus crash doesn't particularly call the nation to question anything, except perhaps riding on buses.
Whenever someone shoots at a political representative, especially a member of Congress, I personally think that's a very big deal. If it makes people start questioning the language that's being used in politics today, all the better.
------------- BU Engineering 2012
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 7:27pm
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^very much that.
Also, not to be a pessimist here, but Linus, you seem to be under the impression that the media, and people in general care about everyone equally - which I find almost laughable.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl
Forum Vice President
RIP T&O Forum
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 8:27pm
__sneaky__ wrote:
^very much that.Also, not to be a pessimist here, but Linus, you seem to be under the impression that the media, and people in general care about everyone equally - which I find almost laughable. |
You clearly have not read many of my posts throughout the years. I think there are MANY people who don't deserve to be on this earth and need to die a public death\, and who do not need to be considered of the human species.
There are tragedies that take more lives every day, why are they not news-worthy? Because a congressperson wasn't there? What makes a congressperson so special?
I personally find the life lost of a police officer, firefighter, paramedic or solider MUCH more heartbreaking than that of the average congressman. Yet, how many times do you hear of an officer being killed 10 states away? Hardly ever. How often does the same death carry the news for more than a night? Never.
Tell me why this event trumps that of any other mass-death scenario, man-caused or accident.
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 8:38pm
Linus wrote:
__sneaky__ wrote:
^very much that.Also, not to be a pessimist here, but Linus, you seem to be under the impression that the media, and people in general care about everyone equally - which I find almost laughable. |
You clearly have not read many of my posts throughout the years. I think there are MANY people who don't deserve to be on this earth and need to die a public death\, and who do not need to be considered of the human species.
There are tragedies that take more lives every day, why are they not news-worthy? Because a congressperson wasn't there? What makes a congressperson so special?
I personally find the life lost of a police officer, firefighter, paramedic or solider MUCH more heartbreaking than that of the average congressman. Yet, how many times do you hear of an officer being killed 10 states away? Hardly ever. How often does the same death carry the news for more than a night? Never.
Tell me why this event trumps that of any other mass-death scenario, man-caused or accident. | I never said that you felt all people were on an equal footing. The fact is, most people are more interested in hearing about a member of congress getting shot than they are hearing about a police officer getting shot.
I'd tend to agree with your sentiments that the latter of the two is generally a much more heartbreaking event, but a senator is going to get more ratings than a fireman. Thats just how it works.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl
Forum Vice President
RIP T&O Forum
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 8:48pm
And we come full circle to "I'm tired of not only how politicized, but publicized, this event has become."
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 16 January 2011 at 8:56pm
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I'm annoyed that it was politicized too.
It was publicized because a member of congress got shot. People are interested in hearing about things like that, and the media in their cleverness has figured out, they tend to sell more newspapers if they write about interesting things.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl
Forum Vice President
RIP T&O Forum
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Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 17 January 2011 at 12:54am
It just gets sadder.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110116/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_264 - Link
Short version--one of the surviving victims flipped out at a town meeting and, among other things "took a picture of a local tea party leader and yelled 'you're dead'. . ."before getting himself arrested.
Edited addition: The more I read about this incident the more convinced I become that Giffords was targeted less for party affiliation and more for being handy. (I just don't think the shooter would have been happy with anyone's politics.)
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 17 January 2011 at 1:32am
Ugh. Mack: Agreed, he was angry and nuts and looking for the easiest target with the biggest impact.
The tragedy was bad enough, the way it's getting covered is worse. You had some mentally unstable guy who may or may not have picked up on the background noise of our politics lash out horribly, and probably due to the coverage after the fact, another guy, probably rendered unstable by the shooting, lashing out in a less violent way. I'm to the point where I have to consider if the coverage of these events, and the responses to them, contribute to setting off unstable people. While most of us are arguing different courses of action based on political philosophies a few warped people obviously gain the impression that this is a way of becoming infamous if nothing else.
Our "gun culture" comes into question every time one of these incidences occurs, but I think our fetish for blood in the news and for debate as sport is most of the problem. Every time we click a link to a story about this incident or the "Gun Control", Sarah Palin, Arizona Law" headlines associated with this discussion is just making what this guy did more appealing to other violent, demented people. We're feeding the troll IRL.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 17 January 2011 at 7:50am
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Well, if they totally ban guns, then we wouldn't have this problem, especially large capacity magazines...
You know, like the drugs this kid took that made the military pass on him and then not put it in his record, meaning he could still buy a gun. If the government had only banned the drugs, then clearly he wouldn't have gotten them and made his mind snap.
oh wait...
------------- They tremble at my name...
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