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Cockers |
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Gulfster 
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Joined: 10 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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 Topic: CockersPosted: 15 March 2006 at 5:44pm |
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Can some please explain the story behind autocockers/cockers to me? I know this isn't a cocker forum but a lot of you guys are quite knowlegable (and some others... ). Anyway, I've just been looking around the net and reading about them, but it's still kinda unclear. I think autocockers, cockers, and anything along the lines of having cocker in its name is the same type of gun. I've also seen different companies making cockers, does this mean a cocker is just a style of gun or are these just kinda aftermarket companies that modify the gun (like WGP?). Also, from what I read cockers seem to be a really cool/good/unique mechanical gun. Whats the story behind this? Thanks, sorry if the post is confusing.
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Snake6
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 5:45pm |
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Do you want a history?
A cocker normally refers to any closed bolt marker... |
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Gulfster
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 5:51pm |
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Sure, a history would be cool. So any closed bolt marker, eh? Is there a main cocker that is considered to be the best or a company that is considered the best (like WGP?). Could you explain exactly what a closed bolt marker is and/or give an example (you can use technical terms, i'm not retarted, just uneducated on these guns). So is an autococker the same as a cocker? |
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choopie911
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 5:59pm |
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Enos Shenk
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:01pm |
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History eh?
Bud Orr produced a pump gun called the Sniper, when semi guns started to come out he paid a visit to Glenn Palmer, "borrowed" the idea for the autococking pneumatics, and bolted the parts on a Sniper and called it the AutoCocker. A cocker is nothing more than an automated pump gun. In fact pull the front block off the gun, bolt on a pump kit, and you have a pump. |
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Rambino
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:05pm |
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Cocker is short for Autococker. "Autococker" is trademarked by WGP, who also made the original autocockers. Other companies also make knockoff "autococking markers", sometimes affectionately described as "fockers" - fake cockers. The original autococker was invented by Bud Orr, founder of WGP, although many think he stole the design from Glenn Palmer, of Palmer Pneumatics. A quick inspection will show that Palmer guns are very similar in design to autocockers. As a result of this dispute over who invented what, WGP has been unable to stop people from making fockers, although WGP (now owned by K2) is enforcing their rights to the name "Autococker". Autocockers are "closed bolt", yes, but so are many others. It is difficult to say exactly what makes a cocker a cocker, but the basic mechanism is that the trigger does two things. First, it releases the hammer that operates the valve. Second, when you pull the trigger further, air is redirected to a 2-way ram that cocks the gun and opens the bolt. When you release the trigger, the ram closes the bolt. Thus closed-bolt - the gun is now cocked with the bolt closed. All the pneumatics are stuck on the front end of the gun. This is because autocockers are essentially converted pump guns. Think of a pump gun that uses pneumatics to run the pump arm, and you have an autococker. They are favored with tinkerers, since they are very modular and easily customized.
EDIT - I need to learn to type faster. Edited by Rambino - 15 March 2006 at 6:06pm |
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raflexjrsr
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:15pm |
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On the facefull mag they show a trilogy sf and says it is open bolt, though they say it has "cocker accuracy"  Edited by raflexjrsr - 15 March 2006 at 6:16pm |
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Gulfster
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:18pm |
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tinkerers... sounds like my kinda gun. So WGP is the way to go for a cocker. I know the triligy is a cheaper autococker, but is it fine for someone on a low budget who is only playing woodsball with his buddies? Also, can the ccm pump kit (any better pump kit to reccomend?) be put on any autococker (including the triligy)? With the pump kit on an autococker you basicly have a gun that can be either pump or converted back to autococking, right? Assuming the WGP sniper can only be a pump, is it best to get an autococker and switch from there if you want to? Thanks.
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Gulfster
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:20pm |
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Eww... just read this post. I guess if the triligy isn't a real closed bolt it'd be best to get the real deal. |
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Rambino
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:27pm |
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Trilogies are made by WGP, and are "authentic". But they are not as modular and tinkerable as real cockers, which is why they are cheaper. There is nothing wrong with non-WGP cockers, necessarily - as long as the parts are fully interchangeable (which most are). Some fockers are very nice indeed, like Chipley cockers. As to the "closed bolt accuracy" - that's just hype. Closed bolt does not make anything more accurate. Cockers are pretty consistent in their velocity (=accurate), this is true, but that has nothing to do with the closed bolt nature of the mechanism. |
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Gulfster
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:31pm |
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What other companies make decent fockers? remaining questions to be anwswered: "Also, can the ccm pump kit (any better pump kit to reccomend?) be put on any autococker (including the triligy)? With the pump kit on an autococker you basicly have a gun that can be either pump or converted back to autococking, right? Assuming the WGP sniper can only be a pump, is it best to get an autococker and switch from there if you want to? " |
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Rambino
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:35pm |
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I wouldn't bet on the pump kit fitting on a Trilogy without serious work. The main thing that is different about the Trilogy is that it has an integrated 3-way. The pump kit replaces the whole front end, including the 3-way.
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Gulfster
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:38pm |
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Ok, I guess the trilogy is out of the question now. Now I just need some recommendations of some fockers to consider. Thanks
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Rambino
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:41pm |
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Dye also makes quality guns. Don't get System X (non-standard, questionable quality). Other than that, not so sure... |
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Gulfster
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 6:51pm |
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Well... chipley and dye are both quite expensive. I was thinking more along the line of a cocker cheaper than WGP, but still decent (with mostly interchangable parts). Something where I not paying for the name on the gun, ya know?
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TRAVELER
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 7:20pm |
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Action village is selling new vertical cockers for $200, cheaper than some trilogy models. Good used mechanical cockers by WGP can be found under $200 every day.
I've owned a couple vertical cockers, and a couple ANS cockers. The ANS guns are a good deal for the money as they come pretty much fully upgraded out of the box. Edited by TRAVELER - 15 March 2006 at 7:21pm |
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For I will wander to and fro,
I'll go where I no one do know, |
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You Wont See Me
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 7:27pm |
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I'm even learning things from this thread.
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A-5
E-Grip JCS Dual Trigger DOP X-CORE 8 stage x-chamber Lapco Bigshot 14" Beadblasted Optional setup: R/T Dead on Blade trigger |
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Enos Shenk
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 9:16pm |
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Just go to PB Nation and look through the buy/sell/trade forum. Theres TONS of cheap cockers on there that kids buy, then have to have the new uber 06 cocker (Thats exactly the same) and sell the old one for a huge loss.
IMHO, older cockers are king. Nothing beats a slider trigger. In fact if I could have any cocker I wanted, I would take a '99 STO. |
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Rambino
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 9:59pm |
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I also prefer old slider triggers. But giant caveat - anything older than a 2000 model will have different parts that are NOT interchangeable (completely, anyway) with 2000+ cockers. Parts for older cockers are harder to come by. If you are planning to tinker, I would recommend 2000 or newer. But like Enos said, you can get them cheap used. I paid about $175 for my 2002 WGP cocker, and that was two years ago. Between PBN and Ebay there is a ton of used cockers and cheap parts available. |
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Justice
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Posted: 15 March 2006 at 10:10pm |
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try an 03 cocker. Many in nice shape on ebay.
Yep someday you might see me running around the field with a brand new Chipley pump w/hammerhead barrel. Weeeeeeee! |
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Snake6 wrote: