I want a new truck
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: News And Views
Forum Name: Thoughts and Opinions
Forum Description: Got something you need to say?
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=192104
Printed Date: 08 September 2026 at 10:56am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: I want a new truck
Posted By: impulse418
Subject: I want a new truck
Date Posted: 03 May 2015 at 2:00pm
After 4 years of behavioral health, I'm taking a break and joining the private sector which comes with a significant pay raise. I should save the money, but the alcoholic in me is saying to buy a new truck Buahaha.
I've been looking at 4x4 Tacoma's and Frontiers. I like the Tacoma more, and figure thousands of freedom fighters can't be wrong haha. I need you guys to help justify this purchase for me.
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Replies:
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 03 May 2015 at 2:41pm
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Save till you can pay it all at once and still have security money leftover. Maybe even before trade-in. Then you can get the newest version with some upgrades.
I'll probably be driving my 120k mile car for some time before I can afford a new one. This at least makes me wait until the toyota FT1 comes out... please toyota!
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 03 May 2015 at 6:40pm
I'm going to disagree with Robo. Sure, saving up and paying cash for a new car/truck is always nice, but sometimes it's not possible, or you don't foresee your current vehicle lasting long enough to do so. I've never paid for a vehicle in cash... ever. And you know what? So long as your credit rating isn't in the crapper, you can usually get a great finance deal that, while it does technically cost you more than an all-cash deal, doesn't set you back too terribly much either. I'm only spending something like 1.2k more on my Legacy vs all-cash over 5 years.
It's nice to say "oh, I don't have a car loan, so I'm going to put all of this money away instead" but in reality, that never happens.
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 03 May 2015 at 10:17pm
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This also gives him time to think if it's something he really wants. He has the extra money right now and wants to let it burn. If he just takes longer to mull over it, he will be more confident in his purchase. He never said he needed a new truck, he wants people to justify the purchase so there isn't a need for it.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 03 May 2015 at 11:27pm
Well, I technically need a 4x4, but not necessarily a new truck. My credit isn't the greatest, and haven't used credit in the last 6 years... I would like to help change that by having a car payment.
I don't want a car payment, nor do I need a new vehicle. But I have never owned a new vehicle and figure if I do get one, buy a vehicle that'll I'll keep until I have to bury it.
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 03 May 2015 at 11:49pm
I much prefer a used vehicle, I've had new ones, boring.
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Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 12:49am
Getcherself a Chevy Silveray-do.
But seriously, check with your bank/CU and dealers to see what kind of financing you can get with your credit. I ended up paying about $500 over cash value for the only car I've ever borrowed money for.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 1:29pm
To piggyback on what Hairball!!! said, local credit unions usually have vehicles for sale that were repossessed due to non-payment. I remember I'd drive past a few nice newer trucks and jeeps at my credit union back home with stickers in the windows from the CU that were basically looking to pay off the balance. The CU would usually finance it to a new buyer for ultra-low rates anyway as sitting on the vehicle did NOTHING for them, but getting a monthly installment on a loan for it did.
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 6:24pm
Wait until this fall and get a new Colorado with the 2.8l turbo diesel.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 10:14pm
Eville wrote:
Wait until this fall and get a new Colorado with the 2.8l turbo diesel. |
I really really like the new ZR2. I had the same thought today.
Thank you everyone else for your input.
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 10:52pm
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I checked out the new Colorado at the local auto show, and I was impressed with everything except the back seat. My dad is in the market for a new/new to him truck and he needs a dog kennel to be able to fit into the back seat when it's folded up. Chevy's have some goofy plastic foundation thing under the back seat that basically takes away most functionality when the rear seat is folded up. Kind of a bummer.
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 04 May 2015 at 11:13pm
I had an 06 Taco from 06-2012. I never had any real complaints other than the outside temperature gauge/compass quit working. My only other complaint was the price I paid for mine would have covered a full sized truck at the time (but my Taco was fully loaded, so it's my own fault). It held its value rather well when I traded it in too. If you are going to be shopping around for a while get a small loan through a bank or get some credit cards. Maybe you can help get your score high enough to get a good APR. My credit union has been offering 2.39 for a while now.
------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Posted By: Reb Cpl
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 8:12am
impulse418 wrote:
Well, I technically need a 4x4, but not necessarily a new truck. My credit isn't the greatest, and haven't used credit in the last 6 years... I would like to help change that by having a car payment.
I don't want a car payment, nor do I need a new vehicle. But I have never owned a new vehicle and figure if I do get one, buy a vehicle that'll I'll keep until I have to bury it.
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That's exactly where I was a year or so ago- having my trusty old Subaru blow the timing belt was sort of a blessing in disguise because it forced me into buying something I'd have to make payments on and help bolster my credit, which took a bat to the face over the two years I was un and under employed.
I didn't get a NEW car, but still wishing to preserve the longevity of the one I did buy, I also picked up another clunker for my every day, around town stuff.
So now, the newer fusion I bought and will be making payments on for a very long time (thanks to a lousy interest rate due to toilet credit) is our primary family car while I beat the daylights out of my old Mitsubuishi Lancer with 230K miles on it on my back and forth to work.
I can't offer any advice on trucks- The closest thing I ever had to one was a Chevy Blazer, which was a POS from the word 'go.' Literally the only time I had no issues with it was the two weeks we drove across country in it and met Rambino and PCF.....(my wife still talks about him, I very nearly came home alone I think)
After that it was nothing but trouble. Transmission, Fuel pump, electrical.....it was crap.
Hell, the minivan I drove in high school was more reliable and a better 'work' vehicle when I did construction than the damn blazer was.
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 11:01am
Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 12:25pm
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My mom's blazer she had a long time ago began having problems at 100k miles. It became one issue after another and we just had to get something 'new to us' because it was a money sinkhole. From that day on, I warn people to never get a blazer. I think detrevni was thinking about getting one and I convinced him not to.
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 05 May 2015 at 12:31pm
procarbinefreak wrote:
I checked out the new Colorado at the local auto show, and I was impressed with everything except the back seat. My dad is in the market for a new/new to him truck and he needs a dog kennel to be able to fit into the back seat when it's folded up. Chevy's have some goofy plastic foundation thing under the back seat that basically takes away most functionality when the rear seat is folded up. Kind of a bummer. |
If it's the same on the new ones as it is on my 05, that's the spare tire tool kit. It can be removed with a couple of bolts. I'm still on the fence about trading mine in for a new diesel model in a year or keeping mine until it falls apart. Right now mine is at the perfect age where it still runs good and is reliable but is still old enough that I can take it off road and not care if it gets a scratch or a ding. It will really depend on what repairs it needs over this coming year and the final specs of the 2.8.
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 11:29am
procarbinefreak wrote:
I checked out the new Colorado at the local auto show, and I was impressed with everything except the back seat. My dad is in the market for a new/new to him truck and he needs a dog kennel to be able to fit into the back seat when it's folded up. Chevy's have some goofy plastic foundation thing under the back seat that basically takes away most functionality when the rear seat is folded up. Kind of a bummer. |
I've got a '14 F-150 with a crew cab and my back seat is HUGE. The amp under one of the seats takes up a little bit of room, but I still think I could about fit a twin mattress back there.
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 9:15pm
I'm still rocking Subaru, my latest acquisition is a 1997 JDM spec Forester, only 56k kilometres, which is like 34k miles.
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Posted By: RoboCop
Date Posted: 07 May 2015 at 10:31pm
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Interesting wheels. Who makes them?
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:01am
Enkei: nt03+m
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 1:29pm
RoboCop wrote:
Interesting wheels. Who makes them? |

Subie gold son!
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 29 August 2015 at 10:05am
Sold my car. My original budget was 6k, it seems to be slowly rising... Is now around 10k
Now I'm wanting a 98-02 F250 with the 7.3 diesel and 4x4
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Posted By: procarbinefreak
Date Posted: 29 August 2015 at 4:42pm
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I really really want to find a piece of crap truck on craigslist to take hunting this year. I just have no place to park an extra car right now....
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 29 August 2015 at 5:59pm
Trucks are gargantuan expensive.
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 30 August 2015 at 1:54am
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If you buy one of the new luxury trucks, yes. I paid $10k for my 05 Colorado. Even though I get no end of crap about not having a "real truck", I can't think of any reason why I would need something bigger considering I don't tow semi trailers. I managed to keep up with the lifted F150 through mud and water.
And I can't imagine ever needing to tow something that this won't, especially after having lived in Europe where things like this are an everyday occurrence.
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 30 August 2015 at 9:10pm
Oddly, I log back in here when in the market for a new vehicle. My hand-me-down Hyundai Santa Fe was apparently very combustable even in a 25mph crash (look at all the money I saved with minimum coverage!) Looking at Xterras since they can pull the boat and stuff, and trucks are more expensive or higher milage in my price range. At least I don't have kids or stuff like Reb. Also lost about $1500 worth of clothing and hiking gear that was in the car.
