Voting for the Less of the 2 Evils?
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Topic: Voting for the Less of the 2 Evils?
Posted By: impulse418
Subject: Voting for the Less of the 2 Evils?
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 6:47am
Why? |
Replies:
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 10:45am
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Does Ross Perot ring a bell? Probably before your time. Basically voting for the third party, ususally by more moderate Republicans and a few moderate Democrats leads to a Democrat win. ------------- 
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Posted By: Skillet42565
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 10:56am
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The governor already has my vote. I know he won't win, but this is not a betting pool or a horse race, one should always vote with intention rather than probability. ------------- 
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 11:20am
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A fine example of a 'proxy' vote for Obama. Your statement "I know he won't win" is indicative of the mindset of the current third party voter. Will vote third party, hense Democrat by 'proxy' and can safely go into the 'Not my fault, I voted for Johnson' defense in polite conversation. -------------
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 11:55am
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It could result in that, but it also sends a message to both the major parties that you are dissatisfied with their performance/positions. If you continue to support garbage parties in elections, nothing is going to change. ------------- 
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 12:10pm
| I don't vote for the president, my state sends electors for that, and for the candidate of the same party pretty consistently. I'n anything resembling a swing-state, voting for the lesser of two evils might be a valid idea, but in a solid red or blue state, there's no harm in going 3rd party to show your dissatisfaction. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 1:55pm
You're goddamn right, (NY sounding off) and you bet your ass I'm not voting (R) or (D) this year. Not only has neither side done nothing to impress me- they've gone out of their way to disgust me. ------------- ? |
rednekk98 wrote:Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 1:55pm
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Voting independent isn't throwing your vote away-it sends a message to the losing party. It's been done more than once throughout history. That said-cutting the military in half is something the American people are not going to support. ------------- 
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 2:32pm
| I don't think either Obama or Romney are evils one must decide between -- they've both demonstrated the capabilities to lead and to so successfully as moderates, if moderates slightly on either side of a political line. |
Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 2:40pm
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I went to http://www.isidewith.com" rel="nofollow - I side with.com and learned that I agree with Gary Johnson over the other two. Since Texas is safe for Romney, I'll go ahead and throw a vote to Johnson. ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 5:33pm
I did the same on a similar site, and found the same result. With CT so deeply blue, I'll probably throw him a vote as well. ------------- 
http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 7:29pm
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Oddly enough i voted pro amnesty, pro military intervention, pro big military, pro gay marriage, pro raising the debt ceiling, etc...and yet I'm 92% in line with Gary Johnson. I suddenly doubt the accuracy of that site. -------------
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 7:42pm
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^^ I went big government and only got 13% Johnson ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 8:18pm
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I don't believe in voting for someone you don't believe should be your president. I'm voting third party this election. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 10:22pm
My results:  |
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 10:40pm
Still won't vote for Romney.
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Posted By: Rofl_Mao
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 10:43pm
| The thug life chose you RoboCop. |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 11:06pm
LIBRAL -------------
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 11:39pm
| I wonder how often these stay up to date with flip flopping. |
Posted By: Yomillio
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 11:43pm
Dunski. -------------
http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=172327 - Forum XBL Gamertag Collection |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 12:13am
| That's an impressively even split, Yomillio. |
Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 2:45am
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Interdasting.. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/screenshot20121020at114.png/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 8:11am
 ------------- ? |
Posted By: pntbl freak
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 10:03am
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 10:11am
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92 Jill stein. 91 Obama. 37 Romney. ------------- Que pasa? 
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Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 10:52am
 ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 11:18am
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I NEED FE to do this and post his results. I'm curious. ------------- ? |
Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 12:30pm
 ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 12:33pm
| I'd like the candidates to take the test. Just to see. |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 21 October 2012 at 8:43pm
| About like Bri, invert the first two. |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 8:35am
No surprises here...  ------------- They tremble at my name... 
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:26am
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Id like "I side with" more if it actually took Romney's politics into it, and not just each party's platform. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 8:35am
I am a Conservative Libertarian. I have voted 3rd party before with disappointing results. Voted for Ross Perot and got Clinton. Voted for Bob Barr and got Obama. At the time, did I feel that I was throwing my vote away? No. Did it give me license to complain about who did get elected? Yes, but the feeling was less than satisfactory. I, too thought that voting 3rd party would help send a message to the R & D. In my opinion, it did not. The Libertarian Party is the next largest party (last I knew) next to the Republicans and Democrats. Drug legalization, anti-war, anti-intervention and small limited government basically steps on the toes of the Republicans and Democrats alike. Unless they start getting footholds in Congress, I don't see them as a very realistic, viable option for the Executive branch. I'm being a realist here. I promised myself before the 2008 election that I would not vote Republican or Democrat ever again. It looks like I'll be breaking that promise this election. ------------- 
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Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:40am
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Falling on your sword for an unwinnable candidate is in today's tight political morass is almost like giving the vote to the Democrats. Though admirable in thought, not a good idea in reality. Most moderates and third party are center right or more right leaning, seldom has a Left leaning third party entered the legitimate mix. So any vote from the right to a third party is a vote taken away from the Republican candidate. -------------
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:48am
Again, in a non-swing state, this isn't true at all. My state's electorate is giving Obama 'my' vote no matter whose name I put on the ballot. I'm NOT taking a vote away from Romney (which isn't a terrible thing anyway) since even if I DID vote for him- he wouldn't have gotten it anyway. If the election was based on the popular vote- the case could be made for dividing parties in favor of a lost cause, but it ain't, so it can't. ------------- ? |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:55am
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That is the point. The message is lost in the morass of large state political dominance. NY will go Democrat no matter what, so the message of a vote for a third party is lost. Even out here in Nebraska, the urban centers of Omaha and Lincoln go Democrat, the rural counties go Republican, and the split sent to the electorial college is representitive. The all or none states are the problem. -------------
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:02am
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Romney is a left leaning moderate. I won't vote for him. Either the GOP will start getting the message, or I'll start looking for real estate in Arizona. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:21am
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I'm just going to leave this link to the Gary Johnson interview here incase anyone missed it. Start at 39:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S97wv_lEoJQ&feature=plcp" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S97wv_lEoJQ&feature=plcp
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:42am
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Amazing how many 1%'rs this forum has... I remember Ross Perot, and at least he got on the stage for the debates. Flip chart for the win. Another 4 years for Clinton... It would be interesting to see what would happen to American with another 4 years of Obama... You think it is bad now... heh, heh. Imagine if your energy prices doubled again... Course part of the problem with youth is the way they think they "know better" than their elders. I remember being that age, and thinking that way too. Romney 50% Obama 46% Other 1% Undecided 3% http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll" rel="nofollow - http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:55am
A: For every elder backing your idea, there's an elder opposing it. There are just as many liberal elders in politics as conservatives so it does no good to tell someone to listen to their elders. You should think for yourself and from your own experience. B: I just really hate that phrase. Youth have alot of intellectual advantages and shouldn't be downplayed. You know what old people hate? Change. C: Most people on this forum are in their 20s. Your extra decade or two hasn't created THAT big of an intellect gap ;) I -------------
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 11:20am
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I used to sound exactly like that... And I'm not talking intellect. I'm talking life experience. When you have experienced more your concept of "what you know" will change. I was stinking BRILLIANT when I graduated from college... No one could tell me anything, as I had "infinite perspectives". As I have gotten older, it just makes me realize how much I don't know. This isn't a new phenomenon, as discussions like this have been going on forever. Young people always think they are more advanced than prior generations... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:35pm
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FE, what have you experienced in your life that I haven't experienced? Please enlighten me. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:05pm
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Tons, and as you get older and live life more, you will understand, but at your age, you can't... If I listed all the stuff I have done, it would come across as bragging. Put it this way, how many houses have you owned? How many cars have you owned? How many miles have you driven? Someone who has owned 5 or more houses probably knows more about houses than a guy that has only lived in their folks house, and has never owned one themselves. Just like someone who has owned a bunch of cars and worked on them when they broke down, probably has a better grasp of cars than someone who has only owned one car, and they have never worked on it. Just like if you have driven 100,000 miles, a person who has over 1,000,000 miles under their belt probably has a better amount of skill/life experience than you, as they have seen and done so much more. It is the way of the world, schooling is only a small part of intelligence. That is why it is so amusing when Whale talks about how business "works", when he has never run a business, or started a business, or closed a business... Course, if you have "infinite perspectives" on things, you must be smarter than everyone else. Or something. I'm not picking on you young guys, I was exactly like you when I was your age. As you get older, you will look back on this and be like. "oh, I now see what FE was talking about"... ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:16pm
So by your logic a person who has never killed anyone can't talk about war. I've never been to space so I have no relevant concept of weightlessness. There's a flipside to experience that you haven't pointed out though-bias. You've been successful in the methods you've used but those methods might not work for every person or in every state. College allows you a multifaceted viewpoint that experience can't lend itself to. Again, flipsides. -------------
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:20pm
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FE, just because most of us are in our 20's, doesn't mean that you're the only person with more "life experience" than us that we know. The difference is that you think your world view based on your personal experiences should outweigh the input we may get from any other person of the exact same age. And that's coming from one one with similar political feelings as you. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: FreeEnterprise
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:34pm
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Right, except you can't gain life experience by listening to others talk about their life experiences... YOU have to live it yourself to experience it. That is why it is called "life experience". I'm not saying I know everything, or my point of view is the only one that matters. It is just amusing to watch you guys vote 3rd party when you have such little life experience to understand how pointless that is. We have a two party system, not a three party system. Voting third party is throwing away your vote. You are welcome to do it, but in doing so you are only being part of the 1% who think their "non" vote impacts something. ------------- They tremble at my name...
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:18pm
The blind arrogance here astounds me, explain to me then the mass numbers of people your age who are throwing their support behind third party candidates? One of my computer clients is a retired educator with decades of real world experience, has lived abroad, speaks multiple languages fluently, and has seen more of the world than I'd wager you have, Shes been involved in all levels of education, and while I cant say how many houses she's owned, she is by far one of the most intelligent people I know....and she's voting third party. You're better and smarter though I guess. Several friends of mine, my age (30) and older, successful small business owners, military veterans as well as Active duty, family men starting off, some wealthy, some poor....third party. People from all walks and stations of life that I'm seeing, disenchanted republicans and democrats....third party support. But you're telling me that because you've owned five houses you're smarter than they, and me.... You cant account for the life experiences of anyone but yourself, and discounting people on the basis of youth...considering you 'old guys' are the ones that had elected the people prior to this that have created the mess you're trying to pin strictly on Obama, That doesn't smack of intelligence to me. My not voting for Romney IS a statement for my opinion against the FAILED two party system which has corrupted itself beyond repair, and registering my opinion is NOT a waste, and I'll not have anymore of your bullying that says otherwise. My opinion and that of those like me is just as informed as yours is, if not more so because perhaps the merits of the establishment have worn thin, and its not too hard to see that as soon as you stop believing that one side has all the answers and the other is Satan reborn. ------------- ? |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:27pm
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Again voting third party this late in 'the game' is an admirable 'fall on your sword' moment, but will it effect anything, no. Other than possibly the 'Ross Perot Effect' as enough third party votes will be drawn off Republicans to give election to Democrats. Now if the third party came out earlier, with a better run and 'out there' selling it campaign, and financing, where the name was a well known entity in the race, maybe, but till this I never heard of this guy. This is just a matter of too little too late, and a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' moment in time for many of you. I would love to see a third party candidate in a position to actually win, as my ABO vote could be for the candidate, but out here where we are not a all or nothing state, I will not waste the vote. I am stuck in the preverbial between a rock and a hard place. -------------
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:32pm
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You do realize having more years of experience =/= having experienced everything the world has to offer right? I can pretty confidently say that while you have more home ownership experience than I do, there are other facets of life I or other members of the forum/general public could talk you into the ground on. Experience isn't omniscience. And often times our perceptions of our experiences lead us to some very inaccurate conclusions. Case in point: many police officers will swear to you, full moons bring out the crazy in people. Evidence says they are full of poo. Obviously this is not always the case, but personally I like empirical data far, far more than "experience."
