The age old paintball range problem...

1. don't use gun powder to fire paintballs. You're just retarded if you do.
2. lighter paint won't go as far, since the paintball still has to leave the barrel going the same speed.
3. the whole football shaped paintballs, paintballs with fins, bullet shaped, has been suggested time and time again. It get shot down every time because of te fact, that a gun would have to be designed to use it.
4. You forgot spin. The flatline and Apex actually can add range. However, the paintball still slows down at a constant rate, meaning at long range it won't break.

So rather than trying to play sniper, just work on your tactics. Since those are variables that ARE in your control.

Bonte wrote: . . . so what do you think?

I think there are things you haven't considered.

For instance, E = 1/2mv^2 (where E = kinetic energy, m = mass and v =  velocity.)

Gravity affects all objects in the same manner.  In other words, two paintballs traveling at different velocities fired horizontal to the ground will fall at the same rate; the only difference is that one will travel farther than the other in the time it takes both to hit the ground.

With this in mind, consider that a standard paintball fired horizontal to the ground at 300 fps from 5 ft above the ground (average shoulder height) will travel approximately 113 ft before striking the ground.  Using the same ratio of velocity to distance* (300/113) it would require a velocity of around 565 fps to gain the extra 100 ft of range mentioned in the post above.

The weight of an average .68 paintball is approximately** 0.002 lb.

The weight of an average .48 paintball*** would be approximately**** 0.0007 lb.

A .68 paintball traveling at 300 fps therefore has around 90 ft/lbs***** of force.

A .48 paintball traveling at 565 fps would have around 112 ft/lbs of force.

The statements which follow regarding psi assume square hits on the target and that the contact surface of the paintball will achieve full expansion (up to the size of the round) before breaking:

Pounds per square inch (psi) of pressure from the hit can be determined by dividing the kinetic energy****** of the round by the size of the contact surface.

The force from the standard sized paintball is around 133 psi.

The force from the .48 paintball would be around 233 psi.  (Or the equivalent of a standard paintball moving at 397 fps.******)

the 300 fps limit was selected to prevent the breaking of small bones at close range and masks are certified for velocities of 300 fps or below.  Thus the idea carries some significant safety risks with it and would probably require multiple changes in the sport to be safely used.

Additionally:

• There is no guarantee that the smaller caliber paint would break at longer ranges.  The .40, .43 and .50 paint that is used in specialty markers (like the RAP series or the Splatmatic pistols and "shotguns") and blowguns already has a reputation for being "break proof."
• Of course it could be manufactured with a weaker shell, but then the question arises if it could handle being fired at over 500 fps.
• The lighter paint could also be more susceptible to the effects of crosswinds.
• This is a complaint I've heard from some RAP users; the paint is light enough to be easily affected by the wind but still large enough to offer a good cross section to catch the wind.

As for changing the shape of paintballs; several alternate shapes have been tried including ones with little fins and none have caught on.


*Probably not the most accurate way to figure this, but it's what I have available.  I did not figure in additional wind resistance that would be experienced throughout the flight of the faster paintball either.
**Very rough approximation. (I weighed a pound of paintballs, counted them and did some math.)
***I didn't know they made .48 paintballs.
****Extrapolated based on volume comparisons.
*****Kinetic energy is usually measured in Joules, but I'm not even going to try to bring the metric system into this.
******Full kinetic energy is used to simulate a worst case (close range) scenario.
*******Figured from the following formula with the known variables inserted:  158 = 1/2 * 0.002 * X^2

Edited Addition:

The Guy wrote: don't use gun powder to fire paintballs. You're just retarded if you do.

True; but I don't think he was advocating that.

The Guy wrote: lighter paint won't go as far, since the paintball still has to leave the barrel going the same speed.

Also true; as I pointed out, gravity is an equal opportunity force. I took his post to mean he wanted to fire at higher velocities with the smaller round.

The Guy wrote: the whole football shaped paintballs, paintballs with fins, bullet shaped, has been suggested time and time again. It get shot down every time because of te fact, that a gun would have to be designed to use it.

Yep, there's a reason RAP has started making .68 markers.

The Guy wrote: You forgot spin. The flatline and Apex actually can add range. However, the paintball still slows down at a constant rate, meaning at long range it won't break.

Have to disagree a bit on this one.  Balls fired from the backspin barrels actually retain velocity slightly (but not significantly) better than those fired from standard barrels.  They have the added advantage of allowing solid hits (thus increasing the chance of breakage) at ranges where other barrels can only get glancing hits because of the arc required to get the ball there in the first place.  At the longest ranges breaks are unlikely, but they allow a chance for hits (and the occasional break on a hard surface) that are not possible at all with other barrels.

The Guy wrote: So rather than trying to play sniper, just work on your tactics. Since those are variables that ARE in your control.

Good advice.  I will also add, just so there is no misunderstanding, the Flatline and Apex are not sniper barrels; they are however very good tools for suppressive fire.


Edited by Mack - 22 April 2008 at 11:48pm

DeTrevni wrote: notom66866 wrote: When I started playing paintball there was a place that used powder cartridges. They shot at something like 500-650 fps. The markers were uzi's. They had no accuracy beyond 20". Full auto though. It was pretty cool. The Model 85. And people think Rainmakers and Vectors are loud...

Those were the predecessors to Sim Round guns weren't they?

The Guy wrote: don't use gun powder to fire paintballs. You're just retarded if you do.

If you read my post carefully i was using points from all forms of ballistics...as i said i was trying to look at a paintball gun as a "gun" and looked at how "guns" receive better range throught velocity and bullet size....

 

I was suggesting a smaller bullet size keeping the 300fps velocity...the smaller bullet size would allow the round to travel furthur without arcing down....and yes there is a relation ship between bulletsize and travel...In the gun business larger bullets ar made for greater stopping power,...but in paintball stopping power isnt needed , therefor a smaller round would be better.

forget college... im comin here for physics class... whens the midterm again?

Ya thats it, model 85. The field had them set to semi auto with some kind of restricting bolt. But we learned that if you "tap" them repeatedly against something. the bolt came loose and you could fire full auto. You only had about 2 seconds of fire before you emptied the clip.

u need to think about how bad it would hurt having a bullet shape because a ball spreads force evenly bullet not so much

paintballa43708 wrote: u need to think about how bad it would hurt having a bullet shape because a ball spreads force evenly bullet not so much

That and you would be very limited to your "hopper" options.  Clip only I guess.

The Guy wrote: "Don't use gun powder to fire paintballs. You're just retarded if you do."

Stupid human tricks.

people complaining about range are those who are afraid to get closer to the action. I have absolutly no problems with paintball range when im running full speed 5 ft past another guy(even if im using the phantom).  
 i think id bunker people anyways, because "snipers" arent as cool as the guys who go in guns a blazin anymore.