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 31 August 2015 at 4:07am
I can't see much other than the burned passenger compartment. How did you crash and where did the fire start? Does the Crown Victoria have a replacement for fiery rear end collisions, or did the fire originate in the engine compartment? Oh yeah, glad you're ok
------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 01 September 2015 at 12:16pm
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Sleep deprivation finally caught up to me and I dozed off. The process of waking up looking at your shifter goes from "I'm in a car?" "Oh God I'm driving the car!" "No wait, I'm crashing it! AHHHHHH!" I drifted onto a soft shoulder and got sucked in, or jerked the wheel when I heard gravel and woke up. Coasted through some brush and got hung up on a stone wall, maybe a 20mph crash. I was very surprised/annoyed that the airbags deployed (pretty glad they didn't knock me out). I locked the car up and walked the mile or so home. The car seemed fine minus the airbags and being stuck, no fuel smell. The staties woke me up at about 4:30 a.m. to inform me that I could pick up my burnt shell of a vehicle at the tow yard. Fire appears to have started up front someplace. I'm thinking I took a stick through the radiator and the anti-freeze caught or I punctured the oil pan. No way to tell since the radiator itself was in ashes. It was in the middle of nowhere and pretty late so I doubt some kids found it and torched it. It was a Santa Fe, not a Crown Vic. It's now a cube. Note to self: get some sleep sometimes, buy better insurance.
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 02 September 2015 at 9:01pm
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So picked up a 2005 Xterra today, fuel level sending unit crapped out before I even got it in the driveway, full tank reads empty with SES light on. Will be covered by the dealer thankfully since I can't get a sticker with the light on and it requires dropping the fuel tank. Doesn't appear the radiator has been replaced ever so I'm going to bypass the tranny cooler tomorrow so it doesn't leak coolant into my transmission fluid when it goes. Will just replace the radiator when funds allow or add an external cooler. Dammit previous owner, Nissan would have fixed both of those issues just a few thousand miles ago and probably sent you repeated notices to do so. Here's me thinking a female previous owner would have just let the dealership do everything and not beat on the car like I undoubtedly will once it becomes a second vehicle.
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Posted By: Hairball!!!
Date Posted: 02 September 2015 at 11:53pm
rednekk98 wrote:
Fire appears to have started up front someplace. I'm thinking I took a stick through the radiator and the anti-freeze caught or I punctured the oil pan. No way to tell since the radiator itself was in ashes. |
ATF is super flammable, maybe you punctured the trans pan. Normally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njvK-IRs9E4" rel="nofollow - these guys have their headers glowing, but it doesn't need nearly that much heat for ATF to go up.
Speaking of trucks, I bought this the other day.
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 03 September 2015 at 5:41pm
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Ooo. Pretty. A few people tried to talk me into a used Lexus since the original owners tend to get them factory serviced and they're pretty damn reliable. The Xterra uses a real frame and has awesome towing capacity for what it is (not that my boat is that heavy). Bypassed the transmission cooler today in about 15min, only broke one bolt that holds the skid plate on (D'oh!) so I don't have the Sword of Damocles over my head any longer with cross-contamination issues. Will still do an additional cooler in the Spring in case I get the chance to tow the boat more. The gauge worked today, disconnecting the battery shut off the SES light so now I just need to go through a few drive cycles and keep it over 1/4 tank to pass smog and get a real sticker tomorrow or Tuesday. Here's hoping I can pay this thing off soon enough and have enough cash to mod it to my liking. I missed out on a silver 2002 S/C offroad version with a 5-speed by a few hours with lower miles than this. Was also a North Carolina car that had never seen salt. 2nd generation has a powerful enough engine the SC isn't needed. Again, some lady bought the car, wasn't there a bit on The Office about Xterras being women's cars? Whatever, Jeeps are too primitive for a daily driver for me.
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 04 September 2015 at 4:22am
Why you no FJ? I like the Xterras for a long time. Couldn't afford one at the time, and by the time I had the money for one I liked the Tacoma more.
------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Posted By: rednekk98
Date Posted: 04 September 2015 at 11:33pm
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I thought I wanted an FJ, then I sat in in one and checked out the rear visibility and heard about the frame issues. I would take a Tacoma in a heartbeat but the few I could find in my price range had too many miles on them. The Xterras were often soccer mom cars and well maintained, for the same price I could probably find a Tacoma from 1995 that had been rebuilt a few times by actual rednecks who over-value them. sure, the insurance is cheaper for a truck, but I find an SUV to be a better daily driver. So far, the Xterra is a good choice. It has room to put stuff inside of it, and if I want to camp somewhere I can just fold the seats down and roll out the Thermarest if it's too rainy for a tent. Also, I won't be that guy with a pickup that everyone bothers when they need stuff moved.
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 05 September 2015 at 7:29am
So.. I had a Reb moment last night.
I have awful luck with women. I met a girl on Tinder, and made plans for last night. For reference, I haven't been on a date in over two years.
Rushed home, showered, left, and had the tread separate on my trusty F150. Destroyed the bed of my truck and the tailpipe. The bedside is all warped and the tread impacted the underside so hard that the bed it lifted the inside of the bed. Girl has no interest in me whatsoever now.
I say my truck didn't like her, but I still feel crappy about it.
EDIT: didn't carry spare, spare is different size anyway.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 05 September 2015 at 5:40pm
rednekk98 wrote:
for the same price I could probably find a Tacoma from 1995 that had been rebuilt a few times by actual rednecks who over-value them. |
Truth. They are asking nearly double the KBB in my area for Tacomas.
I'm still in the market, have about $10k saved up so far.
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 09 September 2015 at 12:58pm
I just got a new Silverado 1500 double cab 5.3l V8 w/ the Detroit Tigers All-Star package. Fully loaded, 22" alloy rims, navigation, only thing missing is a tonneau cover (old truck was long bed so I need to get a short bed version). All for the low low price (NOT) of $46k. It's a hell of a ride even if a bit pricey. Will try to remember to get pics up when I get home from work. I'm moving to NC in the coming weeks and didn't want to make a bad first impression with my rusty '01 2500. Was definitely sad to see my first truck drive away though.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 09 September 2015 at 3:16pm
Bunkered wrote:
I just got a new Silverado 1500 double cab 5.3l V8 w/ the Detroit Tigers All-Star package. Fully loaded, 22" alloy rims, navigation, only thing missing is a tonneau cover (old truck was long bed so I need to get a short bed version). All for the low low price (NOT) of $46k. It's a hell of a ride even if a bit pricey. Will try to remember to get pics up when I get home from work. I'm moving to NC in the coming weeks and didn't want to make a bad first impression with my rusty '01 2500. Was definitely sad to see my first truck drive away though. |
You paid over 2x what my 2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium w/ all weather package and satellite radio ran me.
Also, NC is Ford Country.... ;)
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 09 September 2015 at 3:40pm
I hear you, but I should have noted that this was sticker price. Actually got it for closer to $35k. Also, price wasn't really an issue. Just an "I want" kind of thing. First time I've ever been able to say that (and feels less snobby than when someone else says it lol). :)
I would probably never make it to NC if I bought a Ford since most of my family works for GM and are fiercely brand loyal. Employee pricing (and loyalty for next vehicle) FTW.
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 09 September 2015 at 7:18pm
The one thing I do NOT like about the truck is the tube steps. I am used to driving a 2500 without them, so I just find myself brushing my leg up against them on the way out of the truck and getting my pants dirty. That and I miss seeing the wife try to jump into the passenger seat.
This thing just feels/looks absolutely solid, and gets 21+ MPG in a full-size pickup. I especially like how they turned almost everything into a discrete storage area, including a couple of seperate and locked compartments just out of my reach as a driver. Coincidence? I did actually like the F-150 I test drove, but didn't care for the interior of the vehicle at all. It just didn't feel right, and seemed loud in the cabin for something brand new.
I will have to look into NC being Ford country though. I didn't see a single GM dealership down there now that I think about it.



*I guess Facebook URLs are too long for the forum to handle.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 10 September 2015 at 9:33am
My dad has a Silverado like that, (minus infotainment system) and he likes everything about it except the mileage. Of course, he was driving a Colorado prior to that, so light compact truck vs full-size means he's used to getting better mileage. I tried to get him to go with a Diesel, especially since he's mainly doing long trips and hauling his boat around, but he is leery of diesel for whatever reason.
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 10 September 2015 at 10:25am
My dad has a 3500HD dually that runs on diesel and he absolutely swears by it. Granted he's pulling a 35 foot fifth wheel. Nothing like the stability of a dually and the torque of a diesel to haul big loads.
I wanted to wait it out until the new Colorado with turbo-diesel came out but needed to make a vehicle change ASAP. Didn't want to try and sell a rusty Michigan truck down in NC where there is apparently no rust on ANYTHING.
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 10 September 2015 at 1:14pm
On the beach there sure as heck is rust, EVERYWHERE. But in most of the rest of the state, there's little rust because they don't have enough snow or ice (normally) to require salting and sanding like you get up your way.
That said, the good thing about NC is that even a truck that doesn't run is worth at least $2k every day of the week. My brother-in-law sold his old Ford Ranger (1996 model year I think) with a non-functioning transmission for $2k within 4 hours of posting the ad in the paper.
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 10 September 2015 at 3:47pm
Tallen: the one stop shop for info on.... anything. :) The no rust comment stemmed from the multiple 20+ year old vehicles I saw around that were spotless. Even the beaters seemed rust-free. Michigan, in comparison, you'll see 5 year old cars rusting out because of all the crap they put on the roads in winter. No snow will be a new one... I almost can't wait to be the crazy Yankee running around in shorts and t-shirt in January.
I made out pretty well on the old truck as it was paid $5k 3 years ago and sold it for $7k last week. But I know a guy who has TWO trucks that fit into the not-running category. I will advise him not to sell them for scrap if what you're saying is true.
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Posted By: usafpilot07
Date Posted: 10 September 2015 at 4:21pm
The best thing is we stay in such a continued state of unpreparedness re; snow, that they never have salt. It's just dirt.
------------- Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Posted By: tallen702
Date Posted: 10 September 2015 at 11:23pm
The downfall to the unpreparedness for snow in NC and the other SE states is that when it DOES snow, and people are caught at work/school, your commute turns to hell because while YOU can certainly drive in the 1" of snow just fine, everyone else abso-freaking-lutely cannot do so.
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Posted By: Bunkered
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 1:08pm
I learned that a few years back on a trip home from Tennessee. Coming down the hill into Cincinnati there were trucks blowing past me doing 80+, then spinning out beforr they got to the bridge. Note to other drivers: when the guy from Michigan is doing 50mph in his 4WD truck with all weather tires, maybe you should follow suit.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 20 September 2015 at 2:09pm
Like I said earlier my credit it shot. I had a hard time believing I could even get financed, regardless of the down payment.
Found a 2014 Tacoma, Access Cab, 4x4 manual. Which is exactly what I was looking for. 41k miles, and all service done at the dealeship etc. They knocked down the price to 24k. I would need to put 8k down, and my payments would be 440 a month. Not surprising, because again, my credit is shot.
I walked away thankfully to think it over. Hopefully I can get them to drop the price further and i'll make them certify the truck.
Sigh, these dang luxury problems.
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 20 September 2015 at 2:28pm
What is the APR, and how many months is the loan? If the loan is not a 36 month loan you are getting hosed.
------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 20 September 2015 at 2:29pm
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16% for 72 months..... Sigh, back to craigslist.
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Posted By: Eville
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 2:09am
Damn. That's some next level hosing.
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 10:14am
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If I had bought the truck, I probably would have got a payday loan immediately after. That way I would feel I got a pretty good deal....
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 9:08pm
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I blew up my F150, and I've been using my dads F250 for my 160 mile commute.
I'm currently shopping 4WD beaters. I have my eye on a 1997 Explorer, 302, AWD (unfortunately), with 78k miles for $1800. Something has to be wrong with it.
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 25 September 2015 at 8:32pm
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latest picture of my forester, winter is coming so time to get winter tires on:
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 26 September 2015 at 11:12am
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I can't shake the Tacoma. I keep looking for used vehicles, but that dang truck is still lurking in the back of my mind. My plan is to pay it off in two years to knock down that interest as much as I can. But for someone who is debt free, there is a lot of fear of taking on debt. But I have always loved Tacomas. Sigh.
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Posted By: JohnnyCanuck
Date Posted: 26 September 2015 at 11:55pm
I never had a tacoma, but had a '90 4x4 toyota, one of my favourite vehicles, I still miss it.
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Posted By: deadeye007
Date Posted: 29 September 2015 at 4:17pm
I liked my 06 Taco. I kept it for 6 years before changing to a full sized truck. There is not that big of difference in gas mileage between the Taco and a full sized truck anymore.
------------- Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Posted By: impulse418
Date Posted: 06 October 2015 at 9:45am
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I am the new owner of a 2003 4x4 Suburban. Was hanging out my buddies parents house (I rarely see him, see them way more often) The mentioned they were selling the bus, I snagged it. Original owners, very well mechanically maintained, 125k miles, only problem is the sun cracked front leather seats. $5500.
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Posted By: SSOK
Date Posted: 06 October 2015 at 10:23am
I too bought a new whip. A bit of a beater, but I bought a 1999 Mercury Mountaineer for $2300. 80k miles, 302 V8, AWD (boo, no 4x4), and a bunch of little broken things. I like the bugger though.
The 302 may possibly be a donor engine for my Mustang one day. The Explorer V8s are the best Ford smallblocks.
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