School text books-infused agenda
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Topic: School text books-infused agenda
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Subject: School text books-infused agenda
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 11:42am
| I find the liberal agenda that is etched into the design of school systems, the speech of instructors and in particular the text books absolutely grotesque.grotesque. |
Replies:
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 12:54pm
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Can't tell if serious. ------------- 
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 1:03pm
| Unequivocally serious |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 1:35pm
| Statistics are a communist plot. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 2:15pm
i can't believe that you just called barack obama a communist.it is racist and you should be sued for libel. |
rednekk98 wrote:Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 2:19pm
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Laptops were only invented to hide boners. I can prove it. Do you have any specific/general examples of this liberal agenda etching?
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 2:22pm
| Yes |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 2:25pm
| Fair enough. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 03 October 2012 at 4:58pm
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Interesting. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Tolgak
Date Posted: 04 October 2012 at 6:08pm
MY WORLD VIEW IS FOREVER ALTERED! ------------- 
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Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 04 October 2012 at 8:51pm
| Chemtrails are causing liberal hairdos. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 2:23pm
| %20" rel="nofollow - http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1175042 |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 6:25pm
| It's like I've intentionally chosen my life's paths based on secret liberal plots. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 7:05pm
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I’m going to somewhat reluctantly share just a few things that I have observed in college. EVERY SINGLE instructor I have had outside of the sign language program have openly condoned and/or made light of smoking marijuana, growing marijuana, drinking alcohol and use foul language. Ok so we’re all adults. That’s exactly the reason that foul language and such ILLEGAL topics should be refrained from. Do you want your future children hearing this garbage in school? The fact of the matter is that some students at my college are still in high school and under the legal age of adulthood. They also speak negatively about conservatives and are pushing political leaning on children that yes, are now old enough to wipe their own butts but they still need their parents to buy the toilet paper. For God’s sake let these children that are still molding who they are develop their own ideologies without trying to steer political votes.
One day I joined a group of people which my wife is part of, that were studying for the nursing program and they were talking about how an instructor openly claimed that he preferred young children for sex. Did anyone go to the Dean? I have no idea but if I would have been there his head would have rolled.
My wife has heard unacceptable, sexual innuendos and arguable sexual advances in 90% of her classes.
The text books are pockmarked with liberal concepts and conveniently they steer a biased positive light on liberal figures and media outlets. There are alternative examples without interjecting politics into classes that have nothing to do with politics. I’m not really taking count of such instances because I need to slalom around the political ideology to learn the content and receive an A in the class. I’d feel the same way if text books and/or instructors were trying to steer conservative votes.
In one text book, when I saw them shed positive light on the self-proclaimed Marxist, Van Jones. I almost lost it.
There are other things that concern me but my spiritual beliefs are not for consumption here. Is my college in the minority? |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 7:24pm
| There are christian colleges out there. |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 7:29pm
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I'll share my views as an instructor and a student.
As a student: I've had some professors who are open about those things, some not so much. It's been completely varied. I've had professors ask if I wanted to go get high (bravecoward knows who I'm talking about), and I've had some professors who were so straight-laced they wouldn't say "damn." As an instructor: I don't talk about marijuana, mostly because I don't use marijuana. I talk about drinking, because I drink, and because it's legal. I don't curse in front of my students, best I can help it. Overall though, I don't see what it has to do with someone's political leanings?
In college? I don't really have a problem with it. Even for dual-enrollment programs, those students and those approving of their placement in the program should be aware that college is composed of adults who will talk about adult things. Now, if we were talking about IN a high school, this is a completely different conversation.
As a student: That stuff is going to vary from place to place. It does happen because, frankly, professors have opinions. And yes, professors are going to be able to speak openly about those opinions -- but as long as they don't grade based on those opinions, I'm fine with it. I've had diehard conservative political science and economics professors before who I've done fine in their class and had open dialogue with. As an instructor: I don't discuss politics with my students, generally, unless it's on the topic of teaching them how to report on politics -- to which I keep everything as neutral as humanly possible.
Is it possible to discuss political ideas without it being "steering?"
What does this have to do with political ideology?
What does this have to do with political ideology?
Like?
In what context was the reference being used?
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 7:34pm
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I'm also referring to societal liberalism. sorry but I'm not going back through a pile of text books.maybe I should have made notes on my concerns. This isn't even about me. I'm concerned for the future of this nation. The garbage isn't going to influence me I'm too old and have been kicked around the block many times |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:10pm
| Yes, because we all know college/ university is where you go to be sheltered from thoughts and ideas and activities that you aren't used to. It should be a safe, conservative haven where new ideas and progressive exploration are absent. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:27pm
| I see what you're saying but it doesn't take away from the legitimacy of my concerns. The extra curricular garbage didn't exist 27 years ago when I was in college and the process of instructors teaching students was better in that respect. Obviously great strides in school related knowledge have happened since then. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:46pm
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It has been a long time since I was in college. I will say that most of the professors that taught my Criminal Justice courses and most of the Pre Law/Paralegal professors tended to be considerably more conservative than were most of my other professors. I don't remember any professors speaking about pot, but my gay German teacher with a Southern accent did invite all the students to the German restaurant every week and from my understanding tended to get very drunk.
I'll have to admit LB, you're a hell of a lot older than I thought you were. ------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:49pm
I'm not agreeing with LB, but I definitely had a couple classes(with mandatory spoken participation) where I was afraid to speak up because professors would deride conservative opinions or just act like I was unequivocally wrong. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 9:03pm
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Oldpbnoob; staying young is a lot of work. People freak out when I tell them my age. it makes me smile. In my first speech in oral communication in which I stated my age my instructor couldn't believe that I am older than her. I actually nailed it and got comments like"your speech was amazing"lol because I hate talking in front of large groups. I'm also now a class sign language interpreter at college communicating between the deaf teacher and students.she let me teach the class this week |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 9:08pm
Having a bad professor is entirely different from saying "Universities should not discuss things I do not personally agree with!" New ideas make people uncomfortable, but they need to learn to deal with it, not shut down new ideas. It's the same reason those profs are bad, now why would you want to make an entire school run that way? Education needs an overhaul as it is, the last thing it needs to do is go back to how it used to be. I can understand someone finding it uncomfortable if a professor mentions sex, drugs, or swears, or has other ideas they're not used to, but you're in university, it's time to GROW UP and be exposed to the world as it really is, not how you want your sheltered kids to perceive it. You're welcome to disagree with them/ anyone about their opinions, and you may choose to never swear or discuss drugs, but you have zero right to request that a school and its staff do the same. We don't need more sheltered weirdos. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 9:28pm
I certainly agree that people shouldn't be sheltered when they get to college, and I personally grew and evolved politically through college(though more may have been due to this forum than school), but the coin goes both ways. Someone shouldn't be shouted down or spoken down to because their beliefs(especially ones that's re not easily articulated) differ from their professors or the majority of the collegiate aged group. 18 may be too old to be sheltered, but it's not old enough to avoid succumbing to peer/authoritative pressures. It's an age where people should be given the chance to form their own opinions. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 3:38am
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So grateful I don't have kids. |
Posted By: oldpbnoob
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 9:55am
------------- "When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 1:57pm
| Wait, you're telling me that people condone the legalization of marijuana, the devil's weed, at these institutions? Burn them to the ground. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 2:51pm
| You're telling me that there aren't lines in the contract for employment that they signed that deal with and forbid condoning the use of illegal drugs. Genius |
Posted By: *Stealth*
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 3:17pm
I laughed so hard at "the devils weed". ------------- |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 5:46pm
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I'm willing to bet political bias is far more of a regional problem than a college problem. Here in Texas the vast majority of my professors have been conservative. The very few liberal professors I've had were still amazing teachers and in fact my only really crappy professor was an ultra conservative. I think, going back to my post in another thread, it's important to define liberal here. I'm afraid alot people go to school with the expectation of liberal / anti Christian bias and therefore spend half the class looking for excuses to be offended. This is especially true in more abstract subjects like philosophy...the butthurt gets palpable. I belIeve that college exists to develop critical reasoning skills. A big part of critical reasoning is dissecting an argument and analyzing it. If, by the end of college, you're unable to properly look at someone's point of view and break it down, you've either had a very poor college experience or you half assed it. As for some of the examples you listed...you'd be hard pressed to find anyone under the age of 50 that's not pro legalization of marijuana. Most of my professors swear. Very few of them are what I'd call religious. Very few of them are going to care about your opinion or respect it. If being exposed to radical ideas or ideas you disagree with are a problem, I'd suggest a good trade school. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 6:01pm
