Russia: Israeli threat of strikes on Iran 'a mista
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Topic: Russia: Israeli threat of strikes on Iran 'a mista
Posted By: impulse418
Subject: Russia: Israeli threat of strikes on Iran 'a mista
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 8:24am
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?_r=1&hp - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?_r=1&hp The title is misleading.  But scary to think we would use Iran's name for such a ploy. Get attention off of Occupy Wallstreet? Mmm don't think so. *Cough* Fast & Furious *cough* *cough* Eric Holder *cough* |
Replies:
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 8:38am
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Well, thats a piss-off. I vote that you change the title. |
Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 2:14pm
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I hope the cops from the Bronx go down and bust up the Wall Street occupation. NYC did that lot during the 60's and 70's.
------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 2:23pm
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yeah they need to bust out the water cannons and start splitting heads open real soon. i mean this just isn't going to get good until people start getting boot stomped to the skull while lying prone. hopefully they can bring together teams of 5 or 6 for each protester to deliver massive skull crushing boot stomps. I don't mean to sound selfish or anything but life is getting boring lately and i need something exciting to watch on tv |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 4:18pm
I think you need a hug.
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Lightningbolt wrote:Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 4:25pm
Yeah, for real. I saw the headline and went straight to Drudgereport.
But honestly, as much as I really think impulse needs to back off / increase the meds, I always wonder in situations like this if that sudden random event that sparks with a country we've had issues with for years is legit.
It was like right after 9/11 and Iraq is suddenly stockpiling WMD's and MUST BE STOPPED. Then Osama is captured as Obama's numbers drop, and now after years of anti-US / anti-Israel rhetoric,suddenly Iran is busted in a crazy assassination to blow up a Saudi ambassador.
If I recall correctly, it was later proven that the event that sparked the Vietnam war was staged. Wouldn't surprise me at all. ------------- 
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 3:08pm
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http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=www.lefigaro.fr/international/2011/10/13/01003-20111013ARTFIG00709-l-iran-prepare-une-bombe-nucleaire.php - http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=www.lefigaro.fr/international/2011/10/13/01003-20111013ARTFIG00709-l-iran-prepare-une-bombe-nucleaire.php They are coming Iran |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 3:17pm
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 3:27pm
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When the solyndra scandal first happened (FBI raid)... Homeland security suddenly said we all had to look out for two ryder trucks with bombs... That was the friday before Sept 11th. It was a total wag the dog moment, as no trucks were found, no bombs went off, and the media was in a frenzy over news on the subject and solyndra raid was ignored on the nightly news and cable news.
I watched that night to see news on the Solyndra raid, and all they had for hours was this drama about this impending terrorist attack... And after that weekend, it was never mentioned again. ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 15 October 2011 at 1:33am
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My lord, I'm thinking along like FE, this is creep. Weren't we also shown mugshots of the guys, and informed that some had entered the country sand there was some sort of huge manhunt? Do we think they said "Ah screw it, they're onto us, let's bail?" Whenever a terrorist attempt is foiled in this way i have to wonder if since the guy in question was talking to the FBI the whole time instead of cartel members, bomb-makers etc. if the FBI undercovers might have been a little more involved in the planning of the operation and bordering on entrapment, and just happned to pull in some crank who was dumb enough to buy in. As for "Wag the Dog" I met the author of the book a few years ago at a party and had a pretty lengthy discussion with him, I'd pay good money to see the two of you talk politics. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 15 October 2011 at 5:01pm
Man, knowing FE, he probably went to high school with him, or nailed his sister, or is friends with him... |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 15 October 2011 at 5:06pm
I lol'd. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 16 October 2011 at 7:27pm
| http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/iran-warns-west-of-strong-confrontation-to-any-inappropriate-measures-1.390219 - http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/iran-warns-west-of-strong-confrontation-to-any-inappropriate-measures-1.390219 |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 16 October 2011 at 10:42pm
I couldn't read passed that. |
Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 17 October 2011 at 12:08am
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Ahmadinnerjacket is so great. If only he was joking.
------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 17 October 2011 at 11:54pm
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Skip to 5:00 minute mark. He talks about Iran. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 7:41am
| Dude, nobody cares about what Iran said. They're playing with fire, and they are going to get burned if they keep it up. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 8:26am
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except, the sheriff that arrested the "terrorist" said publicly that this entire thing was "invented" by the feds, he said that this guy is a "craigslist criminal", not a mastermind of evil working for another country, but a two bit crook. Who has some wackjob ideology, but no memory to be able to remember where his wallet and keys are at any given time.
The feds needed a wag the dog moment, and so they picked an arrest, created a big story based on some rantings, and went with it, without even TALKING to the arresting officers or sheriff...
You tell me, is that how the media is supposed to work? shouldn't they have run down the story before they printed it? or do they just let the government TELL them what to report?
