Herman Cain is my front runner... What about you?
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Topic: Herman Cain is my front runner... What about you?
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Subject: Herman Cain is my front runner... What about you?
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 11:37am
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I really, Really, like what I have seen from Herman Cain...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/cain-nearly-quit-campaign-florida-straw-poll-says-115734617.html - http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/cain-nearly-quit-campaign-florida-straw-poll-says-115734617.html
What do you guys think?
It is annoying how the media only talks about Romney (RINO) and Perry, (weak on illegals, and has gumballs in his mouth in debates)
Neither of them are conservative enough for me. But, Cain... Yeah, he brings it, and I agree with most of his stuff. ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Replies:
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 12:45pm
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Romney. ------------- 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 12:51pm
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I'm not really convinced Cain is very electable. His only noteworthy moments so far have been claiming he wouldn't pass any bill more than three pages, quoting a song from the Pokemon movie, and winning the Florida straw poll nobody knew existed before he won it. Which leads me to:
Pretty much is the electable one of the group. |
stratoaxe wrote:Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 1:23pm
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Yeah, I'm curious about that, "Romney" is the only electable one...
Reagan was considered "not electable" when he ran... (and he won the Florida straw poll too... as well as Bush winning that poll too)
Besides, the people elect a candidate, NOT the press, I realize the press is convinced Romney is the "proper" candidate, so they can kill him with Romneycare, and get their messiah ØbamAA++ re-elected.
Romney does have lots of campaign cash, but I still think if conservatives got behind ONE candidate now, instead of waiting for all the candidates to dilute themselves, this could get interesting.
I still kind of wish Palin would run, just to see the media throw a complete fit! Besides, http://www.cnsnews.com/node/34020 - 55% of the public now think the media is completely biased towards the democrats. The more they do to convince the public they care not about presenting the facts and only care about promoting liberalism, the better off the country will be.
example?
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2011/09/26/condescending-abc-dismisses-pizza-baron-cain-nobody-won-fl-straw-pol - http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2011/09/26/condescending-abc-dismisses-pizza-baron-cain-nobody-won-fl-straw-pol
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 1:33pm
| I don't do koolaide bong hits. Funnels are for fuel and oil and stuff not intellectual consumption. |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 1:41pm
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I am going to vote for anyone but Romney in the New Jersey primary (independents can vote in either primary in NJ). I figure my best bet is to pick the craziest one of the bunch of and hope they get the nomination, in which case the Dems will cruise to victory. I really hope I get to vote for Bachmann. ------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 3:56pm
| Tea Party members aren't racist? |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 4:42pm
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Nader ------------- 
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Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 7:25pm
Then you should vote for Ron Paul. That guy is a serious kook. ------------- 
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Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 7:32pm
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At least he doesn't just pander to the kooks. Say what you will about his beliefs, but at least they are his and he sticks to them. -------------
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 7:33pm
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I refuse to go 'lesser of the evils' this election, so unless someone really, REALLY piques my interest, I'm choosing to NOT exercise my right to vote. nearly a year ago, I vowed towards political apathy because I can't get behind the left, and the right can't get behind me. So, screw them all and pass the ammo when the time comes. ------------- ? |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 8:38pm
Right now, everyone, on all sides, looks like a steaming pile of doggie crap.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 8:48pm
I dunno, some Ron Paul fans are quite kooky... 
I don't see this election coming down to that. I think both Romney and Cain are strong political opponents any way you cut it, with good personal histories. Romney has had his controversy, but you have to bear in mind that he's also been in charge of one of the most liberal states in the union. You can't just look at where Romney is, you have to look at where he came from. I'll go ahead and start the ten page argument right now-my problem with this election is tea party ,tea party, tea party. I predicted back when McPalin was running that the Tea Party was going screw up the next election for the Republicans. At the time most Teabaggers were playing it off as "we don't want to be in charge, we just to reform" but now it appears that they've built quite a voice in the Republican party. I really think this is the only reason why Perry is able to hold any kind of serious thought of election. I believe the Tea Party is a fancy new term to cover Neocon interests. They've twisted terminologies and now oppose candidates that are "not conservative enough". This translates to "not far enough right" on the political spectrum, and it's becoming a blatant endorsement of right wing extremism in what has become a rather moderate party. The problem with this is that "far right" and "conservative" are two very different phrases. It's just another way to endorse extremism in parties and move the public away from the moderate, centrist agenda that they're comfortable with. I believe it's going to turn into bullying from the tea party towards moderate and centrist Republicans. Already we're seeing those people ostracized on a personal level, and soon we're going to see candidates pushed away on a political level unless the Republican party grows a pair and puts the tea party in their place. Initially they lacked even structure, simply saying they wanted change and conservatism in politics. This allows the libertarians and neocons to come in push their agendas under a new name. It's like when a terrible phone company merges with a good one and takes their name. Same old bad business under a trusted name. I tried to get behind the tea party at first. But now it seems like just another cheap way to push extreme right wing politic under the guise of grassroots politics, and there's no room for that in the Republican party. Mark my words, if a right wing tea party endorsement gets the bid, Obama wins. Essentially the tea party is going to pull a Perot and push moderate Republicans out the door to third party candidates, not voting, or at worst, voting for Obama. And a full on split from the tea party would spell doom for the Republicans, possibly for more than a decade. But, you can't talk over the shouting in this election, and most of the shouting is coming from the extremists. -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 7:28am
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I just can't conceive that you guys feel that you're accomplishing something by wasting your strong intellect on such cattle feed. If you want to make a difference; bank local and support local business. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 11:45am
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I think ALL the drama about the tea party is just that... drama...
The "tea party" isn't a group, it is a collection of people who believe in one simple idea.
Taxed Enough Already.
That's it.
Anything else isn't "tea party" stuff, it is typical political drivel.
But, the tea party has changed the national discussion, which is the point. Instead of how much the democrats can spend in the next "stimulus" it is now, how much needs to be CUT from the bloated budget.
Oh wait, ØbamAA++ and the democrats haven't PASSED a budget since they took over...
well, anyway, the simple fact is that government grows every year, to PAY for that growth, taxes MUST go up every year as well. Or the growth needs to go the other direction.
The entire focus of the Tea party is to stop the growth of government. IF that means that a typical republican/democrat that feels that it is important for the government to continue growing... Then of course they would be opposed by the tea party. To call the tea party hundreds of names, when it isn't a "person" or "group" in any normal sense of the word, then you see that in fact the establishment has realized that there is a large segment of the voting public that realize that it doesn't matter what you are (D or R) if you will continue with the status quo (increasing government spending each and every year) you need to be voted out of office.
IF that is "far right" then I think you need to re-asses your logic circuit. The point is we have to get our out of control spending government to live within their means... And that starts with a budget, anyone who votes for the democratic party who have proven even when they RUN THE ENTIRE SHOW, they don't care about the budget, or passing a budget, as they know better than all of us and will spend/ "invest" in our future by continually spending more, every year, and a certain segment of our population will continue voting for them... Even when the proof is RIGHT THERE...
THEY HAVEN'T PASSED A BUDGET in YEARS!
Everything else is just symptoms of that spending issue.
I like Cains 9/9/9 plan, finally a NON class warfare plan that equals the playing field, but I can see why D's don't like it, as they are the party of picking winners and losers, They are the party of special rights, not equal rights.
And look where those choices have gotten us? A government that forces banks to give loans to people that EVERYONE KNOWS will not be able to pay for the loans... And then, once the entire housing market crashes from this fraudulent system put in place by the democrats... The Democrats then SUE THE BANKS for doing the loans that were FORCED on them with threats of investigations and jail if they didn't...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/business/bank-suits-over-mortgages-are-filed.html - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/business/bank-suits-over-mortgages-are-filed.html
unreal.
"Buried in the filings themselves, however, is a damning portrait of the excesses of the housing bubble, when borrowers were able to obtain home loans without basic proof of income or creditworthiness, and banks appeared only too happy to mine profits taking the risky loans and assembling them into securities that could be sold to investors. "
why would banks allow people to obtain loans without basic proof of income or creditworthiness?
Oh yeah, "because everyone DESERVES the rights of home ownership"... AKA CLINTON...
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html - http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html
The country has gone so far to the left, that the economy has been destroyed, the pendulum swinging back to the middle will not fix this problem... Unless 16% unemployment is acceptable to you, while companies continue to leave the US? It will take a massive restructuring of the government to fix our economic woes.
and it all starts with the budget... Because the people are "TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY"... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: ArthurBignose
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 12:14pm
Is that really necessary? ------------- |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 12:25pm
Seems like a silly thing to base a group/collection/formation/constructure on, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041503371.html - seeing as taxes are at historic lows.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 12:28pm
On what politically legitimate scale?
We're hardly even a center country when compared on the global scale. We've historically been, and continue to be, a right-of-center country.
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 12:47pm
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Right now the left is doing all it can to demonize Cain. If Cain gets the nod as President or Vice the left ideology and rhetoric about the Tea Party being racist and playing the race card goes down the toilet.
Look how Sharpton and Jackson played down Obama when there was the chance Hillary would get the nod on 08, and they wanted a place at Hillary's table if elected, the left's race policies are just as damaging to them as the right internaly. The Florida straw poll is indicative of voter disgust at all the so called 'front-runners' being same ole crap, but packaged in a differant bag. The ABO (anyone but Obama) voter is going to play a large part in this election, whether they vote for the GOP, or just don't show to vote Democrat. As with NY9 the Dems are panicked that they are losing the base, and the repackaged and failed economic policies from Obama, as well as the potential issues with the stimulus (see Solyndra) and the Health Care Act now before the Supremes. The fact the Dems while having all three did not pass a budget, and still have not ptoposed one credible enough to pass (the Dem compromise of agree with us 100% in order to pass is not an option, nor compromise). I often see a Johnson move by the Dems, the 1968 Johnson bow out since the Dems saw him as unelectable at that time, I don't think Johnson made decesion wholely on his own, but was coererced for 'the good of the party'. I also see Hillary in a primary run against Obama, if the negative Obama trend does not change here real soon. Whale you do understand 'perception is the truth of the moment' on both sides. The anti-Tea Party Rhetoric based mainly on the needed perception by the left, as well as the anti-Obama rhetoric based again on a needed perception. Somewhere in that maze is 'the truth', but it is to no-ones advantage to actually speak said truth. I would love to see a Cain vs Obama election, what would the left use to demonize Cain besides the 'he left the plantation' rhetoric the left uses on any minority or female that moved to the right. Obama was raised by a white grandmother and went to privledged private schools all his life, so how does he as 'half-black' contend with a pure black in the needed 'black man' perception war against Cain. ------------- 
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 12:52pm
Yeah, I love the whole liberal spin about taxes being historic lows... So unbelievably untrue, but whatever...
If you want to call them "regulations" fine, but they are in fact increased costs that further burden business... You know the "business" that HIRES people, as government produces nothing of value that can be sold... They only leech off of businesses.
I guess to you ØbamAA++care is not in fact a "tax", even though the administration is arguing in court they have legal rights to take over healthcare because of their right to "tax"... Oh wait... Which was it again?
My healthcare costs have gone up 100% since Obamacare was started... Oh wait, it hasn't even kicked in yet, as it takes 10 years to pay for 5 years of "services".
No wonder liberalism is called a mental disorder, wonder what will happen when the EPA starts putting coal power plants out of business with their
We got 2 full years of liberal control, and look what they accomplished? They ran it all, and yet, not a single budget was passed, and MASSIVE new government, and spending...
What did that do to the economy?
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 12:57pm
Ø stands for ZERO JOBS
and the AA++ for being the FIRST PRESIDENT EVAR to hurt the countries credit rating to AA from AAA...
So yeah, it fits, and is necessary, as many of you guys were on the "keynesian" intercontinental train ride built by the navy corPsman that travels to that elusive 57th state...
I'd be wittier, but I didn't get a free ivy league education that would have made me understand how to spin liberalism from failure to success...
Besides, even with my public education from NC, even I know where Colorado is located...
 ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 2:15pm
It's data. Do you have an actual criticism of the collection or analysis of the data?
Regulations and taxes are completely different things with completely different mechanics and completely different purposes. To intentionally conflate them is being intentionally obtuse.
This is a false assumption that the basis of economy is simply market. The government forms the setting to take place. The services offered and utilized from the government to business keeps the cogs moving, and keeps business competitive and active. This is a concept even Adam Smith could grasp.
I cannot tell if you are being intentionally obtuse by ignoring the facts of the HCRA that have been discussed here before, but this has been well covered. The HCRA requires that all citizens of the U.S. purchase health insurance, almost exclusively from private health care companies. It is giving the private health care companies a blank check tethered to the U.S. population. It's this aspect of the HCRA that is being examined, currently, for its constitutionality. This is, in no political or economic terms, a "take over" of any industry. There are well defined lines that are followed when a government "takes over" the health industry, as often happens in more liberal countries. All insurance is operated and centrally organized through the state. Doctors operated and are organized through the state. The state controls all health related budgets, and occasionally, some private specialists are permitted to operate. The HCRA does none of that. It's partially why the thing is a mess.
And your blame for this, if it is indeed true, is with the health insurance companies increasing their prices because they can just as much as it is with any legislation.
You still don't know what that word means. Funny.
One, I don't believe this is a legitimate concern to have. Two, if and when that day actually comes, it will happen after a growth in affordable renewable energy and a revamping of the U.S. grid to handle a more diverse array of energy.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 2:17pm
Two questions. One, did you read the downgrade report? Two, do you know what the countries with AAA ratings all happen to have in common?
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 2:17pm
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Perry would be the antithesis of Obama.
However, Romney will end up getting the nomination due to the fact that more moderates would vote for him than Perry.
Smaller populations. ------------- 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 2:36pm
So a large population country is incapable of maintaining an AAA rating?
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 3:04pm
 ------------- 
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Posted By: Linus
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 3:48pm
You asked what they all have in common, and the 3 largest population countries now all lack AAA credit.  -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 3:51pm
It's an interesting correlation for sure. I wasn't being snarky when I asked, it was an honest question. Is excess population level something that is prohibitive in keeping a stable enough economy to warrant a top credit rating? It's probably not a bad variable to consider. If you look at the countries with full AAA ratings, they are all smaller countries - both population and geographical.
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 3:54pm
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I do believe that the statistic of Federal Income taxes being lower now than than the 50's is probably true, but the total amount of all taxes combined paid by the taxpayer is now considerably higher than the 50's where many of the current taxes did not even exsist yet. -------------
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Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 6:58pm
You ACTUALLY believe this? -------------
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Posted By: harshieB
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 12:05am
| The previous CEO of Godfather Pizza and Republican presidential confident Herman Cain claims he thought of stopping his campaign two times. That was before he achieved the Florida "Presidency Five" straw poll Saturday. http://Herman%20Cain%20considered%20quitting%20his%20campaign%20twice%20before%20straw%20poll - Herman Cain considered quitting his campaign twice before straw poll . It has been an especially rocky campaign period for the GOP, which seems to embrace “darlings” of the moment and then turn on them in rapid succession. The in-fighting and the lack of solidarity in the party — possibly due to the rise in influence of the Tea Party, which many believe is sharply dividing conservatives — has made it difficult for a front-runner to emerge. Perry is only the most recent front-runner to lose favor. Should Cain receive the nomination, it would be a historic campaign, with two black men vying for the highest office in the nation. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 12:33am
This is the problem that I just pointed out. You take a political movement with no real political ideology (sorry, cutting taxes doesn't count as an ideology since the existing Republican party has pushed tax cuts for a while) and give it an influence in Washington, the kooks and nutcases are going to step in and use the faceless movement to forward their agendas. While YOU may have no political agenda other than lowering taxes and cutting spending (again, traditional conservative economics), this is clearly not the case in the Republican party. The tea party is opposed to all but the most right wing candidates, and they're using their voice to accomplish this goil. What teabaggers don't seem to understand is while they can manipulate the Republican party, the voters don't care about their agenda. Extreme right or left wing candidates are unelectable, and getting back to the topic of this thread, putting in uber conservative right wingers is just going to cost the Republicans an election. So what the tea party will achieve is to give the country back to the dems for another four years. But just like people who voted for Perot, they're too blind to see who they're really giving their vote to. They think the country is in some kind of right wing revolution, when all studies and polls point to a centrist position (something that has been drilled over and over on this forum). In fact, most conservatives I know have moved a little over to the left the past few years. A faceless movement in politics is dangerous because it WILL get twisted one way or the other. Also...Chris Christie. Just more proof that the powers that be on the right will push literally any name but Romney's. /facepalm -------------
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Posted By: annewayne
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 2:12am
| The previous CEO of Godfather Pizza and Republican presidential confident Herman Cain claims he thought of stopping his campaign two times. That was before he achieved the Florida "Presidency Five" straw poll Saturday. Article source: http://www.newsytype.com/11888-herman-cain-considered-quitting/ - Herman Cain considered quitting his campaign twice before straw poll .Actually this may consider a long battle of campaign for Cain.And I'm glad it has been resulted to a victory straw poll. |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 2:30am
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Political spambot?
What's it's angle? KBK ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 7:53am
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It's a subliminal advertisement for straw. -------------
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 8:31am
You don't?
2008-2010 Who was in control of the house? Pelosi
2008-2010 Who was in control of the Senate? Reid
2008-2010 Who is in the white house? Obama.
2009 they would need to pass a 2010 budget, The democrats were totally in charge of everything. It is called a super majority. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/04/the-democratic-supermajority-what-does-it-mean/16799/ - http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/04/the-democratic-supermajority-what-does-it-mean/16799/
They didn't need a SINGLE republican vote for ANYTHING.
That my friend is ABSOLUTE CONTROL... You can't blame "bush" or anyone else, for what followed. If doing their job and passing a budget was important... THEY WOULD HAVE!
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT FOLLOWING THEIR MOST BASIC JOB... Budgets... They only care about increasing government spending (more power and control for them).
http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/05/dems-breathtaking-refusal-pass-budget - http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/05/dems-breathtaking-refusal-pass-budget
April 29th 2009 was the date of the last budget that passed through congress and the president signed...
"Passing a yearly budget for the federal government is a fundamental responsibility of Congress. Lawmakers do not have to spend their time naming post offices or passing health care reform. But they do have to pass a budget. In 2010, neither the House nor the Senate did so. It’s not that members just didn’t get around to it, which would have been scandalous enough. No, Reid and then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi feared that passing a budget would hurt their chances in the November midterm elections. So they did nothing and took a beating at the polls anyway.
Now Pelosi is out of the picture. But Reid is still at it. The Republican-controlled House has passed a budget, but Reid will not produce a Democratic spending proposal. And if Reid doesn’t want to pass a budget, then a budget won’t be passed; the majority leader controls what is and what is not considered in the Senate. “There’s no need to have a Democratic budget, in my opinion,” Reid told the Los Angeles Times last week. “It would be foolish for us to do a budget at this stage.” Instead, Reid wants to wait to see if the deficit-reduction meetings led by Vice President Biden bear any fruit. Before that, Reid wanted to wait for the Gang of Six — now nearly defunct — to come up with something. Sessions was appalled when he read Reid’s words. “It was a fundamental statement that they’re playing politics,” Sessions said. “They don’t think it’s politically smart to produce a budget. They’d rather produce nothing and attack Paul Ryan and the Republicans and think they’re going to gain politically by avoiding their fundamental statutory responsibility. It’s pretty breathtaking to me.” Reid isn’t alone. The chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, Kent Conrad, is also happy to not produce a budget. Last week, he told reporters that he planned to “defer” work on a 2012 budget indefinitely. It drives Republicans crazy that Democrats could so brazenly abandon such a basic responsibility. On Monday morning, all 47 GOP senators signed a letter to Reid in hopes of shaming the majority leader into action. “Last year, Congress failed to pass a budget, failed to pass any of the twelve annual appropriations bills, and failed the nation by recklessly funding the government on a series of short-term spending bills,” the letter said. “The Senate cannot make the same mistake again.” Oh, yes it can. At Reid’s instigation, the Senate will engage this week in a meaningless faux debate over the budget. Reid wants the Senate to vote on the House-passed GOP/Ryan budget, so that Reid and fellow Democrats can accuse Republicans of voting to kill Medicare. In return, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell will likely force a vote on President Obama’s proposed budget from a few months ago that did virtually nothing to reduce the deficit, so Republicans can accuse Democrats of ignoring the fiscal crisis. All that will take place instead of the Senate having a substantive debate and coming up with a compromise budget that can actually pass." I can't believe you don't know that... Unreal, what is with our media that the public doesn't know the way the democrats are blatantly abusing their power... And the media covers for them so you don't know this...
