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Questions to the Forum Youth

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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 March 2007 at 7:31pm
Curious on the social leanings here and just wondering:

1 Would you accept a additional 30% tax on your income to provide universal healthcare for all americans?

2. Would you accept a additional 10% tax on yout income to provide universal education through secondary level for all americans.

These taxes would be in addition to the current tax schedules. (approximately 30% to include income, state, sales, etc)

So that would leave you with only approximately 30% of your income to you, but you would have health care, and education. Is that the system you would prefere?
(check european tax schedules for standardized social benifits)

3. Should universal health care standard be determined for lifestyle, for example if you smoke, drink, practice unsafe sex, and make personal lifestyle decesions that are harmfull to your health should you recieve more benifits, or less based on personal lifestyle?

4. Should personal health vices be higher taxed (alcohol, tobacco, video games (eye strain), music (hearing loss), etc?

5. Should healthcare be limited to two children per mother, in order to keep it manageable, if not what would be a practical financial limit?

6. Should energy be rationed, electricity, gasoline, fuel oil etc, in order to control consumption and pricing, as well as universal availability?

7. Should individual and family housing be limited in size in order to be more efficient and fair in energy consumption?

Just seeing where we are here on the Socialist meter.



Edited by oldsoldier - 28 March 2007 at 7:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bj.elder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 7:33pm
universal healthcare FTL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bj.elder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 7:34pm
BUT, if there is one thing i've learned from politics, is that you get absolutely NOWHERE trying to discuss these things. sure its fun to argue but in the end all you do is get wrapped up in it and always wind up getting upset.

to me its easier to sit on the sidelines and worry about the things i CAN control. (serenity prayer anyone? serenity to accept the things i cannot change)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 7:47pm
1+2: The issue is slightly more complex than simply putting a number on it. Are we talking combined federal and state taxes (Which vary wildly)? And how is this tax levied? I could support an increased sliding scale tax, but not an across the board 30% increase.

Also, taxation rates in Europe leave more than 30% of income, as far as I know.

3.If I am correct, a universal healthcare plan as currently in place in other nations does not entitle you to unlimited coverage, am I right?

4. Taxed at the retail level, perhaps to a limited extent. On the one hand, these things create additional burdens on the system, but if the policies go too far, it can be seen as a limitation of choice.

5. I see no reason to look at this as a "per house" deal. There is no reason to punish the child in a situation where they have no control over their environment.

6. No. However, we need more stringent efficiency regulations.

7. No, energy is a commodity, to be bartered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:00pm
the forum youth doesn't have enough patience to do the survey.

tl;dl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:01pm

Having a bad day OS?

None of the questions you've provided are black and white enough for a yes/no question. And there are lots of questions like these that could be turned against the conservative point of view (which BTW I consider myself very conservative),i.e. Would You Consent Your Tax Dollars Going to a War You Do Not Support?...

Taxation is a complicated issue-one that is exploited more often than explained.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:09pm


1. No.
2. No.
3. No universal healthcare eliminates this question.
4. Maybe tobacco and alcohol, but not music or video games. I think marijuana should be legalized and heavily taxed.
5. Once again, not having socialist healthcare eliminates this question.
6. No.
7. No.



Edited by phillll227 - 28 March 2007 at 8:09pm



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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:21pm

As pointed out, this is once again a significant over-simplification of everything.

For one thing, if I paid those taxes for universal healthcare and education, I wouldn't have to pay the 20k+/year that I am paying for health insurance now, and I wouldn't have to pay to send my kids to college. 

It's not like these things are free now, and they would suddenly become expensive when they became universal.  There are several studies claiming that we actually pay MORE per capita for health coverage in the US than many universal-coverage countries.

So just adding it on is flat out incorrect.

But - I will suggest that I voluntarily live in Wisconsin, which has one of highest tax burdens in the country.  Our state income tax is 7.5%, and our property taxes are very high as well.

Somehow, my head has not exploded.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

 

Somehow, my head has not exploded.

But it might when OS breaks the record for number of redundant political threads started in one day.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:28pm
Moreover, I would suggest that asserting that desiring universal healthcare/education is "socialist" is too simplistic.  There are many reasons for desiring one or both of those that have nothing to do with socialism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:41pm
Now you're hating on socialists? It never ends.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:43pm
I like that when I drove my friend to the hospital a few months ago it was nothing out of his pocket. When you're in pain and suffering, the last thing you want to be doing is shelling out cash.

You seem stuck in the sixties.



1. I am a Canadian who currently shells out whatever the system costs. It doesn't matter to me, it's been in place before I can remember, it's nothing off my back.

2. Well, this is done in Europe. I do think that it is a little too much because people like me would abuse it.

3. Some people are forced into lifestyles that they do not want. You have to realize that the needy need more help then the wealthy.

4. Never.

5. No, who even has more than two in this day and age?

6. This I am not sure about.

7. It couldn't hurt.


Edited by Hitman - 28 March 2007 at 8:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:52pm
20K in healthcare annually.....really poor HC plan there troop. See if you enlisted and retired it would be FREE...............everything has its price, my price for free health care was time.

Da momma still pays into the City of Lincoln plan, but I believe it is only like $47.00 every two weeks, government employees go figure, and we still use it for minor things instead og the lines and time at the VA or tri-care fiasco.

I just want an option...believe me "socialized" medicine like the VA and Tri-care is just a fiasco to partake in. Never see the same doc twice in a row, Primary Care physician appointments impossible to get, walk in sick, care nurse hands you a bucket of medications and gives you an appointment (hopefully that week). Unless you are at deaths door, care is better at the local LinCare clinic, staffed by non-government employees.

Edited by oldsoldier - 28 March 2007 at 8:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:54pm
Your point?
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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:58pm
hit send before finished...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

20K in healthcare annually.....really poor HC plan there troop. See if you enlisted and retired it would be FREE...............everything has its price, my price for free health care was time.

I just want an option...believe me "socialized" medicine like the VA and Tri-care is just a fiasco to partake in. Never see the same doc twice in a row, Primary Care physician appointments impossible to get, walk in sick, care nurse hands you a bucket of medications and gives you an appointment (hopefully that week). Unless you are at deaths door, care is better at the local LinCare clinic, staffed by non-government employees.
So, your real problem isn't with socialized healthcare itself, just how it's being implemented for veterans?
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 9:03pm

Ah.

I agree that the VA, from my understanding, is not a model we want to expand.  I rather like my expensive health care (self-employed, so I pay double), and would very much like to keep it.

But other countries have managed better single-payer systems than the VA.  Simply because the VA is awful doesn't mean that it has to be that way.  Nor do we have to copy what others have done.  I am sure that a market-based approach would be welcomed. 

The bottom line is that there are millions of Americans, including millions of children, that have no health care coverage whatsover - and that is bad and wrong for a whole host of reasons.  It is frankly simply an unacceptable state of affairs.

So to answer your first question - would I accept some additional taxation if it meant 100% health coverage, at least to a minimal level, of all Americans? 

Absolutely.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 9:07pm
I just see the current VA and Tri-care mix as the potential issues any nationalised health care system will encounter, and possible more compounded problems due to a larger beaurococy(sp) required for the scale of that exercise.

The experiment is inplace with the VA and Military Health Care systems, is it working efficiently as a government entity, that is the question, and from the current political attacks and GAO reports, it appears not to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 9:25pm
1. No
2. No, the majority of the youth is full of morons and they don't give a damn.
3. Yes, if you do harmful things to your body, you don't deserve universal health care
4. Yes, but not for petty things such as video games or music
5. No - what should it be? Not sure, maybe something a system like you mentioned above, where it depends on life styles
6. No
7. Yes - allow more land for businesses, farms, etc. Hell, maybe prevent eminent domain from stealing land.

Edited by ¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤ - 28 March 2007 at 9:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 9:31pm
All I'll really say is that I would in no way approve of only receiving a third of my income.

If we could do something about the half-a-trillion dollars a year spent on the military, we could do a lot--including nationalized health care.

Frankly, I don't really feel a need to drop bombs everywhere, it doesn't help anyone, and it certainly hasn't been helping us.
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