ID a gun thread
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
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URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=190805
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Topic: ID a gun thread
Posted By: SSOK
Subject: ID a gun thread
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 1:32am
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well... Half of a gun, anyway. It is my roomates, girlfriends, dads gun. I haven't seen it myself, but apparantly it has 7.62 stamped into the wood stock and a "No. 8" in a circle on the drivers side of the reciever. Let me know.
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Replies:
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 1:45am
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It is the rear assembly of a 1895 Winchester chambered for 7.62X54R and sold to Czarist Russian 1915, 300,000 of them. The served in the Czars army prior to the revolution, were lost, traded sold off and were returned to the US by some means ever since. http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/10/18/russias-winchester-model-1895/" rel="nofollow - http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/10/18/russias-winchester-model-1895/ The number 'No.8' in a circle is a Czarist Russian Arsenal Storage marking. If you look at the reciever the 'split' line is where Henry and Winchester split the cases for manufacture as seen in the pic of the 1895. The curved cocking handle was a Russian adaptation for the gloves in winter need to opoerate the rifle in the cold. Does the dad have the rest of the gun? Worth quite a bit to collectors if it is a Czarist issue. Also of note and research: Military Between 1915 and 1917 approximately 300,000 M1895's were manufactured for the army of Russian Empire, accounting for about 70% of total production of the rifles prior to 1936 when the M1895 was discontinued. Chambered in 7.62×54mmR, these musket versions were unusual for a lever-action rifle in that they also had a charger guide, allowing the M1895 rifle to be reloaded by the same charger clips used in the Mosin–Nagant bolt action rifle.[3] Initial delivery of the rifles was delayed because adaptation to Russian standards, particularly the charger guide, proved more difficult than expected.[4] Additional delays resulted from incompetent and obstructive Russian inspectors, who refused to use Winchester-made test gauges despite no Russian gauges existing,[4] insisted that test ammunition be shipped from Russia (instead of using readily available Winchester ammunition made on Russian contract),[5] and often rejected rifles for irrelevant flaws such as wood grain in the stock being insufficiently straight.[5] Winchester later sold these rejected rifles on the US commercial market.[5] Russia issued many of their Winchester Model 1895 rifles to troops from Finland and the Baltic states, especially the Latvian Riflemen.[6] At least 9,000 Model 1895 rifles are known to have been provided by the Soviet Union in 1936 to the Spanish Republicans for use in the Spanish Civil War.[7] ------------- 
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 6:41am
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I'm gonna say "Bet me to it" so everyone thinks I knew what it was right away. ------------- ? |
Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 12:37pm
I think it might be a 1885, since this is a falling block and not a lever action. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 12:57pm
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Yeah, I'd say 1885 as well. But still Imperial Russian. http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-new-prosperity/case-45-early-target-practicethe-era-of-schuetzenfest/winchester-model-1885-single-shot-falling-block-rifle.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-new-prosperity/case-45-early-target-practicethe-era-of-schuetzenfest/winchester-model-1885-single-shot-falling-block-rifle.aspx ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 2:07pm
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Unless the reciever was 'cu't per the pic posted the 1885 was a cast or forged single piece where the 1895 had the 'split' reciever to fit the russian 'strippers' as per the order. Per the russian order the 95 had to accept the standard stripper, which is why the reciever was moded in two pieces. The 7.62 stamp in the stock is correct for the Russian export rifles, denoting chambered for the 7.62X54R russian cartrige, the 1885 did not come in 7.62 nor was exported. Again if it was a US rifle civilian or military of the era the correct stamping would be .30cal, 7.62 is strictly a european marking in metric. Along with the No8 russian arsenal mark, has to make it an export 1895. Also look at the reciever of the 1885, the raised bolt channel along the top of the reciever casting/forge is absent in the pic originally posted. The 1895 did not have that prominant bolt channel, and the pic does not have the rear of the channel. -------------
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 2:43pm
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Yeah, but the hand-guard for the lever action doesn't match any 1895 I've seen. It's exactly the same as the 1885. Any chance the parts were interchangeable? ------------- <Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.> |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 2:58pm
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Understand the 'furnature' of any weapon this old could have been replaced anywhere along the chain of possetion. The stock for the Russian exports looks like your example, plain and heavy laquered. As you stated has the required 7.62 stamp, and is correct for the russian export. Military stocks will be differant that any civilian issue in this period based on the 'order' placed by whichever government wants them. The Russian order required a plain wooden stock, so a universal fit 1885/95 stock was just turned to the required specs. Look at the difference between the Springfield 1903 and the export P-17, same stock, just turned to a differant spec as required, they are near interchangable. -------------
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Posted By: evillepaintball
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 3:14pm
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I would listen to OS on this one. He was probably part of the design team. ------------- 
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 5:19pm
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SSOK wrote:Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 9:14pm
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It's a Glock or Ak47. ------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 10:07pm
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It is a Winchester repeater reciever block half and stock, missing hammer, possibly bolt slide, thats it. The lever is the modified version for export to Russia as the M-1895R. The requirment for it to be top loaded with the Russian standard 5 round stripper clip made a split reciever easier than a single cast/forged reciever. The stripper was placed on grove above open bolt, the 5 7.62X54R rounds slid down the loader lever ramp into the tube magazine. Were early round nose bullets to prevent point of bullet behind blowing primer of round to front. -------------
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Posted By: Kayback
Date Posted: 28 November 2012 at 5:21am
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I'd go with OS on this one. He knows. And as joked above, it was probably his CCW back in the day. That being said, we've narrowed it down to Winchester : Consumer Department directly at: 800.333.3288 or 801.876.2711 ------------- Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2 |
Posted By: brihard
Date Posted: 28 November 2012 at 6:07pm
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Damn. OS is good. ------------- "Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 28 November 2012 at 6:25pm
| It's not an http://world.guns.ru/rifle/repeating-rifle/usa/winchester-m195-e.html" rel="nofollow - M1895 . Take a look at the diagram of the lever itself, and the way the trigger is connected. Don't make me track one down just to prove an argument on the internet. |
Posted By: oldsoldier
Date Posted: 28 November 2012 at 8:33pm
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Wow, the picture I got of the M1895R didn't look like the RU site rifle at all, was a smooth reciever, and the altered lever was a Russian contract requirement for cold weather operation with heavy gloves. The 7.62 also threw off ID. Could be a 'bastard' special issue. Found this: First (1895) Models have flat sides, rounded top and breech bolt, and a one-piece lever. The Second Model has a fluted receiver with a two-piece lever. http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1895.shtml  The #2 rifle is a flat side, simular to original pic I found of the 1895R, trying to find it again. Was a Russian 'musket' type 1895. Wood furnature varied, so the 1895R is still a potential 'hit' on the reciever. Was the reciever 'cut' as the initial pic appears. Still that 7.62 stamping as id'd is a pure european stamping of the era, US rifle would be .30cal. or .30army in SAE measurement, there was only one 'lever' rifle exported to a european market in 7.62(x54R) that was the M1895R. -------------
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 28 November 2012 at 11:28pm
| I would have thought they'd go with a larger lever loop on a russian rifle, but I haven't seen one with anything but the standard, but it lacks the trigger linkage and the whole front part of the lever looks wrong from an M1895. An 1885 high wall falling block looks right, just minus the barrel and forend. Still a cool piece, and probably more rare. |