Unbelievable... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:25am
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Here is an interesting article about Cain.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/herman_cain_swims_with_the_sharks.html - http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/herman_cain_swims_with_the_sharks.html ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:40am
WAIT...
Where did I say CUT taxes?
See what you did there, you twisted it? The movement isn't about CUTTING taxes! It is about taxed ENOUGH ALREADY!
Even you don't see the difference. What the movement is about is the level we are at right now, KEEP IT THE SAME!
Now that means that the government will have to only SPEND what it takes in RIGHT NOW... NO MORE. and yet, they are spending litterally TRILLIONS more than they bring in.
Not Billions... TRILLIONS.
That is the issue, the massive spending, NOT TAXES. (because everyone realizes that if you increase spending, over time you WILL HAVE TO increase taxes to cover the new debt incurred with the massive spending).
The media wants everyone to focus on taxes, but the issue is not taxes but spending. Clearly you are buying into the hype.
The tea party is not about cutting taxes, but about cutting government spending to force them to live within their means, to make a budget and stick to it. It isn't a novel concept but the shocking thing is how so many miss the entire point.
But, that is the goal of a liberal media, to twist the message to something they can destroy, regardless if it is true or not. ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 10:13am
You are conflating the issues of taxation with the issue of expenditures. While they often do have a relationship, they are not the same things.
And because of increased population and changes in society, you'll have to spend more, and at some point you will have to assess the taxation situation to see if what you are collecting is appropriate.
You profess that the group is an acronym for the false premise of "taxed enough already." If the group doesn't want to be seen as focusing on taxes, they're certainly not doing a very good job.
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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 12:50pm
The report does state it was the fault of the whole government, including the administration. I'm not trying to take away the blame from the other branches of government at all. I'm just saying the report does say that. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 1:02pm
Oh, no doubt. The executive branch was named just as the legislative was. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 07 October 2011 at 12:47pm
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Cain's gain!
This guy will DELIVER!
http://news.yahoo.com/poll-cain-surges-opens-20-point-lead-romney-132015440.html - http://news.yahoo.com/poll-cain-surges-opens-20-point-lead-romney-132015440.html
What do you guys think about his 999 tax plan? ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 07 October 2011 at 3:16pm
Found this today:  |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 07 October 2011 at 3:32pm
| who is herman cain? |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 07 October 2011 at 3:52pm
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according to MSNBC, he is some anti civil rights, draft dodger, who is running for the GOP nomination...
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/07/msnbcs-odonnell-lectures-herman-cain-on-fighting-for-civil-rights-service-in-military/#ooid=d0dm92MjofyFur8pGPmxzIqwAeQpR4BF - http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/07/msnbcs-odonnell-lectures-herman-cain-on-fighting-for-civil-rights-service-in-military/#ooid=d0dm92MjofyFur8pGPmxzIqwAeQpR4BF ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 07 October 2011 at 4:24pm
| Wheres Romney? |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 07 October 2011 at 7:16pm
Being spit on my the uber right wing elements of the GOP and ignored by the media.
Unfortunately, Romney has no gimmick, so the media isn't interested in him, and he's far too "liberal" for the tea party's taste.
If I sound bitter, I am  .-------------
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 08 October 2011 at 10:46am
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"They were behind putting Planned Parenthoods on every poor
neighborhood's corner for the purpose of genocide against people of
color." I loled at the comments ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 08 October 2011 at 11:11am
I think the idea of the chart was to track the quick rise and fall of those other than Romney. All of those candidates have been proposed as a Romney alternative.
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 17 October 2011 at 1:12pm
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Romney is clearly the "progressive" candidate, promoted by the establishment republicans, and the media as the only suitable choice...
And yet, Cain keeps rising. As he is leading in countless polls, and yesterday was on Meet the Press, and knocked it out of the park.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups - http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups
He may not have the money, or the press, but he has the tea party support, and plan to get rid of the burdensome tax code that rewards friends and penalizes enemies, and make it all the same for everyone. So that GE will actually PAY taxes instead of being a friend to the current administration and paying NOTHING.
And Cain's theme song is incredible!
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 12:13am
Numbers time:  |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 12:52am
|
I would vote for Michael Palin. Unfortunately he's not a US citizen.
------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 5:36am
Which is why no reasonable person will ever vote for him, and he will be beaten out by Romney in the primaries. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 7:52am
| I really hope Romney wins. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 8:36am
|
So Cain was at an event and the geni went out, so what did he do?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/15/cains-impossible-dream-resonates-with-voters/#ixzz1asO1HN5T - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/15/cains-impossible-dream-resonates-with-voters/#ixzz1asO1HN5T
You guys may think he has no chance, but I'm telling you, Americans are SICK of "politicians" and Romney is the Ken Barbie of politicians... He looks, sounds and acts like a "candidate", but people can't connect with him because of that. He has been running for president for 6 years.
Cain on the other hand wants to SOLVE problems. And right now, in our country we need a problem solver... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 10:47am
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msnbc points out just how biased the media is...
In their own words.
