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need a good .22 hornet or 6mm...

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cadet_sergeant View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 August 2004 at 7:56pm
so here's the scoup my friend and I are planning on going havolina (sp) (the harry pig thing) hunting and I need a .22 hornet or a 6mm rifle. I dont want to go with anything to big like a 30-06 or .308. now we havent put in yet and we cant for about a month but where both putting in 3 times ($5 every time you put in, and 18 if you get drown) the problem is i've never gone hunting so I dont have a gun (not that I havent been out with my friend on a hunt I just never shoot) I guess im a spotter. theres 4 hunts (2 hunts in 2 locations) so im sure we'll get drown for one of them. I only have $650 to buy a gun with all the rest is already takin care of. if you can help please do and please add a link, pic or some thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MetallicaESPa5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:09pm

...hmmm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Belt #2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:11pm

Well...

Forgive me for not giving a flying <bad word> about the .22 hornet or the 6 mm... I'm more of a .22 LR guy myself...

To tell you the truth, i know very little about the .22 hornet, or the 6 mm... as far as ballistics and firearm options go...

Exactially what kind of hunting are you doing here? Havolina? Is that where you trap a pig in a cage, then shoot it in the face with a .22? (one of my dad's friends is considering taking me for this)

What type of action do you want? Bolt action, lever action, slide action (pump), or semi automatic? Do you want it to have a magazine or do you want it to be a single shot? As far as magazines go, do you want detachable (like a "clip"... an external, detachable mag) or internal (like a tube, or something along those lines)? And what type of round do you want it to be chambered in? (.22 hornet, .22 LR, .223 (5.56mm))

I'm at a slight disadvantage here (beacuse I don't know squat about the .22 hornet), you'd be best off finding someone who hunts in this particulair style...

Oh, and what about that new browning .25 short action? Wierd looking, eh?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:16pm
I wish I had heard of those calibers. I haven't heard of the 6 or the .22 hornet.

So maybe you can teach me.

Through looking at the pics of the bullets, I can't get a very good grasp on how big it is. Like is it closer to a .22 LR or closer to a .22-250? Is it a .22-250?

I have shot the .22-250 and I can say I absolutely love it. And I know it is a popular cartridge for varmit hunting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 98ball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:18pm

how big is a havolina?

i would reccomend a .243

it is a relitively small bullet but can take a wide variety of game including deer

so you can use it after you go hunt havolina

 

       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cadet_sergeant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:29pm

ok bolt action, internal 4 round mag, or single shot bolt action. Do you think the .22 LR will do what i need it to? if so suggest a good .22 LR. my friend said the .22 LR doesnt have enough power behind it to stop a havolina. 

browning .25 short action- the gun is ok the ammo

 

Just for L()G4N:

The .22 Hornet's history goes back to about 1885 with the .22 WCF (Winchester Centerfire). It looked just like the later Hornet and with its black-powder load it drove a 45-grain bullet to about 1500 feet per second.

In the late 1920s, Col. Townsend Whelen and Capt. G. L. Wotkyns began experimenting with the cartridge in a M1922 Springfield. Since the first guns were made with M1922 rimfire barrels, the groove diameter was .223 inch. Later, other gunmakers picked up on this cartridge, and some used a .224 groove diameter for their guns. The SAAMI standard for Hornet barrels is a .222 groove diameter. Don't ask me why, but even the factory ammo uses .224 bullets today. (Our test barrel is .224.) This has led some bullet makers to produce both .223- and .224-diameter bullets for Hornet reloaders. The .223-diameter bullets are gradually going out of style.

Winchester started loading commercial Hornet ammo in 1930 and Remington soon joined in. You can still get Hornet factory ammo from both companies, so there is still a good supply of cases. The cases we have in our inventory show the Remington brass holding about 0.5 grain more water than the Winchester. What this difference means is that the same load in our Winchester cases produced a slightly greater velocity at a somewhat higher pressure. Other case lots can very easily reverse this difference. This provides still another example of why you should always start any load development at the published starting load level.

The Hornet uses the small rifle primer, so primers aren't a problem. If you have a good-shooting gun, you might try some of these loads with bench-rest primers.

Bullets for the Hornet need a little discussion. In theory, you can use any .22-caliber bullets (if you have a .224 barrel), but in practice the list is considerably shorter.