*fixed with one of them fancy computer devices. ------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:33pm
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*sorry for the wierd typing. My phone doesn't like the forum.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:40pm
I wondered about that. ------------- ? |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:13pm
I can't even get to the forum on my phone. None of the tricks that worked initially are still effective. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:25pm
Also, there's the concept of knowledge through observation, which is a really intrinsic part of empirical knowledge. I don't need to catch an STI in order to know the importance of condoms while sexually active. I can observe the negative repercussions of someone else directly, or I can read the writings in a book based on the observations others have made of those who have contracted an STI. Same goes with "business," as was brought up. The idea that one must open/run/close a business in order to unlock some kind of hidden wisdom is a little silly. Knowledge doesn't really quite work like that. Now, the argument can be made that experience allows someone to better grow empathetic relations, for sure. If you quantify something like confidence, for example, experience most likely increases (or hey maybe decreases) confidence the longer a business operates. But that's all data that can be collected, analyzed and expanded. And then the question becomes -- http://www.sonoma.edu/users/w/warmotha/awintersubjective.html" rel="nofollow - what actually isn't experience? Scientific philosophy is kind of grand.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:26pm
When I opened it on my phone it looked just fine. Weird.
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:31pm
Each generation since about 1930 has been quantifiably more intelligent than the previous generation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect" rel="nofollow - Introducing the Flynn Effect.
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:32pm
Yes, but we don't own five houses, and not NEARLY as many cars. ------------- ? |
Posted By: mbro
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:33pm
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:44pm
------------- ? |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:55pm
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The liberty to vote guaranteed us by those who went before did not come with the caveat "but only if you'll vote Whig or Torre." We are not doomed to the two party system(not that I think a system like, say Germany's, is better). I'm a conservative, I consider voting for a moderate like Romney just as much a waste of my vote as you think voting 3rd party is. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:07pm
The two-party system is actually kind of awesome, if you ask me. Which you didn't.
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Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:34pm
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^Please, do elaborate.
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:40pm
The median voter theorem almost guarantees that out president will be some form of a moderate. Having two parties in Congress means things get done much faster than a parliamentary or FPTP system with many smaller fragmented parties. Fewer people to try to get on the same page. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:42pm
I definitely prefer it to, say, the coalition system that Germany uses, and I don't HATE it for the presidential race. However, if the best way to express my displeasure with the current GOP will also empower conservative third parties for congressional movements is to vote third party? That's what I will do. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:53pm
What do you specifically want to see changed in the GOP? -------------
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 6:00pm
| The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. |
Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 6:01pm
It's more about who they select to support for races. Romney is, for all intents and purposes, not nearly the fiscal conservative he portrays himself as. I'd like the government to stop trying to be a job creating entity and get its hands out of business. I'd like to see a modified balanced budget amendment. We spend too much time worrying about social issues(things that could easily be handled on a state to state basis) and not enough time shoring up the financial status of our country, while allowing the tax system to continue making it more profitable to move jobs and offices overseas. We have congressmen from both sides of the aisle who balloon their salaries and benefits by hiding them in otherwise innocuous legislation. ------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 7:58pm
that's my every day. ------------- ? |
Posted By: jmac3
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:08pm
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My brazilian co worker told me about Brazilian elections. Cracked then had an article on it. That is the system we should adopt. ------------- Que pasa?
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Posted By: agentwhale007
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:22pm
It's a very positive thing, too. |
Posted By: __sneaky__
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:47pm
------------- "I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl Forum Vice President RIP T&O Forum |
Posted By: StormyKnight
Date Posted: 24 October 2012 at 6:20pm
Definitely not a conservative. Campaigns like one when he needs to. The conservative candidates were cast aside as being too radical and non-compromising, or at the very least portrayed as such.
I agree to a certain extent. It still isn't a bad idea to help foster an environment where business can easily start, thrive and grow.
This. I'd like to see ANY balanced budget amendment for the country. Several states in the union have them, why not the country?
Abso-freaking-lutely! Obamacare, same-sex marriage and abortion to name a few. The federal government has overstepped its bounds here for sure. -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:16pm
I think that trying to create a balanced budget amendment is nearly an impossibility. Think of what started our massive deficit-the Bush era wars. Now in retrospect we tend to be very critical of them, but at the time they was a very high approval rating of both the President and the wars. I don't need to bring up all of the Democrats who were for the war, then totally weren't for it that was a typo please erase it from the record. The point is that the government, and the US in general, often times works off of a negative debt due to unforseen consequences. Much of the debt we see now is also a result of poor economic conditions-unemployment drives up welfare dependence, economic downturns cause people to shift industries which can drive up student debt, etc etc. You've got returning GI's using their GI Bils and claiming disability, etc etc etc. The last 10 years have wrecked us, and, rather than absorbing that cost in the private market as we did in the Great Depression in many ways the government absorbs some of it to help get people back on their feet. Not to say that I support massive government spending-I'm very much an economic conservative. But I think that simply ordering Congress to balance the budget would be like walking in and telling one of us we had to get rid of our auto and house loans by next summer. It sounds good, but it's unlikely. So while I wished we hadn't gotten involved so deeply in the wars, I wished we had been more choosey about our bailout money and stimulus / tax cut plans, in the end there's nothing we can do now but offset as much as we can and try and bring it down through every budget. I wholeheartedly disagree with plans that call for killing education initiatives, cutting the military budget by nearly half, so on and so forth. These are drastic changes with drastic consequences. Not implying that you support those measures, but that's the talk I'm seeing circulated around right now as fiscal conservatism. Conservatives have not actually spent a substantial amount different than their more liberal counterparts in the past-it's what they spend it on that's different. So I'm not sure the GOP is ever going to reform spending the way they're peddling it now. That's not a Romney issue, that's a Republicans-in-general issue. Go back and look at Reagan's spending / tax rates compared to what we have now.
I 100% agree with this statement. It's actually one of my pet peeves with the current political spectrum-but bear in mind this isn't the parties' faults. This is the fault of the armchair politicians who wrap their entire lives around women's rights (read:abortion and birth control), gay marriage, and gun control. If Romney had refused to speak on any of those issues he'd have been dropped out of the primaries like a hot potato because the people want to hear their ideological egos stroked by their respective party members.
Again, totally agreed. I will say though, alot of the labor we've lost to overseas jobs hasn't been as much as a result of the tax code as a result of labor laws. If you can buy in bulk from China why pay an American to make it? This will settle itself out eventually when China faces a humanitarian uprising like we did, but they're basically in the equivalent of our early industrial revolution and we all know how that turned out. Now as far as tax loopholes and whatnot, absolutely agreed, but I believe that those were some of Romney's earliest campaign points. It's what peaked my interest in him way back in 09-he seemed fairly in touch with the tax code.
Again, 100% agreed. I think this also comes back on the American people though-remember how they just dropped the NDAA in an appropriations bill? We can't hold politicians accountable of the people are asleep when the bills are passed and telling the government to regulate itself against corruption would be an exercise in futility. -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:21pm
Again, I find the term conservative kind of vague. The conservatives who were dropped were dropped because they had glaring issues or failed to campaign properly. If anything this was the most conservative-centric primary I've seen in my lifetime. The words conservative and tea party were thrown around ad nauseum but, as I said in my response to usaf, what most people are starting to attribute to conservatism really hasn't applied to the Republican party since I've been alive. The major "conservative" contenders were Gingrich, Caine, Santorum, and Bachman. I can't see any of those people making it beyond 30 or 40 percent in the polls. The party did all but hold their noses when they nominated Romney, that's why I don't see this vast Republican conspiracy to oust real conservatives from the party. The conservatives that ran were, politically, DOA. And I still think Ron Paul ran on the wrong ticket. -------------
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Posted By: stratoaxe
Date Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:58pm
Sorry for the triple post, but I found this on the wiki site on balanced budget amendments and find it interesting for no particular purpose other than that it's fascinating to see how the deficit has climbed in the last few decades.
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