See Ya SOPA!!!!!
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=189817
Printed Date: 21 December 2025 at 10:37am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: See Ya SOPA!!!!!
Posted By: tallen702
Subject: See Ya SOPA!!!!!
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:19pm
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/01/16/obama-says-so-long-sopa-killing-controversial-internet-piracy-legislation/" rel="nofollow - It's dead! NB4 FE's rant about how it's a communist move to continue to redistribute wealth by propagating piracy of movies and songs online. I'm glad he at least stood up to this. Now if only he'd had some balls on the Defense Authorization Bill.... |
Replies:
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:24pm
| About time for it to die. |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 11:08pm
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He also said he would not sign NDAA. That was a lie, just like this. ” I'm sorry for signing off on sopa, but I promise my administration won't enforce it” |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 11:52pm
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First of all, I'm glad to see that Obama doesn't support it, though as Impulse said I wouldn't call it DOA just yet. Saying and doing are different things, especially in this administration. That said, I can't help but think that the internet's outrage over this bill would be better projected at actually stopping piracy. I wonder how many of those voicing their opposition at this bill spend half their day at the Pirate Bay? Not that I'm saying I never have made nor will again make use of "less than legal" torrents, but I recognize that the entertainment industry views piracy as a huge problem, and frankly the sheer numbers involved in online theft are staggering. I don't really see it as a problem the government can get deeply involved in without stepping on some individual liberties, but the online community in general needs to realize that as long as piracy is openly accepted among their ranks, companies are going to be militant about protecting their interests. TL;DR this isn't a victory or even a battle won for the internet community. Until developers get a better hold on software protection this is going to come up every year in some shape, form, or fashion. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 2:30am
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True, but there are two things that spring to mind. Firstly, this is a USA only law. Good luck enforcing it on the DRC or wherever decides there is money in sever farms. Secondly, the amount of money that the entertainment industry makes. If they reduced the price of things by 90% and increased the lead time between movie box office and DVD release they'd kill piracy almost dead. You wouldn't need to make more laws about it. KBK ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 3:52am
| This is far from over. They tried to shove something ridiculous through, now the next measure will seem more reasonable in comparison. |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 5:34am
I dunno choop. the RIAA and MPAA have always been ones to use a sledgehammer when a tack-hammer would do. Subtlety and compromise aren't exactly their strong suits. I agree that it isn't over, but I don't think you'll see anything that doesn't bring about just as much ire and outrage as SOPA did. |
choopie911 wrote:Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 7:02am
| Next up is PIPA. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 10:10am
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Something will eventually have to be done to better enforce copyright protection online. SOPA just wasn't it. It had the right motivation, but poor execution, very similar to the Arizona immigration bill.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 10:17am
Thus is the problem surrounding the dislike of SOPA: While there are some people who do legitimately dislike the idea of DRM and think that the issue with SOPA was that it was misguided legislative language, they appear to be the minority. The majority of dislike comes from those who want to get stuff without paying for it. And, unless that changes, the RIAA will still have the legislative high ground. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 11:33am
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Much like having the government keeping track of my whereabouts, because I am not doing anything illegal, I don't really have any issue with anti piracy legislation because I don't steal or use stolen software. i used to work with a guy that was constantly trying to offer me pirated software. He couldn't understand why I always refused it. For some reason, he couldn't wrap his head around the idea that it was stealing. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 11:56am
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That's the wrong attitude to take. Is that why you think we are all against it? Because we pirate? Do you think Wikipedia pirates music?
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Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 12:09pm
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I am really not that well informed on this subject TBH. However, I can't grasp why someone would be against search engines from directing people to sites that are know to offer pirated software. It may be another topic, but I don't think I have ever known an IT person that didnt have his/her fair share of copied/pirated software. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 12:19pm
Not speaking about you directly, but I do suspect the prime motivation for individuals (Read, not corporate interests like Google, Microsoft and Wiki) disliking SOPA was the desire to continue getting things for free. That doesn't make SOPA good, in the least, but it's an unfortunate side effect.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 12:26pm
Because for most companies who run search engines, the listings are done through robots (Crawler scripts, specifically) and an algorithm that determines how many times a site is linked to by a third party site (Please correct me if I'm wrong, more tech-oriented people). While yes, in an ideal world, it would be nice if sites like Google could deter people from going to pirating-based sites, the way the legislation is set up now, Google could face confiscation if one of their robots does the linking/listing. Not only that, but the far-reaching language of the legislation indicates that any copyright violation on any site is grounds for violation of SOPA and prosecution. The intentions are good, it was just far too poorly written and under-defined. It's too big to properly enforce as is, and would lead to discriminatory enforcement more likely than not. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 12:31pm
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^^^ What Whale said. I have never pirated anything in my life. My major issues with SOPA was that it, in my understanding, made third parties (such as Google and Yahoo) responsible for enforcing copywrite laws with punishments for failure. ------------- 
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 1:57pm
I know this has already been addressed by Whale and Mack, but just to add-when I say the Internet community, there's no "we" or "them" you can make blanket statements about. There are elderly grandmothers and sick pedos browsing together at any given time, so obviously there's no way to classify the Interwebz with a generalization. But I do feel that there has been universal condemnation towards SOPA from a large majority of internet bloggers / networking sites to the point that even my non-techie FB friends have been posting death and doom statuses regarding its existence. Yet I've read very, very little of this outrage that pinned the blame where the blame is due-the pirates themselves. I don't see piracy as a grey area. It's not like immigration or drug use where there's difficulty making a judgement on the violators...this is direct violation of those lovely EULA's we all agree to, and it's very much illegal. It's also highly accessible and almost impossible to punish with any sense of regularity. That poses a gaping hole in the law that will most certainly be filled before all is said and done. Any efforts to stop that from happening are just temporary setbacks. This is not only far from over, in my opinion it's basically set in stone that we will see some type of internet censorship, and probably soon at that. I don't support piracy, though as I said earlier I'm not going to pass any judgement on people who use it. I don't believe that major damage is done in certain industries (the gaming industry, for example, tends to sensationalize the amount of money being lost to piracy, but that's another debate in all), but I think that any time the law is being violated as open as it is with piracy there's going to be a fix at some point. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 3:31pm
And that is the root of the problem. People who are happily uninformed making decisions that affect the world. PIPA is up next and is still a problem. http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/technical-examination-of-sopa-and.html" rel="nofollow - More info |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 3:40pm
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Am I the only person who keeps thinking it says SOFA? ------------- 
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 4:42pm
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I personally don't even understand why people are trying to push SOPA and PIPA through other than ignorance and an attempt to subvert the law for their own monetary gain. Both are so horribly written and open ended that they give the Justice Department and individual groups like the MPAA and RIAA way too much sway over how things operate. The OPEN-Act is the much better written, and better defined bill which protects third parties and puts the power in the hands of the ITC where it belongs. PIPA is impossible to enforce due to the DNS issues it presents. SOPA was an attempt by the RIAA and MPAA to be able to sue some people that actually HAVE money (ie Google, Yahoo, et al). I honestly think piracy would be less rife if the motion picture industry would put out a quality product for the price they're asking. Want people to shell out the money to see something in theaters? Make it worth seeing in theaters and quit re-hashing old movies. Want to stop piracy after something's out of the theaters? Release the DVD and digital versions within a week or two of the movie going out of theaters, not months and months afterwards. Also, quit forcing rental companies like blockbuster, redbox, and netflix to wait over a month after the retail release of the dvd to offer it for rent. Same goes for music. |
Posted By: Shub
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 10:01pm
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As Chewp said, PIPA is the Senate's bill, and if it were a high school, the Senate's PIPA would get an "F" for cheating on the House's SOPA, they are that similar. Not to mention there's a third proposed bill, OPEN which I haven't read at all yet. |
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 11:45pm
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There are about to some big blackouts online. Wikipedia is less than an hour away from an English version 24 hour blackout. Should be interesting to see the reaction of this (not to mention all the people relying on wikipedia for homework and have no idea what is happening). |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 12:16am
I guess Tallen won't be posting here for a bit.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 12:34am
Zing! |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 5:45am
Booooooo!!!!!  I'll have you know that I rely on wikipedia very rarely. I can't remember what color pants I'm wearing from one day to the next, but if it's something esoteric, it's stuck in my head like it's welded to it. Some people say it's a result of ADD without the hyperactivity. I just call it "Jeopardy Brain." |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 9:38am
Serves them right for using Wikipedia for homework. (it's like using an encyclopedia) Related:
http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20120118/NEWS01/201180305/1002/rss" rel="nofollow - Link to article entitled Lawmakers re-examine Internet privacy bill. (Bolding added by me.)
Impulse may have called it. -------------
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 9:39am
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I use pirated software every once in a while. I'm more likely to use something freeware or something I'll pay for. My OS's are all legit. My major programs are all either legit or free. But I have used a pirated copy of like, Photoshop. Why? Because I don't need a R1400 copy of a program I'll use once every 5 months. Hell I mostly used it for resizing and I now own Fast Image Resizer. But that isn't the problem. The problem about SOPA isn't that. It's this.  That's a copy righted picture. Tippmann is now in breech of SOPA unless they take it down. THAT's the problem. ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 9:57am
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^^^ Exactly. It holds third parties responsible for the actions of others that they cannot easily control and may not even be aware of.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 9:58am
DING DING DING!!!! We have a winnar! Piracy is bad, m'kay? You don't need to pirate a copy of photoshop or MS works when Open Office and GIMP are available. The big problem is the lack of due process and trying to force companies to police copyright infringement instead of putting it in the hands of the ITC. Also, fair use is just that, FAIR. Now, if Kayback was putting that image on a backpack, coffee mug, notebook, personal massager, etc. Then yes, he'd be in violation of copyright laws and SHOULD be punished. But putting images like that on a website is considered fair use, which is why he isn't in violation. The reality is that SOPA/PIPA would do away with fair use online. It's complete BS. |
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 9:58am
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I believe that its the movie and music industries that are losing ground with new technologies in the digital age. It wouldn't surprise me that movie theatres will be out of business in 10 years and the movie industry knows this so they are trying to gain a foothold to hold on to their outdated methods. It's the same with the music industry too, people are buying less and less cd's and are buying more and more digital. They think they can charge the same price as a cd or dvd, online, when in reality it does not cost the same to put the same files online. My point is if they had more reasonable prices online, people (such as those that pirate) would be way more willing to pay for their software. I believe that this is one of the most reasonable ways to take a large hit at pirating. Take photoshop for example, many more people would buy instead of pirate if it weren't $600+. |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 10:01am
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^^^ The one remaining movie theater in my town deserves to be out of business. Crappy service, surly teenage staff that would rather flirt with each other than do their jobs, no adult supervision and theaters that should be cordoned off as environmental hazards. Oh and lets not forget poor equipment and operations. Being unable to show the last ten minutes of a movie and initially trying to refuse a refund based on "you saw most of it" which changed 20 minutes later to "we're working on it and it should be fixed anytime" which then changed to "I don't like your tone or language and I will call the police."* Which eventually changed to "Here's your refund sir, I'm so sorry" after I explained the concept of providing a service for a fee required that the service actually be properly completed. *For the record, I raised my voice but did not shout and the worst thing I called the manager was "Dumbass" as in "listen closely dumbass while I explain to you why your answer is not acceptable." Edited Addition: No, I haven't been back since this incident over three years ago. My theory is that the movies will eventually come out in a format that allows me to watch them in the comfort of my home where I don't stick to either the floor or the seat and if I do die before they come out I won't care . . . because I will be dead. (Hey, I'm old . . . it's a valid consideration.) -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 10:58am
Switch out the terminology for tech of the past and it still rings true. The music and movie industries are dinosaurs who have not chosen wisely when it comes to competing in the modern climate. They never have, and sadly, won't ever learn. See my rant on the bottom of page 1 of this thread. |
Posted By: bravecoward
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 11:23am
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For all the programs you get in the Adobe suite it is easily worth as much it is. ------------- 
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 11:56am
GIMP is free. Primo PDF is free. Inkspace is free. Scribus is free. Nvu is free. etc. etc. etc. There are open source alternatives to Adobe CS for just about anyone other than the guys who absolutely need every last little function out of CS, and those people are rare. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 12:12pm
Also a really entertaining children's cartoon show. I know this has been expressed multiple times in this thread, but I'll reiterate: If you want to convince software companies to not charge so much, support and use freeware alternatives. Download them, share them, donate money to their producers. Not liking the outdated distribution methods of various media, be it music, movies, software, etc., is not justification for copyright infringement or theft -- and I'm saying that as someone who has pirated stuff before. |
Posted By: High Voltage
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 12:17pm
I hope you're joking, I really do. The only way that crap is worth the price tag is when someone else pays for you. Infographic for those who still do not understand these bills. Also, are we enjoying the blackout today? http://americancensorship.org/" rel="nofollow">  -------------
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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 12:30pm
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Sharing is not copyright infringement. Also, using alternative freeware starves the music/film industry even more - which makes them resort to moves like that they are making now with SOPA and PIPA. Essentially, if you don't buy their crap, they will destroy the free market and force you to buy their crap. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 12:44pm
Sharing -can be- copyright infringement. Let's examine the definition provided by the U.S. Copyright Office: "As a general matter, copyright infringement occurs when a copyrighted work is reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of the copyright owner."
This is incorrect. The (misguided) attempt with SOPA is to crack down on copyright infringement and theft. Freeware is not copyright infringement, nor is it theft (Unless code is specifically stolen). There have been "look and feel" lawsuits before, and they typically don't go very far.
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 1:25pm
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I don't use Photoshop any more. Like I said I found a freeware program that does what I wanted (resizing my 14meg RAW images into JPG's of around 200k) for free. It's like 25k or something stupid. I pay for software I think deserves to be bought. One thing I have paid for to get around DNS blocking was a VPN. It cost me like %45 a year, but I could access all the restricted sites in the Middle East. KBK ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 11:08pm
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Jon Stewart's bit was great. -------------
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 19 January 2012 at 3:45pm
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This just in. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/technology/indictment-charges-megaupload-site-with-piracy.html ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |
Posted By: GroupB
Date Posted: 19 January 2012 at 3:58pm
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Infographics are sooooooo annoying. -------------
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Posted By: Ceesman762
Date Posted: 19 January 2012 at 4:15pm
This. Unfortunately you must deal with them sometimes to get the story. The same story is running on Fox, ABC, and nearly every board on 4chan has some one posting on this. The /k/ommandos and /b/tards are p.o.'d. ------------- Innocence proves nothing FUAC!!!!! |