Many older Hornets were built with one-turn-in-16-inch twist barrels. They are marginal with 52-grain bullets, and generally unsatisfactory with anything heavier. Many Hornet barrels today use a 1-in-14 twist, which will usually handle somewhat heavier bullets. You really need to measure your barrel to know just what your gun has in terms of both diameter and twist.

Because the Hornet with 45-grain bullets produces only slightly over 2600 fps, you have to use bullets with light jackets if you expect to get good "blowup" performance on varmints. This does reduce the selection of suitable bullets, but there are still plenty of choices.

Powders Suitable For
the .22 Hornet
Accurate Arms #9, 1680, 2015BR
Alliant 2400,RL-7
Hodgdon H110, H4227, H4198
IMR 4227, 4198
Vihta Vuori N110
Winchester-Western 296

The .22 Hornet (with a 15-grains-of-water case volume) is never going to keep up with the .223 Remington or even the .222. If you feel you just have to have 3000 fps out of a 50-grain bullet, you better trade your Hornet for a .222 because you just can't get there with that little case. Still, out to 150 yards--some say 200--the Hornet is a great varmint cartridge.

Accuracy can be another problem with Hornets. There are all sorts of stories, and the general thrust seems to be that some Hornets shoot great and others are terrible. A while back I was shooting an Anschutz Exemplar in .22 Hornet. The gun shot--and still shoots--very well. At the same time, I shot the same ammo in a couple of rifles. Neither rifle shot well by varmint standards. When I tried to put some of the cases that had been fired in the rifles into the Exemplar, they wouldn't chamber. They were much too large. That caused me to do some serious thinking about chamber size.

It turns out that even the minimum SAAMI chamber specifications are a loose fit on maximum Hornet ammo. With a maximum chamber (but still to spec) and minimum ammo (again, still to spec), you have room to throw a cat in the chamber along with the cartridge. The guns fire, and safety isn't an issue within the specified limits, but it does make for poor accuracy. It turns out that all the guns that I could find that shot well had minimum (or smaller) chambers.

We decided to try a little experiment. Working with the JGS Reamer folks in Coos Bay, Oregon (514-267-4331), we ordered a new reamer that produces a chamber that's a snug fit on the ammo the way it is being produced by the factory today. Bo Clerke made up several barrels incorporating the "tight" chambers made with the tight reamer. The group shown was fired from the barrel in the machine rest at a 100-yard distance. The load was 11.0 grains of Acc. 1680 behind a Hornady 52-grain match bullet, the case was Remington and the primer was the CCI-BR4. JGS treats custom reamer designs as proprietary, but they have our permission to make the "tight" reamers for anyone who wants to try one. Their reamer drawing is identified as "22 H FORKER."

.22 Hornet Loading Data
Bullet Powder Primer Case Starting
Load (grs.)
Maximum
Load (grs.)
Velocity
(fps)
40-gr. Nosler Acc. 1680
Win. 296
CCI-400
Rem. 6.5
Rem.
Win.
12.0
9.0
14.0
10.8
2850
2780
40-gr. Sierra H110
Alli.2400
Fed. 200
CCI-BR4
Win.
Rem.
8.5
7.0
10.8
9.0
2820
2700
45-gr. Speer Win. 296
Acc. #9
CCI-400
Fed. 200
Rem.
Win.
8.0
7.0
10.2
9.0
2675
2510
45-gr. Barnes H110
H4227
Re, 6.5
CCI-400
Win.
Rem.
7.5
8.0
9.5
10.0
2525
2490
50-gr. Speer VV N-110
IMR-4198
Win. WSR
Rem. 6.5
Rem.
Win.
7.5
9.5
9.4
11.5
2460
2425
50-gr. Hornady H110
Alli. 2400
Fed. 200
Rem. 6.5
Win.
Rem.
7.0
6.0
9.0
8.0
2395
2220
50-gr. Nosler Acc. 1680
Imr-4227
CCI-400
Win. WSR
Rem.
Win.
9.5
7.0
11.5
9.0
2410
2370
52-gr. Hornady Acc. 1680
VV N-110
CCI-BR4
CCI-400
Rem.
Win.
9.5
6.0
11.5
8.0
2375
2280
52-gr. Sierra Acc.1680
H4227
Rem. 7.5
Fed. 200
Rem.
Win.
9.5
7.0
11.5
9.0
2400
2385

Compared with some of the larger cases, the powder selection for the Hornet is a little limited. Still there are enough suitable numbers. The worst problem you run into is that it doesn't take a big change in powder burning rate to go from a powder that gets to maximum pressure before the case is full to one that fills the case before you can get to any decent pressure (and velocity).

For the record, the SAAMI maximum pressure is listed as 43,000 c.u.p. Only the copper crusher pressure is defined. I suppose that's because no one wanted to set up the old Hornet for transducer pressures. Using the denser spherical or rolled ball powders allows you to fit just a little more powder (by weight) into the case. The powders with fine granulation generally meter and pour better for these small charges than the long-grain tubular numbers. The Hornet is far from the easiest cartridge to reload for good performance.

Because the Hornet case is so small, you need to make your powder charge changes in very small increments as you build up loads. An increase of 0.5 grain is sometimes too much. A 0.25- or 0.3-grain increase is probably enough. After all, there's only about a 2.0-grain margin between the starting and the maximum loads.

The loads shown were developed in a rifle-length (24-inch) barrel. These same loads are also suitable for the single-shot pistols like the XP-100 and the Contenders. You can expect to lose as much as 300 to 400 fps when dropping down to a 12-inch barrel length. While the velocity will be reduced in the shorter barrels, you shouldn't allow yourself to get trapped into thinking you have to use faster powder in the shorter barrels. After all, the peak pressure--the ultimate limiting factor for loading--is reached after only about an inch or two of bullet travel. The same load develops the same peak pressure regardless of barrel length (at least until you get down to two inches or so).

The Hornet cartridge makes a great varmint number at modest ranges. In the right barrel, it can be as accurate as any other .22 centerfire.

 

 

Q. What caliber do you recommend for my firearm for different types of hunting?
A. The following is a chart showing Browning caliber suggestions:
Browning Caliber Suggestions

Caliber Weight in Grams Bulet Style Fox, Chuck, Coyote, Other Varmints Antelope, Mountain Sheep, Mountain Goat Deer, Black Bear, Mountain Lion Moose, Elk, Caribou Grizzly Bear, Kodiak Bear Rhino, Elephant, Cape Buffalo
22 Hornet 45 Soft Point            
22 Hornet 46 Hollow Point            
222 Rem. 50 Spitzer            
22-250 50 Spitzer            
223 53 Hollow Point            
223 55 Pointed Soft Point            
223 64 Power Point            
243 Win. 80 Spitzer            
243 Win. 100 Semi-
Spitzer
           
6mm Rem. 80 Spitzer            
6mm Rem. 100 Semi- Spitzer            
25-06 Rem. 87 Spitzer            
25-06 Rem. 120 Spitzer            
7mm-08 140 Power Point            
270 Win. 130 Spitzer            
270 Win. 150 Semi- Spitzer            
7mm Rem. Mag. 150 Spitzer            
7mm Rem. Mag. 175 Semi- Spitzer            
30 Carbine 110 Round Nose            
30-30 Win. 150 Flat Nose            
30-30 Win. 170 Flat Nose            
30-06 Sprg. 125 Spitzer            
30-06 Sprg. 150 Spitzer            
30-06 Sprg. 180 Round Nose            
30-06 Sprg. 180 Semi- Spitzer            
30-06 Sprg. 220 Round Nose            
300 Win. Mag. 150 Spitzer            
300 Win. Mag. 180 Spitzer            
300 Win. Mag. 220 Round Nose            
300 Savage 168 Spitzer            
303 British 180 Semi- Spitzer            
308 Win. 125 Spitzer            
308 Win. 150 Spitzer            
308 Win. 180 Semi- Spitzer            
338 Win. Mag. 200 Spitzer            
338 Win. Mag. 250 Semi- Spitzer            
338 Win. Mag. 300 Round Nose            
358 Win. 200 Round Nose            
358 Win. 250 Round Nose            
35 Rem. 200 Round Nose            
375 H&H Mag. 270 Semi- Spitzer            
375 H&H Mag. 300 Full Metal Jacket            
44 Rem. Mag. 240 Semi- Jacket Hard Point            
45-70 Govt. 405 Flat Nose            
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Edited by cadet_sergeant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:46pm
Scrap the .22 hornet. Go with a .243. They don't kick too much and might be OK for deer at close range(I'd prefer something larger). If you're really, really recoil shy, get a .223. It has a lot more nut than a .22 hornet and more easily available ammo, plus you can use surplus ammo for practice. I've never hunted javolina, but it's a wild pig, and pigs are nasty. I'd want something bigger than a .223 anyways. If you go with a .223 or .243, look at Savage bolt guns. They're high quality, inexpensive, and usually very accurate. Another option is a lever action .30-30 which won't kick too much, should be lightweight, and very versitle. But lever guns aren't know for precision accuracy, so it can double as a deer rifle, but not as a long range varmit rifle like a .223 or .243. However, if I were going to hunt an animal like that, I'd get a Savage in .308 Win. that I could use for anything. As for optics, get a GOOD scope. Don't go cheap on a scope, ever. If you're like me and not partial to scopes, get a William's apreture(peep) sight. And practice, practice, practice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cadet_sergeant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:55pm