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/morning-joe-if-cain-were-democrat-media-would-be-swooning-over-him-they-did-obama - http://www.mrctv.org/videos/morning-joe-if-cain-were-democrat-media-would-be-swooning-over-him-they-did-obama
Yup, I have to agree... (although I'm sure Whale wouldn't see this as media bias) ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 12:10pm
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How exactly is he going to solve problems by trying to completely overhaul the countries tax code twice? Especially when the first overhaul will raise taxes on the poor and middle class while the second overhaul will then lower them?
It makes no sense. But 9/9/9 sounds cool as a name I guess. ------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 12:46pm
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I don't know all the answers to his plan, but from what I have read/heard he will take away ALL the current taxes.
All of them.
SS included, as well as FICA. Those are taxes that are essentially "hidden" from the public as they don't even consider them as they get taken out of their check/employers pocket.
So that will be replaced with a flat 9 percent income tax. Which is easy, and doesn't have all the "special" rights built into the current tax code, where some people pay more, and others pay less. It would be a fair system.
Then you would have a 9 percent sales tax on everything. So if you buy used (thrift store, or online) you would pay NO tax on the things you purchase, which would make people less likely to throw things out as the second hand market would increase dramatically.
Plus, currently everything we buy has taxes taken out in EVERY process of production, if you saw the actual cost of a gallon of gas vs the cost based on all the taxes at every step of the way, you would be shocked. All of that would be taxed ONCE. Which would logically lower the cost for ALL products significantly.
This is a point that the media/republicans/democrats don't want you to pay attention to... They make TONS of money off of all these hidden taxes. And WE pay those taxes every time we buy something. So now those cost to make a product would go way down, and then the free enterprise system would kick in... Companies would want more market share, and would lower prices, because their profit was now much higher since they didn't have all those hidden taxes included in the price of their product. THAT is where you would see a significant difference in our current system, and THAT is what everyone ignores. The loaf of bread is a good example. The farmer buys the seed, fertilizer, and other chemicals and pays taxes ON EVERY PURCHASE, then he sells the wheat which is taxed again, then the company makes it into flour, which is taxed again, then the flour is purchased by a distributer... taxed again, then the company that makes the bread buys the flour and makes the bread... taxed again, then the supermarket buys the bread from the manufacturer, and you buy the bread and guess what... YOU pay tax again...
All those taxes would go away, and you would have ONE 9 percent tax.
That is the story that the media and political elites hope you don't pay attention too... They have been gaming the system for years and we all pay the difference. Of course they don't want to limit their income!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637310315367804.html - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637310315367804.html
No more hiring tax professionals to help you "hide" your tax costs by manipulating the system, no more GE paying ZERO taxes. No more rewarding your "friends" while penalizing your enemies. And this stops the government from hurting businesses they don't like while rewarding business they do like...
So of course the media and politicians hate this plan! ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 12:55pm
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I think there is a problem with your bread example due to the fact that most of those entities would be purchasing goods as part of a production process or for resale and therefore do not pay taxes on those items. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 1:00pm
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I hate the plan because it makes no sense.
Why would you implement an entire overhaul of the tax code and then overhaul it again to move to a 30% national sales tax? You did see phase two of his tax plan on his website right? It makes no sense other than the fact that the fair tax isn't politically popular.
-------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 1:04pm
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If everyone is forced to pay taxes, wouldn't this pretty much assure that there would have to be a rise in pay? ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 1:51pm
Thank you for proving my point... The public DOES NOT understand all the hidden taxes that are now a MAJOR part of the cost of EVERY product produced.
You only think of ONE type of tax... And yet, do all those companies NOT pay any taxes to get the materials to the baker? Of course they pay taxes, they hire employees to drive the trucks, run the equipment that makes the flour, pick up the eggs, property taxes, ss taxes, income taxes... ALL of which are "hidden" into the costs of each piece of inventory that goes into the loaf of bread... But, as a society we pretend all those taxes are burdened by the "rich" business owner...
Ahh, NO, WE PAY THOSE TAXES in higher costs for products.
Reagan said that a loaf of bread has 151 taxes included in it accounting for more than HALF of the cost of that bread... And that was in the mid 70's... Has the tax code gotten bigger or smaller since then? (the tax code NEVER gets smaller, "special" rights are written by every congress, and new taxes are always being discussed and passed, or regulations whatever you want to call them).
http://reason.com/archives/1975/07/01/inside-ronald-reagan/4 - http://reason.com/archives/1975/07/01/inside-ronald-reagan/4
Imagine if you cut the costs of everything by half...
That is what the 9-9-9 plan would do as it eliminates all of those federal taxes... Then we would just have property taxes (a state issue) and state taxes to deal with...
As to your comment about raising pay to pay for the taxes... The poor would not pay their 9 percent. And the lowering of the taxes on the backs of business would change the cost per employee significantly, making it cheaper to have employees... So yes, they would have MORE money that they could pocket, or lower prices, or raise pay...
Free enterprise would dictate the results. Which would be strange for sure... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 3:19pm
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Not saying Cain is the antichrist....
http://nation.foxnews.com/herman-cain/2011/10/11/bachmann-goes-after-cains-tax-plan-turn-9-9-9-upside-down - But Cain is the antichrist.