I absolutely agree, and certainly don't condone shutting down other points of view/ values. What I'm saying is that a school shouldn't shut those kind of things down either. It should be the place that encourages that kind of thought and discussion. So what if marijuana is illegal, that automatically means you should be afraid to discuss it? Or offended by it being discussed? Why? What harm is there in informing people and learning from their opinions. If you're against it, good for you, you should be able to back up your feelings and explain them, as should those who support it. What's the worst that can happen, you learn something from each other? |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 6:55pm
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Discussing pot and it's place in society is totally unrelated to an employee defying company policy. something else about "oh noz don't mention marajuana I'm afearin' it so much"; For a business communication class we had to come up with a business concept which involved groups of 4 students. A 40 something year old dopey insisted that we do a pro-dope in the workplace concept which had all sorts of holes in the concept. She was so stoned out of her mind that she was more concerned with "fighting for her right to party" than seeing that the concept was seriously flawed. The two young girls in the group absolutely disagreed on the concept but we didn't have time to argue with dopey on her beliefs. We literally had about 5 minutes to create a concept. My logo concepts were complete lol. And the brownies at the company picnic were the best. I told the class that we would have brought brownies to class to share "but we ate them all duuuude". The openly pro-dope instructor laughed pretty hard at that one. She did however flip on her acceptance to dope with me when she came to understand my position on the subject. I made a disclaimer in front of the class that I neither use dope or condone it. The instructor also has an email on file stating my position on the subject. All I need in my future work environment is someone saying "hey I remember that guy! he smokes dope". As hard as we worked to make the concept viable, at the end of our presentation the professor and students were asking "what exactly does your company do?" I waited for dopey to dig herself out of her intellectual property dilemma but she stood their speechless so I had to step up and dig her out. yeah. Got an A in the silly class. I think I had the highest score having more than the total points possible. |
Posted By: scotchyscotch
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 6:34am
| Why did the mushroom go to the party? Cause he was a FUNGI and didn't have a wee wobbler when anyone mentions grass. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 2:49pm
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So... you had a crappy team and let a stupid concept run free, and somehow the entire school system is brainwashing the youth into pot smoking crazies? You need to get over it. Some of the most successful people in the world do it regularly, and clearly it hasn't turned them into space case idiots. My stance is pretty obvious on it and I'm doing better and better each month right now. |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:06pm
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So you outnumbered the pothead 3 to 1 and you still went with her idea? ------------- 
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:12pm
| Choopie you're really twisting things to suit what you want to say.go back, re read the entire thread and tell me that it's about pot. Get over yourself |
Posted By: Mack
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:15pm
Gotta agree with this. ------------- 
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:54pm
Sorry I don't mean to say the whole thing is about pot, just that the fact you are personally uncomfortable with things doesn't give any grounds for thinking the system is brainwashing people/ too liberal/ corrupt. All my point is: Post-secondary education should encourage other points of view. You being opposed is 100% fine and should be heard, just as much as someone who is 100% for it, for any topic. It's how we learn. I still stand by what I said though, you had a crappy team with a crappy idea, and still let the idea go through. That's a problem with the people you're working with/ yourself. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 4:01pm
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 07 October 2012 at 5:46pm
| What I'm really pointing at is moral degradation. I think my strongest point is what is most likely a breech in employee contract in some of my points. What is this act in itself teaching students in a business communication class? Replace marijuana with heroin. I'm sure that there is information out there stating that there are actually some benefits to heroin. Who would I be to say what drugs are acceptable in a situation where they are used illegally? |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 12:36am
| I really doubt it's a breech of employee contract to make an off the cuff remark about marijuana. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 5:35am
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To condone the use of an illegal drug, sexual advances, pedophilia. all completely legit stuff. Do your own experiment. At your next company meeting stand up in front of the entire team and let everyone know how great smoking dope is.Be sure that the ceo is there. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 5:55am
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 5:56am
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You've seen the contract? -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 6:01am
| I don't need to. I could easily ensure that these instances would be real bad by going to the president of the school and my friends brother that owns about twelve television stations. |
Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 6:10am
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If this is such an extreme injustice that is ruining society, then why don't you? -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 6:21am
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This phone is so uncooperative. It's never too late. I have a couple of different ways I could deal with this.I'll keep you posted on the two instructors that hit on my wife. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 8:43am
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I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make anymore. You've moved on from liberalism to moral degradation to professors hitting on your wife. It sounds like you had a bad school experience and you're somehow reflecting that on the system in general. Someone hitting on your wife =/= the moral degradation of society. I've never had a professor who endorsed pedophilia, never had one who made sexual comments, etc, and I've had roughly 20 or 25 professors thus far. And seriously, my dad's the only person I know who still refers to marijuana as dope. -------------
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 8:56am
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There's a whole lot of "get off my lawn" in this thread. -------------
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 11:45am
| Strat.I'm pretty much wrapped up with what I have to say. The things that you a are pointing to are in my mind liberal in concept and a morals issue. |
Posted By: BARREL BREAK
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 1:04pm
| It's pretty obvious from your sentence construction that you've never paid much attention in school anyway. |
Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 2:23pm
In my job they would probably say "Yes, we all know, now shut up and sit down." As long as you don't do it at work/ don't bring it into the work place, they don't care. |
Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 3:10pm
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My instructor said on the first day of class. "If you choose this profession, you will become a drunk or addict. Pick which one now" Everyone laughed, but the words had a lot of merit. |
Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 5:29pm
Pain killer. As an opiate it actually works really well to reduce pain. It has a few drawbacks / side effects though. Diamorphine. Great stuff. KBK ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 7:35pm
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 9:42pm
If you think your professors are being out of line or unprofessional, college should be a safe place where you can address those concerns. I'd first talk to the professor in question, privately, you now, like adults in a professional setting would ideally handle this. There are professional ways to handle these issues in a class, if they aren't doing this, that's an issue. I hate to break it to you, but if I were currently teaching social studies in a public school in my state, it would be irresponsible of me not to discuss the ballot questions coming up in this election season, one of which includes medicinal marijuana, and another physician-assisted suicide. While I'd need to focus more on being a moderator and critiquing arguments students made in class based on validity and for the most part, keep my opinions to myself, if I were teaching at a college I would expect that with the considerable investment of time and money invested, not to mention peer vetting, required to get to that point in my career would allow me to hold and defend an opinion in a workplace that encourages people to develop, explore and defend opinions. Maybe you prefer a society that through social and professional norms discourages people from expressing their political opinions in setting other than ranting anonymously on the internet or grumbling at the TV when only their family is present, but rational, enlightened, and informed adults should be able to have these discussions if they so choose regardless of setting.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 10:04pm
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The other problem here is that morality is completely relative. You can't just pander to the most conservative denominator to avoid offending everybody.
And school is full of abstract concepts that are taught from the viewpoint of the original authors. Try taking an unbiased, unoffensive method to teaching Nietzsche or Marx...these were very passionate philosophers whose thoughts must be conveyed in the style of their writings to properly walk away with an education.
But that's the trouble...we only find issues controversial if we ourselves disagree with them. I wonder if this thread would still have existed had LB's teachers been raging conservatives blasting secularism and humanistic teachings while enforcing monotheistic JudeoChristian values? -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 10:13pm
Which is ironic if you look at the historical development of academia.
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Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 10:41pm
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The pure definition of the term liberalism has been hijacked by the political arena. Conservatives do liberal things every day. Some are harmless things and others are destructive. I'm really addressing issues that I disapprove of and that can manifest in any group. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 10:44pm
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 11:19pm
Alright now we're getting somewhere with this discussion.
I asked this earlier, but I'll shoot again-what is liberalism to you?
I suspect by your discussion that liberalism and humanism / secularism would be very closely related. That's fine, I'm not about arguing dictionary definitions, but bear in mind that the political arena is where liberalism as a word got its start.
From Wiki-
Carry this, say, a couple hundred years in the future and you see the word "liberal" being touted around by Republicans when aiming for civil rights and desegregation movements.
In actuality the word has been twisted in the way that you're using it. There is no negative connotation to terms like liberal and conservative, and they don't necessarily work against each other. You can be pro human rights and against change at the same time.
The movement that you, and most other conservatives, refer to is more like a militant secularist movement. I think that the connotations applied are almost a conglomeration of secularist and various other ideologies that the conservative right love to hate but in reality those are boogymen and not representative of the liberal philosophy on the whole.
The forum did a test way back when and we found that, despite our constant bickering, we all tested very similarly on the political compass. We were all just slightly left of center. That's how I generally apply liberalism-left of the center on the political compass.
Which brings me to this...
People tend to believe that the school system has warped history and moved its political focus to the left when in reality there's alot of argument that initial teachings of history were warped in a pro-American, conservative sense. Nobody would have painted the US as the bad guy in any conflict or dispute in 1950's America. Nobody would have dared question the idea that maybe our system was not founded on the ideas that we had traditionally believed.
But as historians began to dig into personal diaries and documents from the common man rather than the ideologues that generally get the attention in history, they found that the traditional view was warped based on the political and military leaders whose lens it was seen through. Looking at history from the bottom up has caused us to shift our views to a more humanitarian and therefore more liberal viewpoint.
So in essence you're right, just not in the way you think you are. Rather than a vast degredation of the system what we've seen is an attempt to preserve the integrity of history itself by removing the ultra conservative / patriotic clear coat applied to it.
This is tough for baby boomers to deal with because it seems like rewriting history to be anti-God or anti-American. Instead the reality is that history is much too complex to define with a broad brush and an actual study thereof requires one to remove their big bad political theories and look through multiple viewpoints. That's why I emphasize the critical reasoning elements of school so hard...without critical reasoning school will baffle and anger you. -------------
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 11:21pm
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:10am
I was going a little bit older. The oft-used accusation that the academy is full of liberals is ironic because of the beginning of "the university." Universities started as added-on schools to monasteries and cathedrals. They were powerful tools of the church -- universities were some of the only places you could go to learn Latin and other documents of historic and biblical significance. And you could only go to university if 1) you were selected, and 2) you could pay. They also taught some groundbreaking stuff in economics, math (kinda stolen from the Middle East) and theory/rhetoric, but for the most part they taught interpretation of theological text. It fostered the university as the place where old knowledge and ideas were protected, not where new ideas formed. That concept of "university" didn't come about for almost 600 years.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:14am
Sorry, that particular phrase was aimed at Lightning not yourself. I was referring to his idea of liberal bias in American colleges being right, but only in the way that he had the definition and concept of liberalism wrong. -------------
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:36am
Oh for sure. Universities most likely do have a "liberal" bias from some perspectives, if only in the sense that the idea of research and growth is opposite of "conservative."
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:47am
| The answers we made up ages ago are good enough for me, science is the devil. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:19am
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What I've found that I like about the division that I'm in, which is the sign language interpretation division is that the instructors stick to the subject matter and the students do as well. I mean that's what I paid for. To me, lessons for the street's are taught on the streets. As I am either in class as a student or working there as an interpreter between a Deaf instructor and the students, even the comedic moments stay subject related. A PhD. In smoking dope doesn't require tuition. |
Posted By: Lightningbolt
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:57am
| Maybe obama could push the concept of having core requirement classes like Blowing dope signals while sitting with your legs crossed 101. How about Advanced free-basing. |
Posted By: Gatyr
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:38pm
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Still not sure if srs.
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:48pm
I hated AFB. The final kept me up for days. -------------
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Posted By: choopie911
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 7:10pm
The trick is to do a TON the month leading up to the final. By the time you get around to it, it'll seem like such a small amount you'll only be up for the night or two. |
Posted By: rose49petter
Date Posted: 19 October 2012 at 7:28am
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