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American Realiazations (Dune)

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Linus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 June 2005 at 11:57pm
Ok, lets continue it in here Dune.

No, I am not sayign we aren't capable of it.

But, we as a country, are not like that. There will never be a mass support to drag bodies around or torture people like they did in Somalia.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote entropy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 11:58pm
Sure there will. Lynchings?

Deindividuation is a powerful tool and affects everyone.


Edited by entropy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlentifulBalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 11:59pm
I'll lynch you!

sporx wrote:
well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 11:59pm
Ok, true, but like I said, never as a country.

Lynchings were mainly in the south, and mainly white.   But I see your point.



Plenti probably does want to lynch me...

Edited by Linus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 11:59pm

I think there would be. Taking in consideration that these people who committed the act followed the warlords because they were the sole providers. Taking these aspects, anyone working for the mafia would rightfully so fight the law in order to protect their superiors. Just as much, given the right setting and maybe a little different set of people instead of the law and the mafia, many Americans are not above doing the same.

Somalia as a country didn't drag those men, specific individuals fighting with the warlords did. You cannot generalize them to the rest of the population in that city.



Edited by Dune
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:01am

If it's alright, Linus, I'd like to get in on that-

A:) I agree with to an extent most of the time as you seem to be a fellow conservative

B:) I think you're wrong here. Just because we're American, there's alot of savage acts that go on here. Yes, I believe that Americans would gather to watch Osama Bin Laden dragged, raped, beaten, or whatever. I think they would do the same for alot of people. The only difference is that we're too lazy to go into the streets-they'd watch it on CNN.

*edit* sorry if I stole any points from anyone-it takes a while to get this stuff typed out



Edited by stratoaxe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:01am

We as a people also have not been in the same situations as they had; however, I would never put it past us.

However, with some deep reading, some of you may find incidents during the Revolutionary war when our countrymen had grossly displayed the bodies of fallen British soldiers.



Edited by Dune
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entropy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote entropy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:02am
College sports riots?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:21am

Rodney King riots?

The entire 1960's?

Slavery?

Code Red?

Verious vigilante groups over the years?

The Klan?

Abu Graib?

Death penalty?

Byrd?

Floggings?

Salem witch trials?

LAPD?

Prison executions?

Guantanamo Bay?

This country has a long illustrious history of lynching, public brutality, quasi-sanctioned violence, mass hysteria, and generally rude behavior.

The idea that "it couldn't happen here" is false, no matter what "it" is.



Edited by Clark Kent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:22am
Thanks for the ownage clark.
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entropy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote entropy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:23am
Sports riots outgun all of those flimsy examples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:57am

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 9:35am
Strato.. that's a soccer game in England.

Clark, your points are noted, but I was stating a MASS approval, like we saw in Somalia when our soldiers bodies were dragged throught the city and beat by half the city (The other have we killed ..maybe that why)

All those things you chose.. lets go one by one.

Originally posted by Clark Clark wrote:


Rodney King riots? Riots, not mass lynchings or executions...

The entire 1960's? Again.. riots

Slavery? Yes slavery = bad, and yes some torture, but the torture was never accepted widely by the o**edited**ry, just the south

Code Red?I don't know what that is, mind elaborating

Verious vigilante groups over the years? Again, I said WIDELY accepted

The Klan? Years ago, yes, they lynched people. When was the last lynching you saw?

Abu Graib? Most of the country was AGAINST what happened there.

Death penalty? Look at the name, PENALTY, it's a consenquence that happens if you do something in deserving of it. Also not widley accepted.

Byrd? Huh?

Floggings? Huh?

Salem witch trials? Keyword, SALEM, never widely accepted, only in that small area.

LAPD? You talking about the riots in the early 90's? Again, just riots, not widely accepted

Prison executions? Goes with death penalty

Guantanamo Bay? So, it's bad to hold our enemies inc aptoivity, is it?




Now you were probably mentioning those to show we are capable of bad stuff, but only a minority participated in those acts.

Edited by Linus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murdock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 9:51am

Dude, slavery was world wide, not just in the USA and has existed since like the begining of time. Then all of a sudden someone said "Oh no, its so horrible that some people are taking part in what is common practice and has been so through many an age."

By the way, the civil war had nothing to do with freeing slaves at first. That concept came to be because the South was handing the Norths arses to them on a silver platter, causing the masses to demand an end to the war. The North wasn't about to let the nation to be split in two so they searched for a common goal to rally the people into supporting the war, which was freeing the slaves.

Didn't you learn anything in school?

Oh, and no matter how "horrid" of a display the somalis showed by dragging the bodies of vanquished enemies was....its war. You again have to go back countless centuries and look at all the times a warrior has beheaded his foe and carried the "prize" around for all to see. Same thing, different era. And if you try to say "were more civalized than that now" they are a 3rd world nation, clearly not as civilized as many claim we as a race should be in this modern era. There should be no rules to open war....end of story. War is a horrid thing for a reason, and the more you sugar coat it with rules and crap, the more people die for stupid reasons and the less afraid lesser nations become at wageing it.

Robert E Lee said somthing to the extent..

It is a good thing war is so horrid, or else we should grow too fond of it.

This kind of stuff has been going on forever man, the ONLY reason we even catch wind of it is because of the media, who grows fat on exploiting things like this and twisting everyones mind to think what they want you to, act how they wish you to, and do what they tell you to.

Also, the human race is very capable of some of the darkest, most twisted and vile acts ever thought of. Society as a whole can be influinced to believe anything through propaganda and politics. All it takes is someone who knows how to speak to a crowd and razz the masses. Look at Nazi Germany, an entire nation twisted to believe one thing. The human mind is a very dangerous thing when unleashed in directions such as that, all it takes is a little guidance.



Edited by Murdock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:04pm
Linus, you're claiming that all of Somalia took part in dragging American bodies through the street. As Clark had stated, this is identicle to many of our actions in the past 200 years as well. We as a people would still do the exact same and have done the exact same in similiar situations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:07pm
If I stated all of somalia did it, I'm sorry, misphrased.

But the majority of Mogadshu did do it. And if we were in the same exact (keyword, exact) situation, everyone on earth would do it.

But thats what seperates us from the savages. We aren't in that situation. Yes, they are savages for doing that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:08pm

Nothing separates us from them, including an almost dictator-like leader.

However, the majority of Mogadishu didn't participate, that city is gigantic and only a couple of thousand fought against the soldiers. We are savages for the brutual treatment of our own people as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:12pm

Linus. 

Please stop making completely outlandish and unfounded claims as if they were "facts".

The population of Mogadishu is approximately 1,200,000 people.  By your statement AT LEAST 600,001 people participated in dragging a dead US soldier through the streets.

Ignoring for the moment the logistics involved (which would make this quite a feat), what on Earth makes you think this is true?

And you really should read up on the 60s, and on Jim Crow laws, and on slavery, and on American history in general.  Seriously.

You are wrong, Linus.  Very very wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:15pm
Clark, I really liked your example of the death penalty. It truly shows how uncivillized we are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:20pm

Not to divert...   But I actually support the death penalty, at least in theory (although the application leaves much to be desired).

I put that in because many outsiders view that as inhuman brutality - one man's brutality is another man's justice.  A little relativism is good for the brain.

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