Kerry Or Bush??

Hades wrote: ScarFace22 wrote: If you were in college you probably wouldn't last a month before you failed out. I for the most part have the exact same values and moral convictions as Enos and I have been in more semsters of college then you have teeth in your mouth. /me hands ball to you to for you to drop.

Exactly. Anyways, I think Enos would do very well at college, especially in a liberal one like I attended. I also enjoy great personal freedom without having organized religion tell me that I can't use contraception and that I have to comdem homosexuals, and that I can't eat fish on Fridays.

Simple.  Every sperm is sacred.  Masturbation is a sin because it is not procreative.  Therefore, all non-procreative sex is a sin.  Therefore, having sex with a condom is a sin.

Been standard RC doctrine for decades/centuries.

Clark Kent wrote: Simple. Every sperm is sacred. Masturbation is a sin because it is not procreative. Therefore, all non-procreative sex is a sin. Therefore, having sex with a condom is a sin. Been standard RC doctrine for decades/centuries.

Just because the Catholic Church says it's so doesn't make it so.

Masturbation in and of itself isn't mentioned as a sin in the Bible, but it's usually looked down on because it encourages the already hotly debated lu**edited**l thoughts.

I've never heard any part of the Bible that says every sperm is sacred. Non-procreative sex is specifically looked down on in one case (can't remember where, somebody in the Old Testament who was told to have a child and deliberately... well... missed).

Clark Kent wrote: It goes back to Onan. Spilling his seed upon the ground, etc.

Thank you. That's what I was referring to. As I read the passage, Onan's sin was not in refusing to have a child, but in failing to fulfill his duty to have children for his brother-in-law (that's part of the old Jewish law).

Of course, I'm not God. But the NLT says that "the LORD considered it a wicked thing for Onan to deny a child to his dead brother" (Genesis 38:10).That's the only one that clarifies to that extent, and it may be wrong. I don't know.

I do know that the Bible doesn't specifically state that masturbation is sin, and it also doesn't state that sex without the purpose of procreation is wrong (at least to my knowledge).

Edited by AdmiralSenn

AdmiralSenn wrote:   As I read the passage, Onan's sin was not in refusing to have a child, but in failing to fulfill his duty to have children for his brother-in-law (that's part of the old Jewish law).

That is the interpretation favored by many American protestant groups, but the (very old) RC church has always head that it prohibits masturbation and contraceptives.

Well, they're also the group that insists that you can be forgiven for your sins without Jesus (it's possible to be a perfect Catholic and totally ignore Jesus).

All this by a man that they call Father .........better stop there or I'll be RC bashing too