-------------
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 3:25pm
Yeah FE, I know about the Reagan example. It's not how you stated it.
Regardless, until someone sits down and draws out something clear and concise as to how much revenue it will raise and whether is will be able to sustain current social programs such as SS, Medicare and others, I am skeptical. I also have read that it does away with capital gains taxes, which I am not in favor of, especially since so much of the top percentages wealth is actually tied up investments where the dividends are classified as captial gains. Income is income no matter where it comes from. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 6:04pm
There has been a lot of legitimate analysis on it. Most of which shows it is silly at best, harmfully simplistic and regressive at worst. Yes, it seems bad that tax code is complex. But I'd much rather examine and change the existing constructed and thought-out tax code than attempt to use what amounts to bumper-sticker logic.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 6:11pm
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Oldpbnoob, here's http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1941800 - one of the more analytical examinations of the plan: It's written by a law professor at USC. Here's the abstract: (But the whole thing is worth a read. It's only 25 pages)
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 6:34pm
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*cough* generally speaking wholesale food sales aren't taxed so the bread thing is bull-spit anyway *cough*
Cain couldn't even figure out a simple way to talk about his "simplified" tax code in the debates last night. It's a two person race for the republican primary. Romney and Perry. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 19 October 2011 at 7:45pm
|
Anyone who thinks a black man will ever be elected president is insane.
------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 20 October 2011 at 8:55am
I'd say I wasnt going to vote for him, but by the time the primaries reach here it's already narrowed down. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 8:20am
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More info just released about the 9-9-9 plan...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/20/cain-adds-to-plan-angering-unions/ - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/20/cain-adds-to-plan-angering-unions/
Unions are furious... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 8:29am
That seems to be the thing with this 9-9-9 silliness (And, often times this seems to be the case, the more you try to condense something that is rather complex, the more silly it gets): It does have some decent ideas. They're just sprinkled about in a heap of other pretty rotten consequences. If we decide not to have a capital gains tax, or estate tax, of which my personal mind isn't really made up one way or another, it's better to push for editing our existing tax code than to go with bumper sticker logistics. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 9:28am
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So editing 10 million words full of special deals for special people is a good thing?
But, throwing out all of that corruption, and starting over is a bad thing?...
Anything proposed would have to pass the congress, so it really doesn't matter what the plan says now... It would be different by the time it was put into law.
I just think it is clear that we have a system IN PLACE that is completely corrupt, did you see GE's earnings they just posted... How much did they pay in taxes this year...
yeah, that current tax code is clearly something that lawyers, and accountants would want to stay! ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 9:36am
Legally adjusting, sure. It's been done in the past. The tax code is certainly different that how it was in times past, especially considering the record low level of percentage of collected taxes in recent times. Subsidies come and go. Tax breaks come and go, and are adjusted. If they were not, all the charts that get thrown around in taxation threads wouldn't be worth anything - they'd be flat lines. The ability for a code system, like taxes, to be adjusted is one of the benefits of the system. Scrapping it for a regressive, hardly thought-out bumper sticker phrase is indeed rather silly.
Silly was the word I used.
I've got no problems with taxing GE, and other large corporations, well above what their current rate is. I'm glad you support me on that one.
Is that supposed to make it bad somehow? |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 10:00am
|
I guess I am crazy to think that "all men are created equal" therefore all men should be taxed fairly...
something about "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" that just strikes me as odd, that SOME get special deals because of their influence on lawmakers...
Currently the rich pay the bulk of the taxes, in a scale that everyone agrees taxes the rich much higher than the lower income who many pay NOTHING...
So we already have left the will of the constitution years ago... Seems like the best way to get rid of the chrony capitalism, is to GET RID of the current system that is CLEARLY so corrupt...
Calling the 9-9-9 plan silly is just feeding into meme that we can't make a major change to a corrupt system, we have to just pick and choose winners and losers...
And you know how I feel about that.
This plan is FAIR. And isn't that the goal? Fairness? Did you see that the plan includes NO TAXES on capital investments IF AND ONLY IF, the capital investments were MANUFACTURED IN THE USA... That is just silly... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 10:10am
The definitions of "fair" we are both examining are not the same. I'd rather have a pragmatically and economically smart-designed system than one based on ideology.
I highly doubt you'd be pleased with the result of ending all tax exemptions and subsidies on any scale.
Currently the rich also have more wealth.
Pragmatic economic construction trumps ideology. Many of those who do not make enough to pay taxes - the poor, young, elderly, etc. - are a benefit to the economy when they don't have to pay some Federal taxes. It means they have money that will be liquidated and spent into the market, as opposed to hoarded. Not to mention this is most likely intentional conflation of concepts on your behalf. The poor, who don't make enough to pay some Federal taxes, still pay other taxes, particularly state taxes and sales taxes. And, they spend a larger percentage of their earnings on said taxes than those with more. It's mathematics.
Show your work please.
I'm adding the whole "pick and choose winners" thing you repeat on the list of things like "Liberalism" and "causation" that you don't seem to understand.
To whom?
I'll take stability over ideology.
It's inherently anti-capitalistic and anti-free enterprise. So, you're putting your weight behind a system that supports anti-capitalistic protectionism?
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 10:35am
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and again, the poor don't have to pay the tax under Cains plan... You really should read it...
Actually, we don't have a "free enterprise" system. As I have told you many, many times in the past, China manipulates their currency, and floods America with low priced products, through corrupt government interaction to the trade system by changing the "cost" of products to a point that they lose money on every purchase... But, the people can't do anything about it as they aren't in charge, they just live in a poor standard of living country in little tiny houses and deal with it...
So the free enterprise system would still be in place, in this system, you would just have to pay more if you purchase capital investments from out of the country, where currency manipulations are common.
Today, paper is coming into the US market that is forcing US paper manufacturers out of business. They price the paper MUCH lower than they can manufacture it in the states, and what does that do? Well, the paper mills in the US close down. Now you are welcome too research this phenomenon, but I can tell you as I see the US paper mill lists shrink every year, that hundreds of thousands of jobs have been lost to this manipulation of currency that other countries do with regularity. It is the main reason there is such a trade imbalance right now with China, and other asian countries. In case you hadn't noticed, China is communist. The businesses are TOLD what they can and can't do by the government, who also subsidizes the industries to get a larger share of worldwide demand.
Now liberals want to do the same thing (example all the "green" stimulus money spent) except they aren't in control of everything in the US, so the massive money that it would take to do this successfully isn't available to them, and China just beats them at their own game... And it fails, and the US loses Billions.
We aren't a communist country with one ruler who makes all the rules... (even though Øbama has tried to bypass congress on countless things). So all of these green businesses will be in trouble unless he can raise the cost of our energy to make their business models successful... Ahh, the EPA forcing coal plants to shut down, now makes more sense, huh... (without the approval of congress...)
Guess, what, that hurts all other business as he is now finding out, as they can't compete in their businesses with all of these manipulations to OUR free enterprise system. It is destroying it from within.
As to the show your work comment. Look at Solyndra and the way they got their loan, then got it reworked so that the democratic supporters were "protected" when it was clear it was going to fail... look at sunpower, look at the attacks on Gibson, look at GE not paying taxes and the president being on Øbama's "jobs" panel, look at the new ABC report on the latest "green" scam with the cars being made in FINLAND, look at the unions who were GIVEN stock in the new GM company, and Chrysler... All examples of Chrony capitalism and products of the "special rights for his friends, while penalizing his enemies" of the Obama administration. ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 10:48am
So all products sold in the U.S., not made in the U.S., are from China?
 So it'd be a free enterprise system except where it wouldn't be?
That's capitalism. You have to take the good with the bad.
China is a communist country, in that it has a communist federal government structure. Their economy is rather capitalistic, especially as of late. |
Posted By: DaveEllis
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 12:16pm
 |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 12:47pm
|
http://economyincrisis.org/content/another-paper-mill-closes -
http://economyincrisis.org/content/another-paper-mill-closes
"Since 2000, China has increased its paper output threefold, which seems like a daunting task given the fact that China’s forest base is the smallest in the world per capita, it has an already saturated domestic paper market and very little competitive advantage, even in labor costs.
Instead, China’s growth has been fueled through illegal subsidies, mostly in the form of tax breaks, loans - some of which are not expected to be paid back - and discounted electricity and raw materials. From 2002 to 2009, the Chinese government poured $33.1 billion into what should be an unproductive industry. But, with the help of government subsidies, China was able to ride export-driven growth to become the world’s leading producer of paper products. In the same time frame that China pumped $33 billion into its paper industry, U.S. employment in the industry fell 29 percent, from 557,000 workers to just 398,000. That amounts to a seven year total of 167,000 jobs lost for an annual average of nearly 24,000 jobs in the industry." Weird... that is just what I was saying...
http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/paper-mill-closes-after-more-than-100-years-in-franklin-1239876.html - http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/paper-mill-closes-after-more-than-100-years-in-franklin-1239876.html
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/10/franklin-paper-mill-close-1100-lose-jobs - http://hamptonroads.com/2009/10/franklin-paper-mill-close-1100-lose-jobs
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122671649.html - http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122671649.html
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/04/08/business/katahdin-paper-mills%E2%80%99-sale-negotiations-halted-investor-says/ - http://bangordailynews.com/2011/04/08/business/katahdin-paper-mills%E2%80%99-sale-negotiations-halted-investor-says/
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 12:57pm
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We're measuring forests per capita now? Surely there is a better way, like, I dunno, maybe a unit of area? http://www.china.org.cn/e-news/news071204-1.htm - http://www.china.org.cn/e-news/news071204-1.htm ------------- 
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Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 1:38pm
This sounds exactly like the things you were just complaining about. -------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 2:00pm
If so, what sense does it make to raise taxes on the poor for X number of years (X = as long as it takes to educate the American people about the flat tax according to the Cain website) only to then reduce them in the future? How will collecting disposable income from the poor create economic renewal? -------------
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 6:37pm
Posted By: agentwhale007 Date Posted: 03 December 2011 at 8:16pm
Posted By: mbro Date Posted: 03 December 2011 at 8:42pm
Posted By: rednekk98 Date Posted: 03 December 2011 at 8:48pm
Posted By: impulse418 Date Posted: 03 December 2011 at 9:01pm
Posted By: stratoaxe Date Posted: 03 December 2011 at 10:02pm
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