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Military Pay...

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    Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:14pm
I have seen this before and know it's quite old, but I've never seen it posted before so I thought I'd give it a go.

Somebody has started to straighten some of these thoughtless and ungrateful people out. And I am even more grateful that it was someone serving in one of the branches of military.

Military paid too much ? You be the judge !
This is an Airman's response to Cindy Williams' editorial piece in the Washington Times about MILITARY PAY, it should be printed in all newspapers across America.

On Nov. 12, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise coming service members' way this year -- citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve.

A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this.

"Ms Williams:

I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account.

Checking my latest earnings statement I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40, after.

I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000 host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum... I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.

Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in our armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off of WIC and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN; I leave the choice of service branch up to you.

Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience." As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone -- obviously they've been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them.

Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor. Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it.


You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your opined piece.

But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it.


You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies.

And you, Ms. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? Rubbish!

A1C Michael Bragg Hill AFB AFNCC



Edited by Heres To You - 01 September 2007 at 7:14pm
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brivont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:33pm
She got owned!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:43pm
ha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:27pm
IMO a lot of military personal get paid sevral times what they are worth.

now dont get me wrong the low end enlisted ranks get paid crap base and have to work a lot of hours. but they get "bonuses" for just about everything.

once you get into mid to high E ranks and im guessing all officer ranks you work less and make more.... the military pay:work is inverse.

my step dads half retarded and works "tropical hours" (900-1300) 4-5 days a week. once a month he has to work a "24 hour shift" (gets to sleep and watch tv on base) but then they give him a day or 2 off after... hes making over $60,000 a year. most of which is tax free.

(base pay is a little over 35k i think so on paper his salary is 35,000 a year but he makes almost twice that.)

in my head...

it would suck to be lower ranked personal no question about that. as for the guy saying his job as a civi would pay 70k-80k hes either not qualified (maybe not enough experience) or hes not able to hold a civilan job. or he would go get it...

i would MUCH rather see fat trimmed off the top for the kids at the bottom rather than an overall pay raise.

the military and government in genral are far to inefficient to be given any more money.

i dont mean this to come off as an attack against military/government personal. more so towards the way it/they handle money. no argument i have heard saying the government is efficient or good with money can holds water...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man Bites Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/gipay.asp


I suspected that it would be fake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/gipay.asp


I suspected that it would be fake.


It's not fake. That just said Cindy Williams isn't the Laverne and Shirley actress. She is a different person. The actress keeps getting hate mail, but says she didnt do it.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oreomann33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 8:49pm
tl;dr

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 10:42pm

I don't see why that ends the thread.  The point is somebody wrote, the fact that it wasn't a celebrity doesn't take away from the point that someone still believes that...

 

Merc- I don't know, personally, my NCO's do alot of work.  They don't do as much physical work, but they definently put in their hours.  Regardless, the hours aren't really where I feel you earn your pay.  Leaving family, friends, girlfriends, and loved ones are where I feel you really should be cared for.  The fact that this "reporter" or "journalist" feels like were given more than we deserve shows she's never even spent half an hour of research in the "real" military...

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dye Playa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 10:50pm
what an idiot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

tl;dr



What does that mean ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

tl;dr



What does that mean ?


Too long; Didn't read. 

Loosely translated, he didn't feel it was worth his time to go through the entire article, but did take the time to share his feelings about the fact that it would have been a waste of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

tl;dr



What does that mean ?


Too long; Didn't read. 

Loosely translated, he didn't feel it was worth his time to go through the entire article, but did take the time to share his feelings about the fact that it would have been a waste of time.


Well then in that case

tl;dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2007 at 12:11am
Originally posted by merc merc wrote:

IMO a lot of military personal get paid sevral times what they are worth.

A peacetime military could conceivably be argued to be a complete waste of money.  However, not having a trained military available when the feces connects with the spinning wind machine is even more costly.

now dont get me wrong the low end enlisted ranks get paid crap base and have to work a lot of hours. but they get "bonuses" for just about everything.

True, there are quite a few bonuses available.  Reenlistment bonuses are used to entice service members to stay in certain hard to fill positions.  And let's not forget the $225 a month (target pay) that can be earned for spending time in areas where shooting at/blowing up people in uniform is considered an acceptable hobby.

once you get into mid to high E ranks and im guessing all officer ranks you work less and make more.... the military pay:work is inverse.

From personal experience, I can tell you that is a misperception.  Before I retired (as a senior NCO) my average work week was 60 hours and I was pretty much on continuous unofficial standby when I wasn't at work.  The majority of the officers I worked for had it worse. 

my step dads half retarded and works "tropical hours" (900-1300) 4-5 days a week. once a month he has to work a "24 hour shift" (gets to sleep and watch tv on base) but then they give him a day or 2 off after... hes making over $60,000 a year. most of which is tax free.

I'm curious to know where he worked.

(base pay is a little over 35k i think so on paper his salary is 35,000 a year but he makes almost twice that.)

Without knowing rank and time in service I can't say much about this.  However, that base pay would place him someplace between the fairly junior officer ranks and the mid to senior NCO level according to the 2007 active duty pay charts.  If he indeed has it that well, then I'm envious.  But I would suggest that if you do not have personal military experience that you not judge the entire service based on one person.

in my head...

it would suck to be lower ranked personal no question about that. as for the guy saying his job as a civi would pay 70k-80k hes either not qualified (maybe not enough experience) or hes not able to hold a civilan job. or he would go get it...

Of course other considerations could be that the individual who chose to stay in was qualified for the civilian job and was offered one of the aforementioned bonuses by the military because they knew that was the best way to retain the trained personnel they need.  On a side note, I always get a kick out of the assumption that someone must be in the military because they "can't make it" in the civilian world.  Every year there are thousands of military members who are sent back to the civilian world despite their education and training because they couldn't hack it in the military.

i would MUCH rather see fat trimmed off the top for the kids at the bottom rather than an overall pay raise.

Yes, I would just be enthralled to go into combat in a military that had gotten rid of/lost all of its experienced leadership.  And, as a citizen, that is what I would want defending my country. (sarcasm)

the military and government in genral are far to inefficient to be given any more money.

I agree that the government is inefficient.  The answer however is not to withhold all funds however; the answer is for us as voters to start demanding accountability.  Withholding all funds would be like using a shotgun to kill a mouse.  Yeah, you get the mouse, but you do a lot of damage as well.  On a side note, how do you feel about giving the government money for national healthcare?

i dont mean this to come off as an attack against military/government personal.

It did, but given that caveat on your part, I removed one of the harsher portions of my replies above.

more so towards the way it/they handle money. no argument i have heard saying the government is efficient or good with money can holds water...

If you have a problem with the way the military spends money, look at the people the voters send to Washington to control the purse strings.  Consider the military base closings that are planned/occurring right now.  You have representatives all over the map trying to interfere with the BRAC (Base Realignment and Closure) Commission decisions.  This interference is not based on national security needs (the military determined that when they took part in the BRAC selection process) but on the fact that closed bases don't "bring home the bacon."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2007 at 2:20am
living in chesapeake VA i know a lot of people in the navy,coast guard, and government work. for the most part i hear/see that they dont have to do as much work as someone in a comparable civilan position.

im all for hazard duty pay for people in harms way... however a few years ago when the crap with hati started to go bad my step dads cutter went to drop off some refugees. they stopped well off shore and sent a small boat with Marines and the refugees ashore. they were in the area for only a few hours and again were well off shore. EVERYONE on that boat got hazard duty pay...

the base pay doesnt include living allowance does it? i could be mistaken but i dont believe it does... so base pay might look like crap but then you add 800-1500$ a month depending on location and it doesnt look quite as bad. the "base pay" is basicly beer money to most of the guys around here. if single they get food and shelter handed to them and if they have a family they get a larger living allowance.

(not saying living allowance shouldent be there but it should be... acknowledged that the base pay and actual pay are two very different numbers.)

right now hes in yorktown. but i know of people who work similer hours as an E7 at little creak (there are MANY more ive heard of but these are people i know personaly)

i dont disagree with people not being able to "make it" in the military/government work. they are to VERY different monsters and once you spend 10-15 years in one it is hard for a lot of people to change.

"fat trimmed off the top": people who are actualy good at what they do and are in the military should stay but alot of people get where they are by who they know and not how good they are at a job.

i also dident mean "cut off" the military but they need to restructure. FAR to much waste things getting lost or just stupid spending.

seeing the way government spends the money on a local, state and federal level... i dont think i would want my money going to a federaly controlled health care system. and i also want my social security to be privatized. but thats another story all together...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2007 at 2:50am
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/gipay.asp


I suspected that it would be fake.


It's not fake. That just said Cindy Williams isn't the Laverne and Shirley actress. She is a different person. The actress keeps getting hate mail, but says she didnt do it.


if you would have read at the bottom of the snopes page, you would have seen that the article is genuine, as is the response by the named airman.  the article was published, but the letter was not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2007 at 3:14am
Speaking for myself, my tour to Afghanistan will (over 19 months of predeployment training and time oveseas) net me 60-70k raw pay, not including foreign service premium, hardship allowance and risk allowance. Plus about half that raw pay will be tax free.

That's just Canada though...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2007 at 3:59am
Originally posted by merc merc wrote:

doesnt look quite as bad. the "base pay" is basicly beer money to most of the guys around here. if single they get food and shelter handed to them and if they have a family they get a larger living allowance.




But once you factor in car payment, insurance (which in Hawaii is ridiculous), phone bill (which is alot when your family is in NC), and food, what's left isn't near as high as that lump sum your looking at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:51am
^all of those things are called bills which most people have to pay...

no one has all of their money as free spending money... but your "base pay" is for luxuries. all of your necessities are provided or paid for. (shelter, food, clothing, ect.)

dont get me wrong i know you have bills we all do. but you get money for everything you need on top of your base pay.

saying "i have bills so im not really getting that money" is silly... your not going to be able to pocket all of your earnings most of us cant. so when its all said and done all you have to pay for is your car and calling home? they will feed you on base but i know its good to get out some times and eat someplace nice...

what kind of car did you get? not saying you but alot of the guys around hear spend most all of their $ on their car. its not bad when its the only bill you have...

im not saying you get to pocket all of your earnings but getting $13,000 and having to pay for everything is MUCH different than $13,000 and having everything provided...

(side note: check out USAA they were half the price that Geico is when my family looked into it. my sister is going to be saving over $1000 a year on her car insurance.)
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