Yeah.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october132011/fake-terror-gd.php - http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october132011/fake-terror-gd.php
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/10/12/mossad-caught-in-phony-terrorassassination-scam/ - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/10/12/mossad-caught-in-phony-terrorassassination-scam/
Yup, our country was scammed again by ØbamAA++ and Holder... To try and make Israel start a war, on fautly intel, Shocking... oh wait.
No really, this "used car salesmen" was working for Iran, or was it Iraq? Who really cares, we just need to get the focus off the fast and furious subpeona on Holder!
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/national/article_336628b2-33c9-51f4-ad97-cd772ab349f3.html - http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/national/article_336628b2-33c9-51f4-ad97-cd772ab349f3.html ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 8:43am
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All government officials and politicians always consider the peoples safety and well-being a top priority. They are an honest and wholesome people that we need to fully trust with our children's future. All intentions are good. As you were. I have Fast and Furious on DVD and I've watched it like 12-14 times and still can't see what you guys are talking about. If I bust out the tin foil will things become clear? |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 9:52am
Thats the other thread started by the other tin foil hatter.  |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 10:09am
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Yeah, cuz...
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/10/13/the-terrorist-who-couldnt-think-straight/ - http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/10/13/the-terrorist-who-couldnt-think-straight/
Oh wait... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: ParielIsBack
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 11:51am
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The fact that they pulled off a similar hit on a Saudi official in Pakistan makes me suspicious, but I'd still be surprised if it was Quds. They're generally more reliable than this. Could still be some other part of the Iranian government.
------------- BU Engineering 2012 |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 18 October 2011 at 11:56am
| I should start investing in Alcoa. |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 03 November 2011 at 1:37am
| http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/2/inside-the-ring-308062640/?page=all#pagebreak - http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/2/inside-the-ring-308062640/?page=all#pagebreak |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 03 November 2011 at 1:54am
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/uk-military-iran-attack-nuclear%20 - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/uk-military-iran-attack-nuclear All I want for Christmas, is for tomahawk missiles to be sent to Iran. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/31/china_iran_nuclear_relationship - http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/31/china_iran_nuclear_relationship http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67477.html - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67477.html Iran leader accuses U.S. of Terrorism |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 3:25am
| http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057210/Iran-ready-war-Tehran-vows-retaliate-Israel-West-attack-nuclear-plants.html?ito=feeds-newsxml - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057210/Iran-ready-war-Tehran-vows-retaliate-Israel-West-attack-nuclear-plants.html?ito=feeds-newsxml |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 1:08pm
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I am all for wiping Iran off the face of the earth, I really am. I consider them a bunch of radical Islamic thugs looking to turn the entire Middle East into a 14th century Sharia ruled tribal land, plus nuclear missles and a modern military. Really though, I think war with Iran would turn into a hornets nest. We would need to unleash a 21st century Douglas MacArthur on them, which would turn most of the Islamic community (even friendly Muslims stateside) against us, seeing as how Isreal would be our ally. I wouldn't doubt it would become nuclear, seeing as how Iran probably has a few nukes squirelled away and Isreal will destroy everything possible in the middle east before Palestine exists again. I might become one of those paranoid republican hicks if we start war with Iran, because somebody is going to try to bring it stateside. ------------- 
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Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 1:20pm
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I missed the part where Iran had nukes. Citation plox?
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 4:46pm
Which I find absolutely effing hilarious since you're definitely not describing the country that I know. Are their leaders off their rockers? You bet. But the reality of the situation is that Iran is a country predominantly populated with well educated youth who are probably closer to Americans in their dreams, wishes, and desires than just about any European country right now. I'm dead frikken serious about that too. In fact, the only reason that the supreme council and Ahmahdinnerjacket can keep any semblance of control in the nation is the fact that their "elite" forces don't serve the nation, but rather the religious leaders themselves. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 5:17pm
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HV: Officially, Iran does not possess nukes. They do, however, possess most if not all materials to make them and it isn't a huge secret that their gubment has been looking for them for a long time. Tallen: I guess I was a bit harsh since most of Iran's population is literate, but the religious monarchy that rules them is the North Korea of the Middle East in my opinion. I still believe that Ahmahdinnerjacket did not win the last election rightfully. It is no secret that most Muslims dislike Isreal, and a joint US/Isreal attack on Iran will not end well. Yes, I know that Iran is not a monarchy, but it might as well be.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 5:32pm
The general population is very educated. Which is sad they have to endure the torment of their leaders, and opinions from the rest of the world. I thought the virus they planted in the nuclear program, had set them back many many years. We have some of the best "hackers" in the world working for our government. Most of them which were using their skills for illegal means, and once caught by the FBI. Were persuaded to work for the greater "cause" of our nation. To say we can't cripple their nuclear program with cyber attack, is an insult to our technology sector. |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 5:58pm
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To suggest that they'll be stupid enough for the same thing to work twice is a dangerous underestimation of an intelligent enemy. They will have undoubtedly learned from Stuxnet. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 6:09pm
| Welp, time to bust out the tactical nuclear bunker busters. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 7:13pm
| aquavelvadinnerjihad/tin foil |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 7:20pm
Yeah this was one of the most ignorant things I've ever see SSOK post. Having many friends from Iran, theres a few places you can stick it SSOK. |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 7:45pm
C'mon now, you are far too inteligent to resort to such F.....childish antics. ------------- 
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 8:58pm
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I came in here to say "This forum is not your personal blog." Though I'm a little confused why you think Iran is even an appropriate choice for such a "scary possibility." Iran's pretty far down the list of countries we'd need to worry about if another conflict were to break out. Go check out the funding their military gets and then get back to me, and stop trying to sound like an uneducated fear monger. EDIT: Just to add a bit to what Tallen said, the government of Iran does not hate us top to bottom like OUR media would like us to think (And this isn't a political statement, all media sources enjoy fear based reporting). Iran's governmental structure is quite different than just " Ahmadinejad hates America, we're in danger!" The dude has like 10 or 15 people more powerful than him in their government. Only listening to what he says is practically the equivalent of a random country only reporting the things Ron Paul says, and then just assuming we're all a bunch of drug using wackos. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 9:17pm
| I wonder if we could just blow the moon up and straighten things out once and for all. sheeesh |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 10:36pm
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impulse: Stuxnet is something I have never heard about, but after looking it up, it is certainly interesting. Although in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't appear to have done much. Choopie: If you consider the Iranian government a bunch of warm hearted, loveable guys, then by all means you are more ignorant than FE. The Iranian government is up there with China when it comes to oppressing their population and fixing elections(China doesn't have elections, but still). So yeah, I stand by the notion that Iran (as in the government and military) is the North Korea of the Middle East. A group of thugs looking to stir pots and destroy the West. I didn't suggest that we throw all Muslims into concentration camps, I am quite familiar with their way of life and even picked up a few Arabic words and sentences. I am not FE; I dont think my Shiite friends at school are plotting to shoot me with AK47's in a holy war. Anyway, war with Iran would be a complete and total mess for the West. Many Muslims would view it as a holy war with Zionists and Islam. Eville: Tallen posted it first, I copy/pasted it because I am too lazy to look up the correct spelling of Ahckmadinajhad. USAF: I don't really consider Iran a major threat, but I believe that their government is as mentioned before, a group of oppressive pot stirrers. Perhaps I am just insane, but I have read enough articles on my own about threats against Isreal, Jews, the West, etc. Just my opinion though. -------------
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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 10:55pm
The problem is, you mentioned the "Nuke" word. People around these parts aren't too fond of nuking civies. |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 10:59pm
I never suggested using Nuclear bombs on Iran, Isreal would probably do that anyway. Edit: On a side note, on the "Was the United States wrong for nuking Japan?" argument, I always say that I wouldn't be around if the United States fought a conventional war on the Japanese mainland. My grandfather was a few more island hops away in 1945. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 05 November 2011 at 12:05am
| That's not what I said, you can hate on their government all you want, but generalizing their entire country is no different than me saying that everyone in the states are fat, illiterate tea partiers. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 05 November 2011 at 2:56am
| as opposed to fat liberals? |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 05 November 2011 at 4:41am
They (Israel) will use nuclear weapons, against Iran. The tactical nuclear weapons are the only systems that are able to penetrate the deep military bases Iran has. The weapons are low yield, and are designed to not effect the population. But none the less, they will use nuclear weapons to decimate Irans nuclear facilities. Pretty Ironic if you think about it. Why would Israel use the weapons instead of the U.S.? There are many reasons, but the main being. While the U.S. is part of the 5 declared nuclear states, Israel is not. Also including Pakistan and India. These 3 countries were not willing to sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. USAF: How much funding did the "insurgents" get in Iraq and Afghanistan? They seemed to do pretty well and a small budget. I'm sure Iran would put a ok fight early on, only to get stomped in conventional warfare. But the guerrilla warfare in Iran, would make Iraq look like childs play. It would take an astronomical amount of troop numbers to "stabilize" the region. And to think the conflict would only be isolated to Iran, would be a fairy tale. Not only would individuals with strong faith in Islam come to join the fight. But nations. Seeing as China has the most to lose, they would be a key player. And any other country in the middle east who wants to take a shot at the U.S. and Israel. With all the build up to this conflict, it's hard to see how it could be resolved. We have already accused Iran of leading a terrorist operation in the United States. We didn't accuse a Iranian citizen, but Iran itself. An accusation that Iran denied. Which they would have said regardless if they were at fault or not. But seeing how the suspect was already in custody for nearly a month before the news was broke. And the fact that the suspect was a pothead, who was described of not even being capable to carry out something we accused him for. It puts Iran in a better light. And makes their statement slightly more credible than the U.S. And to top it all off the people who were to carry out the operation were supposedly Mexican cartel members. Seems ironic this news story broke around the same time as Eric Holder was in hot water for the Fast and Furious operation. And too top it off with a cherry. Iran says they have proof that the U.S. has been involved in terrorist activities. We will have to see if that pans out to be true, or only to buy Iran time. So the whole reasoning there is even talk about Iran, is about their nuclear program. And how we need to do a pre-preemptive strike. So the longer we wait, the closer they get, to obtaining the "bomb". Israel has already talked about doing it themselves, and seeing as it made news that the U.S. sold Israel bunker busters not too long ago, it seems plausible. If Israel does strike Iran, America will be apart of it. Israel will most definitely get retaliated against, and America being big brother, will be standing behind them. And who knows what will happen. If it will be isolated to the middle east region, or branch out into a world war. Just hope a false flag is not used to start this thing. Which seems like the best way to spark such an event. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 05 November 2011 at 5:47am
Sort of, but under different circumstances. Working predominately in the medical field, I've spent alot of time around alot of people from the middle east. For the most part, they stuck to their morals and values with far more passion than the "Christians" I worked around. I've always liked people from the middle east for their honesty-obviously this is a biased observation, since I'm working off of a very small percentage, but it just seemed like they came at you with a a neutral opinion and formed their ideas as they went along. I'll go one step further and say that most cultures I've experienced through conversations are far more open minded and accepting Americans. In America you're judged more on your appearance than most any other factor...a person with a great personality but a sloppy appearance here is considered "compensating", and a person with great looks and a crap personality is considered to be good people but "with faults like the rest of us". K, obligatory statement of open mindedness out of the way, the view of the muslim world in the middle east isn't entirely unfounded. While countries like Iran have many open minded, fresh faced college students that have the same dreams and ambitions that you or I do, their governments are out of control religious extremists with an itchy trigger finger on a military that could very well spark a world war and cost millions of lives. What I'm saying while we can all try our best to be well versed in as many countries as possible, in many ways the only view we have of a country is the propaganda / PR that their government creates. Right now the US is knee deep in wars that the people don't understand against a ruthless enemy that has centered its propaganda around the dominant religious beliefs of the region, and it's very difficult to separate those things. While it's certainly harsh to suggest bombing them into the stone age, realistically this is something that we're all facing in the Iran / Israel drama. Whether it represents the people or not, the tone of speech from Iran's mouthiest leader is hateful in a way that would make Hitler blush, and we all know where these situations lead. I see what you're saying, and I do agree, I'm just saying that you have to be careful to understand why the conversational tone regarding the middle east is so extreme at the moment. I was going to nitpick the fact that most tea partiers I know are actually fairly intelligent, well spoken peopel that have unfortunately got themselves involved in a movement I'm going to call "Occupy the Republican Party" from here on out, but again, I see what you're saying  Anyway, on to the topic at hand-
This is an entirely accurate representation of the situation at hand, in my opinion. The fact is, Iran is well aware that it wouldn't make two days in an all out confrontation with the US, and probably wouldn't make it too long confronting Israel. What many people fail to realize when listening to the ramblings of Chavez and Ahmadigletdad is that what seems like incoherent hate speech to us is probably fairly effective propaganda to third world countries. I hate to invoke Godwin twice, but look at the support Hitler garnered from Germany in WW II. You take a country in bad enough shape for long enough time, extreme measures sound less and less extreme. Besides, what these countries are proposing isn't as much the xenophobic "we're gonna blow up the world" ideology that we in the US hear, it's more of "the western / Zionist regime is keeping our economies from expanding" and "the US is invading your country". Take for instance Iran's nuclear program. Several nuclear nations threating military strike if your country obtains nuclear power? Nations that have continuing military operations in several regions surrounding you? It's not hard for me to understand the hatred that you see on TV. For my money, the shock that people display when our flag is burned or effigies of our leaders violated on national TV is a glaring double standard when we have people screwing, littering, and loitering on public property as we speak to protest...well, good luck figuring out what they're protesting. So it's not hard to imagine that the real threat from Iran and countries like it isn't from some kind of Red Dawn style invasion, but rather a slow and crafty disruption of diplomatic ties in the region. While the US and Israel could easily control Iran on its own, it would be an overwhelming proposition to contain a civilian uprising. No country on the planet is ready for that, and we've seen time and time again that a big enough uprising in a single country can completely disrupt the economies and governments of the countries surrounding it. This is an incredibly delicate situation for us, especially considering that much of the disdain for the US is forwarded at Israel. Simply striking Iran could spark an uprising that could take us decades or more to fix and cost millions of lives, especially now when the region is already a powder keg of political unrest. -------------
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 05 November 2011 at 11:16am
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 12:48pm
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Choopie: Generalizing their country as what, a large group of people that will be happy to kill westerners if their Government provokes war? Despite how reformed and well educated their population may be, if Ahmadinajahd provokes war with NATO or Isreal, and we drop a Tomahawk on a bunker on Tehran, I doubt these nice friendly Iranians will still be giving out hugs. By no means am I suggesting that Muslims are bad people, but most of my friends admire Iran deeply and despise Isreal. A lot of people are going to be quite angry at NATO for crushing Iran's military. -------------
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 3:59pm
How will Ahmadinijahd provoke war? By saying stupid things in the media? Also, concerning the "should we have nuked Japan" argument: has anyone ever seen the proposed offensive before we went through with the nukes? It was on Cracked the other day... We would have lost up to 800,000 men, combined with 900,000 to 3.2 MILLION more wounded. Good bye baby boomers. Google "Operation Downfall" if you'd rather avoid Cracked. Regardless, less people died in the end, so in retrospect? Yes, we should have nuked them. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 4:35pm
------------- 
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 5:33pm
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 6:18pm
Unfortunately, I belive that Impulse has some stable grounding in some of his ideas.
I'm not going to do the whole justifying my statement with open minded approval of other relgions, I did that earlier in this thread, so refer to my previous post. But as I mentioned earlier, I do believe that war with Iran could have lots of nasy little public relations implications. I think that it's quite ambitious to declare a war with Iran would certainly lead to World War III, and even more far fetched to believe that China would jump in, but I also think it's entirely too optimistic to think that we would just walk in as we did with Iraq and the people would suddenly jump up and follow America to a new, more democratic government. People have been coming in from other countries to help stop Americans in Iraq, maybe not en mass, but there have been issues, and Iran is a much more vocal pot stirrer than Saddam could have even dreamed to be. I do believe a war with Iran would spark a much wider conflict, and I also belive this is why we haven't attacked them. The same goes for North Korea. A strike on North Korea would almost certainly entail more public relations footwork than the trouble they're actually causing.
This is where you have to be careful in assuming that the US's diplomatic relations with other countries is a glass house. The fact is that the general public knows exactly what they're allowed to know for a variety of reasons. While the US has been open that the war in Iraq was based on botched intel, that's a rare moment of honesty in a national history of crazy, classified global discourse. As far as I'm concerned, if we or Israel hit Iran, it's because there was an immediate threat, but until that day, any speculation is just that. As it stands, neither country has made a move, and I think that, at the moment, odds are against that happening.
I don't think it's lumping the US vs the entire Middle East, but the anti-American / anti-Zionist rhetoric is quite strong across many countries there. I'd be willing to say it's stronger across more countries there than anywhere else in the world, and frankly this adds an element of complication to any conflict we engage in there. I think it's important to separate elements in this discussion. You have to separate the human element from the military element. As a country, the vast majority of us will never fight / kill a middle eastern person. So it's for the best that we as a nation view Islam in the same light as Christianity-there are the good, and there are the bad. End of story. But from a national defense standpoint, Islam is certainly being exploited very successfully in the middle east, and the anti-American sentiment there is pretty scary stuff. It would be reckless not to look at radical Islam as a threat, and to be honest I'm not sure that radical Islam jumps up and down pointing at itself in an effort to not taint normal Islam. I'm no expert on the religion, any more than I am any non-Christian religion, therefore I don't make judgements about the people. I've known some very good, decent Muslim people, just as I said earlier. But our major threats and conflicts right now are being driven by Islam, and that's an important idea to keep in mind. While you can't be racist or xenophobic about it, there's nothing wrong with implicating the obvious in these discussions. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 7:00pm
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Our government is worried about "radical" Christians also. These are
the people who can see through the BS, and are preparing. Knowing damn
well not to rely on anyone but themselves.
Dependence upon a government, is power. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 7:37pm
The problem with statements like this is that, while wonderfully cryptic and ominous, they make no sense. What people see through the BS? What is the BS covering up? How are these people preparing, and what are they preparing for?
I'm assuming you mean power to the government. But in what way is anyone depending on the government? If this is a reference to a welfare state, of course you're right. If you're referencing relying on the government to defend you / handle diplomatic relations, that's what it's there for. You can't expect full transparency in the government. They can't publish a newspaper once a week outlining every military strategy, plan, and intention. Radical religion of any type is an issue. If you don't think the government is going to keep an eye on aryan militias and good ol boy anti-government types, you're crazy. They're just as much a threat as radical Islam. I live in the south. I remember the 90's, post Bush Sr's New World Order speech, post brady bill and AWB, I was raised in a military home where weapons were to be stockpiled in anticipation of the gubment coming to get them. I'm surrounded by people stockpiling guns and psych meds in the same drawers. So yes, I do know all about radical Christianity. I don't find it any less scary. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 8:10pm
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"Radical" Christians. Who are stockpiling food and gold, because they know better than what is being fed by mainstream media. "Radical" Christians who are moving to rural parts of the country away from nuclear power plants, and hydro fracking. "Radical" Christians who are raising their own food, in preparation of the food crisis soon upon us. I'm not just saying that Christians are the only people who are doing this. But people who have this kind of forethought are labeled radical or potential domestic terrorist. In an age where someone can be thrown in a jail cell indefinitely, without due process(thanks obama) should be great alarm to anyone looking out for themselves. A "stockpile" of ammo (sadly this could be a few bricks of 22lr), food prepping, and buying gold, could get one labeled a "domestic terrorist". The mere fact that people grossly mismanage their money on perishable foods, that are only cheap, due to the subsidies from the government. People who would have to stop by a FEMA camp, because they only had 3 days worth of nonperishable foods. These are people who are dependent. Before people start spouting off these people are poor and can't afford to prepare. Save it. Food stamps are meant to buy unprepared food. So instead of blowing all your money on frozen pizza, and trash filled with high fructose corn syrup; buy some beans and rice. Side rant ended: So, what happens when Israel strikes the nuclear facilities. Specifically the nuclear materials in the atmosphere. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 9:06pm
There's meat to your argument for sure, but I think that you run the risk of overstating it. While yes, the patriot act does allow stockpiling to qualify for the label of domestic terrorist, the idea that the government is going after gold buyers and people raising on their own food (some call them farmers) is too much to swallow. The gold argument is a whole nuther beast, and I won't go into it here at the risk of derailing the thread. I think that the idea of gold being the best investment is arguable though.
The trouble is, those of us in college and on limited budgets have to eat the beans and rice. It's not the content of the food that keeps us from stockpiling it, it's the fact that we have just enough money to eat on and none to save with. So your rant on "these people" is a little short sighted man. Look, there's virtue in saving regardless of the intent. A penny saved and whatnot. I think a supply of food can never hurt; you could lose your job, you could end up with a refrigerator gone bad, so on and so forth. I think that the general idea is that alot of middle Americans have children, bills, and a life, and can't afford to build bomb shelters and stockpile goods for Armageddon. Plus, there are many people that choose to use their money to enjoy life at the present and not worry about far fetched conspiracy theories. I had a recent bout with some serious anxiety attacks about some seriously far fetched but totally viable medical issues, and finally I read a quote that helped me a ton-"You can either live your life and enjoy it for today, and spend the rest of it stressing about a tomorrow that may never come." Totally sound advice. As long as I've been alive I've known people who were stockpiling for a catastrophe, mocking those around them for buying X-Box games or other play things, imagining themselves in a post apocalyptic society where they were the only ones with access to food and water. If that keeps a person from freaking out, more power to them, but to expect that from everyone else or to lift those people up on a pedestal is crazy.
Too many assumptions there for anyone to answer that. I'm no engineer / scientist, but assuming A:) Israel hits Iran with nukes (pretty unlikely, but I'll bite) as a preemptive strike, and B:) they hit a developing nuclear reactor, I guess you'll have to look to those more adept in this subject for an answer. I don't think it involves a nuclear winter by any stretch of the imagination, maybe a few hotspots on Iranian soil, but again, I have no idea. Nuclear weapons have been tested since their invention around the world, albeit at partial payload, and we're all still alive and eating home grown food. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 10:40pm
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Stocking up on non perishable foods is a good idea all around. Keep rotatating stock so nothing goes bad. The price of food will only go up. Seeing that food is actually the cheapest it has ever been, pretty much ever. It's safe too assume it won't always be that way. A food shortage is on it's way. And the dollar doesn't look to be getting any better, soon. If you're a broke college student, I know exactly how you feel. I'm in the same boat. But I also spend my money wisely, very rarely eating out, movies etc. Selling my x-box's and other toys to invest the money in precious metals etc. To use the argument you need money to enjoy life, is wrong. There are plenty of free things to do, having company or not. "But it's so depressing planning for the end of the world." Personally I think of it as an investment. Things are only going to go up in price, while the value of the dollar goes down. It gives me comfort to know I'm a little prepared, in case rough times are ahead. If I was to die tomorrow, I know there would be no regrets. I have made amends, and have lived a great life. Serenity is not freedom from the storm, but peace amid it. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 06 November 2011 at 11:04pm
I never said that. My point was that if you have very few things that give you enjoyment in life, and on our budget we're not exactly taking supermodels to the bahamas, in my opinion it's foolish to sacrifice those things to stock up for an event that may or may not happen. It comes down to this-
For some people, stockpiling helps them sleep at night. That's fine. I'm certainly not arguing against living a thrifty lifestyle and saving, I'm simply saying that it's a "to each his own" type situation. But alot of stockpilers (not you necessarily, I really don't know you that well and wouldn't make this assumption from your arguments) feel that it's not only a peace of mind issue, it's a concrete necessesity that is beyond argument. This is where I find fault-none of us know the future. The weather is infinitely more predictable than the economy, and even that is a what if situation.
But there's no storm, and not even the forecast of bad weather. Even if the economy looks dark at the moment, we have no idea where it's going to go. And assuming that you're right, and we're on the verge of a diasaster, where will that diasaster lead? What will the diasaster be? Will it be nuclear war, an economic breakdown? Wil gold matter if everyone is looting for food? I think it's like Harold Camping. If he predicts the rapture is going to happen every day, according to Christianity he may very well be right at some point. People have been predicting diasaster situations of various kinds and stockpiling since the 50's. It was a second depression, it was communism, it was terrorism, it was the government, but they haven't been right yet. So if it helped nullify some fears of theirs, more power to them. But to most of us, we live day to day. We look forward to our favorite game / movie coming out, we enjoy going out and having fun with members of te opposite (or same, to each his own) sex, and we work to achieve these dreams. So to us, what is the point of living if it's just you, a box of beans, and some precious metals? I'm not condescending to you. I'm someone that deals with (literally) crippling anxiety disorder, something that's manifesting itself as I type this thread, I'm completely open to things like this. Sometimes I have to do crazy things to calm irrational fears, particularly when I'm dealing with unemployment. I don't care if people find these things unreasonable, because in the end if googling symptoms of insanely rare diseases to assure myself I don't have them puts me to sleep, screw their opinions I'm tired. I know it'll pass, so I don't care. This is how I view preparing for diasasters. So if stockpiling for an event that isn't on the radar at the moment helps you, more power to you. Just understand that to many of us, it's just not feasible. And again, what you're doing is completey smart and reasonable, just maybe not for the reasons that you're doing it. If you have the money, and you have the patience, go for it. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 9:03pm
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When I say precious metals I don't mean gold and silver. If things keep going south, there will be a day man throws gold and silver into the streets. For it will not solve their hunger problem. I use to be a hypochondriac, and WebMD was my worst enemy. The promises have came true for me. " We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.That feeling of uselessness and self pity will disappear.We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.Self-seeking will slip away.Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us." |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 9:04pm
| http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15617657 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15617657 |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 10:45pm
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 11:33pm
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Good analogy, haven't heard that one before.... Any who kind of interesting video I found. If you have time to kill, take a look at it. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 11:38pm
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I find this subject very interesting. What in "reality" do you guys think will happen when the results are posted that Iran is trying to develop nukes?  |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 3:06am
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 3:37am
Nothing. I don't remember who it was, but it seems to me a while back a book was published by a former Israeli intelligence officer that claims several of the scientists in Iran's nuke program were actually Mossad. I don't know specifically how credible that is, but I can pretty much guarantee they know at least a little more than we do what's going on in Iran. In fact, it's also been stated (again, don't feel like backing this up, but it's out there) that the US relies on Israeli intelligence for alot of our Middle East operations. My point is, there aren't any surprises here in store for Israel. This is building up a diplomatic case good cop (US) bad cop (Israel) style in my opinion. As far as Russia's statements, the whole Israel threatens Iran and Russia says "BAD IDEA YO" thing has been played out so many times it's not even funny. I haven't read an awful lot in this situation that's remotely new. As far as I'm concerned, it becomes an operation when planes are hitting Iran. Until (or if) that happens, this is all diplomatic shouting matches. Something that bothers me is that there's no room for movement when it comes to opinions on Israel. It's turned into the typical right vs left issue where there are only two sides that are allowed to speak. So we hear comments like the ones that made the cover of Drudge today where Sarkozy and Obama talk poo about the Israeli PM and the reactions are either "OMG CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE JEWS" or "OMG GUD THE JEWS ARE TROUBLE". But upon reading a reader's comment, I looked up Netenyahu's approval rating...and even the Israeli's go in and out of supporting him. But it all comes down to the idea that part of America thinks that if we don't support Israel God will destroy us, and the other part thinks that we're blindly supporting Israel for that reason. The fact is that Israel and Iran have been mouthing each other like angry high schoolers for years now, and it just strikes me as oddly immature. Before anyone flames me with links to the history of Israeli foreign relations, this is an incredibly casual observation. At some point these countries are like those two people on FB you eventually defriend because they won't shut up at each other. Of course, there are lives at stake, but again, casual observation. -------------
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 1:30pm
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In the event these Arab revolutions actually produce functional democracies, Israel will become less relevant from a US standpoint. We needed them as allies against the Soviets, we liked having them as friends when the region was mostly dictatorships, and we've had plenty of common enemies. It's getting to a point where we alienate more potential allies by automatically supporting everything Israel does. Since Iran's green movement seems to have stalled, I'm guessing that the nuclear findings are going to be used to continue to squeeze the regime and hopefully undermine it. Using military force would most likely not have the effects we want. Even the Bin Laden raid has only made Pakistan more cagey and paranoid. A joint SOF and air campaign to break their nuclear program is really the only viable military option unless we get very creative again. I do think we're on our way towards some sort of diplomatic showdown considering the type of news/propaganda that's coming up, and considering what my more militant Jewish and Christian friends are sharing on FB, the hawks are very interested in this. Russia and China are pretty much going to always drag their feet on anything the Western powers want. It give the unaligned nations someone else to turn to , and the geopolitical status quo works for Russia and China. Besides, as long as we don't have diplomatic relations with Iran, they don't have to compete with us as much. I take anything those countries say with a grain of salt. Our relationship w/ Israel is confounding, and almost impossible to have a discussion about in some circles. It's basically an apartheid state based on racial and religious affiliation, highly militarized, and probably an undeclared nuclear power, and a substantial one at that, and we're friends with it. Very rarely have I ever been able to have an intelligent discussion about Israel without it turning into a total mess. People tend to assume that the Israeli State=all Jews, so being critical of it makes you an anti-Semite, or that the US must support Israel or god will punish us with (whatever most recent disaster has been) or not let us all go to heaven, and Israel is where Jesus will return to and where the end of days will start. These people are not reasonable, and unfortunately they drive a lot of the dialogue. The religious fanatics on the Muslim end of the spectrum are equally frightening. It's a crap situation overall, but the "good-cop, bad-cop" analogy works when discussing the US and Israel in the region. We need to be more publicly critical and privately supportive of Israel, and our respective citizens need to be aware of this necessity instead of freaking out every time Netennyahu and Obama don't start making out every time they meet. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 6:48pm
Rednekk, I believe you're spot on in your analogy.
This is what frustrates me so much. You have to dig through ten miles of rhetoric to get to the meat of the situation, and then you're so confused because the meat has never even been discussed at length. There are so few honest discussions about the US / Isreal / Iran diplomatic crisis that I'm not sure most of us even understand it, at least to the extent we understand the rest of the world. The worst part is that we have to spend so much time wrapped up in these Middle Eastern affairs that it seems like the rest of the world is just a footnote on the nightly news. This is how frighteningly out of touch the US / the US media is with foreign affairs. It's bothered me for years.
While I really, really hope this is the case, I don't see it happening. There's just too much oppurtunity for extremist groups to come in and fill the void created by the former governments. I really think that the whole Arab spring event is going to worsen rather than strengthen US / Israeli relations with the nations that it's affecting. -------------
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 9:07pm
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-whiteboard-video-why-leftists-communists-anti-semites-support-occupy-wall-st/ - This is pretty much what my Jewish friends think |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 4:33am
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059462/UN-report-Iran-IS-trying-build-nuclear-bomb-warns-William-Hague.html - So there's this. Now, the report is pretty damning to Iran's shrug and innocent smile maneuver. Pretty much it takes them straight from little orphan annie to dennis the mennis on the evil scale. However, before you stock up on dubya dubya tree ammo, a few things about the article itself- It goes from-
to
The keywords to describe this article's predictions are "maybe" and "anonymous sources." It could very well be true, but seems a little sensational to be honest. Anyway, I don't really see any news here. If Israel was waiting on confirmation to have more diplomatic support in the international community, then I guess she has her proof. As far as the repot itself, I don't think anyone is surprised by anything it says. I would imagine that both the US and Israel have had an attack plan on the reserve for years now. As someone already said, if it's going to happen, it needs to be a combined effort, not a lone wolf Israeli / US attack. I think that the diplomatic implications of such an effort would be pretty rough for both parties, and could certainly damper already strained relations in the east. This brings up an interesting test for the US, however. We moved in on Iraq with an exaggerated sense of urgency and unwilling to wait for full support from the international community, and in retrospect the threat was less clear than it was compltely soaked in vaseline and dropped in the dirt a couple of times. Here, however, we have a very real report of a country that has, on multiple occasions, spoke of wiping a diplomatic ally off the face of the planet, denies the holocaust, and whose leader believes he's going to spark the big war that brings about Islamic prophecy making nice progress towards developing a nuclear weapon. It's as if Timothy McVeigh had suddenly aquired a fleet of U-Hauls and several dumptrucks of fertilizer, then proceeded to laugh maniacally outside of a daycare, yet we ignored him and arrested Paul Reuben for "maybe smuggling sex toys loaded with dirty bombs, probably" Of course, the American media suffers from severe onset of short term memory loss, so who knows if this will really be an issue. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 2:28pm
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Will they just strike the bunkers with missises. And if so, do we have conventional bunker busters that can penetrate those bunkers? Will tactical nukes be needed to get such a job done? Any chance of boots on the ground other than SF? |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 4:20pm
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If there is war with Iran, I sure hope it is a lone Isreali attempt or a full NATO seige. 'Cause I wouldn't want to be involved in a political conventional war with Iran. -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 4:31pm
" Iran's pretty far down the list of countries we'd need to worry about if another conflict were to break out. Go check out the funding their military gets and then get back to me, and stop trying to sound like an uneducated fear monger. " ~ USAFpilot |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 7:40pm
Absolutely no way to predict that man. Obviously the ideal plan here would be something like the Israeli strike that took out Saddam's facilities way back when, a simple fly through and "whoops y we no have reactors any more". But would it be that simple with Iran? I very much doubt it, though I could be wrong. An issue that faces the US with Iran is minimizing casualties in a full on strike. It's much easier to let Israel surgically nail their facilities than it is to pound the cities into oblivion in the event of a full invasion. So hypothetically speaking, if Iran tried to counterattack Israel, there's a good chance troops would hit the ground in my opinion. BUT I'm incredibly uninformed to that point, I know a little about our diplomatic history (or lack thereof) with Iran, but know very little about their terrain and troop capabilities. -------------
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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 7:49pm
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 10 November 2011 at 7:57pm
If I am an uneducated fear monger, then what are you? -------------
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