whats the diffrence bettween 6mm and .243? so i should go with a .243 because it'll be gr8 for the javolina and deer at close range? hmmm. one problem with that no deer only Elk, we must have ran into 30 or so last time i was up there, dont worry not going to be hunting Elk soon and my friend has a gun i can use if we put in (we missed put in this year because the server was down).  i knew you'd come up with some good info.

THIS?

http://www.internetguncatalog.com/pics/78338.jpg



Edited by cadet_sergeant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 9:10pm
Thanks a lot Cadet!

From what I can gather it is SIMILAR to the .22-250 but different none the less.

I am sorry I can't help you at all.
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More power to deflector shields, Scotty!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cadet_sergeant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

Thanks a lot Cadet!

From what I can gather it is SIMILAR to the .22-250 but different none the less.

I am sorry I can't help you at all.
its fine i think your the only person i've helped lol feel lucky!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 10:10pm
i looked up havolina to see what they are...looks like a small pig if its the same thing?

i couldent tell the size realy because the pics dident have anything i could reconize in it.

i know my buddy used to own a .222 for chucks but sold that and now he uses a .17 bolt action. the .17 is a .22mag shell crimped with a .17 bullet. i dont know much about guns but he hit a full 20oz soda at about 100 yds and it left a 3"x1" hole in the back side...almost split it in 2...

.22 mag is another round he shoots at chucks...

looking at the info that you posted the .22 hornet looks like a bad choice...

depending on the range you could consider a 16 or 20 guage shot gun.

if its longer range you might want to pick up a .222 or .223

i think this is the gun my buddy got.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 10:17pm
man up alittle bit and take a 30-06
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More power to deflector shields, Scotty!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cadet_sergeant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 8:15am
im goin to wait for rednekk to post back, im not getting a 30-06 not because i cant handle it but because i dont need something that strong.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roadrunner0535 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 8:22am
go 4 a bb gun...my friend and his dad both went out with 1 and they killed a baby bear(350lbs) with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevin Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 8:40am
I would recommend a Marlin 30-30

It's an old worn out cartridge, that works. It would do well for Havalina, and would take you up to other game like Deer.

It's not expensive,

It's rugged, it will survive kicking around in the swamp looking for pigs.

I just bought the 450 Marlin for Elk. It's very nice for the price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 9:06am
Originally posted by roadrunner0535 roadrunner0535 wrote:

go 4 a bb gun...my friend and his dad both went out with 1 and they killed a baby bear(350lbs) with it


What? Did I read that right? I think I did...and no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WUNgUN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 10:18am
I didn't read it all forgive me, but is there a reason you just don't get a Ruger 10/22? They are a dime a dozen and there are upgrades out the kazoo. If the "boar" is that crazy, I would sidearm a .38 or .45 just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote †Sniper† Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 11:06am
Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

Originally posted by roadrunner0535 roadrunner0535 wrote:

go 4 a bb gun...my friend and his dad both went out with 1 and they killed a baby bear(350lbs) with it


What? Did I read that right? I think I did...and no.


Did you like....throw a grenade at the bear and then finish it off with the BB gun???

i mean seriously...
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^I think the BS meter applies here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote munky! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2004 at 12:04pm
....pff americains. that sounded amusing

im going hunting in a month and need a gun.
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