Attn: Kayback
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=190495
Printed Date: 23 May 2026 at 8:06am
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Topic: Attn: Kayback
Posted By: brihard
Subject: Attn: Kayback
Date Posted: 16 August 2012 at 10:14pm
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Marikana Platinum Mine. All I know i what I saw on Al-Jazeera and Liveleak, and I'm trying not to go off in rage prematurely on this one. Got any of a more local take on what exactly the hell went down here? Something to put this in context and explain? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, you're just my 'go to guy' for anything South Africa. For the rest of you- what I refer to is what appears to be police officers in S.A. firing some couple hundred rounds into a strike/protest at a mine. Looks like a dozen + dead, all of it on camera. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Replies:
Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 12:56am
| Don't leave out that the miners were running at them with weapons. Just saying. |
Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 1:00am
| yeah, the video off a news outlet showed a group of miners charging with machetes. |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 4:17am
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Yeah it is pretty bad. My support is for the cops. Basically it is a complete pooch screw. Even with gold and platinum at almost all time highs the operating costs for mines is also through the roof , mostly because of serious electricity price increases in the last couple of years. We have a generating shortfall add no new power stations were built by the new government so we went from a surplus of cheap energy to short fall and a mad scramble to recover. This means to stay profitable mines need to keep costs down. South Africa had always had cheap labour, and the conditions in our mines is pretty good but many of the workers are migrant workers who leave their families for extended periods . So the working conditions aren't too bad but the living conditions aren't great. The blasters and such get fairly good compensation for their specialty skills but the rock face workers ate paid close to minimum wage. because they see this as unfair the rock face workers are demanding a 300% increase on their wages which is moronic. No mine will stay in business with that. One of our major unions NUMSA , national union mine workers of south Africa don't wasn't to push for that as it is unrealistic. A new union, I forget the name, had started saying it will get the workers that raise, so members are leaving NUMSA or the new union, and thus the seeds are sown. ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 4:42am
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The new union called a Wild cat strike a couple of days ago. The strike was declared illegal and NUMSA tried to get involved. There was a brief disagreement between the unions and it was going to turn ugly so the police were called in. During the violence between the unions two police men were attacked with knives and machetes and killed. Two mine security guards were also killed as were 3 miners and 4 bystanders. That's when reinforcements were a sent in, about two days ago. The police spent yesterday trying to disperse the crowd and contain it, if you understand what I mean. The crowd was brandishing weapons in the form of traditional weapons and firearms. Brandishing firearms is illegal, as is taking them to gatherings of people (I forget the numbers 300 + iirc). The decision was made to disarm them as there had been deaths already. The cops were trying to set up razor wire barricades to keep the rioters away from each other when they advanced on the cops. They ignored orders to disperse, disarm or stop. Less than lethal stun grenades and rubber bullets were used, to no effect. As the 4000 strong armed mob closed in on the 400 police they switched to legal force. Shots were fired at the cops but I do not know when on the timeline. After the shooting some weapons were recovered, including the service pistol of one of the two murdered cops. There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth but I think the cops acted correctly ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 4:58am
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It is a whole social economic political mash up where cops were brought in to contain the violence, which they did when confronted my overwhelming force. They could not withdraw as that would have left innocents and other antagonists at risk and risk the rule of law. Sent from my crappy touch screen phone. ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 1:21pm
Sounds like that saying of yours..."Play stupid games win stupid prizes". ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Kayback wrote:Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 2:32pm
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all you had to say was... unions... ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 2:40pm
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Really, FE? How old are you? 43? Act like an adult for once. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 3:17pm
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Deadeye, I stole that saying from someone else, because it is so handy. There are other videos showing water cannon and rubber bullets being used to no effect. I know this is going to be turned into an issue. Mainly because of our history and the police using such deadly force to preserve the white government in the 80's. But the cops were forced. They might not have used as much restraint WHILE SHOOTING as they may have, but the shooting itself was justified. Plenty of people are complaining that people died because they attacked cops. Honestly? I don't want to say I hope this is a real wake up call, and that the police follow through with this, but it is what the country needed. Unfortunately people died to learn this lesson, but there hasn't been a wage protest or service delivery protest without violence. Currently the ANCYL, Malema's old crowd, are threatening violence in the Cape because the DA local government hasn't paved the roads in gold yet. Even though it is one of the only solvent local governments. ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 3:28pm
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Goodness. The whole thing just sounds like a mess.
One of the things I've been reading about is violence between rival mining unions. I cannot really find any information about this anywhere, do you have any more details as to what the rivalry is about? Is it just the previously mentioned moving membership?
I'm sure that history isn't helping anything at all. The same somewhat still goes for racial relations and the police in the southern U.S. (From the Jena Six situation to the Travon Martin case) as well, although that has eased a bit over time. The level of violence used was different somewhat, and it was in the 1960s as opposed to the 1980s. |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 5:06pm
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Not really much more to it than member transfer. The unions have always been rather militant in this country. I do not know if that is a holdover from Apartheid, when they were actually fighting for something important. The unions, as much as I hate to help FE along, have always used fear and intimidation tactics to help their cause, be it recruitment or out of the negotiating room persuasion. One of the things that annoys the heck out of me is there is ALWAYS violence, be it against other people or just property, and the unions ALWAYS claim it wasn't their members, but agent provocateurs or just plain criminals hiding in the union member marches. The unions in South Africa, especially the big ones like NUM, are more and more politically active, which IMHO is a bad thing. Miners in South Africa have always been ready to take the fight to the government, as in the 1922 white miners strike. http://www.joburgnews.co.za/march2002/1922strike.stm The Airforce and army artillery was used then. ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 10:07pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_blair_mountain" rel="nofollow - Copycats! Seriously though, most mining unions have, at some point in their history, relied on fear and violence. Maybe not at the top, but at some point down the chain, people tend to start taking to violence as a way to solve things on their own terms. Although, let me stress this very much, I honestly believe the violence stems more from mob mentality than from the act of unionization. You get enough people worked up over the same thing in the same place at the same time and you get a riot, it just so happens that all the rioters in these kinds of cases are of the same trade. Depending on who is at the top, well, you can either take this loosely controlled rabble army and use it as a bargaining chip, or you can tell them to all put down their machetes and conduct a peaceful strike. Back home, the later would prevail, but the enmity between unions and (law abiding and safety conscious) mine owners is much less than it was in the past. But again, the WV mine wars were almost 100 years ago, and we had the WWII and post war booms to help a lot of miners and their families to financial success. In the RSA, apartheid is still a fresh wound, and the financial situation for a lot of the working class isn't going so great despite the promises of a popularly elected government. Just remember Kayback, when it all goes to hell, Zambia is practically begging for you to move there and build a plantation or tilapia farm! ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 17 August 2012 at 11:01pm
Simple lesson; don't attack a police officer. They don't get paid enough to die because the media will be angry otherwise. They want to go home at the end of their shift, end of story. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 9:12am
 This is one of the vehicles that has been patrolling the mine area since the shooting. Looks awful similar to a 20mm loaded with a full belt of HEI to me. It can be seen at 0:47 in the Al Jazeera video of the shooting, but the gun was covered up. They were worried about some 5.56mm fire? Imagine that thing opening up. At 0:21 on the same video you can clearly see one person shooting at the cops with a pistol. The cops are still using rubber bullets at that stage. (our shotguns have all been reduced to less lethal loads in the form of M70 batton rounds only) KBK ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |