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When Socialized Medicine Fails: |
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tallen702 
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 Topic: When Socialized Medicine Fails:Posted: 05 March 2009 at 12:14pm |
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Story From the UK
In short, the NHS in the UK is banning certain top of the line cancer medications due to their cost to the National Healthcare System. In short, they're too expensive. This is the same argument that many people use about the denial of coverage under traditional private insurance policies to push for a nationalized health care system. |
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carl_the_sniper
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 12:30pm |
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What a stupid thing to do. I'd still trust the government a million times over before i'd trust a private company such as the insurance companies that you guys have in the us. Edited by carl_the_sniper - 05 March 2009 at 12:35pm |
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oldpbnoob
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 12:38pm |
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Mack
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:01pm |
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Hey, why don't we have an NHS here in the states?
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agentwhale007
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:02pm |
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And as has been brought up in the Fark thread many times, there are still private medical service providers available in the U.K. that someone in that position could have had, if they had money.
This doesn't come down to private vs. national healthcare. This comes down to if you, the individual, are rich or poor. |
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oldpbnoob
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:07pm |
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So.. NHS could be likened to Natural Selection? Kind of ironic that the people it would be supposedly helping, it is actually letting die........ Heeeyyyy!!
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jmac3
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:10pm |
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I think it could be likened to exactly what we have now except better? Instead of only poor people getting "free" care, everyone does. Then if you have the money you can get other things like this medicine not covered by the government. |
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Que pasa?
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oldpbnoob
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:13pm |
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I like the idea of letting poor people die better. That is my stance and you wil not change it.
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Mack
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:15pm |
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So basically, it's exactly like we have except that the government pays for some care for people that could afford it. Which means the poor still die and we waste government money. |
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jmac3
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:16pm |
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But poor people are like sidewalk comedy? Why would you want that to end?
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Que pasa?
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oldpbnoob
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:17pm |
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And good doctors leave the profession, because they can no longer afford it.
Stop making sense, you are distracting my trolling.
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jmac3
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:18pm |
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Ummm no. What about the people that aren't poor, don't qualify for a state healthcare plan, and still can't afford it? |
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Que pasa?
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Mack
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:26pm |
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I would think that not being able to afford basic medical care would be indicative of being "poor." But either way, if we had our own NHS they could get all the stuff free they wanted except the expensive stuff that they actually needed to prolong their lives so either way they die.
Poor dead guys. . . . or is that dead poor guys?
Sorry. Edited by Mack - 05 March 2009 at 1:27pm |
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jmac3
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:29pm |
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I was not able to afford insurance. I did not qualify for Masshealth with what I did make. I am not the only one I am sure. EDIT: this medicine is not saving lives. It is prolonging lives of terminally ill patients. There is a difference. Double EDIT: I don't agree with it not being covered. Edited by jmac3 - 05 March 2009 at 1:30pm |
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Que pasa?
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Mack
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:31pm |
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So . . . what you're telling me is that the current level of socialized/government run medical care is already cutting costs and leaving those unable to afford medical care without said care? |
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oldpbnoob
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:32pm |
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It has been about 5 years since I had to have private health insurance. At that time though, I was able to get coverage for my wife, child and myself for around $250.00/month. Granted it was not great insurance, but would have protected us in case of something major. I don't know how much more it would have been with two more kids, but I can't imagine it would be that much more. If someone is not "poor" and can't afford $250/month for health insurance, it seems like something is wrong. Maybe people need to cancel the cable, only carry one car payment, live in a smaller house, quit smoking/drinking or eat less. I guarantee somewhere in there, they could find the money. I would venture a guess that part of the problem is so many people don't want to sacrifice to be able to have insurance. Prioritize |
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usafpilot07
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:36pm |
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First rule of Economics: There is no such thing as a free lunch. |
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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Rambino
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:40pm |
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Costs have gone up a lot in the last few years. I pay for my own health insurance. Wife and two kids. Good, but not platinum-plated health insurance. $1765/month.
I am self-employed, so I pay basically double what our employees pay, but it is still an obnoxiously large number.
More importantly, it is representative of what a self-employed person might pay. And the self-employed (aka "small businesses") are the largest groups of those that are uninsured.
Currently in the US, the truly poor are covered by Medicare or equivalent. State and federal employees are covered by state/federal plans. Most full-time employees are covered by employer-based plans.
The gap is in small businesses (owners and employees), part-time workers, and entrepreneurs. Those are the folks that are not covered. Hard-working people all, and generally doing the type of capitalistic undertaking that we want to encourage. But their employers do not provide healthcare insurance, and they cannot afford to obtain private insurance.
That is the main problem with the US system - lack of coverage. The quality of care is generally good, but there are millions of Americans with no coverage at all.
Beyond that, there are issues with transfers, gaps, existing conditions, and so forth - those are important issues as well, but not to the level of the uninsured.
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jmac3
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 1:40pm |
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oldpbnoob.
I was making working 35 hours a week part time at my job at $10 an hour. Had I been full time(which i ended up doing and got insurance). Oh and full time wasn't a pay raise. It was just 7 more hours a week. That comes out to MAYBE $1200 a month. $200 a month=Car payment $200 a month=Insurance Rent in my town=like $800. Less with roommates and less if in a worse part of town. I do believe that equals $1200. Oh and USAF. That is why I put the quotes around free. Edited by jmac3 - 05 March 2009 at 1:41pm |
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Que pasa?
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oldpbnoob
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Posted: 05 March 2009 at 2:41pm |
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Jmac. You aren't going to like my answer. First off, I would actually consider anyone making $14,400/year poor. I also havent a clue why you would have a $200 car payment every month if you only made this much money AND were trying to live on your own. Move back in with your parents, get a cheaper car, or take the bus. Also, how can you expect to only work 35 hours per week and afford to live where you have an $800/month mortgage? Again, move back home, or get a roomate(s). You have pretty much pointed out exactly what I said, people do not want to make sacrifices in order to afford to have insurance. Get another job. When I was your age, I was working 2 jobs. I averaged 70 hours per week. And to be honest, I didn't have insurance. Truth be told, I didn't have insurance once I moved from home until I was nearly 25. And the only reason I got it was the company I began working for in my first "real job" offered it as part of my salary.
As for small busines owners, I do think it sucks for them. Perhaps some sort of National system would be good for them. I don't know to be honest, but I don't think that it makes sense to do an across the board, government subsidized healthcare system for everyone.
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agentwhale007 wrote: